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[0-6-0] Jon Snow Vs Faramir (Game Of Thrones Vs Lord Of The Rings)

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Combatants
Jon Snow (Post-Resurrection)
  • AP: 0.0030659314 Tons Of Tnt
  • LS: Class 5 - No Value Given
  • Speed: Superhuman with 59.6762646191 m/s Reaction Speed
Faramir
  • AP: 0.00487 tons of TNT, possibly 0.00974 tons of TNT
  • LS: 32 Tons
  • Speed: 34.3 m/s
Battlefield
  • The Battle takes place in Red Keep Arena where Oberyn and the Mountain fought
  • The Start Distance 5 meters
  • Jon Snow has Longclaw and Night's Watch Armor
  • Faramir has his ranger's armor and a steel sword
  • Speed is NOT EQUALIZED
  • Both are in character
Votes
The Last Targaryen:
The Last of the Stewards: @Tyranno223, @Doggo, @Ser_Hakim_Dayne, @LegendariumOfLies, @AppleMaker, @Random-Helper323
 
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Tbh, I think it's somewhat of a stomp? Stats are fairly close, Aragorn taking AP, SS, and LS pretty handily. Any blade locks will end in Jaime being pushed aside with ease especially.

Meanwhile speed is a tie/in Aragorn's favour since while Jaime has faster reactions, he moves slower.

But the Jaime has nothing in his arsenal beyond his skill. Aragorn has plenty of stuff like telepathy and vastly enhanced reflexes that means Jaime can't even touch him. That and Jaime will be in awe and unable to even look him in the eyes when Aragorn uses EM. And that's just 3 of Aragorn's abilities.

Heck, even skill is a stomp since Aragorn went through the entire trilogy without an injury, surpasses all mortal warriors, etc. And stamina isn't even a comparison.
 
Heck, even skill is a stomp since Aragorn went through the entire trilogy without an injury, surpasses all mortal warriors, etc.
I'm not very knowledgeable at GOT (I'm mainly a fan of the books), but I don't think this is a stomp.

According to this blog, Jaime has never been hit in combat before either (despite having fought at the Siege of Pyke in the show unlike the books) and even after losing his right hand he could still kill Dothraki warriors in combat.
 
I'm not very knowledgeable at GOT (I'm mainly a fan of the books), but I don't think this is a stomp.

According to this blog, Jaime has never been hit in combat before either (despite having fought at the Siege of Pyke in the show unlike the books) and even after losing his right hand he could still kill Dothraki warriors in combat.
Good to know skill isn't too lopsided. Though I'll note that Aragorn goes through the entire LotR trilogy without an injury, even in the middle of dozens of opponents.

But it's less that skill makes this a stomp imo, and more that Jaime's got to deal with
  1. Telepathy making his moves a mostly open book to Aragorn if Aragorn focuses a bit on perceiving his mind
  2. Aragorn's immense situational awareness and control over his body making blunders and being taken off guard very very rare
  3. Aragorn being able to awe Jaime in the middle of combat to the point he'll be unable to meet Aragorn's eyes + believe in his majesty as a king (as in he is the right person to rule + he is a chosen one sort of thing) + feel doubt and potentially even halt momentarily in the middle of combat
  4. Potentially random bouts of being blinded and terrified by the Elendilmir
  5. Aragorn's far superior stamina which is also enhanced as his body is being passively healed by the Elessar (which compounds also his (Low) Regen. Not much of a factor, but in a situation where stamina is lopsided, it helps).
  6. LS advantage so extreme Aragorn might send Jaime's sword flying if they lock or meet for more than a moment.
  7. A notable AP advantage which can go up to over 2x on the high end (a lot less important on the low end)
  8. A speed advantage for Aragorn. Albeit Jaime has the reaction advantage, it doesn't matter because Jaime can't move faster than Aragorn's reaction + is still slower in actual combat.

Idk, it feels like a stomp? Though maybe it's just a low diff.
 
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Good to know skill isn't too lopsided. Though I'll note that Aragorn goes through the entire LotR trilogy without an injury, even in the middle of dozens of opponents.

But it's less that skill makes this a stomp imo, and more that Jaime's got to deal with
  1. Telepathy making his moves a mostly open book to Aragorn if Aragorn focuses a bit on perceiving his mind
  2. Aragorn's immense situational awareness and control over his body making blunders and being taken off guard very very rare
  3. Aragorn being able to awe Jaime in the middle of combat to the point he'll be unable to meet Aragorn's eyes + believe in his majesty as a king (as in he is the right person to rule + he is a chosen one sort of thing) + feel doubt and potentially even halt momentarily in the middle of combat
  4. Potentially random bouts of being blinded and terrified by the Elendilmir
  5. Aragorn's far superior stamina which is also enhanced as his body is being passively healed by the Elessar (which compounds also his (Low) Regen. Not much of a factor, but in a situation where stamina is lopsided, it helps).
  6. LS advantage so extreme Aragorn might send Jaime's sword flying if they lock or meet for more than a moment.
  7. A notable AP advantage which can go up to over 2x on the high end (a lot less important on the low end)
  8. A speed advantage for Aragorn. Albeit Jaime has the reaction advantage, it doesn't matter because Jaime can't move faster than Aragorn's reaction + is still slower in actual combat.

Idk, it feels like a stomp? Though maybe it's just a low diff.
Yeah Aragorn still win.
 
So Faramir is 3x stronger and has a massive LS advantage

Jon is nearly 2x faster

Jon has to rely on skill here if he wants to win. How big is the skill gap?
 
So Faramir is 3x stronger and has a massive LS advantage

Jon is nearly 2x faster

Jon has to rely on skill here if he wants to win. How big is the skill gap?

Jon Snow is considered as the greatest swordsman according to the Northmen. So at the very least Jon Snow should upscale to Eddard Stark and Jorah Mormont skill-wise.

It is implied in the show that Eddard Stark is comparable to Jaime Lannister in skill.

At this point I would say that Jon Snow is comparable to Arthur Dayne or Barristan Selmy skill-wise (The skill scaling of the books and the show is so different lol).

(The skill feats of the characters mentioned are featured in the blog.)
 
Jon is nearly 2x faster
Jon's only superhuman speed. The rating above is his reaction speed if you check the profile. Faramir's faster movement wise but Jon's faster reaction-wise so it kinda evens out.

That and Faramir has a lesser version of Aragorn's blessings, which includes telepathy if he focuses on reading Jon's mind + superhuman control over his movements and superhuman situational awareness.

Jon Snow is considered as the greatest swordsman according to the Northmen. So at the very least Jon Snow should upscale to Eddard Stark and Jorah Mormont skill-wise.

It is implied in the show that Eddard Stark is comparable to Jaime Lannister in skill.

At this point I would say that Jon Snow is comparable to Arthur Dayne or Barristan Selmy skill-wise (The skill scaling of the books and the show is so different lol).

(The skill feats of the characters mentioned are featured in the blog.)
Faramir's in a kinda weird spot skill-wise.

He's stated to be a warrior who no rider of Rohan can outmatch in battle. This includes Éomer who goes through the entire Battle of the Pelennor Fields without taking a single wound and who is shown to be capable of fighting multiple warriors at once at the Battle of Helms Deep (he was one of the defenders in the Book) and said Battle of Pelennor Fields. Albeit, he almost died to an ambush of two Uruks were it not for Gimli, albeit they had to trip him after pretending to be dead to get him in that position. Notably Éomer also seems to avoid any harm at Helms Deep too, minus this ambush.

Faramir's personal skill is left rather undocumented. We hear and see a lot about his superb leadership in the build up to the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, with Faramir leading a superb defense-in-depth strategy that surpasses Sauron's expectations. We also hear from Gondorians like Beregond that Faramir's own skill as a warrior was not short of Boromir, just "less reckless and eager" but "not less resolute". But his actual feats of personal skill is left largely unknown. Certainly skilled with bow and ambush, as seen in Ithilien and he was a capable knight as well, only nearly dying due to the Black Breath of the Nazgûl and an arrow/dart striking him during the middle of a duel with a Haradrian chieftain.

He probably isn't incomparable to Boromir and is arguably even equal or superior in skill, depending on interpretations, though on profile he's listed as just comparable for now but more on that below. Boromir being a warrior who could fight a host of over a hundred Uruk-hai and only lose due to being shot by "many arrows", rather than due to being overwhelmed in melee, and who was rated by Legolas as the strongest member of the Fellowship outside Aragorn (discounting Gandalf for clear reasons).
  • For more exact numbers of how many Boromir can slay at once, we have a few. At Balin's Tomb in Moria, it's said he and Aragorn "slew many" while fighting the goblins with them retreating once 13 of them were slain. Later, however, they go through many more opponents and the actual numbers and how many were faced at once is unclear beyond "hundreds". Boromir notably comes out of Moria with no injuries described.
  • Boromir dies at Emyn Muil, but he is said to have slain so many Uruks that they formed a pile around him and at his feat. Also, were it not for the arrows in him, it's described that it looked as if he was resting, meaning it's likely that despite facing over a hundred uruks alone, he took no injuries in melee, at least no notable ones (though his sword broke by the end).

He definitely surpasses a mere Gondorian man-at-arms like Beregond, who slew 3 of Denethor's guard, 2 of whom he slew while holding a door shut and while fighting multiple guards at once (there being multiple more of Denethor's servants still fighting Beregond).



Regarding how skill matches up.

Jon is probably superior to characters like Jaime who is implied to have, similar to Éomer, gone through multiple foes without a single scratch. Éomer being a character whom Faramir is directly stated to be at least equal to if not superior. Ofc, context matters and Jaime hadn't gone through multiple battles before in that context. He's probably comparable to Barristan as per Hakim, who is able to slay multiple opponents in a row. Faramir is again comparable here, but to a somewhat more iffy degree.

It depends on how favorably you compare him to Boromir, and when you look at the Book
Appendix A
Faramir the younger was like him [Boromir] in looks but otherwise in mind. He read the hearts of men as shrewdly as his father, but what he read moved him sooner to pity than to scorn. He was gentle in bearing, and a lover of lore and of music, and therefore by many in those days his courage was judged less than his brother’s. But it was not so, except that he did not seek glory in danger without a purpose.
This is what the actual appendix has to say, so it's probably safe to put them as equals.

So overall, you should be able to compare Jon and Faramir as both being comparable to warriors skilled enough to hew down many opponents at once or in a row.



So here's how I look at it. For Faramir:
  • Faramir is roughly 3x stronger and has a LS advantage that is high enough that Jon's sword will go flying if they lock blades for more than a moment. Heck, a parry might disarm Jon at that difference.
  • Faramir also has telepathy that lets him potentially read Jon's thoughts
  • Faramir has enhanced senses that gives him superhuman awareness of his surroundings, making him very hard to catch off-guard
    • Which is in conjunction with his superhuman control over his bodily actions
  • Faster movement speed
  • Comparable skill to warriors who can fight and slay multiple skilled opponents at once/in a row.
For Jon
  • Jon's reaction speed is basically 2x faster than Faramir
  • Jon has comparable skill to warriors who can fight and slay multiple skilled opponents at once/in a row.

Overall, this seems like a win for Faramir for me. The exact difficulty is pretty unclear to me, but it seems like he just has more advantages.
 
Jon's only superhuman speed. The rating above is his reaction speed if you check the profile. Faramir's faster movement wise but Jon's faster reaction-wise so it kinda evens out.

That and Faramir has a lesser version of Aragorn's blessings, which includes telepathy if he focuses on reading Jon's mind + superhuman control over his movements and superhuman situational awareness.

Faramir's in a kinda weird spot skill-wise.

He's stated to be a warrior who no rider of Rohan can outmatch in battle. This includes Éomer who goes through the entire Battle of the Pelennor Fields without taking a single wound and who is shown to be capable of fighting multiple warriors at once at the Battle of Helms Deep (he was one of the defenders in the Book) and said Battle of Pelennor Fields. Albeit, he almost died to an ambush of two Uruks were it not for Gimli, albeit they had to trip him after pretending to be dead to get him in that position. Notably Éomer also seems to avoid any harm at Helms Deep too, minus this ambush.

Faramir's personal skill is left rather undocumented. We hear and see a lot about his superb leadership in the build up to the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, with Faramir leading a superb defense-in-depth strategy that surpasses Sauron's expectations. We also hear from Gondorians like Beregond that Faramir's own skill as a warrior was not short of Boromir, just "less reckless and eager" but "not less resolute". But his actual feats of personal skill is left largely unknown. Certainly skilled with bow and ambush, as seen in Ithilien and he was a capable knight as well, only nearly dying due to the Black Breath of the Nazgûl and an arrow/dart striking him during the middle of a duel with a Haradrian chieftain.

He probably isn't incomparable to Boromir and is arguably even equal or superior in skill, depending on interpretations, though on profile he's listed as just comparable for now but more on that below. Boromir being a warrior who could fight a host of over a hundred Uruk-hai and only lose due to being shot by "many arrows", rather than due to being overwhelmed in melee, and who was rated by Legolas as the strongest member of the Fellowship outside Aragorn (discounting Gandalf for clear reasons).
  • For more exact numbers of how many Boromir can slay at once, we have a few. At Balin's Tomb in Moria, it's said he and Aragorn "slew many" while fighting the goblins with them retreating once 13 of them were slain. Later, however, they go through many more opponents and the actual numbers and how many were faced at once is unclear beyond "hundreds". Boromir notably comes out of Moria with no injuries described.
  • Boromir dies at Emyn Muil, but he is said to have slain so many Uruks that they formed a pile around him and at his feat. Also, were it not for the arrows in him, it's described that it looked as if he was resting, meaning it's likely that despite facing over a hundred uruks alone, he took no injuries in melee, at least no notable ones (though his sword broke by the end).

He definitely surpasses a mere Gondorian man-at-arms like Beregond, who slew 3 of Denethor's guard, 2 of whom he slew while holding a door shut and while fighting multiple guards at once (there being multiple more of Denethor's servants still fighting Beregond).



Regarding how skill matches up.

Jon is probably superior to characters like Jaime who is implied to have, similar to Éomer, gone through multiple foes without a single scratch. Éomer being a character whom Faramir is directly stated to be at least equal to if not superior. Ofc, context matters and Jaime hadn't gone through multiple battles before in that context. He's probably comparable to Barristan as per Hakim, who is able to slay multiple opponents in a row. Faramir is again comparable here, but to a somewhat more iffy degree.

It depends on how favorably you compare him to Boromir, and when you look at the Book


This is what the actual appendix has to say, so it's probably safe to put them as equals.

So overall, you should be able to compare Jon and Faramir as both being comparable to warriors skilled enough to hew down many opponents at once or in a row.



So here's how I look at it. For Faramir:
  • Faramir is roughly 3x stronger and has a LS advantage that is high enough that Jon's sword will go flying if they lock blades for more than a moment. Heck, a parry might disarm Jon at that difference.
  • Faramir also has telepathy that lets him potentially read Jon's thoughts
  • Faramir has enhanced senses that gives him superhuman awareness of his surroundings, making him very hard to catch off-guard
    • Which is in conjunction with his superhuman control over his bodily actions
  • Faster movement speed
  • Comparable skill to warriors who can fight and slay multiple skilled opponents at once/in a row.
For Jon
  • Jon's reaction speed is basically 2x faster than Faramir
  • Jon has comparable skill to warriors who can fight and slay multiple skilled opponents at once/in a row.

Overall, this seems like a win for Faramir for me. The exact difficulty is pretty unclear to me, but it seems like he just has more advantages.
I'll count that as a vote
 
Seems like a Faramir win.

I must ask, are we sure the statements about Jon's skill are accurate? Ramsay questions them in the show, no feats or events would justify it, they seem like Jon's prowess might be overrated here.

Also, Boromir fighting hundreds of enemies alone seems to outclass any such feat in Thrones.
 
Isn't this a stomp? Jon is haxless against a far stronger, faster, skilled, and experienced enemy. He's outmatched in every aspect except for reactions, which wouldn't help him against someone who moves and fights faster, and the LS difference means Jon is going to be disarmed at the first exchange
 
Isn't this a stomp? Jon is haxless against a far stronger, faster, skilled, and experienced enemy. He's outmatched in every aspect except for reactions, which wouldn't help him against someone who moves and fights faster, and the LS difference means Jon is going to be disarmed at the first exchange
Eh Jon has better skillslop with experience fighting against stronger foes than him, has Longclaw - which should be able to close the AP Gap, and also has a Berserker Mode in this key which raises his AP and stamina. With higher reaction speeds, it is possible for him to get a good hit in on Faramir.
 
Eh Jon has better skillslop with experience fighting against stronger foes than him
From what others have said, he doesn't have that, he only has a statement and has fought a few warriors at once
has Longclaw - which should be able to close the AP Gap
Which means nothing when he's going to be disarmed in the first exchange due to the difference in LS
and also has a Berserker Mode in this key which raises his AP and stamina.
His Berserker Mode doesn't increase his physical stats, it's not Rage Power, and Faramir didn't kill his brother to force Jon into that state
With higher reaction speeds, it is possible for him to get a good hit in on Faramir.
Higher reactions only mean Jon can dodge a few blows since it's just a single, short, quick movement, that's all. Faramir moves, fights, and attacks faster than him
 
Faramir FRA
Seems like a Faramir win.

I must ask, are we sure the statements about Jon's skill are accurate? Ramsay questions them in the show, no feats or events would justify it, they seem like Jon's prowess might be overrated here.

Also, Boromir fighting hundreds of enemies alone seems to outclass any such feat in Thrones.
Counted

From what others have said, he doesn't have that, he only has a statement and has fought a few warriors at once
Being relative to Jamie and Arthur Dayne (literal god-tiers skillslop wise in-verse) is a bit more than that

Jon Snow is considered as the greatest swordsman according to the Northmen. So at the very least Jon Snow should upscale to Eddard Stark and Jorah Mormont skill-wise.

It is implied in the show that Eddard Stark is comparable to Jaime Lannister in skill.

At this point I would say that Jon Snow is comparable to Arthur Dayne or Barristan Selmy skill-wise (The skill scaling of the books and the show is so different lol).

(The skill feats of the characters mentioned are featured in the blog.)


Which means nothing when he's going to be disarmed in the first exchange due to the difference in LS
Higher reaction speeds means he can easily get out of the way, and unless you have proof that sword locking is either a go to move for Faramir or Jon that is a moot point.

His Berserker Mode doesn't increase his physical stats, it's not Rage Power, and Faramir didn't kill his brother to force Jon into that state
Berserk Mode:

Nothing in the scan shows that Jon's Berserk Mode is completely reliant on Faramir killing his brother. It also allows him to last longer - since both are Peak Human.

Higher reactions only mean Jon can dodge a few blows since it's just a single, short, quick movement, that's all. Faramir moves, fights, and attacks faster than him
Which he can exploit to get a good hit on Faramir. The AP Difference isn't that big - its 0.03 vs 0.04
 
Being relative to Jamie and Arthur Dayne (literal god-tiers skillslop wise in-verse) is a bit more than that
What? Jon isn't relative to Arthur at all, nor to Jaime, who hasn't shown a lot of skill like in the books either. And I know that because I was the one who made the skill blog.
Higher reaction speeds means he can easily get out of the way, and unless you have proof that sword locking is either a go to move for Faramir or Jon that is a moot point.
So you're saying they'll never exchange swords during the whole fight.
Berserk Mode:
Those are just possible uses, not everyone who has the ability has all of that without demonstrating it. Plus I added Berserk Mode to his profile, and Rage Power was rejected because the scans don't show that his physical stats increased.
Nothing in the scan shows that Jon's Berserk Mode is completely reliant on Faramir killing his brother. It also allows him to last longer - since both are Peak Human.
It literally says that Jon entered that mode through a mounting rage against Ramsay, who stole his country, sexually abused his sister, and sadistically killed his brother in front of him. When did Faramir do all that to force Jon into that state? Or do you think Jon is a berserker in every fight?
Which he can exploit to get a good hit on Faramir.
Again, reaction speed only allows you to react to a single short and quick movement, nothing more. Jon still moves, fights and attacks slower than Faramir so higher reactions doesn't mean much
 
What? Jon isn't relative to Arthur at all, nor to Jaime, who hasn't shown a lot of skill like in the books either. And I know that because I was the one who made the skill blog.
Haykim argued otherwise:

Code:
Jon Snow is considered as the greatest swordsman according to the Northmen. So at the very least Jon Snow should upscale to Eddard Stark and Jorah Mormont skill-wise.

This Jon Snow from the TV Show, not books

So you're saying they'll never exchange swords during the whole fight.
That is a straw man. LS doesn't affect Striking Strength in which they are nearly equal (with Faramir having a slight advantage of 1.5x). Unless they lock swords and shove against each other LS isn't really going to come into play. Neither are likely to grapple either.

Those are just possible uses, not everyone who has the ability has all of that without demonstrating it. Plus I added Berserk Mode to his profile, and Rage Power was rejected because the scans don't show that his physical stats increased.
Even if I do concede the AP Part, Jon still gets a stamina buff which will allow him to outlast Faramir.

It literally says that Jon entered that mode through a mounting rage against Ramsay, who stole his country, sexually abused his sister, and sadistically killed his brother in front of him. When did Faramir do all that to force Jon into that state? Or do you think Jon is a berserker in every fight?
I think it is logical to assume if Jon is losing and he thinks he is going to die, he is going to enter the Berserker state - which is a reasonable assumption to make according to the scan where during the Battle of The Bastards Jon is stated to enter a berserker mode when he was losing and nearly dying.

Again, reaction speed only allows you to react to a single short and quick movement, nothing more. Jon still moves, fights and attacks slower than Faramir so higher reactions doesn't mean much
You are very much downplaying reactions. This means Jon more or less can dodge Faramir's attack pretty consistently and given the previously stated Berserk Mode and skillslop has a good chance of outlasting him and getting a deathblow.
 
Haykim argued otherwise:
Which is wrong, Jon never demonstrated or was ever implied to be any comparable to Arthur. And Hakim said that based on my blog, which is something I did for fun and isn't even officially accepted/added into profiles, so if it generates confusion I'll just delete it.
This Jon Snow from the TV Show, not books
Yeah, I can read.
I think it is logical to assume if Jon is losing and he thinks he is going to die, he is going to enter the Berserker state - which is a reasonable assumption to make according to the scan where during the Battle of The Bastards Jon is stated to enter a berserker mode when he was losing and nearly dying.
Jon didn't go berserk because he was losing, but because of his rage towards Ramsey. That's the reason he never went into that mode in any other fight, even when he was losing. And his profile clearly states that he goes berserk through a mounting rage, if you think differently you can make a CRT to change it, but currently it's accepted as that.
You are very much downplaying reactions. This means Jon more or less can dodge Faramir's attack pretty consistently
I'm not, it's literally the wiki definition of reaction speed:
Reaction speed is the speed at which a character can react to an event or action. This usually only grants a short movement upon reaction, whereas several movements at the same speed switch it to combat speed.
Reaction speed is defined as a single movement in a defined timeframe, which a character has been shown capable of. A series of movements in similar timeframes makes this combat speed, so this term should only be applied for a single, quick movement.
So Jon can just dodge a few blows, not several simultaneously (which would be combat speed), in addition to moving and attacking slower.
 
Seems like a Faramir win.

I must ask, are we sure the statements about Jon's skill are accurate? Ramsay questions them in the show, no feats or events would justify it, they seem like Jon's prowess might be overrated here.

Also, Boromir fighting hundreds of enemies alone seems to outclass any such feat in Thrones.
Hi, as a staff I don't know if you have an opinion on whether the match is a stomp or not
 
What? Jon isn't relative to Arthur at all, nor to Jaime, who hasn't shown a lot of skill like in the books either. And I know that because I was the one who made the skill blog.
Jon should be at least superior to Ned and Jorah via statement, and therefore to Jaime via scaling, and at least close to Arthur and Barristan
 
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