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Some better justification for New 52 Tiers (Superman,Supergirl,Wonder Woman,Superboy(Kon El),Barry Allen,Aquaman)

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FroYoSans

FroYoSans

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Alright so I was looking through the New 52 and Post-Flashpoint profiles for these characters and realized their justification for these tiers kind of sucks and is effectively just a giant scaling chain, which because of comics works however there isn't any actual like feat listed for these tiers which I feel like is problematic so after reading through I wanna say about 200 ish comics in the New 52, specifically all of New 52 Flash, up to issue 44 for both Action Comics and Superman, Issue 40 for Justice League, the entire Forever Evil Event, Justice League of America 13, Superman-Wonder Woman 24, Superman Doomed prelude process and aftermath, and Batman/Superman Issue 4. I think I have enough feats to try and add some proper justification to these tiers, hopefully.

Anyway sorry for the yapping I just figured I needed to justify my potential for knowledge on the subject before going into feats, speaking of which:

Cyborg Superman can fly through Exploding Supernovas and Supergirl beats the brakes off of him

Superman confirms he's stronger than Kara

Superman can fly through Black Holes

Superman travels the universe in 60 days

Superman can probably punch the moon to dust

Superman Flies to Venus very quickly, and also beats the brakes off of Doomsday

Superman destroys this moon and flies there super fast

That being said it is getting late and I have a school night, I'll make sure to add more stuff tomorrow, if there are any problems with this let me know I will try to change it, first CRT so I'm intrigued.
 
The scaling sounds reasonable in theory, as do the feats, but the feats do need to be calculated to be used. Scans are also needed to support all of this.
 
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Welcome back, this is unrelated to their current justifications but shouldn't New 52 characters, at least the ones in Darkseid War scale to 52 universes via scaling to Anti-Monitor who is = to his COIE self ?
 
When it comes to DC or Marvel scaling, we have to follow a few rules. I'll let this be discussed, but staff with deep involvement in those verses should be involved if any change is to be made.
 
First feat: Where are the scans of Cyborg Superman flying through exploding supernovae?

Second feat: Just a scaling scan

Third feat: Black hole feats are unquantifiable.

Fourth feat: Doesn't say anything about the universe, ya got more scans where it explicitly states he travelled to the end of the universe?

Fifth feat: 5-C feat.

Sixth feat: Needs a calc, not sure on what timeframe to assume.

Seventh feat: Moon punching feat is just 5-C. As for speed, same as sixth feat.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
The scaling sounds reasonable in theory, as do the feats, but the feats do need to be calculated to be used. Scans are also needed to support all of this.
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Huh weird all the scans are working for me, is there something wrong with the links?

As for calculations, is it not standard to assume a value for a supernova? It seems like the lowest value for a Supernova isn't less than 10^44 Joulrs of energy, so even taking that fair lowball would still add something to the page besides scaling to Orion who himself scales to Superman

The final Moon destruction feat I listed was calced at Planet to Large Planetary level
Superman Destroys Moon

This crt doesn't even necessarily need to justify Solar System level, I just want some proper values thrown on there, as opposed to the page just saying he's Solar System because he scales to Orion's Avatar and his Superflare is stronger than his regular heat vision
 
KLOL506 said:
First feat: Where are the scans of Cyborg Superman flying through exploding supernovae?

Second feat: Just a scaling scan

Third feat: Black hole feats are unquantifiable.

Fourth feat: Doesn't say anything about the universe, ya got more scans where it explicitly states he travelled to the end of the universe?

Fifth feat: 5-C feat.

Sixth feat: Needs a calc, not sure on what timeframe to assume.

Seventh feat: Moon punching feat is just 5-C. As for speed, same as sixth feat.
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Is the link not working? He says at the bottom of the first panel that he's flown through exploding supernova before

Yes to add proper justification

Fair enough, just figured it added narrative consistency

I never said the end of the universe, I said he travelled the universe in 60 days, there's never any confirmed distance, however we could potentially find a distance by taking the size of the blackholr Superman teleported Brainiac and himself to and find the closest black hole of similar size irl, kind of cross reference that. Its the best we can do since from what I've read there's no established distance. Also for reference Brainiac's Ship dwarfs Earth

For the Venus feat I'd say anywhere from 10-45 seconds seems reasonable for a time frame

And the final feat I've given a calc for
 
FroYoSans said:
That makes sense, just wish they actually bothered linking that on all the profiles. Regardless adding some more feats for the profiles can't hurt anything, just adds more consistency to the profiles
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We can add statistic values and link the calc in each profile. Yeah i agree.
 
FroYoSans said:
Is the link not working? He says at the bottom of the first panel that he's flown through exploding supernova before
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Link's working now, should be good to use.

FroYoSans said:
I never said the end of the universe, I said he travelled the universe in 60 days, there's never any confirmed distance, however we could potentially find a distance by taking the size of the blackholr Superman teleported Brainiac and himself to and find the closest black hole of similar size irl, kind of cross reference that. Its the best we can do since from what I've read there's no established distance. Also for reference Brainiac's Ship dwarfs Earth
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If it's an artificial black hole and not a natural one you're shit out of luck. You'd could use the distance between Earth and the nearest Planet instead.

FroYoSans said:
For the Venus feat I'd say anywhere from 10-45 seconds seems reasonable for a time frame
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You can make the calc on your blog post then and I'll tag some folk to check it out.

FroYoSans said:
And the final feat I've given a calc for
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Weird, can't find any links to the calc.
 
KLOL506 said:
Link's working now, should be good to use.
Click to expand...
Perfect

KLOL506 said:
If it's an artificial black hole and not a natural one you're shit out of luck. You'd could use the distance between Earth and the nearest Planet instead.
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I am 99% sure he teleported Brainiac and his ship to a blackhole since the scans don't mention anything about him making it simply taking him to one. Also even if it is nearest to Earth is way to much of a lowball for 60 days, maybe nearest outside of the solar system since we see him crash through Saturn's rings.

KLOL506 said:
You can make the calc on your blog post then and I'll tag some folk to check it out.
Click to expand...
I'm on mobile, how do I make a blog post?
KLOL506 said:
Weird, can't find any links to the calc.
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In this thread I linked one so that should be good
KLOL506 said:
IIRC this was calc'd to be 5-A ish?
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Sick, do you have the link on hand? It might make my job of finding the size of the Ship way faster
 
FroYoSans said:
As for calculations, is it not standard to assume a value for a supernova?
Click to expand...
I’d assume so yeah, Supernovae tend to be assumed at Large Star
FroYoSans said:
It seems like the lowest value for a Supernova isn't less than 10^44 Joulrs of energy, so even taking that fair lowball would still add something to the page besides scaling to Orion who himself scales to Superman
Click to expand...
Lowkey I think there’s more stuff there too
I know Apollo can manipulate the sun in the WW series and a Superman could fight him and Artemis, I also know Apollo is weaker then Firstborn who Diana fights
FroYoSans said:
This crt doesn't even necessarily need to justify Solar System level, I just want some proper values thrown on there, as opposed to the page just saying he's Solar System because he scales to Orion's Avatar and his Superflare is stronger than his regular heat vision
Click to expand...
I believe I saw something about Superman’s flare being the greatest source of power in the galaxy too, which would mean above supernovae, black holes and Gamma Ray Bursts
 
Hellbeast said:
I’d assume so yeah, Supernovae tend to be assumed at Large Star
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Yeah I figured as much, Large Star to Solar System

Hellbeast said:
Lowkey I think there’s more stuff there too
I know Apollo can manipulate the sun in the WW series and a Superman could fight him and Artemis, I also know Apollo is weaker then Firstborn who Diana fights
Click to expand...
Interesting, I remember Apollo stating out of rage that he "is the sun"
Hellbeast said:
I believe I saw something about Superman’s flare being the greatest source of power in the galaxy too, which would mean above supernovae, black holes and Gamma Ray Bursts
Click to expand...
That wouldn't be to surprising, if you want to find those scans that would be lit
 
Hellbeast said:
I’d assume so yeah, Supernovae tend to be assumed at Large Star
Click to expand...
Supernovae are always High 4-C feats. One supernova is 1 FOE or 1e+44 J.

Hellbeast said:
I believe I saw something about Superman’s flare being the greatest source of power in the galaxy too, which would mean above supernovae, black holes and Gamma Ray Bursts
Click to expand...
Black holes are unquantifiable but the GRB thing might be okay, it'd be consistent with Mogo's feat.
 
Superman can fight Neil Quinn (Ulysses) who is powered by the 4th dimension and can open giant holes to the 4th dimension. We see Superman take hits from Neil. Could take Neil and himself from the dying planet easily and survive part of the explosion and debris from the planet. Even after Neil absorbed the energy from the planet Superman still took multiple hits from him and even overloads him with his superflare
 
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OrangeFR said:
Why do we even have moon level, moon busting feats never actually get moon level istg.
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I mean to be fair this Moon in particle is larger than our normal one, being a cube instead of a Sphere so it would have more volume and mass. But I see what you mean
 
FroYoSans said:
Superman can fight Neil Quinn (Ulysses) who is powered by the 4th dimension and can open giant holes to the 4th dimension. We see Superman take hits from Neil. Could take Neil and himself from the dying planet easily and survive part of the explosion and debris from the planet. Even after Neil absorbed the energy from the planet Superman still took multiple hits from him and even overloads him with his superflare
Click to expand...
This took forever to edit, I now have a newfound appreciation for anyone who does profile links
 
OrangeFR said:
Shit I lowkey didn’t even look at the scan mb gng.
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You're good it's understandable, a lot of feats that have tiers for them go above those tiers simply because most authors don't want to spend an exuberant amount of time showing a planet or Moon being destroyed. I mean damn Roshi destroying the moon is also calced in the same place. As feats increase in scale from what I've seen authors either prefer to spend the least or the most amount of time focusing on the destruction
 
Superman's solar flare is 1000× stronger than normal heat vision and he can take hits from meteors

Also school is starting so peace I'll be back later
 
Hellbeast said:
We could backscale that To figure his base HV, good find
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Alright I'm back for a bit. It's weird because that's already on his profile but like...it's just used as justification for his Solar system tier and nothing else and there's no reason for it to be listed as such because there's no links
 
FroYoSans said:
Alright I'm back for a bit. It's weird because that's already on his profile but like...it's just used as justification for his Solar system tier and nothing else and there's no reason for it to be listed as such because there's no links
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No it's not, his justifications for being 4-B comes from doing better against Orion than Mogo did, who like i linked earlier did this feat (2747.966869 foe), and his solar flare is basically 2000x above that feat (5495933.738 foe).
 
Figure I should give some love to Flash now since it's been nothing but Superman so far. I also noticed there are literally no links for him fighting anyone in the New 52 era, along with him missing some hax, so this one is gonna be pretty mixed (which makes sense because he doesn't have a lot of destruction feats altogether tbh)

Solovar is able to time travel via his mind

Flash can change frequencies and destroy things he phases through

Barry travels from Central City to Africa in an instant

My comic site is crashing rn so I'll get more issue numbers once it's back up
 
Ozcantabak said:
No it's not, his justifications for being 4-B comes from doing better against Orion than Mogo did, who like i linked earlier did this feat (2747.966869 foe), and his solar flare is basically 2000x above that feat (5495933.738 foe).
Click to expand...
First off I'm already aware of that, as you told me earlier, except once again that's not linked, it just leads to Mogo, there's no link to the fight between Superman and Orion or Orion and Mogo. Not to mention it would be 1,000× above that feat not 2K.

You might be forgetting that I'm not here to change his tier I'm here to add proper justification for the tiers provided and give more feats to work with because his New 52 profile is a barren wasteland for AP justification
 
FroYoSans said:
First off I'm already aware of that, as you told me earlier, except once again that's not linked, it just leads to Mogo, there's no link to the fight between Superman and Orion or Orion and Mogo. Not to mention it would be 1,000× above that feat not 2K.

You might need forgetting that I'm not here to change his tier I'm here to add proper justification for the tiers provided and give more feats to work with because his New 52 profile is a barren wasteland for AP justification
Click to expand...
Those links are in Orion's profile (his dura section), but yeah we should add links to Superman's profile aswell. The solar flare is thousands of times more powerfull, not just a thousand times, and that would be at least 2000x (tho i think 3000x would be a more reasonable lowball than 2000x).
 
Ozcantabak said:
Those links are in Orion's profile (his dura section), but yeah we should add links to Superman's profile aswell. The solar flare is thousands of times more powerfull, not just a thousand times, and that would be at least 2000x (tho i think 3000x would be a more reasonable lowball than 2000x).
Click to expand...
Right plurality forgot about that
 
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