Kara no Kyoukai - Swirl of the Root Tier 0 (Re-Retake)

[ShinMaximillion]

Since the previous threads, this and this, went down quite terribly due to a flux of off-topic and the thread reaching nowhere in general, we, the supporters of Type Moon, have decided to get it moving again and have it be re-done (for the third consecutive time).

The topic, once again, being the obvious, is Swirl of the Root Tier 0?

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SWIRL OF THE ROOT

From the start, regarding Swirl of the Root—
It is described by Nasu as the observation of everything from start to finish, an extension of its nature as dialectical self-closure. It is described in several parts of the source material as the beginning and end of everything, but the exposition of this description requires compartmentalising the 'function' difference of the Ultimate Reality.

The Akashic Records

It is a part of the Swirl of the Root, described as another function that is attached to the Swirl of the Root. It serves a teleological role, regarded as the record of all things from the beginning to their end. However, the Akashic Records are indivisible (non-compositional) in that it is neither an 'archive' and likewise a collection of disparate records. It is also not 'information', such that one record exists as a discrete part of a greater set of information.

It is 'Existence' itself, and given that it resists reduction to being the sum of all its derivative phenomena (which will be further expounded on later), it is Existence not univocally, but Existence analogical.

Origin

"Like a flash of lightning emerging from the vortex that is the source of all things, a certain directional force is born. …A current of meaning that dictates ‘to do something,’ shaping the matter that aligns with that current. Sometimes, that matter takes the form of a human being. Perhaps it could be called the directional force of what arises from the primal cause—a compulsion born from the swirling chaos of the Root, a force that dictates, ‘I must do this.’ In the end, everything with form follows a preordained design—an absolute imperative. This chaotic impulse is what magi refer to as Origin."

In procession, it is exclaimed that from the Swirl of the Root, a current of meaning flows (emanates). This meaning upon which it gains substantiality is a derivative of what is called the 'origin', or rather, the meaning emerging from the Swirl of the Root is no different from the function called the 'Origin'. The origin exists in (or properly speaking is unified with) the Root. The Origin is the essence of existence possessed by all things indivisibly so.

"The concept of Origin refers to something even higher than that. If past lives exist, then it stands to reason that there must be even earlier past lives before them."

Because it serves as the source of directionality for all things, it is outside of becoming (flux) as the underlying substance behind all becoming. Origins are akin to henads, in that it is obvious there are many different types of Origins (Araya with Stillness, Ryougi with Emptiness and Shirou with Sword), these differences exist specifically by orientation to the manifested world. That is, Origins are differentiated in the manifested or the world of becoming.

But multiple Origins coexist in a unified manner, the same way henads produce effects in accordance with their sovereignty over the multiplicity they give.

A thread of existence that stretches back beyond even being human, beyond even being an object—continuing uninterrupted. There is a definite starting point for what you call ‘you,’ a place where your existence first came into being. But that place holds no such thing as life. What exists there is merely the initial cause—only a direction that determines how things will unfold."

However, from this we can understand that this thread of existence stretches beyond subject and object division: from that it stretches beyond being a human and being an object. The latter sections of the statement discuss how, within the Swirl of the Root, all that exists is an initial cause that serves as a direction to determine how things will unfold. This is bearing in mind that this single "direction" determines how "things will unfold", with the adjective being in plural. Undermining the plausibility of several directions unfolding into their respective phenomena, they serve as their basis.

Undivided Nature of Origins and Akashic Records

Pointers towards this can be observed in the nature of the Akashic Records themselves. The Akashic Records are just a 'singular' record of all things. In the Kara no kyoukai movie (Paradox Spiral), it is described as the dream the Godhead has of all creation as it unfolds.

"Being far means that it has no form. It is an event [出来事] that does not depend on the observer’s [観測者] impression, but rather controls the observer itself. That is the only phenomenon that can be called eternal [永遠]—the perfect ‘record’ [記録].

In oblivion recording, it goes about being described as the only eternal phenomenon. An event (with respect to the flow of phenomena) that does not depend on the observer's impression but governs the observer itself (with respect to all things being subordinate to their origin). It is a perfect and eternal record. Its relationship to Origins is surmised later in Oblivion recording, in discussions of the reality of the true self:

It is not that you exist as yourself, but rather you must recognize and accept that the time you have accumulated — that very time itself — is what constitutes your self. A definite personality has never existed from the beginning. You must admit this.

Recording is, in other words, the core of the soul (魂) that is not even influenced by your own thoughts. This is what is preserved (保管) eternally. Take it into yourself, become one with it, for it is your own wound. If you do so, even if the world disappears, it will remain within you, and your..."

In which the true self is the culmination of the direction you took within time, from the beginning to the end, which is otherwise called the Origin. But, it is this true self that is also regarded as 'recording' itself, the core of the soul that can never be influenced by the observer or one's own thoughts. It remains preserved eternally, even at the end of all things — when the world eventually disappears, it will remain with oneself.

until the world ends, we are together. [それ は] It will remain forever. [ずっと 残っ て い て] It will never change." [それ は] "There is no need for traits, such as personality. If the history that one's self has accumulated is the only evidence that demonstrates the self, [自己 が 重ね て き た 歴史] then that will be something that doesn't change no matter what happens." [それ は 何 が 起き て も 変わら ない モノ に なる] "If the observer itself can become the object being observed, [観測 者 そのもの が 観測 さ れる 対象 に なれ ば] then both the thing being observed and the observer remain unchanged." [観測 する モノ も 不変 で あり、観測 さ れる 対象 も 不変] "That is eternal, [永遠] as the mage said." [魔術 師 は 言っ た]

The true self is something that remains unchanging no matter what occurs in the world of becoming. As a testament to its indivisible nature, it is the point at which the observer [subject] becomes unified with the object observed [object]. Such that both of them remain unchanging, and that is to be eternal. A sentiment that nudges towards the non-dual nature of all things, such that not even that which is created by the Root is fundamentally differentiated from the Root itself.

The Swirl of the Root is the totality of existence and non-existence → Origins are directional impulses emerging from it = The Akashic Records, which is the indivisible record of these impulses as they manifest and return to the Root.

To give a few brief elaborate examples of what was being expressed above, we can look towards; first at the epilogue. Wherein「Shiki Ryougi」describes the experience of Shiki within the Root:

"...Because my origin is the void, the Shiki who possessed that body can see death. For two years—while in a comatose state and unable to see the outside world—the Shiki who only kept gazing at the nothingness called Ryougi Shiki came to know the feel of death."Kara No Kyoukai - Original Epilogue -

She states that Shiki, for two years, was unable to observe the outside world; instead, she was gazing at the nothingness called Ryougi Shiki. Yet, this same nothingness is the Swirl of the Root. What is left to logically conclude from this is that the true self is something that becomes self-reflexive and defined as identical to the Swirl of the Root itself. Since at the level of experiencing the Root, Shiki Ryougi was in fact experiencing herself.

Another example of this is Gray, who, in their near-death experience, had a glimpse of the Ultimate Reality.

I was dreaming. I was aware of that. The surroundings were like darkness, yet in truth, it was not darkness at all. It was not light either—perhaps it was the absence of color itself, or so I thought. I was severed from everything. Only the flow remained. It was a vortex.
The Adventures of Lord El-Melloi II Volume 8: Fem's Casa (Lower) - Chapter 5

Much of it remained descriptively similar to the one Shiki has in Kara No Kyoukai: Hollow Shrine. A place that was neither dark nor light, the absence of colour itself — she became severed from everything, wherein only the flow remained. It was the Root itself.

Yet, my feet did not stop. Not even the will to stop arose. The flow itself was me, and I was the flow. Why should I fear returning to the place I was born?
"……… … … …"The Adventures of Lord El-Melloi II Volume 8: Fem's Casa (Lower) - Chapter 5

But the more notable partition of this exposition is what Gray expresses, which is identical to what「Shiki Ryougi」says of Shiki's experience of the Root. That the flow, the Root, was herself, and she was the flow. That's why it is more appropriate to call the Root the beginning and end of everything, as dialectical self-closure, rather than referring to it as the First Cause to which things merely move outward from.

"If the purpose is to learn,then is the process also about learning?If there’s only a beginning and an end, isn’t that the same as zero? There is a purpose. But at the same time, you’re not wrong. Magicians are seeking zero. They aim for something that has never existed from the very beginning."/6 (Spiral Paradox, 2)

That is why it is called 'zero', the purpose of existence is to learn, and the process itself is also about learning. What exists there is only the beginning and end, hence there what only exists is 'zero'. All things begin from emptiness and all things end in emptiness, therefore all things are empty — all things are zero. Which makes the Origin as predicable of multiplicity in a phenomenological sense and predicable of simpliciter in an ontological sense. After all, at the end of their cycles, souls diffuse and return back to 'the Origin'. The Origin is in all things, a trace that produces and shapes all things; the Origin is within the Root — a meaning that is consistently outpouring from the Root. The Origins are the Root. It is why Roa suggests “when observers cease to be, everything would've reached permanence”. The manifestation of everything (all phenomena) is zero compared to the Root; the Root is where everything, and nothing, exists.

The Akashic Records exists one end of the Root, the Absolute reality as the recorded cosmos. The Root is absolute.

Conclusions so far:

• The Root is absolute being/non-being
• The Akashic Records are the self-unfolding of all phenomena within the Root's ontological and phenomenological unity.
• The Origin is the directional aspect of that unfolding, one that is processed in division — one truth through the pictures of many slideshows — of one undivided film.

Path to the Root

The path to the Root does not establish the Root as a spatial object or a place to be sought. Obstructions towards the Root are rooted in the psyche, something that reflects a phenomenological restriction rather than a reconstitution of spatial distance. It is explained in the spiral paradox that the paradox that caused mankind to fall further, in distance from the Root, begins within the collective unconscious (Alaya-Consciousness: short for Alaya).
Like Buddhism, in that the ego as clung to, through the Alaya-Consciousness, leads one further from the ultimate truth.

Hominids have become too complex.

In seeking omnipotence, we added too many capabilities. The result: the genes that form the human blueprint are, at base, made of only four types of nucleotides. And yet, this simple spiral of four bases, layered and intertwined endlessly, leads to a paradox where complexity becomes immeasurable.

Because of that paradox, analysis becomes impossible.

Reaching the source is unattainable from the standpoint of modern humans./5 (Spiral Paradox, 1)

Humanity crafted systems, attributes through magecraft (pursuit of infinite purpose, to seek out infinite possibilities/omnipotence through wisdom) — they distance themselves from the Root. Fate plays a significant role in this phenomena, perhaps even the phenomenon itself is inseparable from fate, because fate is mandated by the Origin. In this sense, the fate is reciprocal in that the results and conclusions are constituents of the life lived by the person. (for the Root is simultaneously the beginning and end of all things; therefore, results and conclusions are empty)

Conditions and bondage are interdependent such that the life lived by one carries karmic ties, which reflect a trace of divine commandment (the eternal truths of unfolding/Origins). Magecraft, as chasing infinite possibilities, is described as movement to the future — knowledge is attained, and anything comes to be known. True Magic is a return to the past, a regress to singularity, simplex and oneness.

It is described by Aoko that magecraft, by itself, has no limits within the world of becoming and knowing. However, unlike magecraft, true magic is only capable of allowing you to supervene over one impossibility. That one phenomenon can encompass several effects that fall under the general category of the miracle itself. For example, Second Magic by Zelretch is the operation of parallel worlds. It lets Zelretch perform at least 4 and more effects that fall under the operation of parallel worlds.

At first, it allows for the management of records pertaining to parallel worlds. Secondly, it is capable of actualising possible worlds, upon observation of a possibility:

Q: Are the three routes of "Fate/stay night" parallel worlds existing at the same time? I was curious since I was how it would look to Zelretch.

A: They're parallel... sort of. But if Zelretch was observing, it'd become true, and my feelings on the matter is that I'd rather two routes disappear if one was true.If all of these became possible at the same time, the other routes would become meaningless.
Fate/complete material III: World material - FAQ with Nasu: Miscellaneous, p.136

Through the lens of Taijitu:

For the sake of further stability, for the sake of increasing kinds, it divides into the 四象 [Sì Xiàng/Four Symbols], and for the sake of further complexity, into the 八卦 [the Bagua/Eight Trigrams], and into 二 [Two]––

“Continuing the 太極図 [Taiji Diagram]. From the chaos that is『　』, what divides into two becomes the 両儀 [Two Forms / Yin and Yang]. From there it divides again into the 四象 [Four Symbols], and then, to further complicate, the 八卦 [Eight Trigrams]…”––Did she simply acknowledge being born into that family, and only try to live quietly, in obscurity?

Click, the lighter’s flame sparks. But that is no more. The perfect program has bugged.The current 式 [shiki / formula / construct] is already––

It is explained that proceeding from the undivided chaos that is「 」, yin and yang emerge. From there comes further division into 四象sì xiàng — which in turn divides into 八卦Bagua. The extended context of the psychological account for the distance things have to the Root, relies on the Taijitu:

Hominids have become too complex.

In seeking omnipotence, we added too many capabilities. The result: the genes that form the human blueprint are, at base, made of only four types of nucleotides. And yet, this simple spiral of four bases, layered and intertwined endlessly, leads to a paradox where complexity becomes immeasurable.Because of that paradox, analysis becomes impossible. Reaching the source is unattainable from the standpoint of modern humans.

Hominids in pursuit of the limitless nature magecraft results in adding more layers of complexity and division. It fragments the ultimate truth into several individual pieces. The base form of the human blueprint and genes is made up only of four types of nucleotides, yet that same spiral of four bases (Greater Yin and Yang, less Yin and Yang: sì xiàng). While DNA is fundamentally simple ( composed of 4 nucleotides), underlying complexity multiplies exponentially in perception, thought, and culture.

In participating in further acts of discrimination through epistemic means. For example, defining an apple as it is means you define the world not as an apple and apple not as the world, leading to dualistic tendencies and complexity

So it follows that knowledge, just as much as perception of the external world, causes tendencies to follow dualistic views of the world. The consistency of this can be observed from Touko suggesting that to reach the Root, one must be ignorant, but in ignorance, an individual doesn't realise they have attained it. An solidified by Aoko's own experience of the Root, in reaching the Root, the act of reaching it slipped her memory.

If contradiction is their nature, then why, one may ask, have there been those who did reach the Root? The answer is simple. It is not that there exists some method by which the Root may be reached.
It is merely that there exist humans who can reach it. No matter what wisdom one learns, in the end, magecraft is nothing more than something acquired afterward—an appendage, a secondary graft. Talent is what it truly comes down to. Whether you are born with it or not. Whether you are chosen or not. There exist humans who, from the moment of birth, are already connected to the Root. The primates have grown too complex, multiplied into too many kinds, and drifted far from their source, the Root.

In essence, an agent doesn't simply choose to return to the Absolute consciously. Because there is not known method of reaching the Root, even when in theory there are many. Knowledge and wisdom are secondary, because destiny is elementary. Which is why Touko says the Root is not to be reached; because there exist no method to reach it — there are just humans capable of reaching it.

Examples:

Aoko (reaching the Root/unlocking True Magic): The process began with Aoko looking inward, deep within her own self. That is, reflecting on the "I" stripped of dual reference to the "world". The statement then provides details of her contemplative experience of the Root. In contemplation, she arrives at a perspective wherein ignorance and foolishness from beyond confronted her. As she sought to erase the self from the world, her consciousness regressed towards zero. The process reaches its completion as she unifies her consciousness that regressed back to zero, into a whole. Which is to say, she is unifying traces of her entire directionality from the Root into a whole. This process is later rendered an equivalent of reaching the Root, including the red shadow that follows oneself so as to prevent a regress towards nothingness.

Details of reaching the Root, even when sought, are mysteries themselves. When Touko asks Aoko whether or not her Magic was cause or an effect: whether or not she gained magic from reaching the Root or her magic got her to the Root. Aoko says effect, that is, she gained Magic by reaching the place. The Second and Fourth exist to reach the Root; the First and Fifth exist because one reached the Root. Magic inheritance and path inheritance are similar. Yet, in addition to her having no recollection of why, when and how she reached the Root, Aoko also, of her own admission, thinks there's no proof that there exists a seat of gods there.

As observed above, for Aoko — a path to the Root refers to the ability to connect to the Root, in actualising miracles.

「……たしかに虚無というものが起源であるのなら、彼女は全てのものを無に帰したいと思うのだろう。」"...Indeed, if nothingness is her origin, then she would probably wish to return all things to nothing."「だから例外なく、式はあらゆるモノを殺せた。」"Therefore, without exception, Shiki could kill any thing."Kara no Kyoukai - Original Epilogue - 511

For some, like vessels borne of「　」connection to the Root, is intrinsic to the vessel. Both of which have to do with phenomenological restrictions and phenomenological experience. Archetype: Earth, for one considers「Shiki Ryougi」a hole/path to the Root, on the basis that her vessel is emptiness and therefore connected to emptiness:

A hole leading to the Root. A will manifested in an empty vessel... I suppose such things can happen. A dream that dwells not in the brain, but in the heart. Primitive she may be, but not without beauty. That said...... Isn't she a little too violent?
Conversation 5

The Ryōgi family was a lineage that had spent many years attempting to create a human being of ultimate versatility, producing an empty vessel as a body. Unaware of the danger in their pursuits, they failed to realize that empty means 「 」. In doing so, they created a body that connected to 「 」, embodied by Shiki.

Example (attaining the MEODP): Upon experiencing the ultimate truth in a near-death experience. That of the impermanence (emptiness) of all existing, Ryougi Shiki's mind awakens to the grasp of death (impermanence). It reveals the transitory nature of all phenomenal and conceptual existence. In Assassin (Female Shiki), Shiki's profile Vijñaptimātratā — the conventional truth that all phenomenal phenomena are constituted by consciousness, revealing the ultimate truth of all things as empty. Experiencing the Swirl of the Root killed her sense of self, such that she could remember all memories of herself growing up as Ryougi Shiki, but her immediate recollection of them ceased to exist. That is, she observed her memories, like the perception of an outside observer looking in; she felt as if they were not here. Death emptied her heart, purporting her to closer participation in「 」.

Arcueid describes it as gaining access to a special channel that allows her to receive transmission to a place no living thing is allowed to connect to (the Root).

A special eye that can glimpse a microcosm of the world called the vortex of origin."

"But I can dive even deeper. No—perhaps I myself am that vortex."Kara No Kyoukai - Original Epilogue - 511

「Shiki Ryougi」regards this to be Shiki catching a microcosm [glimpse/fraction] of the world known as the Swirl of the Root, whilst「Shiki Ryougi」herself can glimpse further than that.

The Holy Grail Ritual

Background

• The origins of Einzbern
A factory originally created by the students of the magician who realized the third magic. Began in the year 1 AD.They attempted to reproduce their master’s miracle, but couldn’t do it themselves, so as an alternate plan they tried to recreate a specimen identical to their master and have it reproduce the magic.
Fate/stay night [Unlimited Blade Works] Season 2 DVD Booklet Animation Elements p.19-27

Upon the disappearance of the magician who first realised the third magic. The students of their master sought to create a specimen identical to their master, a reflection of the gate to the divine, to reproduce a new gate to the divine. Upon which, Justeaze was created out of sheer confidentia. A being capable of exercising third magic, much like their master. Her efficiency with third magic was subpar at best, though; it was meant to serve the initial goal of providing mankind salvation through the realisation of immortality.

But because of terrible efficiency, it would take decades for Justeaze to perform the third magic on one human. Using her frame, the Einzberns, Tohsaka, and Makiri family created a magic formula capable of saving many humans at once.

Theurgic Power

The Holy Grail possesses the power to forcibly break the walls to the Swirl of the Root, which are created by humanity, through Alaya-Consciousness. After the Holy Grail War, the Greater Grail enters a dormant state, converting servants into terminals of powers: magical energy itself. Upon this, the Greater Grail releases the servants' spirit cores towards the Throne of Heroes. The energy possessed by the Greater Grail, upon the return of the Heroic Spirits to the Throne, is the same energy utilised by the Greater Grail to carve a path to the Root.

It is important to note that the path to the Root, likewise here, has nothing to do with locomotive means. It refers to Justeaze's capacity to connect to the Root. The Greater Grail is a medium by which vast mana is collected, to facilitate the ability of Justeaze to connect to the Root during Heaven's feel or when wishes are to be granted. It is stated that it is not Justeaze who grants the wish, but that which grants wishes is actually the Swirl of the Root in connecting to it.

Because the Root is an indeterminate, unbroken and chaotic undivided flow of reality, the Holy Grail has to forcibly stabilise its connection to the Root itself—a primordial chaos that manifests in spiritual distortions.

Spiritual Grounds

Spiritual distortions have to do with spiritual grounds. Places considered great spiritual grounds possess higher spiritual distortions, such that spiritual power can gather easily. An example of this is the Aozaki sacred grounds, the only land where Aoko could realise magic. However, because Aoko, in realising magic, inherited all mysteries within the land, the land itself has been rendered irrelevant:

Q: I’ve heard there’s only one managed area in Japan where magic can be activated. Where exactly is that place? Is it the Aozaki family’s territory?

A: Yes, it’s the Aozaki family’s territory. Though at this point Aoko has inherited all of the mysteries, so the land itself doesn’t really matter anymore.

Ｑ：魔法を起動できるように管理地は日本にひとつしかないとのことですが、そのひとつはどこなのでしょうか？蒼崎の管理地なのでしょうか？

Ａ：蒼崎の管理地ですね。今では青子が神秘ごと引き継いでますから、もう土地は関係ないのですが。Fate/complete material III: World material - FAQ with Nasu: Miscellaneous, p.136

Britain is one such example. During the age of fairies, it contained an atmosphere akin to that of the age of gods. It has been previously described as the centre of the planet, wherein extensive mystery is preserved. In fact, it can be used to return to the age of gods, it can be used to fill the planet once more with ether and bring forth the texture of gods.

There are a few more examples of paths to the Root being phenomenological, but to keep the CRT shorter, these will be the only ones I list out for now. Feel free to ask for any in the comments.

Now onto addressing the Anti-feats presented in the previous threads.

ANTI-FEATS

1. The Root is stated to be the pinnacle of dimensional theory, not beyond it.
​

The Root is described as the summit of dimensional theory, not beyond dimensional theory. I begin by clarifying that dimensional theory is not strictly geometric in Type Moon, a story told by Mash. Space comes interlinked with time; time itself has no intrinsic past nor future, axes according to Mash are just tools to keep track of changes within reality.

This makes sense, following that Avalon is not a physical world in any sense. But an abstract world of the mind, the soul of the world, qualitatively removes itself from the material world. Wherein reaching it means you satisfy the condition of being liberated from physical constraints. Which is why the Inner Sea (Fairy World) is described both as a higher-dimensional space (arbitrarily, for it is a higher plane of existence) and beyond space-time (conventional notions of space-time don't apply to it: space-time is described as ambiguous within the Inner Sea).
Unlike the Inner Sea (meta-space), the Swirl of the Root is completely removed from the division between space-time:

Freed from the constraints of a physical vessel, my spirit and soul had begun to stretch beyond their limits, amplifying my true abilities. Perhaps that was why— At this moment, I could see it. Inside the vortex. A space where mind, body, time, and space bled into one another like tangled, dissolving threads. And within it—an incomprehensible record, spreading outward. The Adventures of Lord El-Melloi II Volume 8: Fem's Casa (Lower) - Chapter 5

Gray, in experiencing the Root, was already freed from physical constraints. As her soul underwent a diffusion, stretching beyond its limits — the mind, body, space and time bled into one another, tangled, unifying and dissolving threads amidst zero.

Therefore, even assuming the claim that it exists at the summit of dimensional theory is true (inasmuch as it is the summit of transcendence), within the Root, there is no division between space and time.

The mooncell "contradictions" had their own fair share of critiques in the first thread, so I won't be addressing them.

2. Creation of the World as an equivalent of creating 'the Root'
​

Similar to the case of the Mooncell and the Goddess as the 'root' that causes all things. The term 'Root' used as a proper noun to refer to the Swirl of the Root is superimposed into the term 'Root' used as a common noun to signify the origin point of a specific set of existents. The world egg [world soul] is the origin point of all things within the Planet; it is the records (memories) of the world itself.

Language is absolute.His words become truth as they are spoken.That’s what kind of being God Word is—The ultimate hypnotist, whose words bind all things.

You see, memory isn’t only stored by humans.The world itself also records memory.It’s a concept similar to the Akashic Records, though what he taps into is a lower-order wave phenomenon than that.Oblivion Recording/ 5

It is already outlined by Touko in Oblivion recording that the records of the planet/world are similar to the Akashic Records. However, the records of the world at a lower-order wave phenomenon compared to the Akashic Records, so it cannot follow that the planet is an equivalent of the Root.

• These two 新しい惑星を作る (to create a new planet) and 根源 (source of existence), don't inherently suggest that the creation of the planet is equivalent to creating the Swirl of the Root as well. The term 'source/origin/root' here, again, is a common noun to signify an 'origin point'; the World Egg is already qualified as an origin point relative to the planet. Then there is such a usage of the term 'Root' as a proper noun, such that surrounding contextual clues insinuate that it confers something of the "The Swirl of the Root" itself.

Further additions

I forgot to clarify further, the relationship between the Origin and the Root, which has to do with the significance of「 」as the Swirl of the Root. It is stated that the diffusion souls undergo upon dissolving back to the flow in death alone can never reach the original source (大元).

The Root by itself is an aspect of the Root concealed (transcendent), a part of the Root that is considered "nothingness/emptiness"

“Even after gathering hundreds of deaths, it is true — all I ever pursued were the numbers of the dead.Your goal could never be achieved. Of course it couldn’t.

But there is a truth you cannot know.

Even by experiencing the deaths of tens of thousands of different humans, I believed that within them there existed a diffusion of souls that could lead toward the Origin.

Yet even so—That alone can never reach the original source (大元)./12 (Spiral Paradox, 9)

When souls diffuse and return to an undifferentiated flow, but that act is an act of returning to the Origin. Which is stated that even by those standards, it won't reflect an actual return to nothingness.

Keyword Explanation● Origin /Fullness of the Origin: That which becomes the starting point of all events. It is the source of all existence, and it is said that everything from the beginning to the end of the world is recorded within it. The Akashic Records are also considered a part of the Root’s Stream.

Which is why the Akashic Records are considered a part of the Root's stream/flow, rather than being considered ontologically identical to the Root.

I was cut off from everything.
Only a current existed. A vortex.
It was a place where nothing existed, and yet, everything did.
A vortex of contradictions, of chaos.The Adventures of Lord El-Melloi II Volume 8: Fem's Casa (Lower) - Chapter 5

The Root has been called a vortex of contradictions, a chaotic reality such that nothing exists — yet everything did.

Chaos [Term]
That which has no form. That which will become everything. That which lacks direction. That which will not take form without direction. That which has no meaning. That which should not have meaning.That is chaos.
Tsukihime Data Collection - TSUKIHIME Dictionary: Chaos [Term], p.023

Chaos is defined in the follow ways: By itself possesses no form, but that which will become everything. That which lacks direction, yet is that which will not take form without direction. That which has no meaning and that which should not have meaning.

The Root by itself is nothingness, something that is formless, something without a direction. The Origin is different aspect, a derivative aspect of the Root that functionally gives rise to the Root's self-manifestation. The Root takes form through the direction the Origin facilitates.

“…The Vortex of Origin. The place where all causes spiral together, where everything is already prepared, and therefore there is nothing.
Kara no Kyoukai - Original Epilogue - 512

It is through the Origin that it becomes (or it is everything, given that the Akashic Records is complete) everything, it is nothing because everything is already prepared within it. Because all causes spiral together, these causes outpouring from the Root without a directive. That is why the Akashic Records is asymmetrically a part of the Root's flow and not the other way around.

"Umm... I heard about it in class. It was called the Vortex of Origin [根源の渦]... wasn't it?"
"Ah, yes. It is referred to as the Vortex of Origin [根源の渦], simply the Origin [根源], or even as something so ineffable that it’s merely called ' ' [「 」]. It is the cause of everything [すべての原因であり], the zero [ゼロ] that set all phenomena and events [現象・事象] into motion.
Hmph, saying it out loud like this really proves how inadequate words are [こうして口にしてみると言葉は本当によくないな]. Even terms like 'zero' or 'origin' come with unnecessary colors [ゼロも根源にも余分な色がついていて] that obscure the true meaning they’re meant to convey [せっかくの意味を閉ざしてしまう]."
Choosing my words carefully, I narrow my eyes in thought.
Lord El-Melloi II Case Files Volume 2: case. Twin Towers of Iselma - Chapter 2

When Reines expounds on 「 」, she refers to it as the "cause of everything, the zero that sets all phenomena and events into motion". Yet after that, she suggests "how inadequate words are, even terms like zero and origin come with unnecessary colours that obscure the true meaning they're meant to convey".

This is because, despite being the ground of activity (The origin/S/Akashic Records), by itself it transcends activity, which is why it is described as possessing no direction of its own despite grounding directionality. It already encompasses all things and is immanent in all things, for all things are recorded and prepared within it. Yet, unmanifested it is beyond everything — because it generates (prepares) everything, hence not reducible to everything.

Aoko compares it to the Sun, such that it is far away but has existed there from the beginning. Without it, no human would be able to live. The sun, as the Root reflects how the heat the sun produces for humanity, does not exhaust its unity. The light encompasses everything, nurtures everything, but it does so without collapsing the transcendence and unreflected nature of the Root unmanifested.

This godhead, the Kabbalist’s Ein-sof (The Infinite, literally “without end”) is Ayin (nothingness) prior to creation, but realizes and actualizes its potential as the “All”, with the advent of the finite worlds. Ein-sof exists in a state of coincidentia oppositorum, one in which the opposites of being and nothingness co-exist in a state of interdependence.Kabbalah and Postmodernism

For allegorical purposes, you can think of the Root as everything and nothing in a similar way to the tension of Ayin-Yesh with the Godhead beginning as Ayin (nothingness), producing Yesh — then, as considered both Yesh and Ayin, it is: the All. Of course, the method isn't identical to the one in Type-Moon, but it is more or less the same.


In any case, the Root/「 」 would be Tier 0 and the Akashic Records alongside would be Tier 0 as well, since in-themselves they are inseparable from the Root.

---

That is all. If I'm missing anything of note, I'll point/add them out. Especially in relation to the anti-feats, assuming they're valid. I'll also add the references to most of the quotes soon-ish, the ones that aren't done already ie, since I have tons of stuff going on irl.

Anyway, here's the tally for the CRT.

Agree: @GG55HH, @BoastJr, @KnightOfSunlight, @ExcelsisBerny, @Re5yh, @Ethan37, @ShinyMagicalGirl, @Junkoposter, @BestMGQScalerEver, @Maniaunavailable, @PayanOp, @ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn, @HigashikataJobin, @Elesia011, @Tdjwo, @Hypercyber37, @Saqphire, @CRIMPSUMPSKI2, @ShadowWhoWalks, @Laws_of_Thought, @AlternativePrinciple, @HUBN_999, @TheSilverKing14, @Cautiousexedius, @KaramcaS, @LadyVeldanava, @Deadlock-333, @Youngstargrade, @Tzimtzumim, @Hayato5652, @Shar122, @Ubdon

Staff Votes: @Vietthai96 (Agree), @Qawsedf234 (Agree), @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless (Agree), @Elizhaa (Agree), @Ultima_Reality (Agree)

Neutral:

Disagree:

 

[GG55HH]

I agree

 

[ShinMaximillion]

Supposing the thread is to become too messy, as in cluttered, please make it a staff thread. Given its Tier 0 importance anyhow. Would also be thankful if all staff members were pinged for evaluation, thanks and have a nice day.

 

[BoastJr]

I agree ! However :

 

[Migue79]

I agree ! However :

Can you not upload shitposts to a damn CRT? This is why CRTs of this nature never make progress.

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

Supposing the thread is to become too messy, as in cluttered, please make it a staff thread. Given its Tier 0 importance anyhow. Would also be thankful if all staff members were pinged for evaluation, thanks and have a nice day.

I agree with this. Also, as unimportant as my input is, I agree with the thread as well.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

Following.

 

[Re5yh]

Looks good, I agree

 

[BoastJr]

Snip

CRTs of this nature do not make any progress either because people argue over bad semantics (BB creating the root) or use unrelated terminologies or sabotage threads with bad machine translations

Those are far more prevalent across the countless Tier 0 attempts then anything else

The Root is ineffable and a strong example of it but its not like any non thread/admin staff vote will do anything. Anyways enough derailing

 

[Ethan37]

I have no objections with the OP, counter arguments for the anti-feats was explained well
Also yeah this should be changed into staff thread

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

I read everything and cross-checked with the Tier 0 standards here and some other threads where Ultima explained it since I'm not too well-versed on this... But the OP makes sense, everything is laid out pretty neatly.

My input won't help much, but I think this looks great and I agree, needless to say!

 

[Junkoposter]

Also just another bluename lass here, but yeah, seems like it all checks out to me. Agree.

Keep up the good work!

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Yea sure

 

[Maniaunavailable]

Agree with everything

 

[PayanOp]

Oh! Looks Great, i agree

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

I agree, well done!

There are other scans out there that can be included if needed.

 

[HigashikataJobin]

Agree with everything.

 

[Elesia011]

I obviously agree, good job

 

[Tdjwo]

I agree, obviously.

No excuse not to get this to tier 0 now.

 

[Hypercyber37]

Agree

 

[Saqphire]

Agree

 

[KLOL506]

@DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality @Executor_N0 @Agnaa @Planck69 @Elizhaa @LephyrTheRevanchist @Dereck03 @Maverick_Zero_X @Just_a_Random_Butler @Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @Celestial_Pegasus @GrathOfLux @Everything12 Your input here would be appreciated

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

I agree.

 

[SuperNova55555]

Peak

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

I agree.

 

[Ethan37]

a part of the Root that is considered "nothingness/emptiness"

I would like to add some addition to the absolute nothingnes part

3.1 Absolute Nothingness
The topos of absolute nothingness is the ultimate “within which” all reality takes place. It can be understood as an alternative to a transcendent determiner of the world as conceptualized, for example, in medieval philosophy’s notion of God, Fichte’s transcendental ego, or Husserl’s transcendental subjectivity. Nishida did use the language of transcendence to explain absolute nothingness, saying it transcended the opposition between being and non-being, for example; but such language did not indicate any thing, power, or consciousness beyond the world. Absolute nothingness is infinitely determinable and its determinates form the actual world, but this “self-determination” occurs “without anything that does the determining,” like an agency without an agent. Equally paradoxical are the positive descriptions Nishida gives it, in spite of the implicit claim that it defies description. Rather than a mere absence of being, meaning, or function, absolute nothingness is active and creative in forming the actual world; and it manifests or awakens to itself through self-awareness. It is the foundation of the world and of the self which is a focal point of the world; but it is an uncommon kind of foundation in that it functions through self-negation. It cannot be called “absolute” unless it negates any particular determination of it and simultaneously enfolds them all. It is the universal of universals. Nishida was not able to combine these various descriptions into one coherent notion, but they partially converge in the sense of an undifferentiated whole that includes all its differentiations.

Aoko: I mean that no one touching the Root has ever come back.

On a global scale. You touch it, you cease to exist on the spot.
"It cannot be called 'absolute' unless it negates any particular determination of it and simultaneously enfolds them all."

The very moment the likes of a human soul touches it, it’ll go back to “where it came from" or be absorbed into the Root, or something.

Aoko: So, even the mages who have left their name in history have refrained from touching just that. At the best, they get close to it to stabilize their own magecraft in a hurry.

Soujuurou: Then how do we know it's that kind of place?

Aoko: Well, because there was probably someone who went inside and told us.

Soujuurou: But you said no one's returned alive.

Aoko: Those people probably ended up becoming God inside, right?"

Aoko: If that's it, then there's no reason for them to come back, right? And it could be that they simply can't come back. ...Well, I can’t really swallow that being "God" is really what we think it is, so I can’t believe it’s going to be very happy.

Those who succeeded and those who failed touched it couldn't return to this world. Why they told people about the "Whirl of the Root" may have been the result of the very first person to have become God wanting companions out of loneliness.....Or maybe because their work on the other side was so massive they needed other companions.

The four bases that comprise the helix structure that composes all of humanity are so simple, yet so complex as to comprise a spiral, cumulatively accumulating unto immeasurability until we all fall into a paradox of our own creation, a paradox that can't be observed. That's why humans and mages alike will never ascend to the origin they aspire to- so I resolved to make one myself. But it was useless. In the efforts I poured blood, sweat, and tears over, I couldn't make the Platonic human, only a perfect me." She pauses for a handful of seconds, allowing herself to breath. I perceived her rambling to be one long breath, a speech that sounded like she said it without knowledge of punctuation marks. The color flushes back to her face, due to the medicine no doubt, and yet the eyes which stare into nothingness retain their dim quality. She adds a final note. "To think that bastard is still trying it, even now. I know he was cast out

The way Nasu has characters talk about the Root is fundamentally apophatic the Root is only ever approached by way of negation, by saying what it is not, or by using names that immediately collapse under their own insufficiency. Every label that has been thrown at it
"God", "Nothingness", "Ain Soph", "the Just Good" in Plato, "the fount of ideas" in Gnosticism-is "correct" in essence, but never adequate.
Each of them is just a linguistic emanation, a conceptual reflection projected out from something that cannot be stated directly. This lines up very neatly with Nishida Kitarð's point that the absolute cannot be positively determined, because every positive determination already constitutes a differentiation within what is supposed to be absolute.

Oh, let me guess, because your soul is hollow?" she says in a mocking tone. "And yet you don't want to die. You know why? Because you've seen that supernal realm that no third-rate Kabbalist can even begin to conceive of, you ungrateful little brat. Look, I'll break down your existential crisis for you. You were inseparable once, but now that's no longer true. Shiki's gone. Big whoop. You're a different person now. You mutter that you don't have the will to live while you entertain the thought of not dying. You say you have no reason to be alive, yet you're scared of death. You're a regular Neville Chamberlain aren't you, sitting on that boundary. Is it still a wonder why your soul is so hollow?"

Theosophy, which seeks God-like knowledge. In ancient times, through Gnosticism, Medieval alchemy, and the genealogy of Kabbalah, through Neoplatonic schools such as Paracelsus, it spread to Western social circles and the New World, and to some Indian societies. This is what should be called modern theosophy.

This is exactly what Touko is pointing at when she contrasts the helix structure of humanity and the doomed attempt to produce a Platonic human out of it. Her monologue about the four bases forming a spiral that accumulates unto immeasurability and collapses into an unobservable paradox shows the limit of any constructible ideal human as an emanation of the Root

she can only create a perfect me, not the Platonic human as such. In other words, any attempt to build up to the Origin from within the helix of determination will only ever produce perfected determinations, never the undetermined ground itself

The same pattern appears in the way
theosophy is framed in
Gnosticism, medieval alchemy, the genealogy of Kabbalah, Neoplatonic currents like Paracelsus, modern theosophy and similar currents are explicitly described as human attempts to seek God-like knowledge. All of them amount to different cultures trying to look toward a certain Directionality-a metaphorical vector pointing at 「　」 itself. What they are actually tracking is not another big being inside the setting, but the direction of an Absolute that continually escapes determination and therefore can only be hinted at through negative theology and symbolic systems.

From this perspective, Root might exceeds Wuji . Wuji are still determinative concepts within a cosmological schema-they exist as nodes inside a structured account of being. , in contrast, is the nothingness that underlies all such concepts, the substratum of both being and non-being, a non-conceptual reality that stands as the source of every determination while itself not being determinable by anything, not even by the category of nothingness in a normal metaphysical sense.

This is why, when Aoko talks about people
becoming God inside the Swirl of the Root and never returning, it should not be read as "personal ascent to godhood at all, but as the erasure of personhood itself" their individuality was dissolved back into that self-negating ground".
Taken in its 「　」 aspect, the Root functions as the undivided ground that any hierarchy or cosmology already presupposes, rather than a new step added to them

 

[Maniaunavailable]

Given this is a tier 0 revision, shouldn’t we call staff?

 

[Huesito88]

Given this is a tier 0 revision, shouldn’t we call staff?

Klol literally did a few posts ago

@DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality @Executor_N0 @Agnaa @Planck69 @Elizhaa @LephyrTheRevanchist @Dereck03 @Maverick_Zero_X @Just_a_Random_Butler @Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @Celestial_Pegasus @GrathOfLux @Everything12 Your input here would be appreciated

 

[Mythic381]

following (should be fun to watch)

 

[Laws_of_Thought]

Agree with Ts

 

[Maniaunavailable]

probably not gonna help at all but adding some random scans I found over the years:

While spoken off as「Swirl of the Origin 」 because that term cannot accurately capture its essence as 「　 」 referring to it as Swirl of the Origin.

「　」that which is difficult to describe. It is an unfathomable force, a point at which there's no reference.

The number 0 is synonymous with emptiness, zero cannot be used to define the Root, the absolute nothingness.

Rather than being an archive, it is better described as “existence” and nothing more. It possesses no will or directive of its own but simply allows all causes to flow from it as if it were the Spiral of Origin itself. Everything that flows from the Akasha derives its form there but is too complex and removed to return to its ontologically simple origin.

「　」is the creator of everything.

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Easy agree, great job

 

[HUBN_999]

Agree !!!

 

[TheSilverKing14]

I agree lmao i guess good work i guess

 

[Cautiousexedius]

I agree

 

[KaramcaS]

I agree but it has more context/statement, add them too

 

[Ethan37]

I agree but it has more context/statement, add them too

Make it clear what you mean by
has more context / statement

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Make it clear what you mean by
has more context / statement

I think they mean there are more statements that support Tier 0 out there.

 

[LadyVeldanava]

I agree

 

[Hjdjdhf]

The Akashic Records

It is a part of the Swirl of the Root

Akashic Records alongside would be Tier 0

What does this mean? Can there be two tier 0 ?