Madness manipulation and AI

[Qurbonboev]

Do we consider AI immune to madness/mind manipulation by default? Or we consider them as beings without mind?
Can Nyarla madness manip(type 2 and 3), that works on ethereal minds like Hypnos, works on Black Fog, seemingly sentient AI?

 

[AlexSamDen]

By default we assume that it doesn't affect them, however feats from both sides may affect this judgment

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Do we consider AI immune to madness/mind manipulation by default?

By default yes, an AI is generally assumed to be immune to mind hax and by extension type 2 madness. As stated on the inorganic physiology page, but its important to understand that not all AI, robots, etc function the same and some in fiction do have minds and even souls.

Can Nyarla madness manip(type 2 and 3), that works on ethereal minds like Hypnos, works on Black Fog, seemingly sentient AI?

I think Hypnos is a pretty poor example, as Nyarla does not seem to have acaus type 5 or interaction of it on it's page, as far as I can see. Where as Hypnos does have acausality type 5, which would by default make it immune to everything Nyarla can do I believe. As for Black Fog, because Nyarla is H1A I'm pretty sure it will still be able to affect it due to the differences in their state as Nyarla would be more "real" than Black Fog afaik. I see that the Black Fog seems to have a mimicry ability that let's it copy from Joshua who is a H1A character, so you might wanna ask someone more knowledgeable on these verse's because I know nothing about them just reading surface level stuff on their page, it's possible they have verse specific energy systems that go more in depth about these things.

 

[Qurbonboev]

By default yes, an AI is generally assumed to be immune to mind hax and by extension type 2 madness

But what about type 3 madness(drives insane just by perception)?

I think Hypnos is a pretty poor example, as Nyarla does not seem to have acaus type 5 or interaction of it on it's page, as far as I can see

It's just oversight I think. All Ultimate Gods are acaus type 5 and can interact with acaus type 5 beings(other Ultimate gods and Hypnos, who they drove mad and killed). Nyarla is one of the Ultimate Gods, their messenger, soul and mind. So true form of Nyarla should obviously have acaus 5 and interaction with acaus 5.
Avatar can show visages of Ultimate Void(exact thing that drove Hypnos insane) to group of people of Earth(and achieving same result). So Avatar too should be perfectly capable of dealing with Hypnos, and other acaus 5 beings without resistances.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

But what about type 3 madness(drives insane just by perception)?

Same thing, type 3 madness is pretty overrated on the wiki tbh. By default it typically functions the same as type 2 just without the need to interact with the opponents mind and obviously relying on cognition for activation, so characters who can resist type 2 can often times resist type 3 depending on its shown potency. Which is the actual important thing about type 3 madness, since if the potency is comparable to someone with type 2 madness (such as just causing a normal degree of fear and/or madness) then resisting it should be the same, unless a verse explicitly states it works differently or the potency is of course much higher. Can find out more on that in the limitations section.

It's just oversight I think. All Ultimate Gods are acaus type 5 and can interact with acaus type 5 beings(other Ultimate gods and Hypnos, who they drove mad and killed). Nyarla is one of the Ultimate Gods, their messenger, soul and mind. So true form of Nyarla should obviously have acaus 5 and interaction with acaus 5.
Avatar can show visages of Ultimate Void(exact thing that drove Hypnos insane) to group of people of Earth(and achieving same result). So Avatar too should be perfectly capable of dealing with Hypnos, and other acaus 5 beings without resistances.

Well if that's the case, then it should work yeah.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Well if that's the case, then it should work yeah.

Could you kindly give a thread/post where it was decided that it's worked like this, and it would work on AI? I need it for competition of strongest characters for each tier.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Could you kindly give a thread/post where it was decided that it's worked like this, and it would work on AI? I need it for competition of strongest characters for each tier.

Wdym? If what you say is true with all ultimate gods having acaus type 5 then there's nothing really to prove, as for the whole thing where madness hax works on AI you can just point out that Hypnos has no resistance on their page.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Wdym? If what you say is true with all ultimate gods having acaus type 5 then there's nothing really to prove, as for the whole thing where madness hax works on AI you can just point out that Hypnos has no resistance on their page.

You mean point out that Black fog has no resistance to it on their page?

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

You mean point out that Black fog has no resistance to it on their page?

Yeah, try and ask that cuz ffs that page is massive.

 

[Qurbonboev]

By default it typically functions the same as type 2 just without the need to interact with the opponents mind and obviously relying on cognition for activation, so characters who can resist type 2 can often times resist type 3 depending on its shown potency

Most AIs don't have minds, but they have cognition(ability to acquire, store, retrieve, transform information). So they should be immune to madness type 2, but not type 3

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Most AIs don't have minds, but they have cognition(ability to acquire, store, retrieve, transform information). So they should be immune to madness type 2, but not type 3

Assuming the type 3 madness has never been shown affecting someone or something without a mind, yeah.