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Kiana Kaslana Vs Irontomb (Honkai: Star Rail Vs Honkai Impact 3rd)

CastoriceTheFifth

CastoriceTheFifth

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Kiana Kaslana Vs Irontomb

Herrscher Of Finality Kiana
Attack Potency: Hyperverse Level
Durability: Hyperverse Level
Lifting Strength: Immeasurable

Complete Irontomb
Attack Potency: Hyperverse Level
Durability: Hyperverse Level
Lifting Strength: Universal

Fight takes place in Amphoreus

FrSZNnAWwAEeHqZ.jpg

f37da16b4aa789e7e14e069bd06912e3_1789179852650675593.png


Fight OST:


Kiana:

Irontomb: @Voidnether
 
Last edited:
Trying to explain Irontomb's EE is lengthy, I'll probably wait for anyone to just reply on this thread with their reasonings first before I give out mine
 
Layered time-stop that ignores Aca4 makes Irontomb unable to do anything.
Click to expand...
Acausality (Type 4; Is "Imaginary" in nature, which means that conventional time, space, and physical laws are meaningless. Operates within the confines of the Imaginary Tree, which has a whole different meanings of time, space, causality and laws)
Click to expand...
She also has layered resistance to Concept Type 1 and Information Type 2.
Enhanced Resistance to:

Click to expand...
Irontomb EE is useless.
Existence Erasure (1 Layer〈Information【Type 2】& Conceptual【Type 1】〉; Irontomb erased life and everything in the UniverseImaginary Tree, reducing them into mere bits and then erased completely from existence as lifeforms exist in the form of data, the universe was shown to be completely empty after the destruction in which Nous recalculated the Universe after thirteen heartbeats, being capable of erasing even the likes of Trailblazer and all Emanators. A person's soul is regarded as their mind and is composed of fundamental information, the latter that shapes reality and life as a line of code, being conceptual in nature)
Click to expand...
[Kiana FRA🚂💨]
 
Lynieryz said:
Layered time-stop that ignores Aca4 makes Irontomb unable to do anything.


She also has layered resistance to Concept Type 1 and Information Type 2.

Irontomb EE is useless.

[Kiana FRA🚂💨]
Click to expand...
Complete Irontomb affects all things related to Erudition at the Imaginary level (Nous), so this version of Irontomb should passively be causing Kiana to become lobotomized at the fundamental level. And if she can’t use her abilities (because she has the intellect of a worm), then she’ll get one shot

Also the very fact that Honkai is Destruction energy itself is pretty bad because that can never rival an Emanator of Destruction like Irontomb who at this point has so much Path Energy that he’s basically just a few steps below Nanook

Voting Irontomb rn then
 
i wanted to yap how kiana has 6 layers of honkai hax layers (should be 7 and no dont use that meme, due to cof manipulating all HE phenomena and is above every herrscher finality included) and say how she would win the matchup because irontomb currently lacks HE in abilities
Then i also noticed kiana lacks immortality type 9 so honestly because how ****** hi3 verse is and how irrepairable damage was done after that telomera thread id just not vote any hi3 matchup because what the ****
No honkai layer blog posted
Kiana got immo 9 snatched outta nowhere
She has same layers as fraud of end of previous era (base kevin victim)
so if the 6 layers shit is true ill vote kiana for that but doesnt matter since when irontomb gets that hes gonna win anyway
 
PedjaTarzan said:
i wanted to yap how kiana has 6 layers of honkai hax layers (should be 7 and no dont use that meme, due to cof manipulating all HE phenomena and is above every herrscher finality included) and say how she would win the matchup because irontomb currently lacks HE in abilities
Then i also noticed kiana lacks immortality type 9 so honestly because how ****** hi3 verse is and how irrepairable damage was done after that telomera thread id just not vote any hi3 matchup because what the ****
No honkai layer blog posted
Kiana got immo 9 snatched outta nowhere
She has same layers as fraud of end of previous era (base kevin victim)
so if the 6 layers shit is true ill vote kiana for that but doesnt matter since when irontomb gets that hes gonna win anyway
Click to expand...
How do layers matter here lol. All of them would be underpinned by the underlying Imaginary Energy, which is what Irontomb affects directly. So he would scale beyond even 1000 layers of Immortality at that because he’s destroying “what fundamentally allows Kiana to remain an intelligent being”. It’s literally brainrot inducement
 
Super_Nova said:
How do layers matter here lol. All of them would be underpinned by the underlying Imaginary Energy, which is what Irontomb affects directly. So he would scale beyond even 1000 layers of Immortality at that because he’s destroying “what fundamentally allows Kiana to remain an intelligent being”. It’s literally brainrot inducement
Click to expand...
Uh, ya’ll didn’t forget to index this hax, right?
 
Super_Nova said:
How do layers matter here lol. All of them would be underpinned by the underlying Imaginary Energy, which is what Irontomb affects directly. So he would scale beyond even 1000 layers of Immortality at that because he’s destroying “what fundamentally allows Kiana to remain an intelligent being”. It’s literally brainrot inducement
Click to expand...
Because CoF is imaginary singularity and their existence is within confines of imaginary space which irontomb even when destroying imaginary tree didnt affect otherwise we would not have us and cyrene inside path space and every other aeon including nous would eventually be no diffed, and as we know zandar plan was to just nuke erudition and make new universe freed from shackles of erudition
ts why i brought up cof shit because irontomb cannot kill cof directly
 
PedjaTarzan said:
Because CoF is imaginary singularity and their existence is within confines of imaginary space which irontomb even when destroying imaginary tree didnt affect otherwise we would not have us and cyrene inside path space and every other aeon including nous would eventually be no diffed, and as we know zandar plan was to just nuke erudition and make new universe freed from shackles of erudition
ts why i brought up cof shit because irontomb cannot kill cof directly
Click to expand...
That makes more sense yea. I don’t think Irontomb has a wincon then
 
Lynieryz said:
Layered time-stop that ignores Aca4 makes Irontomb unable to do anything.


She also has layered resistance to Concept Type 1 and Information Type 2.

Irontomb EE is useless.

[Kiana FRA🚂💨]
Click to expand...
The problem is that Finality's Time Manipulation here is inherent with causality, Completed Irontomb was only defeated by Cyrene whose existence is a causality that transcends time, because by transcending time — It doesn't even matter if all the fundamental building block of realities are destroyed within the physical plane of the Imaginary Tree

Irontomb's EE has 1 Layer on top of that, regarding Honkai Energy though. It's like a really weird mechanism because Irontomb being able to destroy the fundamental aspects of reality itself would mean Irontomb is capable of bypassing it down to the Immunity level and Irontomb creating those aspects back would mean he'd negate literally anyone's Immunity that lacks said aspect, I feel like unless Finality is able to do the same thing the Path of Remembrance does against Irontomb, that's really the only way to win this to be honest

That being said, Irontomb's destruction is only within the physical plane of the Imaginary Tree where Aeons have to descend on it first. Simply put, Aeons have their own Path Spaces which is a metaphysical realm like the Eden of Blessed Insight, heck the reason Cyrene and Trailblazer even survived was because of the failsafe

Whether this affects Imaginary Space as a whole, I am unsure because Path Space is categorized within Imaginary Space and I don't really know about Eden of Blessed Insight being one or not, but it should be since it's the place where Fuli resides

That being said, the Narrator itself is unsure whether Fuli resides in there or not, this is later revealed with the nature of the Path of Remembrance so you have that practically that Fuli isn't born yet and its only born in the end of time that's why the crystal is like that
 
Since I used to argue about Finality back then, the problem is that like Finality is unaffected by time as in being independent by the concept that they governed as the sub-product (Time & Causality, since causality is inherently linked with time in HI3), not transcending them in the way like Cyrene does where she's able to just survive an attack that destroyed all the fundamental aspects within the physical plane lol

You also could argue Irontomb destroying the entirety of the physical plane would mean he destroyed all the manifestations of the Aeons in said physical plane, and then recreating them back (What Lygus explained in 3.5)
 
Voidnether said:
Since I used to argue about Finality back then, the problem is that like Finality is unaffected by time as in being independent by the concept that they governed as the sub-product (Time & Causality, since causality is inherently linked with time in HI3), not transcending them in the way like Cyrene does where she's able to just survive an attack that destroyed all the fundamental aspects within the physical plane lol
Click to expand...
It’s causality that transcends time because time works differently for Imaginary/Path Space than Real Space
 
Super_Nova said:
It’s causality that transcends time because time works differently for Imaginary/Path Space than Real Space
Click to expand...
Well, that'd mean the fundamental aspects within Imaginary Space are still existent and Cyrene reversed said destruction with herself as the causality, because it should be obvious enough that causality is nonexistent after the destruction by Irontomb in the physical plane

Time works non-linearly in Imaginary Space I'm pretty sure, so it's not really a problem
 
PedjaTarzan said:
Because CoF is imaginary singularity and their existence is within confines of imaginary space which irontomb even when destroying imaginary tree didnt affect otherwise we would not have us and cyrene inside path space and every other aeon including nous would eventually be no diffed, and as we know zandar plan was to just nuke erudition and make new universe freed from shackles of erudition
ts why i brought up cof shit because irontomb cannot kill cof directly
Click to expand...
Acausality (Type 4) so goated it's the counter against Irontomb, yeah Kiana FRA. That Acausality literally makes her equivalent to the Aeons, even if Kiana's scaling is the equivalent of Completed Irontomb
 
Voidnether said:
Acausality (Type 4) so goated it's the counter against Irontomb, yeah Kiana FRA. That Acausality literally makes her equivalent to the Aeons, even if Kiana's scaling is the equivalent of Completed Irontomb
Click to expand...
Yeah, but it is such as shame that Acausality Type 4 is treated such shitty way by the Wiki
 
So what will Kiana do to Irontomb anyways
And speaking about it, what are Irontomb wincons exactly?
Though, that doesn't make Kiana aeon level exactly but okay...
 
Yanina92 said:
So what will Kiana do to Irontomb anyways
And speaking about it, what are Irontomb wincons exactly?
Though, that doesn't make Kiana aeon level exactly but okay...
Click to expand...
Irontomb is programmed to only attack Erudition Path Energy and since Kiana doesn’t exist in Real Space, she’ll largely be unaffected. Maybe Irontomb can alter it’s extrapolations towards the Cocoon but Kiana might have time to do sum stuff atp
 
Voidnether said:
The problem is that Finality's Time Manipulation here is inherent with causality, Completed Irontomb was only defeated by Cyrene whose existence is a causality that transcends time, because by transcending time — It doesn't even matter if all the fundamental building block of realities are destroyed within the physical plane of the Imaginary Tree

Irontomb's EE has 1 Layer on top of that, regarding Honkai Energy though. It's like a really weird mechanism because Irontomb being able to destroy the fundamental aspects of reality itself would mean Irontomb is capable of bypassing it down to the Immunity level and Irontomb creating those aspects back would mean he'd negate literally anyone's Immunity that lacks said aspect, I feel like unless Finality is able to do the same thing the Path of Remembrance does against Irontomb, that's really the only way to win this to be honest

That being said, Irontomb's destruction is only within the physical plane of the Imaginary Tree where Aeons have to descend on it first. Simply put, Aeons have their own Path Spaces which is a metaphysical realm like the Eden of Blessed Insight, heck the reason Cyrene and Trailblazer even survived was because of the failsafe

Whether this affects Imaginary Space as a whole, I am unsure because Path Space is categorized within Imaginary Space and I don't really know about Eden of Blessed Insight being one or not, but it should be since it's the place where Fuli resides

That being said, the Narrator itself is unsure whether Fuli resides in there or not, this is later revealed with the nature of the Path of Remembrance so you have that practically that Fuli isn't born yet and its only born in the end of time that's why the crystal is like that
Click to expand...
Irontomb FRA
 
PedjaTarzan said:
Because CoF is imaginary singularity and their existence is within confines of imaginary space which irontomb even when destroying imaginary tree didnt affect otherwise we would not have us and cyrene inside path space and every other aeon including nous would eventually be no diffed, and as we know zandar plan was to just nuke erudition and make new universe freed from shackles of erudition
ts why i brought up cof shit because irontomb cannot kill cof directly
Click to expand...
This makes sense, voting moon tuna.
 
CastoriceTheFifth said:
Kiana Kaslana Vs Irontomb

Cocoon Of Finality Kiana
Attack Potency: Hyperverse Level
Durability: Hyperverse Level
Lifting Strength: Immeasurable

Complete Irontomb
Attack Potency: Hyperverse Level
Durability: Hyperverse Level
Lifting Strength: Universal

Fight takes place in Amphoreus

FrSZNnAWwAEeHqZ.jpg

f37da16b4aa789e7e14e069bd06912e3_1789179852650675593.png


Fight OST:
Click to expand...

For me, Kiana wins (I'm not going to talk about the scales, which I think are flawed).

Iron Tomb's objective is to kill and absorb Nous (that's a rough summary), except that in the video about the multiple endings of Hoyoverse, the best ending for Iron Tomb is the one where he absorbs the Great Herta, who is an emanator, so even in his best ending, he doesn't reach Nous.

Many believe this is enough to defeat Kiana because of the argument made by the person from the Garden of Remembrance.
She speaks of Kiana's energy fluctuations and says they are emanator-level. However, at that moment, Kiana was asleep and therefore in a dream, and her power was scattered, far from complete. Even so, simple power fluctuations were emanator-level, meaning Kiana is much stronger than emanators.

Next, Kiana Herrscher's ultimate power is equal to the cocoon, even though she doesn't yet fully control it.

It's also stated that the Paths are amalgams of imaginary energy, and Kiana manipulates all of this imaginary energy, making her superior to the Paths themselves.
There's also the argument about the end of the universe in Iron Tomb. In the Chinese version, the pinyin used is for galaxy, not universe. Even in the game, we see that it doesn't destroy but extinguishes the stars of a single galaxy. Therefore, the entire story takes place in the same galaxy, meaning Iron Tomb extinguished several galaxies, which doesn't change much regarding the feat; they are still galaxies. Then there's the universe. According to Zandar, the universe resembles a tree, so we might think it's the imaginary tree. However, what he says in the theory refers to the workings of bubble worlds, so it's definitely not the imaginary tree, far from level 12D.

Regarding the Iron Tomb, the last chapter of the second part of Hi3 reveals that certain parts of the SoQ have an advantage over the Iron Tomb, and vice versa, meaning the two structures are relative. Therefore, the SoQ is not dimension 11 but 12. Furthermore, I remind you that Durandal can use the SoQ as an energy source; he doesn't use it directly. Thus, Durandal is equal to, or even superior to, the Iron Tomb, and Kiana defeats it.

Moreover, Kiana is no longer inside the Iron Tomb; its destruction therefore does not affect her, and she can consequently destroy it as well.

Other arguments are possible, but these are sufficient to assert that Kiana is superior to the Iron Tomb.

Therefore, I vote for Kiana.
 
Last edited:
MotherStar said:
For me, Kiana wins (I'm not going to talk about the scales, which I think are flawed).

Iron Tomb's objective is to kill and absorb Us (that's a rough summary), except that in the video about the multiple endings of Hoyoverse, the best ending for Iron Tomb is the one where he absorbs the Great Herta, who is an emanator, so even in his best ending, he doesn't reach Us.

Many believe this is enough to defeat Kiana because of the argument made by the person from the Garden of Remembrance.
She speaks of Kiana's energy fluctuations and says they are emanator-level. However, at that moment, Kiana was asleep and therefore in a dream, and her power was scattered, far from complete. Even so, simple power fluctuations were emanator-level, meaning Kiana is much stronger than emanators.

Next, Kiana Herrscher's ultimate power is equal to the cocoon, even though she doesn't yet fully control it.

It's also stated that the Paths are amalgams of imaginary energy, and Kiana manipulates all of this imaginary energy, making her superior to the Paths themselves.
There's also the argument about the end of the universe in Iron Tomb. In the Chinese version, the pinyin used is for galaxy, not universe. Even in the game, we see that it doesn't destroy but extinguishes the stars of a single galaxy. Therefore, the entire story takes place in the same galaxy, meaning Iron Tomb extinguished several galaxies, which doesn't change much regarding the feat; they are still galaxies. Then there's the universe. According to Zandar, the universe resembles a tree, so we might think it's the imaginary tree. However, what he says in the theory refers to the workings of bubble worlds, so it's definitely not the imaginary tree, far from level 12D.

Regarding the Iron Tomb, the last chapter of the second part of Hi3 reveals that certain parts of the SoQ have an advantage over the Iron Tomb, and vice versa, meaning the two structures are relative. Therefore, the SoQ is not dimension 11 but 12. Furthermore, I remind you that Durandal can use the SoQ as an energy source; he doesn't use it directly. Thus, Durandal is equal to, or even superior to, the Iron Tomb, and Kiana defeats it.

Moreover, Kiana is no longer inside the Iron Tomb; its destruction therefore does not affect her, and she can consequently destroy it as well.

Other arguments are possible, but these are sufficient to assert that Kiana is superior to the Iron Tomb.

Therefore, I vote for Kiana.
Click to expand...
No blue links therefore your argument is invalid and unusable and kianatomb FRA
 
Voidnether said:
No blue links therefore your argument is invalid and unusable and kianatomb FRA
Click to expand...
I was too lazy to introduce the panels and overall my panels are in French so I don't know if they're acceptable, but overall my arguments are easily verifiable even on the character profiles (apart from the argument about SoQ = IT because of the date of the last chapter of hi3 released).
 
MotherStar said:
I was too lazy to introduce the panels and overall my panels are in French so I don't know if they're acceptable, but overall my arguments are easily verifiable even on the character profiles (apart from the argument about SoQ = IT because of the date of the last chapter of hi3 released).
Click to expand...
It's mainly just this one though
There's also the argument about the end of the universe in Iron Tomb. In the Chinese version, the pinyin used is for galaxy, not universe. Even in the game, we see that it doesn't destroy but extinguishes the stars of a single galaxy. Therefore, the entire story takes place in the same galaxy, meaning Iron Tomb extinguished several galaxies, which doesn't change much regarding the feat; they are still galaxies. Then there's the universe. According to Zandar, the universe resembles a tree, so we might think it's the imaginary tree. However, what he says in the theory refers to the workings of bubble worlds, so it's definitely not the imaginary tree, far from level 12D.
Click to expand...
In the same Imaginary Tree theory according to Zandar, he refered the Tree as a "galaxy" that contains the leaves which are the star systems, obviously the terminology galaxy/star systems aren't used figuratively as in a literal sense as it wouldn't make sense for IT to be a galaxy and yet contain infinite amount of stars within

So like, either interpretation whether the IT is an universe (by literally everyone) or a galaxy (by Zandar) — Irontomb is able to destroy the entirety of the physical plane of the Imaginary Tree in the first place, what stops Irontomb rn from killing Kiana is because Kiana is on an imaginary state and Irontomb just doesn't have NPI to such things (hence why Cyrene survived)
 
Oh brother we're actually downplaying completed Irontomb to baseline 3-C

Anyways should I change this to Herrscher of Finality Kiana instead so Irontomb has a win con
 
“「劇本」尾聲,黑洞與白洞互相吞噬,撕裂銀河 .”

“銀河” usually means “Milky way or Galaxy” but in context of Star rail and GGZ? It refers to the Universe. If you interact with Welt on the express, and ask “About the Galaxy” he uses this exact term “銀河” in CN to refer the Universe and the Aeons within it, this terminology is incredibly consistent when referring to the universe within both games, if you are to deny it being in reference to the Universe? You’d also have to concede that the Aeons are tethered to a singular Galaxy which for obvious reasons is wrong.
Click to expand...
3-C or 1-B tree pick your poison
 
Voidnether said:
It's mainly just this one though

In the same Imaginary Tree theory according to Zandar, he refered the Tree as a "galaxy" that contains the leaves which are the star systems, obviously the terminology galaxy/star systems aren't used figuratively as in a literal sense as it wouldn't make sense for IT to be a galaxy and yet contain infinite amount of stars within

So like, either interpretation whether the IT is an universe (by literally everyone) or a galaxy (by Zandar) — Irontomb is able to destroy the entirety of the physical plane of the Imaginary Tree in the first place, what stops Irontomb rn from killing Kiana is because Kiana is on an imaginary state and Irontomb just doesn't have NPI to such things (hence why Cyrene survived)
Click to expand...
I understand your arguments and why you think that, unfortunately. While Zandar is right on some points, his theory doesn't discuss the IT itself, but rather the bubble worlds. His explanation of how the bubble worlds work is unfortunately confusing because it starts with the principle of a tree structure, but his explanation of how they work is similar to that of the bubble worlds explained in Hi3. So, even if it really is the universe that Iron Tomb extinguished (yes, not destroyed, but extinguished), the AP is located between L2-C and 2-A, unfortunately. Then there's also the argument about the emanator and the video on multiple endings that come into play.

Overall, I understand the arguments, but the game's explanations are confusing, and if you look closely, you can see the errors.

In fact, Iron Tomb cannot reach Kiana even without her existing outside the IT.
 
MotherStar said:
I understand your arguments and why you think that, unfortunately. While Zandar is right on some points, his theory doesn't discuss the IT itself, but rather the bubble worlds. His explanation of how the bubble worlds work is unfortunately confusing because it starts with the principle of a tree structure, but his explanation of how they work is similar to that of the bubble worlds explained in Hi3. So, even if it really is the universe that Iron Tomb extinguished (yes, not destroyed, but extinguished), the AP is located between L2-C and 2-A, unfortunately. Then there's also the argument about the emanator and the video on multiple endings that come into play.

Overall, I understand the arguments, but the game's explanations are confusing, and if you look closely, you can see the errors.

In fact, Iron Tomb cannot reach Kiana even without her existing outside the IT.
Click to expand...
That'd mean Sea of Quanta is acknowledged for the second time in HSR other than the Quantum Ripples description, bubble worlds and leaf worlds operate differently I'm sure even if they're both MWI. I don't think it'd be Low 2-C or 2-A either, 1-B was accepted through Otto who transcended reality (Sea of Quanta) and became part of the Imaginary Tree. This is the physical plane of the Imaginary Tree by the way, not the metaphysical one like Path Spaces where the Aeons are and so on

Kiana existing outside IT or not, it's because Kiana is an Imaginary self that resides in the Imaginary Spaces, Imaginary Space are unaffected by Irontomb's destruction because again, the scope is only limited to the physical plane of the Imaginary Tree if anything

But yeah, I think the physical plane is obviously 1-B
 
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