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Power Nullification part looks good to me.
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Lord of Mysteries Revisions (Part 4: Physiology and Cosmology Pages)
- Thread starter SuperNova55555
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Aight
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I think the blog can be more clear about it also being resistance, it's not like higher ranked Beyonder just power null a Demoness charm
And it should list all of the haxs instead of just the notable one
Also minor nitpick why is that mind and fate manip resist example so specific when you can just just say higher ranked Beyonders like resist those powers from Visionary or Aeon pathway
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These changes look largely fine; though, there should be reference for the verse-specific powers and abilities page.
Editing Rules
Editing Rules
- Always include the References section in character pages, explanation pages, information blogs, and verse-specific powers and abilities pages to source all the important information covered within them. To learn more regarding how to use them, read the References page. New pages without that section may be deleted after ample warning if no adequate justification (such as the series lacking any useful demarcations, or none of the justifications on the page coming from only one specific part of the source material) is provided in the edit summary or in response to inquiry, and no indication that they will be added is given.
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So, the past few months I have been reading LoM, not really making any profiles or planing any revision, just purely reading it for the sake of enjoying the story, and because of this I have been avoiding spoilers, and most if not all the COI scans used here (and most scans come from COI) are from parts I still haven't reached (as I'm almost at chapter 400, when Lumian and Franca receive the main mission of discover the truth behind the Sauron and Demoness families), so I can't fully comment about the whole thing but, I still have some things to say.
First of all, any new page must have references for its scans, it has been like that for more than a year already.
Second, I feel like the scans aren't organized in the best way, like take for example this part:
Scans linked directly to the justification of the Body of Heart and Mind to showcase the improvement of the analytical capabilities, and the Ether Body aura, would also be good.
About the time and causality resistances:
Additionally, it should be mentioned that the Historical Void, which has the power to project the scenes or elements of the past, cannot manifest something related to a Uniqueness, showing the acausal nature of the Uniqueness. This should also work to show the gap between a demigod and an angel, because an Scholar of Yore like Klein can only summon an angel from the Historical Void if the angel is close to him and they have agreed to the summon, the angels are also aware when a Historical Void projection of themselves has been summoned and they can potentially transfer their conscience to them, and the Scholar of Yore that summoned them cannot even confirm their true state through the feedback received from the summoning.
Next. Sequence 1 can already use concept manipulation, for example, the Grafting of Attendant of Mysteries which directly acts on concepts.
I'm mostly fine with the defensive power null, those from a higher rank also tend to suppress Beyonders of lower ranks but that's mostly due their overwhelming aura that paralyzes and scares the other side, somewhat of an extreme example of this (which is the first that comes to mind due to just reading that part) when Lumian and Hela where in the Women Spring their bodies and minds where utterly paralyzed by the residual aura of the dead high level beings there, but when they "woke up" they were still able to take some defensive actions.
There may be more things I wanted to say, but it's already late here and I mostly forgot them, so I will leave my input here.
First of all, any new page must have references for its scans, it has been like that for more than a year already.
Second, I feel like the scans aren't organized in the best way, like take for example this part:
At the beginning, there's an album with various scans from many different chapters (and thus different contexts), but then when it comes to the justifications of the abilities themselves granted by the Astral Projection there is no scan linked, so for example if some want to see quickly see why Astral Projection grants Dream Manipulation they have to go to the album and look at the fourth image to see Klein using dream divination with his Astral Projection, or the Soul Manipulation part (since for example, after reading the scans I'm not really seeing the part where it's shown to interact with other souls in a way that isn't NPI), so it ultimately ends confusing the reader about which of the images is the one supposed to demonstrate the ability to corroborate its validity, compared with the Incorporeality, NPI and Flight that have scans directly linked to the exact showing of the ability (btw, that scan doesn't show NPI as Klein isn't interacting with other incorporeal things).
Scans linked directly to the justification of the Body of Heart and Mind to showcase the improvement of the analytical capabilities, and the Ether Body aura, would also be good.
About the time and causality resistances:
While the third image works to show that an angel rank could break through the time loop, I feel like Magician/Fors being unaffected by the time loop in Cordu, and Lumian time reset not being able to erase the small residual aura of a Sequence 0 because of its high level, are also good to display this trait of high level existences. The time loop being unable to undo changes caused by Beyonder characteristics or boons also shows a particular resistance to time manip for all Beyonders in general
Additionally, it should be mentioned that the Historical Void, which has the power to project the scenes or elements of the past, cannot manifest something related to a Uniqueness, showing the acausal nature of the Uniqueness. This should also work to show the gap between a demigod and an angel, because an Scholar of Yore like Klein can only summon an angel from the Historical Void if the angel is close to him and they have agreed to the summon, the angels are also aware when a Historical Void projection of themselves has been summoned and they can potentially transfer their conscience to them, and the Scholar of Yore that summoned them cannot even confirm their true state through the feedback received from the summoning.
Next. Sequence 1 can already use concept manipulation, for example, the Grafting of Attendant of Mysteries which directly acts on concepts.
From what I get Nova wants to list the qualitative difference in rank as a defensive power null (like the Magic Resistance of the Servant Physiology), however the problem then come from the fact that, if they are always nullifying the powers of lower beings, then they aren't really resisting them because they are nullified before having the chance to truly affect them, so they cannot get resistance against those powers unless they face and resist abilities from beings of an equal rank that they don't nullify.
I'm mostly fine with the defensive power null, those from a higher rank also tend to suppress Beyonders of lower ranks but that's mostly due their overwhelming aura that paralyzes and scares the other side, somewhat of an extreme example of this (which is the first that comes to mind due to just reading that part) when Lumian and Hela where in the Women Spring their bodies and minds where utterly paralyzed by the residual aura of the dead high level beings there, but when they "woke up" they were still able to take some defensive actions.
There may be more things I wanted to say, but it's already late here and I mostly forgot them, so I will leave my input here.
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- #47
Thanks
(I’ll fix it when I have time)Yea I thought about this too. The main issue though was that for a lot of those abilities, it uses the exact same Old Neil’s explanation, so I would need to just copy-paste the exact same album over and over again which I found a bit redundant. And honestly you gotta cut me some slack hehe. It’s quite a bit of work having to scour through 2500~ chapters of content over and over again. Sometimes it’s more practical this way. Thooo it can definitely be fixed if it’s really such a problem
I’m aware of all of these, but I merely found them redundant in one sense or another because the main section of this whole part is just to showcase that an “omni-resistance” exists, not that it can resist specific things. So I only thought a couple of examples was alright (which seems to be the case for admins).
It’s mainly that S1s can get abilities with CM (which can vary pathway to pathway and in application), but they don’t have the CM1 the same way S0s have it (wherein they just fully embody a concept and is a universal thing across all pathways).
This is a valid one, I feel. I can just change the wording from “resistances” to “abilities that have been nullified” or smthn like that
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- #48
Huh? Why can’t they? I’m pretty sure a demigod resisting charm alr happened in the series lel
Seems kinda meaningless when it’s literally just every hax ever (with the aforementioned small exceptions). Also, that’s an insane amount of work lol.
The section is not for pathway-specific resistances. Also, the scans I took are just the ones that popped to mind at the time of writing. There isn’t much intention behind which ones I picked
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My point is a higher ranked Beyonder doesn't powernull a Demoness charm they just resist it, unless it's the active skill one, how are they powernulling beauty, so i agree if you say its powernull (for supressing lower ranked Beyonder and their powers like the Aeon Loop hax) and resistance
Because the wiki wants to be accurate, physiology pages actually list the haxs/resistance with its justification even if its a long list that includes almost every haxs on the wiki (examples that comes to mind is Dragon Talisman cultivator physiology page or Nasuverse Servants), i don't think you can expect people to just accept that "oh yeah this resist/powernull almost every haxs on the wiki" without listing it with its justification
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- #50
You can simply negate portions of abilities and not the whole thing
This can be inferred by just looking at any ability listed on any LOTM profile (also power null doesnt need you to list these iirc)
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Most pages repeatedly use the same scan for many justifications if said scan prove the claim made, so that's just normal behavior. However, you could do something like linking only the relevant image to the justification instead of the entire album, like with the Body of Heart and Mind, only the image talking about the Body of Heart and Mind being in charge of analysis and the brain from Old Neil explanation is relevant to that justification, so you can take the link of that specific image inside the album and link it.
Yeah but these shows a Sequence 3 not being affected by the time loop of a Sequence 4 (wince Circle Inhabitant is Sequence 4 equivalent), the residual and weakened aura from a higher entity being overwhelming to lower rank abilities even if they lack Beyonder characteristics or a imprint of their will (purely just because the aura itself is superior in quality), Sequence 3 struggling to affect Sequence 2 and above in a spatio-temporal sense (which demonstrate the qualitative difference between the peak of the demigod rank and an angel existence itself), the kinda stuff that demonstrate the difference in ranks quality (even if the difference is of only one rank) and the acausal nature of Beyonder powers themselves.
The point is that Beyonders already can affect and utilize concepts without advancing to Sequence 0, while Sequence 0 have a greater control over concepts with the Astral World and Symbolisms (Amon vs Klein being a good showing of this in practice).
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- #52
I'll fix it in a jiffy
Fors is S2 there. I can add the aura sure, not that there's much work there. And the acausal shit is just meaningless because that's a property of the uniqueness and not of the Beyonder, and they already have BDE3 in the astral world so this doesn't add anything.
This is through pathway-specific abilities only. A S1 doesn't have any CM pertaining to it's status and S0s going to the Astral World is something that's inherent to their status as deities and not an ability. I mean, even Ludwig can eat concepts at S2, does that give every S2 CM...?
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It points that angels does indeed have concept manip, with the specific concept being related to the authority of their pathway, there's a reason why they are considered subsidiary gods.
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Again omg, Angels do not have inherent CM not tied to an ability. (You know this) This does not qualify for omni-CM
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- #56
Not much reason ngl. Mods rarely check main page forums from what I know. We just wait for one of them to check their profile walls since me and Historian messaged quite a few of them
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Okay, no problem. I’m new here so I will take a note
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So let me get this straight:
1. Authority is conceptual
2. But only a minority of pathways allow Angels to manipulate Concept externally(Error,Fool,Door,Death,Devouring etc)
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You keep not getting it brooooo. They can manipulate concepts but the way they do so is through specific abilities in a case-by-case manner, which will be different in all Angels. The CM for S0s has nothing to do with these abilities at all.
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Actually, what do we give to Uniqueness? I would guess it's a major part since it can somewhat bridge the gap between an Angel and a S0
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Confused exactly what you mean by this
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I mean how KoA can affect S0's and that Uniqueness is described to give a part of the Authority of S0
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Uniquenesses would just give S0 hax since they are its source (Authority). We also know KoA’s can do the same thing like change a Pathway and stuff (obviously since they have the Authority). I guess the only real difference between them would be powerlevel or how much they’re allowed to use an Authority
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Just should probably include it as a note somewhere, otherwise different KoA can become anti-feats for a layer difference between Angels and Gods
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Sure yea, was also thinking about it. But if there are any “anti-feats”, they can prob be taken in a case-by-case scenario since not all KoAs have Uniquenesses. And honestly, we alr have some good pure Uniqueness feats nevertheless
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Btw, I almost forgot to say, but I did add references for both pages
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- #69
Yes
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Guess I’ll bump this or smthn
isn't adding one layer per sequence a bit too much?
I don't remember anything that would make the potency that much greater bar the qualitative enhancement you get from sequence 5 to 4 and from 3 to 2 and from there to 0
...unless by rank, you mean what i said, in which case forget what i said >.>
Altho i do think there is some merit to each sequence being a layer above the other in terms of potency of abilities, as goat smith kept consuming beyonder remains and after even eating like half a dozen of em he was still only comparable in potency to a beyonder of the next sequence evolution, at least if memory serves me right.
I don't remember anything that would make the potency that much greater bar the qualitative enhancement you get from sequence 5 to 4 and from 3 to 2 and from there to 0
...unless by rank, you mean what i said, in which case forget what i said >.>
Altho i do think there is some merit to each sequence being a layer above the other in terms of potency of abilities, as goat smith kept consuming beyonder remains and after even eating like half a dozen of em he was still only comparable in potency to a beyonder of the next sequence evolution, at least if memory serves me right.
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No, this is only Infinite speed unless you show the character can actually physically travel forward and backward in time; treat time as physical distance. or else High 1-B and above (not 1-A) is only Infinite speed by default
From FAQ
The scans even supported that Souls having infinite speed
The rest seems fine to me
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Immeasurable has already been accepted in a previous CRT; the reasoning is that the Spirit World is the union of all time (past, present, future)
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Why? That seems like temporal omnipresence or something undefined.
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Because it can’t be linear movement as it breaks the speed formula, because it can’t be that souls move T1 -> T2 since they’re moving in a space that dissolves the distinctions from differing timeframes and spatial axis. And it’s not necessarily temporal omnipresence either because these souls aren’t the Spirit World itself. So at bare minimum it must be an exotic form of a temporal dimension which is also immeasurable as per the speed page.
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No, it's not Immeasurable speed; it's not different from moving in a timeless void. It is something that is Undefined, Unknown. Break speed formula isn't necessarily Immeasurable speed. The reason the Immeasurable speed break speed formula due to it treat time as distance
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But it does treat time as a distance…? Time literally dissolves with the space itself; it’s undifferentiated
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Oke, I guess this explanation is more concise
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