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I think we can all agree that the wiki's Mortal Kombat profiles are a mess, even the old revisions removing the Low 6-B ratings haven't been fully applied yet. That's where I come in, with this sandbox!
I'm only going to talk about the Midway profiles for this revision, the Netherrealm cleanup will come some other day. I have two major proposals and a couple of minor proposals, all of which are independent of one another:
Proposal 1: Quan Chi ruins everything
So, as we're all aware, Shang Tsung has a profile and he's rated at 7-C for being one of the "super powered warriors" by the time of Armageddon. Most of the other Midway profiles are rated at 9-A because of the Test Your Might feat. But the problem comes with Quan Chi, who defeated Shang Tsung in Deception's intro. Now you might think "Okay, so Quan Chi's 7-C now, so what?" The problem is that Quan Chi has no lore stating he got stronger since his prior appearances, all we know is that he learned how to travel the realms using hidden passageways with Shinnok's ammulet. This becomes a big problem with the scaling because the elder Sub-Zero defeated Quan Chi in MK Mythologies: Sub-Zero, who Sareena and Scorpion both fought (Scoprion was the whole reason Quan Chi was running in the Deadly Alliance intro), and the younger Sub-Zero embarked to complete his brother's mission (implying relativity), and so one and so forth until everyone scales to Shang Tsung to some degree prior to Armageddon.
We seem to have a conundrum for scaling, which is why I propose we implement 1 of two options (I made the sandbox with option 1 in mind because that preserves the Armageddon keys)
Option 1: (This is the one we're rolling with) We split the scaling so that only those who threaten or fight Quan Chi during the 3D era (Deadly Alliance - Deception) will scale to Shang Tsung's 7-C and downgrade pre-Deadly Alliance Shang Tsung to 9-A. That way the 9-A ratting can remain but still acknowledge the 7-C scaling for Shang Tsung, rationalizing that the "super powered warriors" statement was referring to Armageddon era Shang Tsung. I personally do not think this option is very good, but if people want to keep the Armageddon keys and 9-A ratings, we can do it.Which brings us to...
Here's the finalized scaling chain for this proposal, after much discussion:
Option 2: (Not Getting Accepted, Disregardfor now) We don't split the scaling and allow everyone to either scale, upscale, or downscale from Shang Tsung's 7-C rating in some way. Now before you roll your eyes, what if I told you that Shang Tsung is at his weakest during Armageddon?
Look at this excerpt from Shang Tsung's Armageddon profile:
"He had need of me. But I required a host body in which my soul could reside. At the flesh pits, he forged for me a new body. It was weak and grotesque to behold, but it functioned well enough. I craved mortal souls to heal and fortify my new flesh. I found more than enough at a place all too familiar to me: the village where Li Mei was born. I consumed each peasant's life force as Shao Kahn and Goro slew them one by one. I was renewed!"
Tsung was resurrected into a weakened body that he needed to fortify with souls, and only consumed the population of a village to regain his strength, a far cry from the hundreds of years he spent absorbing both during his tenure hosting the Mortal Kombat Tournament and the decade between the arcade trilogy and Deadly Alliance where he continuously absorbed souls to retain his youth.
The ratings will work like this:
Armageddon Tsung: 7-C
I strongly prefer this option.
Proposal 2: Friendship with Stryker ended, now Quan Chi is my best friend
Currently, the Midway profiles separate the speed tiers into two keys: Subsonic via Stryker reacting to Kabal and Massively Hypersonic+ via Quan Chi reacting to lightning.
Well, the first problem here is that the Subsonic rating is for the pre-Armageddon keys, despite Stryker's feat coming from the Armageddon intro, so that feat cannot be used to pre-Armageddon speed scaling.
However, I would like to point out that Mortal Kombat doesn't establish speed increasing alongside strength like in other series. Even if we were to accept massive strength increases occuring in Armageddon, that would not automatically apply to speed without proof. We've seen weaker characters show relative speed to characters stronger than them, like Shang Tsung and Quan Chi vs Raiden, The Great Kung Lao versus Goro, Goro versus Cage, Sonya, and Kano, Sub-Zero and Shinnok. It's pretty consistent that characters throughout Mortal Kombat to have relative speed. And as mentioned in the previous section, plenty of people fought Quan Chi prior to Armageddon, so it's not like Quan Chi is some sort of untouchable speed demon.
Therefore, I propose (as seen in the sandbox) that we scale all the Midway MK characters to Massively Hypersonic+ reactions and combat speed.
Minor Proposals:
As seen in the sandbox, I made some changes to clarify certain things:
Well, that's all for now. If this doesn't work out, I do have a back-up plan.
Agree: OrangeFR (Option 2 for Proposal 1), Lightning_XXI (Option 2 for Proposal 1), Legion350 (Proposal 2 and Minor Proposals), [B]Firestorm808[/B] (Option 1 for Proposal 1, Proposal 2, Minor Proposals, but only far higher for Shujinko's power mimicry)
Disagree:
Neutral
I'm only going to talk about the Midway profiles for this revision, the Netherrealm cleanup will come some other day. I have two major proposals and a couple of minor proposals, all of which are independent of one another:
Proposal 1: Quan Chi ruins everything
So, as we're all aware, Shang Tsung has a profile and he's rated at 7-C for being one of the "super powered warriors" by the time of Armageddon. Most of the other Midway profiles are rated at 9-A because of the Test Your Might feat. But the problem comes with Quan Chi, who defeated Shang Tsung in Deception's intro. Now you might think "Okay, so Quan Chi's 7-C now, so what?" The problem is that Quan Chi has no lore stating he got stronger since his prior appearances, all we know is that he learned how to travel the realms using hidden passageways with Shinnok's ammulet. This becomes a big problem with the scaling because the elder Sub-Zero defeated Quan Chi in MK Mythologies: Sub-Zero, who Sareena and Scorpion both fought (Scoprion was the whole reason Quan Chi was running in the Deadly Alliance intro), and the younger Sub-Zero embarked to complete his brother's mission (implying relativity), and so one and so forth until everyone scales to Shang Tsung to some degree prior to Armageddon.
We seem to have a conundrum for scaling, which is why I propose we implement 1 of two options (I made the sandbox with option 1 in mind because that preserves the Armageddon keys)
Option 1: (This is the one we're rolling with) We split the scaling so that only those who threaten or fight Quan Chi during the 3D era (Deadly Alliance - Deception) will scale to Shang Tsung's 7-C and downgrade pre-Deadly Alliance Shang Tsung to 9-A. That way the 9-A ratting can remain but still acknowledge the 7-C scaling for Shang Tsung, rationalizing that the "super powered warriors" statement was referring to Armageddon era Shang Tsung. I personally do not think this option is very good, but if people want to keep the Armageddon keys and 9-A ratings, we can do it.
Here's the finalized scaling chain for this proposal, after much discussion:
- 9-A
- MKM Scorpion (Alive and Undead) < MKM Kia < MKM Jataaka < MKM Sereena < MKM Quan Chi < MKM Elder Subzero
- Johnny Cage = Sonya = Kano
- At least 9-A
- Johnny Cage, Sonya and Kano ≤ Goro
- Young Shang Tsung ≤ Great Kung Lao ≤ Goro > Old Shang Tsung
- MKM Elder Subzero ≤ MK2 Young Subzero ≤ MK1 Elder Subzero < MK1 Scorpion
- Young Shang Tsung ≤ Great Kung Lao≤ Goro > Old Shang Tsung < MK2 Shang Tsung < MK3 Shang Tsung
- MK1 Scorpion ≤ MK4 Scorpion
- MK4 Quan Chi ≤ MK4 Scorpion
- MK4 Young Subzero ≤ MK4 Scorpion
- Sektor ≤ DA Young Subzero < DA/D Grand Master Young Subzero
- Hotaru ≤ DA/D Grand Master Young Subzero
- 7-C
- AMG Shang Tsung ≤ Sealed Blaze
- At least 7-C
- AMG Shang Tsung < DA/D Shang Tsung
- DA/D Shang Tsung ≤ DA/D Quan Chi ≤ DA/D Scorpion < Moloch and Dhramin
- DA/D Scorpion < Shujinko < Shujinko w/ Power Mimicry
- Post MK3 Shao Kahn and DA/D Raiden ≤ DA/D Shang Tsung + DA/D Quan Chi
- At least 7-C, likely far higher
- DA/D Raiden + DA/D Shang Tsung + DA/D Quan Chi < DA/D Raiden Sacrifice Blast
- Post MK3 Shao Kahn < MK2 Shao Kahn < MK2 Liu Kang
- At least 7-C, likely even higher
- MK3 Shao Kahn w/ Souls ≤ MK3 Lui Kang w/ Rage
Option 2: (Not Getting Accepted, Disregard
Look at this excerpt from Shang Tsung's Armageddon profile:
"He had need of me. But I required a host body in which my soul could reside. At the flesh pits, he forged for me a new body. It was weak and grotesque to behold, but it functioned well enough. I craved mortal souls to heal and fortify my new flesh. I found more than enough at a place all too familiar to me: the village where Li Mei was born. I consumed each peasant's life force as Shao Kahn and Goro slew them one by one. I was renewed!"
Tsung was resurrected into a weakened body that he needed to fortify with souls, and only consumed the population of a village to regain his strength, a far cry from the hundreds of years he spent absorbing both during his tenure hosting the Mortal Kombat Tournament and the decade between the arcade trilogy and Deadly Alliance where he continuously absorbed souls to retain his youth.
The ratings will work like this:
Armageddon Tsung: 7-C
- The Great Kung Lao defeated a young Shang Tsung (who was absorbing souls back in the day)
- Quan Chi scales, as does Raiden while in Outworld (which may have depowered him if MK3 is to be believed), Taven, Fujin, Sub-Zero, Noob, Scorpion, Moloch, Dhramin, Sektor, etc
- Goro (for surviving against Noob and defeating the Great Kung Lao),
- Kung Lao could hurt Goro with his hat, Kintarro and Sheeva are somewhat comparable to Goro from being Shokan, Motarro scales due to Centaurs and Shokan being rivals.
- Shang Tsung was stronger than ever before during MK3 (see sandbox)
- Liu Kang scales for defeating Kahn in MK2, both would be even higher during MK3 (Kahn for absorbing all the souls on Earth and Liu Kang being rage-amped by the apparent death of Kung Lao to defeat him)
- The Elder Gods scale since Kahn feared their wrath, Shinnok might scale here for being a fallen Elder God and being compared to Kahn by Quan Chi, and Onaga would scale in his original body due to requiring Kahn to poison him to be defeated
- Old Shang Tsung should be here since he still fought Liu Kang and survived attacks from him after Kang defeated Goro but still being weaker, the Red and Black Dragon members should scale off of Kano, Stryker and the low tiers should be here via downscaling the Centaurs from MK3
I strongly prefer this option.
Proposal 2: Friendship with Stryker ended, now Quan Chi is my best friend
Currently, the Midway profiles separate the speed tiers into two keys: Subsonic via Stryker reacting to Kabal and Massively Hypersonic+ via Quan Chi reacting to lightning.
Well, the first problem here is that the Subsonic rating is for the pre-Armageddon keys, despite Stryker's feat coming from the Armageddon intro, so that feat cannot be used to pre-Armageddon speed scaling.
However, I would like to point out that Mortal Kombat doesn't establish speed increasing alongside strength like in other series. Even if we were to accept massive strength increases occuring in Armageddon, that would not automatically apply to speed without proof. We've seen weaker characters show relative speed to characters stronger than them, like Shang Tsung and Quan Chi vs Raiden, The Great Kung Lao versus Goro, Goro versus Cage, Sonya, and Kano, Sub-Zero and Shinnok. It's pretty consistent that characters throughout Mortal Kombat to have relative speed. And as mentioned in the previous section, plenty of people fought Quan Chi prior to Armageddon, so it's not like Quan Chi is some sort of untouchable speed demon.
Therefore, I propose (as seen in the sandbox) that we scale all the Midway MK characters to Massively Hypersonic+ reactions and combat speed.
Minor Proposals:
As seen in the sandbox, I made some changes to clarify certain things:
- Removed references to the Netherrealm Timeline as we're completely separating them now, no cross scaling
- I removed the outdated 7-B and Low 6-B scaling for Taven, Daegon, Blaze, and Onaga (among others)
- Separated keys for the younger Sub-Zero to reflect the increase in strength he got from the Grandmaster's Medalion and ancestral armor
- Separated keys for Shang Tsung to reflect the increases in strength Shao Kahn granted him over MK2 and MK3 as well as the power gained from Deadly Alliance's Soulnado
- Renaming Onaga's keys to reflect the nature of his ressurection with the Kamidogus
- Adding a far higher rating for Shujinko as he defeated Onaga by gaining all the collective combat power from the Deception cast (at least 15 of them onscreen)
- I think we can treat this as a multiplier (1 + 15 = 16 times stronger) because the fighters have shown relatively to Shujinko earlier in the Konquest mode, to varying degrees.
Well, that's all for now. If this doesn't work out, I do have a back-up plan.
Agree: OrangeFR (Option 2 for Proposal 1), Lightning_XXI (Option 2 for Proposal 1), Legion350 (Proposal 2 and Minor Proposals), [B]Firestorm808[/B] (Option 1 for Proposal 1, Proposal 2, Minor Proposals, but only far higher for Shujinko's power mimicry)
Disagree:
Neutral
Last edited:
. The second one seems best considering the statements of him being depowered as of Alliance. (Though if it goes through a bunch of opportunities for 9-A SF vs MK VS threads go out the window, which is sad).
