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(Canon Star Wars) "Reforms, we need, yes? Hmm" (Major stats update + Yoda complete revamp)

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Nonynho

Nonynho

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(Powered by @Hagane_no_Saiyajin and @Phsccarvalho, without them, this would not be possible at all)​


Greetings!

With the course of this last month, we reached the conclusion of a few calculations and researches and I proudly present 4 big topics that will affect a huge bunch of the verse

1: High 6-A 7-B+ AP (and some more)​

This calc got approved, and a lot of people are affected by it, since we see some of the most impressive Jedi and Sith  ever in current times, what our canon is more focused at, most of the time, when speaking about Force-wielders and their journeys across the galaxy.

{Friendly reminder that profiles may not be 100% up to date after this, possibly needing their own individual attention later}
  • Ahsoka Tano (Despite the first key indexing her time as a padawan, it also speaks about fighting Asajj Ventress and Grievous, who can contend with Jedi Masters and much more. Not only that, but she grows on her second and third keys to be possibly the strongest Jedi that ever lived)
  • Anakin Skywalker (Even in his CW key, he already had a midichlorian count greater than Yoda, already enough to put him as a great Force wielder, but he is already capable to train Ahsoka with skills enough to survive the war, thing that many masters weren't capable. By the point of RotS he was able to end Count Dooku, one of the most impressive Force wielders of the previous generation)
  • Asajj Ventress (Able to contend with Dooku and Yoda for a brief period, despite being no match for them it already makes evident being higher than who performed the feat justifying the rate)
  • Bendu (wow who are you, mate? Has easily dealt with many imperial ships with Force Lightning, and was stated by Kanan to be unlike what he ever saw)
  • Cal Kestis (Able to survive a Post-Mustafar Vader, despite being no match for him it already makes evident being higher than who performed the feat justifying the rate)
  • Cere Junda (Able to contend a Post-Mustafar Vader for a brief period, despite being no match for him it already makes evident being higher than who performed the feat justifying the rate)
  • Count Dooku (Former-padawan to Yoda, he was one of the greatest Force-wielders of his generation, being able to easily defeat CWs Obi-Wan and Anakin and superior to Grievous, who easily dealt with many Jedi masters)
  • Darth Sidious (In his Endor key, he is superior in Force-wielding to Yoda and vastly superior to RotS Anakin and only a Post-Rebels Ahsoka, one of the greatest Force wielders that ever lived, was stated to contend with him. Post-Endor, he is vastly superior and would only be barred by a collective effort from various Force Spirits buffing and helping Rey, a feat never done before or since, to our knowledge)
  • Darth Maul (Could contend with various great Force-wielders throught his life, Obi-Wan and Ahsoka Tano mainly, more than once, being regarded by Sidious as a superb duelist and a loss greater than Dooku, in some regards to his plan)
  • Darth Vader (Great in basically everything that he proposes, the Sith Lord is definetely one of the most powerful Force-wielders that ever lived, being barred only by Obi-Wan and Sidious, his masters, in his Post-Mustafar key, and only Sidious stood superior to him in his Post-Rebels key while )
  • Ezra Bridger (Together with his master has moved an asteroid and would later be able to survive a meeting with a Rebels Vader)
  • Grand Inquisitor (Stronger than Kanan, Ezra and Ventress)
  • Kanan Jarrus (Together with his padawan has moved an asteroid and would later be able to survive a meeting with a Rebels Vader)
  • Ki-Adi Mundi, Kit Fisto, Luminara Unduli, Plo Koon, Pong Krell, Quinlan Vos and Shaak Ti (Regarded as powerful Jedi, they all scale to one another and somewhat scale to Mace Windu, and while CW-ish Obi-Wan deemed himself unworthy of being a council member while comparing himself to them, they also are likely of repeating one anothers' impressive feats, like Quinlan giving in to the Dark Side and being barely able to end Dooku, or Kit Fisto, who completely negated Grievous' assassination attempt with ease)
  • Kylo Ren (Is stated to be able to defeat ESB Luke, who was already able to fight Post-Rebels Vader)
  • Luke Skywalker ( [First key excluded] ESB Luke is stated to be able to fight Post-Rebels Vader, which by itself is quite the achievement, but his RoJ self is stated to be a menace to both Vader and Sidious, and his Sequels' self should be more powerful, quite possibly turning him the most powerful Jedi ever)
  • Mace Windu (Depending on the media telling the story, he was either stalemated or winning against Sidious both due to his lightsaber wielding and due to the usage of the Force)
  • Mother Talzin and Old Daka (Despite being defeated by both, Talzin could contend with Sidious and Windu for moments. Daka scales above her)
  • Obi-Wan Kenobi (Obi has been always able to outperform the most amazing of the foes, Maul, Post-Mustafar Vader and Grievous, for some, and mixing his youth and recklessness with Force-wielding has deemed him a very important member of the last Jedi Council, according to basically every other member at the time.)
  • Qui-Gon Jinn (A very similar statement to Obi-Wan, this time by every member according to a book, his questioning and unique comprehension of the Force made impressive Force-wielders such as Yoda and Dooku change at least a bit how they thought about the Force, with Dooku having inner monologues about what a padawan meant for his life and Yoda being taught by him about Force spirits, which made Yoda meditate a lot to change how he saw the Force itself)
  • Rey Skywalker (Comparable to Kylo Ren, she should be able to defeat ESB Luke, also)
  • Savage Opress (Pressured in a 2v1 against CWs Ani and Obi and Asaj feared fighting him even with help)
  • Seventh Sister (Comparable to varying degrees to Rebels Ezra, Kanan, Ahsoka and Maul)
  • Tarre Vizsla (Staying in the same way ("Possibly"/ "Likely") as he is always stated to be a famous and very powerful Jedi while being the Mand'alor, and his Lightsaber is an artifact that justified a war between Mandalorians and Jedi, just for the above-mentioned reasons)
  • Yoda (Stated many times as the most powerful Jedi, being regarded as wise and strong from the High-Republic times all the way to the Clone Wars Era, being able to make even the powerful Darth Sidious think about leaving the fight scene when they met in RotS)

But there are some people who are affected because they can deal with Force Wielders without Force Push simply turning them into less than dust, so I think at least in AP or Durability they should also scale, and if just one or the other gets accepted, I'll mark it

-General Grievous (has dealt with numerous Jedi during the Clone Wars, collecting their Lightsabers as trophies)

-Boba Fett* (Wearing a Beskar'gam and being the  second greatest bounty hunter in the galaxy, he has dealt with Jedi more than once and was even about to murder Luke early in the story before he got interrupted, being the one who even told Vader about his son being alive (the same Vader who he could try blastering from far away, where we don't know for sure if it would mean the end of the Sith Lord or not))

-Din "Mando" Djarin* (Also wearer of a Beskar'gam, he has shown in the end of Book Of Boba Fett and in his own so-far-3-season show that he is superior to basically every character that appear on them, including 9BBY Boba Fett, in the matter of fighting, reaching the point of getting adult Ahsoka at gunpoint and being able to react to her pretty well, ending the fight in peaceful terms quite easily.)

-Din "Baby Yoda" Grogu's Possible Durability* (he may have not reached the point of a Jedi Knight yet in AP, but he wears a custom Beskar armor, which I think justifies this durability because of the material)

-The Armorer (Yet another Beskar'gam, but there are also her equipment that could beat up soldiers with Beskar-Alloy armors and she sparred against The Darksaber in Din Djarin's hands with them)

*- We have also approved earlier that Beskar'gam wearers scale to Force wielders at least to a "Possibly" level due to Anti-Jedi equipment being a thing

2: Relativistic Speed
This calc was also accepted, and it affects basically every major player in the Verse too, due to them being more or less equal speedwise and able to deflect and/or react to blasters' shots with ease, since they're trained to do so right from the beginning (aside from Mr. Attack On the Wookies, justifying my point that not all Jedi Masters should be scaling to the same stats, as not all of them are good with the 'saber), while some have keys or the entire profile being above CW Obi-Wan, the one who performed the feat

Ahsoka Tano
Anakin Skywalker
The Armorer*
Asajj Ventress
Bendu
Boba Fett
Cal Kestis
Cad Bane*
Cara Dune*
Cere Junda
Count Dooku
Darth Sidious ([Second key excluded])
Darth Maul
Darth Vader
Din Djarin
Ezra Bridger (Possibly)
Finn (Has also reacted to blaster fire, is also able to match Kylo Ren)
General Grievous
Kanan Jarrus (Possibly)
Ki-Adi Mundi
Kit Fisto
Luminara Unduli
Kylo Ren
IG-11 (Profile titled IG-88, mention that it scales to the model)*
Jango Fett (somewhat reacted to Windu, Boba is also a Clone of his)
Luke Skywalker
Mace Windu
Moff Gideon*
Mother Talzin
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Plo Koon
Pong Krell
Qui-Gon Jinn
Quinlan Vos
Rey
Savage Opress
Seventh Sister
Shaak Ti
Tarre Vizsla (Possibly)
Yoda

*-Those should have a "Possibly", "At most" or something alike due to reacting/scaling to Din Djarin who was in equal terms speedwise with Adult Ahsoka

3: Enhanced Vehicular Mastery for some

See, Vehicular Mastery is standard for every Jedi afaik, but while we still do not know 100% for sure how many MpH/KmH (or any acceleration measurement desired) is equal to 1 MGLT (the measurement for ships in the verse), we know they reach interplanetary distances in minutes while on the range of 20~40MGLT, while those that i'll mention are piloting some of the fastest vehicles ever recorded, fluctuating from 75 to 100+ MGLT, IMO justifying the Enhanced ability

-Anakin Skywalker / Darth Vader (Both profiles; Known as the best pilot of the Jedi Order, and Obi-Wan describes him to Luke as the best pilot in the galaxy. As Vader, pilots his own personal TIE, the 35th fastest thing ever recorded at 105MGLT)

-Din "Mando" Djarin (He goes from piloting a barely qualifiable vehicle to piloting the 8th fastest thing without any effort, outperforming X-Wings and Imperial ships with not much difficult even in Razor Crest, having even less so with the second ship)

-Han Solo / Chewbacca (They pilot a vehicle at 75MGLT, and scale to one another who have been able react to something appearing in the end of the way while still on hyperspace and pilot the ship our of the way (basically despite piloting the slowest qualified ship, they should be the most skilled, since they were old when performing the feat))

-...Kylo Ren (Welp, he pilots his own ship, that goes at 140MGLT, 4th fastest ship ever)

-Stormtroopers (Knights of Ren (who don't have a profile so I'll put here) and Imperial Pilot Troopers simply pilot the fastest things ever recorded, including 155MGLT, the fastest ship ever, justifying at least a possibly)

-Yoda (Despite usually leaving it to droids, Clones or something alike, on a sudden mission to find Qui-Gon Jinn in Dagobah he piloted Anakin's ship, without much (if any) assistance from R2-D2 who would have memorized the way to Dagobah and easied out finding Yoda at Episode 5, which is impressive since everyone who pilots this type of ship relies quite heavily in the astromech Droid that goes with them)

My favorite part, this one is:
Watchful eyes may have seen that Yoda is included in all 3, but he has quite some more still! I very proudly present...

4: Grandmaster Yoda and his complete Revamp!

More than 120 pieces of media were used to base this article, be it games, magazines, books, guides, literally Samuel L. Jackson, educational workbooks, everything,

This is the result of this work!


So, after this very long thing, opinions are very welcome!

Part 1-

Agree: @Duedate8898, @LephyrTheRevanchist
Disagree:
Neutral:

Parts 2 and 3 -

Agree: @Duedate8898, @LephyrTheRevanchist
Disagree:
Neutral:

Part 4-

Agree: @Duedate8898, @LephyrTheRevanchist
Disagree:
Neutral:
 
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Phsccarvalho said:
If the seventh sister is there, shouldn't the Grand Inquisitor be there too?

He was probably just forgotten.

Like, there are so many characters.
Click to expand...
That have profiles? Point them out so I ad them, it is impossible that you point out 5, I'm sure of this.
 
quick question, which characters would Upscale, Downscale or just scale from the AP values?

also agree, this is peam
 
Palpatine should heavily upscale by Endor and the Dyad, Rey also since she’s empowered by all the Jedi including Yoda and Luke by the end
 
Agree in general about AP, unsure about the Inquisitors, Ezra, Kanan and Ahsoka. Will explain later.
 
noninho said:
But i think we can apply it also? idk, so i've left it only at the AP
Click to expand...
hmm ic, was mentioning it so I would know whether to remove the LS section on my Grievous CRT, since he would just be scaling to the Jedi due to Force Amp now scaling to physicals
 
Okay, I'll comment a bit since I'm more relaxed about real-life things.

Point 1.

Honestly, I can't say much about it; the High Republic is basically the period I know the least about in Star Wars. I don't know much about the feat or the scale.

But from what I know, the calculation divides the result between 3 Jedi, two Knights, and one "random" Padawan, right? Although contextually the High Republic period is grander than later, I think it's highly unlikely that a Padawan would be so much stronger than the Jedi Knights of the later period.

Based on that, I think almost all of our force-sensitive characters scale? Like, there might be some like Kanan before the end of season 1 and Erza, but the first key to Kanan's profile is him becoming like the Grand Inquisitor, and Erza's profile is "general," meaning it describes how she is currently.

Point 2.

Honestly, just follow the profiles that have MHS. Because that feat was the old MHS (don't confuse it with the MHS+ that also existed).

Point 3.
ok

Point 4.

I think this is good, I don't know if having scans is mandatory. There were one or two references that were duplicated, like "Star Wars V - The Empire Strikes Back". It was duplicated in issues 59 and 60.

I would also mention in the AP that he faced a version of Sidious that was stronger than ever after facing Windu, in the same way that this is in the speed section.

You forgot the galactic/interdimensional aspect of Force Sense.

I would add this as well (the sources are on imgur).
Absorption and Attack Reflection (Yoda is able to absorb massive amounts of energy, which he can eitherdistribute harmlessly through his body or reflect back to the assailant)
Click to expand...
 
noninho said:
firmly believe that every character upscale, High Republic was a large time ago
Click to expand...
To be fair the average HE Jedi is clearly > Prequel Era but the top tiers like Vader, Palpatine, Yoda, Mace and co would benefit from that based off who they are (Yoda and Mace are in contention as possibly the strongest Jedi ever for example, even if Porter probably has that title)
 
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Phsccarvalho said:
Point 1.
Click to expand...
I've gathered everyone that i saw had relation to Force wielding or Force Wielders, so i can't really see anyone lacking as of now

Phsccarvalho said:
Point 2.
Click to expand...
Will do

Phsccarvalho said:
I don't know if having scans is mandatory. There were one or two references that were duplicated, like "Star Wars V - The Empire Strikes Back". It was duplicated in issues 59 and 60.
Click to expand...
It's due to the tabbers, ugly mode refs and profile itself refs are intercalating
Scans aren't mandatory if we have refs

Phsccarvalho said:
You forgot the galactic/interdimensional aspect of Force Sense.
Click to expand...
aside from the Range section, what's to be added about it that isn't in the Force page?

Phsccarvalho said:
I would add this as well (the sources are on imgur).
Click to expand...
AFAIK this was a part of the Force, a technique not exclusive to him, and the first book wasn't on my list
TY, this was added
 
Hellbeast said:
To be fair the average HE Jedi is clearly > Prequel Era but the top tiers like Vader, Palpatine, Yoda, Mace and co would benefit from that based off who they are (Yoda and Mace are in contention as possibly the strongest Jedi ever for example, even if Porter probably has that title)
Click to expand...
I'll understand that by "HE" you meant High-Republic, if not, tell me what it is

Wym it's > than prequel era? Spaceships got faster, better and better lightsaber fighters were appearing and the chosen one prophecy came true, with the only person ever recorded to have a midichlorian count higher than Yoda's appearing and while he became one of the most well-versed Force wielders registered, there were people scaling to him and others scaling to them, so i can't see a proper basis for this claim
 
noninho said:
aside from the Range section, what's to be added about it that isn't in the Force page?
Click to expand...
I think it's just the Force Spirit. You can do what I do on Obi-Wan's profile: quote and link to the page.

noninho said:
AFAIK this was a part of the Force, a technique not exclusive to him, and the first book wasn't on my list
Click to expand...
That has been changed. Actually, I should never have posted that scan.

Yoda's Force Power is rare, just like the Force Echo and Force Projection.
 
noninho said:
I'll understand that by "HE" you meant High-Republic, if not, tell me what it is
Click to expand...
Yep
noninho said:
Wym it's > than prequel era?
Click to expand...
As per numerous sources the High Republic are when the Jedi are at their peak, Yoda is also apparently in his prime and Porter Engle, “the best there was, is and will ever be” was alive and active.

I’d also note that Kirak is held as > the Jedi Anakin/Vader faced which means he’s stronger than several Council members including Obi-Wan Kenobi, Shaak Ti and more.

Anakin does have a higher count but he’s clearly an outlier as the Chosen One and it’s debatable if he even reached his potential before his fall to the Dark Side. Aside from that, Yoda has statements of being in his prime during the High Republic so the characters scaling to him would scale to an older Yoda.
 
Hellbeast said:
Anakin does have a higher count but he’s clearly an outlier as the Chosen One and it’s debatable if he even reached his potential before his fall to the Dark Side. Aside from that, Yoda has statements of being in his prime during the High Republic so the characters scaling to him would scale to an older Yoda.
Click to expand...
Shouldn't there be separate keys then because HR Yoda > Prequel Trilogy/Clone Wars era Yoda then?
 
Well, if you have scans saying that the average Jedi of the High Republic are stronger, okay. Anyway, the feat is shared with a Padawan as well, so I don't think it matters much.

I don't know if Kirak Infil'a can be used as much of a benchmark since he was a Jedi completely focused on battle.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
I think it's just the Force Spirit. You can do what I do on Obi-Wan's profile: quote and link to the page.
Click to expand...
'k, so i change the range section to say this rating but only as a force spirit?

Hellbeast said:
Yep

As per numerous sources the High Republic are when the Jedi are at their peak, Yoda is also apparently in his prime and Porter Engle, “the best there was, is and will ever be” was alive and active.

I’d also note that Kirak is held as > the Jedi Anakin/Vader faced which means he’s stronger than several Council members including Obi-Wan Kenobi, Shaak Ti and more.

Anakin does have a higher count but he’s clearly an outlier as the Chosen One and it’s debatable if he even reached his potential before his fall to the Dark Side. Aside from that, Yoda has statements of being in his prime during the High Republic so the characters scaling to him would scale to an older Yoda.
Click to expand...
Pretty much everything you claim here should be brought up with scans, ngl

TegamiBachi25 said:
Shouldn't there be separate keys then because HR Yoda > Prequel Trilogy/Clone Wars era Yoda then?
Click to expand...
If he bring enough scans, i might do it, but the key will be quite lamely just saying "Stated to be in his prime in comparison to his older self", whereas the other key will remain the same lol
 
bet. applyed what i understood, tell me if more is needed
 
TegamiBachi25 said:
Shouldn't there be separate keys then because HR Yoda > Prequel Trilogy/Clone Wars era Yoda then?
Click to expand...
That’s my suggestion yep
I’d go further and say most characters need one or two keys since even Grievous is noted to have advanced his cybernetics as the war dragged on for instance.
noninho said:
Pretty much everything you claim here should be brought up with scans, ngl
Click to expand...
Gimme some time and I’ll grab them, at work rn
 
Hellbeast said:
True but I’d imagine Dagan Gera isn’t a top tier of the era, nor Cal representative of the more average Jedi by his second game

That still may be a mark against my proposal tho
Click to expand...
Another one: AFAIK the midichlorian count doesn't change throught your life, so Ani having a higher count than Yoda is representing a lot
And the claims that Yoda is the most powerful Jedi are from the Prequels era, so even if the count does fluctuate, it still is not much to your side if child Ani's > Old-but-still-most-powerful Yoda
 
There's no problem.

I only mentioned that regarding the relativistic scale, it was just a matter of following the MHS of the profiles, because that feat was based on that MHS before it was recalculated for relativistic.
 
noninho said:
Another one: AFAIK the midichlorian count doesn't change throught your life, so Ani having a higher count than Yoda is representing a lot
And the claims that Yoda is the most powerful Jedi are from the Prequels era, so even if the count does fluctuate, it still is not much to your side if child Ani's > Old-but-still-most-powerful Yoda
Click to expand...
And that's also not to mention that the Force does work the same as Ki in Dragon Ball. Freddie Prinze Jr. did once say in an interview that there are no power levels in Star Wars, but there's more nuance behind that statement in that you just can't give an attack potency to the Force in how it can raise or lower a character's power depending upon the situation. Trying to do so, to place every character into one neat level of power only lands you in the trappings of the Sith, it reveals just how much one doesn't understand the story of Star Wars, and it takes out the nuances of the Force itself; really when you think about it, no matter how strong or powerful the Sith may be, the Force will always be able to raise the Jedi up to be able to defeat them, that's just how it works, and even according to George Lucas himself the most powerful beings in the Star Wars Universe are neither the Jedi or Sith but the Whills, which are microscopic lifeforms that maintained a symbiotic relationship with the Midi-Chlorians.
 
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