Star Wars Discussion Thread Canon/Legends- Episode VI Return of the Threadi

[Phsccarvalho]

He manifested himself to appear and speak to Ezra, how's that not astral projection (and to rey too)
And to speak to Obi-Wan, who rarely got out of Tatooine and still managed to train meditations and other with Yoda

Astral Projection involves letting your soul/spirit leave your body and interacting with things based on that.

What Yoda primarily did with Erza was communicate through Force Vision.

They're not exactly letting their souls/spirits leave their bodies to speak in an astral plane.

They're actually using the Force to see and communicate with each other from a distance through Force Vision. That's why you can see Yoda sitting in a tree. Force Vision involves a lot of things depending on what the vision wants to show you (I think everything is already indexed?).

"Jedi are known to have elaborate—and often cryptic—visions of the past, present, and future. These visions can occur at any time but are particularly common during meditation or sleep, or upon entering a location highly attuned to the Force. They can serve as grim warnings of what is to come, but they can also hold secrets and solutions that can aid the Jedi in their quests. Although they are filled with deep meaning, these visions can be just as mysterious as the Force itself."

"Through the Force, things you will see. Other places. The future... the past. Old friends long gone."

 

[Nonynho]

(I think everything is already indexed?)

• Enhanced Senses, Extrasensory Perception, Cosmic Awareness, Information Analysis, Clairvoyance, Precognition and Retrocognition (With Force Sense, which expands the Force user's consciousness on a galactic scale, allowing them to sense things from a distance, even while in another dimension, especially when events cause a disturbance in the Force or when they have a strong connection with someone. Force Sense allows the user to feel their surroundings, sense danger, locate hidden beings or enemies even through barriers, see in total darkness, feel incoming attacks, sense the presence, emotions, and strength of others, and even hear distant voices. With Force Vision, it is possible to have visions of the past, present and future, which can serve as dark warnings of what is to come, but they can also contain secrets and solutions. The Force gives a bit of precognitive ability, allowing you to see things before they happen)
• Telepathy (Force-sensitives can spy on the thoughts of others. The Force passively fact-checks everything that is said to the user, allowing them to know whenever someone lies to them)

Refs cut off, but none of what you said is indexed or mentioned in the Force page. Should i add as "Enhanced Telepathy" in Yoda's profile or you'll be indexing that as part of the page?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Refs cut off, but none of what you said is indexed or mentioned in the Force page. Should i add as "Enhanced Telepathy" in Yoda's profile or you'll be indexing that as part of the page?

Hence the "?". I can add in the telepathy section about force vision.

I think telepathy is the closest?

Because, as I said, Force Vision is a jumble of powers.

 

[Nonynho]

Hence the "?". I can add in the telepathy section about force vision.

I think telepathy is the closest?

Because, as I said, Force Vision is a jumble of powers.

I agree to put under telepathy, since it's basically that.
Do we see others performing it so effortlessly like Yoda or can i put his like "Enhanced Telepathy"?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I agree to put under telepathy, since it's basically that.
Do we see others performing it so effortlessly like Yoda or can i put his like "Enhanced Telepathy"?

It doesn't matter to me.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Does this mean that Blasters are actually lasers?

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Also this might be of some help:

@noninho If you want any better scans of specific pages, feel free to ask

 

[Nonynho]

It doesn't matter to me.

You seem kinda bothered, not my intention if i did something. Tell me if that's the case and i'll apologize for it, mate

 

[Nonynho]

@noninho If you want any better scans of specific pages, feel free to ask

Would you mind handing me the book in a readable format like PDF (or a format that i can convert to it, like Reaper reminded me)?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

You seem kinda bothered, not my intention if i did something. Tell me if that's the case and i'll apologize for it, mate

What? No, lol

It just sounds more serious in English.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Would you mind handing me the book in a readable format like PDF (or a format that i can convert to it, like Reaper reminded me)?

I've tried this and some EPUBs ended up extremely broken and unreadable. Better to use this:
https://annas-archive.org/view

.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Would you mind handing me the book in a readable format like PDF (or a format that i can convert to it, like Reaper reminded me)?

It’s not available on Anna’s Archive or Amazon, sorry. All I can do is ask the Wookiepedia discord server for specific pages, and they don’t want to do many pages at a time or potentially commit piracy

 

[Phsccarvalho]

100% focused on Yoda and i don't think i'm competent enough

But on the justification part, i think you can just point out the feats together with idk "Stronger in the Dark Side"?

Are there two main things that complicate or could be controversial?

It would be regarding the Republic-era characters, especially Windu and Yoda.

And the other, whether Rebels Maul actually scales to Rebels Ashoka (because that affects old Obi-Wan, which affects him from OWK, which affects pre-Rebels Vader, making him scale to his future feat, which affects Jedi Survivor Cere).

But it seems like there aren't many here to discuss it. Like, even @Eficiente returned to Legends, where are the canon guys?
Probably if I posted a crt of the low 7-C/Class G some who don't follow this thread might show up to chat but I wouldn't want the conversation to be disorganized, I'd like to have it here first.

 

[Nonynho]

Are there two main things that complicate or could be controversial?

couldn't quite get what you mean, may i ask you to rephrase?


Managed to read every book and magazine on the first bunch @Hagane_no_Saiyajin sent me, now i'm only lacking a short other bundle and that video, then i'll jump to videogames and that will be it for the first reform.

 

[Hunterzillas]

Hey, so Vader's profile, is this the only justification for him surpassing his previous peak in power? Is that a toy? I could have sworn on our old profiles there were book quotes. Maybe I'm misremembers.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Hey, so Vader's profile, is this the only justification for him surpassing his previous peak in power? Is that a toy? I could have sworn on our old profiles there were book quotes. Maybe I'm misremembers.

That's what I found. If you have more, you can post them here.

 

[Hunterzillas]

That's what I found. If you have more, you can post them here.

Right but how is that supporting evidence? It's a toy, a (Japanese?) toy with no known oversight into what was being written for its description. If he just chain-scales, sure, but if we're relying on THAT for evidence, it feels disingenuous. Even if it isn't the only evidence it shouldn't be there.

Unless there's some canonicity to this toys description that I'm unaware of.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Right but how is that supporting evidence? It's a toy, a (Japanese?) toy with no known oversight into what was being written for its description. If he just chain-scales, sure, but if we're relying on THAT for evidence, it feels disingenuous. Even if it isn't the only evidence it shouldn't be there.

Unless there's some canonicity to this toys description that I'm unaware of.

Being a toy (even from another country) is fine. As long as it's authorized, of course.

This toy is authorized (it says "used under authorization").

 

[Hunterzillas]

Being a toy (even from another country) is fine. As long as it's authorized, of course.

This toy is authorized (it says "used under authorization").

No duh it isn't bootleg, but how does that make anything it says applicable as a feat? It's a statement on the box of a toy, c'mon you have to see how this isn't right. It goes on to describe it's function as figure with which you can place in dynamic poses.

This isn't a piece of prose from within the story of "Star War" talking about the difference in force mastery between Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker, it's an advertisement bit to sell a figurine. There is no way this is just "fine".

 

[Phsccarvalho]

No duh it isn't bootleg, but how does that make anything it says applicable as a feat? It's a statement on the box of a toy, c'mon you have to see how this isn't right. It goes on to describe it's function as figure with which you can place in dynamic poses.

This isn't a piece of prose from within the story of "Star War" talking about the difference in force mastery between Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker, it's an advertisement bit to sell a figurine. There is no way this is just "fine".

It's a licensed/authorized product. The description isn't just on the website, it's also on the product box itself.

"You have to see how this isn't right."

Bruh? The only thing that matters here is whether it breaks the wiki's canonicity rules or not. So instead of telling me your personal opinion about using it or not, tell me why it can't be used according to the wiki rules.

 

[Hunterzillas]

It's a licensed/authorized product. The description isn't just on the website, it's also on the product box itself.

"You have to see how this isn't right."

Bruh? The only thing that matters here is whether it breaks the wiki's canonicity rules or not.

So is every other Star War toy/memorabilia, should we start scouring the box of every licensed Star War toy ever made, LEGO, t-shirt, coloring book, every single miniature set?

Also, bruh, the BOX of the toy is not any more confirming than a website, probably less so. The box is literally the most disposable piece of the whole thing.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

So is every other Star War toy/memorabilia, should we start scouring the box of every licensed Star War toy ever made, LEGO, t-shirt, coloring book, every single miniature set?

Lego is its own universe, so their statements are for Lego (Like Star Wars Visions). But the rest is fine, like, there are literally licensed/authorized card games that tell Star Wars information or stories. There's nothing wrong with that. The same thing with children's books like Golden Book. Disney always outsources products to different companies like EA for games, DK for some books, etc. All are acceptable if they have been licensed/authorized.

Also, bruh, the BOX of the toy is not any more confirming than a website, probably less so. The box is literally the most disposable piece of the whole thing.

Both the website and the box contain the description, which, like everything else on the product, was created as an authorization. It may be discardable for you, but not for me.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me where this breaks the wiki's canonicity rules.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Being a toy (even from another country) is fine. As long as it's authorized, of course.

This toy is authorized (it says "used under authorization").

Does the same go for LEGO sets?

 

[Hunterzillas]

Lego is its own universe, so their statements are for Lego (Like Star Wars Visions). But the rest is fine, like, there are literally licensed/authorized card games that tell Star Wars information or stories. There's nothing wrong with that. The same thing with children's books like Golden Book. Disney always outsources products to different companies like EA for games, DK for some books, etc. All are acceptable if they have been licensed/authorized.


Both the website and the box contain the description, which, like everything else on the product, was created as an authorization. It may be discardable for you, but not for me.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me where this breaks the wiki's canonicity rules.

When I said website, I meant an official website describing the events of Return of the Jedi as applicable to the story. This is not that. This is a product description of what the box says.

The box for the toy.

Not an original story or piece of hidden lore like a Star Wars Encyclopedia or source book, or a lore book, or a cool playing card fact; it's a blink and you'll miss it, miniature set piece box description that apparently was Japanese only.

I have no problem with Vader scaling past Anakin, but this just isn't it. If it's already on the page and inline with the sites rules, whatever, but we're frauds.

 

[Nonynho]

Does the same go for LEGO sets?

for their own canon, yeah

 

[Phsccarvalho]

When I said website, I meant an official website describing the events of Return of the Jedi as applicable to the story. This is not that. This is a product description of what the box says.

The box for the toy.

Not an original story or piece of hidden lore like a Star Wars Encyclopedia or source book, or a lore book, or a cool playing card fact; it's a blink and you'll miss it, miniature set piece box description that apparently was Japanese only.

I have no problem with Vader scaling past Anakin, but this just isn't it. If it's already on the page and inline with the sites rules, whatever, but we're frauds.

There is no difference between other products in this regard. Most products, even more complex ones like encyclopedias, are made by third parties (like DK) with authorization/license.

"Minor" items don't lose validity just because they're smaller, like Tropps Cards' carding games (another company that makes licensed Star Wars products). Many of their cards tell a lot of stories, and there's no difference in having authorization/license for this action figure that tells story details through the product description. The product was made by a Japanese company but is sold worldwide.

You're simply rejecting something based on your own opinion. You haven't explained why this product is less valid compared to other third-party products with the same authorization. You also haven't explained how using this product is invalid according to the wiki's canonicity rules.

Vader already surpasses Anakin in other ways. Half of the internet thinks vsbattle is a scam and talks badly about the site, so it doesn't matter.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

"Minor" items don't lose validity just because they're smaller, like Tropps Cards' carding games (another company that makes licensed Star Wars products). Many of their cards tell a lot of stories, and there's no difference in having authorization/license for this action figure that tells story details through the product description.

Speaking of which, @noninho you are able to access the card links on the Yoda sources, rights?

 

[Nonynho]

Speaking of which, @noninho you are able to access the card links on the Yoda sources, rights?

Ngl I haven't tried
Will try them now since I've already read those helmet stuff

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Ngl I haven't tried
Will try them now since I've already read those helmet stuff

Don't forget to look at the other links also

 

[Nonynho]

Question:
Games may be canon, but what about skills?
Yoda has passive healing his surroundings and passive 8% Damage Reduction in Battlefront 2, is this unacceptable or anything?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Question:
Games may be canon, but what about skills?
Yoda has passive healing his surroundings and passive 8% Damage Reduction in Battlefront 2, is this unacceptable or anything?

The three main abilities in Battlefront 2 are usable because they appear in the story.

When you play as Luke, Leia, Solo, etc., those abilities are usable, meaning they're part of the story. Some even appear recurrently, such as Darth Vader's Focused Rage, which also appears in Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes and Star Wars: Force Arena.

But things like the passive ability to heal upon killing enemies, I think, are more of a gameplay mechanic. In any case, their use has already been accepted.

 

[Nonynho]

But things like the passive ability to heal upon killing enemies, I think, are more of a gameplay mechanic.

I'm actually speaking about those:

Jedi Mentor
Grants 5% / 6% / 7% / 8% passive damage reduction to Yoda

(Presence ability) Grants 150 Health to Yoda and his Hero allies while granting 70 health to trooper allies. Will also break Yoda out of any immobilizing effect.

(The specific values can be something of a debate and I'd talk about it if you validate that I can use this (speaking of this, will be using speed values as something if I can get more stuff to corroborate))

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I'm actually speaking about those:


(The specific values can be something of a debate and I'd talk about it if you validate that I can use this (speaking of this, will be using speed values as something if I can get more stuff to corroborate))

The second one is flawed, as I said. Besides, Yoda's own description says he can heal himself.

The first one is a skill/boost card. I don't know if that's considered gameplay or something valid to use.

I mean, a version is. In this case, the boost cards in the game's campaign represent the main character's equipment, so swapping the cards changes the equipment, etc.

But for the heroes? Well... there's no way to use it in the campaign, so I wouldn't use it at least.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Also this might be of some help:

@noninho

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

sandbox5

vsbattles.fandom.com

Speaking of Yoda, i'm 60% through what @Hagane_no_Saiyajin handed me and those were the things i think are justifiable in his profile. Any views?
will send this again whenever i complete it

On your question "why tf isn't the page named 'Yoda'?" since this is Disney canon we're talking about, it might be better to call the page "Yoda (Disney Canon)" as eventually we will need to make a "Yoda (Lucasfilm Canon)" page

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

@noninho @Phsccarvalho Not sure if either of these are needed or not, but I still think they're good to have: https://transfer.pcloud.com/downloa...tln60ehlXBZ4hzz7ZJwc7mPCBWMQrn28SY9khVJqF93OV

 

[Grimm's_Fortitude]

I'm sorry, but why in the ever-loving f*ck does R2 not have a page?! Like, seriously, C-3PO has one but not R2?!

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I'm sorry, but why in the ever-loving f*ck does R2 not have a page?! Like, seriously, C-3PO has one but not R2?!

Because nobody created one.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

CONDE DOOKU, EL DESTINO DE UN JEDI CORRUPTO
Además de su título y de sus activos financieros, el conde Dooku poseía varios atributos clave que hacían de él un candidato ideal para que Darth Sidious lo sedujera. Dooku era uno de los Jedi que mejor se manejaba con la espada, al nivel de Yoda y Mace Windu. El primer aprendiz conocido de Sidious, Darth Maul, fue moldeado como un arma con la que hacer frente a los Jedi, y su sustituto debía estar igual de dotado para el combate. Aunque

COUNT DOOKU, THE DESTINY OF A CORRUPT JEDI
In addition to his title and financial assets, Count Dooku possessed several key attributes that made him an ideal candidate for Darth Sidious to seduce. Dooku was one of the Jedi most skilled with a sword, on par with Yoda and Mace Windu. Sidious's first known apprentice, Darth Maul, was molded as a weapon to confront the Jedi, and his replacement needed to be equally gifted in combat. Although

[Book] Star Wars: El Lado Oscuro

[Book] Star Wars - The Complete Visual Dictionary - New Edition

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

@noninho @Phsccarvalho Not sure if either of these are needed or not, but I still think they're good to have: https://transfer.pcloud.com/downloa...tln60ehlXBZ4hzz7ZJwc7mPCBWMQrn28SY9khVJqF93OV

@Phsccarvalho did you download these?