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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

Had a weird discussion earlier cause I brought up Classic Sonic randomly catching up to his Modern counterpart and dealing similar damage as him to the Forces DER. Then I ended up in a discussion where the other had said that their individual attacks had the combined power of three people rather than each individual attacking the same amount of HP. Then it went to comparisons to Heroes (which I personally disagree with, Heroes is it's own situation) and the Team Blast, and then to the amp those energy shields Tails and Knuckles gain and that they weren't anywhere near Super Sonic's level which I also disagree with. Also I don't mean any hate to the person I'm talking about, they seemed pretty chill, it's just the convo went in circles and I got exhausted lmao

But yeah that made me curious, what do you all think of these super bubble things Tails and Knuckles gets in Heroes?
What's the deal with Tails and Knuckles in the last story of Heroes? Are they in super forms or not? : r/SonicTheHedgehog
 
TheStinkeer said:
Had a weird discussion earlier cause I brought up Classic Sonic randomly catching up to his Modern counterpart and dealing similar damage as him to the Forces DER. Then I ended up in a discussion where the other had said that their individual attacks had the combined power of three people rather than each individual attacking the same amount of HP. Then it went to comparisons to Heroes (which I personally disagree with, Heroes is it's own situation) and the Team Blast, and then to the amp those energy shields Tails and Knuckles gain and that they weren't anywhere near Super Sonic's level which I also disagree with. Also I don't mean any hate to the person I'm talking about, they seemed pretty chill, it's just the convo went in circles and I got exhausted lmao

But yeah that made me curious, what do you all think of these super bubble things Tails and Knuckles gets in Heroes?
What's the deal with Tails and Knuckles in the last story of Heroes? Are they in super forms or not? : r/SonicTheHedgehog's the deal with Tails and Knuckles in the last story of Heroes? Are they in super forms or not? : r/SonicTheHedgehog
Click to expand...
Super Sonic granted these "Super Shields" to Tails and Knuckles. According to a JP guide it's apparently the Hyper Mode from Sonic the Fighters. But, that's probably inaccurate given they're referred to as Super transformations in-game (and works nothing like the actual Hyper Mode... unless this is where the Chaos Emeralds' chaotic fluctuation comes into play)
 
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McFriesGuy075 said:
Super Sonic granted these "Super Shields" to Tails and Knuckles. According to a JP guide it's apparently the Hyper Mode from Sonic the Fighters. But, that's probably inaccurate given they're referred to as Super transformations in-game (and works nothing like the actual Hyper Mode... unless this is where the Chaos Emeralds' chaotic fluctuation comes into play)
Click to expand...
Whatever it is, it's pretty much just Super form with a different skin because it has the same effects Super Sonic has, consumes rings in-game, and they're referred to as "SS, ST, SK" in the games files, which while using files isn't always good proof, it gives us a better idea of what the heck is going on
 
ShakeResounding said:
The outpouring of support from you guys is... it's all very touching and truly the epitome of incredible. God I am so lucky to have y'all, you guys ******* ROCK and I love you all!
Click to expand...
We love you too bro. As much as some random nerds who mostly interact with you through shared obsession over the power of a blue Hedgehog can anyway. I can tell you have a good heart. That may seem easy to say for an Internet stranger who's never met you, but the amount of people I only talk to on online forums that I can confidently say this about can be counted on my fingers.
 
TheStinkeer said:
But yeah that made me curious, what do you all think of these super bubble things Tails and Knuckles gets in Heroes?
What's the deal with Tails and Knuckles in the last story of Heroes? Are they in super forms or not? : r/SonicTheHedgehog's the deal with Tails and Knuckles in the last story of Heroes? Are they in super forms or not? : r/SonicTheHedgehog
Click to expand...
I think they're Super forms but visually lame, which is sadly in line with non Sonic Super forms in the games.

Edit: I did forget that Super Sonic is often just cheese colored Sonic who was airdried while hanging upside down, so it's also consistent for him, too.
 
TheStinkeer said:
individual attacks had the combined power of three people rather than each individual attacking the same amount of HP
Click to expand...
That also makes me wonder, what is the opinion about teamwork/friendship amps in Sonic?

Rn I think it mainly applies to stuff like empowering/using Chaos Emeralds, team-based techniques, and Dodon Pa's vehicles and being able to gather energy of teamwork. Though Tails saying "inherent strength of teamwork" in TSR probably does put a hole in that, or maybe I was overthinking that and it doesn't put a hole in it, who knows. Either way tho I don't think it changes too much asides from the Null Space feat, which I think would still get Super Sonic an infinite speed feat
 
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McFriesGuy075 said:
Speaking of Super Forms...

Should Super Powers from Sonic Superstars be equated to granting the Invulnerability of a Super Form?

The same way those with Super Powers are stated to be superpowered, Metal Sonic using the seven Chaos Emeralds was also stated to be superpowered.
Click to expand...
Final scan doesn't work. But why just invulnerabillity and not everything else a Super form is expected to have while we're at it? Seems arbitrary, so my answer is definitely no.
 
Causalist said:
Final scan doesn't work. But why just invulnerabillity and not everything else a Super form is expected to have while we're at it? Seems arbitrary, so my answer is definitely no.
Click to expand...
Not saying its only supposed to have invulnerability, I'm asking if it should have invulnerability alongside the stat amps (which is pretty much supported by Metal blitzing the Super Peel-Out)

This is the scan btw (why doesnt wiki images work for scans here????)
 
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ZothythoTheNephalem said:
Maybe one day, we'll have REAL Super Forms for the cast and not these fake ones Sega keeps making.
Click to expand...
That bubble BS in Heroes better never return, Sega's higher ups are pretty stubborn when it comes to transformations and who gets them tho:

*They wouldn't let Ian Flynn bring back Hyper in Frontiers and instead opted for an one time hail mary Super variant.

*They wouldn't give proper Super forms to Tails, Knux and Amy in Superstars yet were willing to give the newcommer Trip an unique transformation and suspiciously have done next to nothing with her character in over two years (outside an one off comic special).

*In Maina, Super Sonic got an unique sprite and even an unique idle animation while the others got a glorified invincibility monitor.

*When characters actually get unique transformations (e.g S3&K) it's always in the classic 2D games.

*Sega likes to make one and done unique transformations in the 3D games with the intention to never bring them back (at least the mainline content): Darkspine Sonic, Excailbur Sonic, Evolved Shadow, etc.

I get Sega (certain peeps) doesn't want a transformation free-for-all but at least give some permanent buffs/power ups to the legacy characters.
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
That bubble BS in Heroes better never return, Sega's higher ups are pretty stubborn when it comes to transformations and who gets them tho:

*They wouldn't let Ian Flynn bring back Hyper in Frontiers and instead opted for an one time hail mary Super variant.

*They wouldn't give proper Super forms to Tails, Knux and Amy in Superstars yet were willing to give the newcommer Trip an unique transformation and suspiciously have done next to nothing with her character in over two years (outside an one off comic special).

*In Maina, Super Sonic got an unique sprite and even an unique idle animation while the others got a glorified invincibility monitor.

*When characters actually get unique transformations (e.g S3&K) it's always in the classic 2D games.

*Sega likes to make one and done unique transformations in the 3D games with the intention to never bring them back (at least the mainline content): Darkspine Sonic, Excailbur Sonic, Evolved Shadow, etc.

I get Sega (certain peeps) doesn't want a transformation free-for-all but at least give some permanent buffs/power ups to the legacy characters.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's just blatantly disrespectful for the characters that have been there since the beginning and it sucks how they just keep getting shafted in terms of an actual Super Form. It literally costs them nothing.
TheStinkeer said:
What I'd personally like is if they go the Trip route for the other characters asides from Sonic, Shadow, Silver, and maybe Knuckles. Make those Super forms feel a little more unique yk? It'd also help even Super Sonic stand out
Click to expand...
I think that's fine so long as they don't go too overboard. Honestly, thought a cool look for Super Knuckles would be something like this

dals7em-fa18be87-ffbb-46da-9a85-2750a59eb8c4.jpg
 
McFriesGuy075 said:
Yes, he did, which is why I'm asking if Super Powers should be considered the exact same as a Super Form.
Click to expand...
They function identically in gameplay, so I feel they should. I also don't think I agree with "Super Power" and "superpowered" being intended as the exact same thing, here. I think "Super Power" is just SEGA's way of giving non-Sonics-and-Shadows a Super form without actually committing to it, where Metal's boost just seems like a regular power boost to me.
 
Should one amplifying themselves with the Master Emerald (If they already surpass it's feats) be considered:

A general boost? (Consistent with it preventing Heavy King from reeling by attacks from Knuckles when depowered and from Mecha Sonic Mk. II overpowering Knuckles' attacks, as well as Super Neo Metal Sonic being able to overpower both S&K at the same time)

Or a far above 2x boost? (Given the Master Emerald is referred to as a "huge Chaos Emerald" in some material, which could inherit the multiplier they grant)

(honestly it doesnt make sense for it to be a 128x boost, even if its a Super Form, given thats the multiplier achieved by adding up all 7 Chaos Emeralds together, and the ME is just one)
 
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McFriesGuy075 said:
Should one amplifying themselves with the Master Emerald (If they already surpass it's feats) be considered:

A general boost? (Consistent with it preventing Heavy King from reeling by attacks from Knuckles when depowered and from Mecha Sonic Mk. II overpowering Knuckles' attacks, as well as Super Neo Metal Sonic being able to overpower both S&K at the same time)

Or a far above 2x boost? (Given the Master Emerald is referred to as a "huge Chaos Emerald" in some material, which could inherit the multiplier they grant)

(honestly it doesnt make sense for it to be a 128x boost, even if its a Super Form, given thats the multiplier achieved by adding up all 7 Chaos Emeralds together, and the ME is just one)
Click to expand...
The latter makes sense to me
 
rq for some personal scaling, does the Phantom Ruby creating Null Space actually scale anywhere in the Uni+ range due to being infinite or does it not scale anywhere due to being closed off from all dimensions and containing absolutely nothing? Been looking and saw conflicting answers
 
If you take it being of infinite/significant size via a statement from the encyclopedia of it being an endless void, it’s a uni+ feat, otherwise it’s MSS directly cuz of the forces final boss.
 
I'm wondering if by saying "the isekai isn't canon" they mean the Otherworlds aren't the regular world. I could definitely be off ofc, the poster knows their own words better than a stranger does.
 
JJSliderman said:
If you take it being of infinite/significant size via a statement from the encyclopedia of it being an endless void, it’s a uni+ feat, otherwise it’s MSS directly cuz of the forces final boss.
Click to expand...
Yeah my main confusion here is that it's an endless void which should be uni+ but is also defined as nothingness

Edit: Alr changed my perspective, it's most likely at least Uni+ tho I'd still like to hear others opinions if possible
 
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TheStinkeer said:
I'm curious, and I'm iffy on this myself just to make myself clear, but has King Shahryar ever been considered to scale Erazor Djinn, the Genies he creates/went mad and became his servants, and Sonic due to being the creator of the Arabian Nights, and being afraid of beings weaker than Erazor Djinn?

"王はアラビアンナイトの創造主この世界の中心人物です!!"
Windii translation: "The king is the creator of the Arabian Nights and the central figure of this world!"
English dub: "The king is the creator of the Arabian Nights and the main character of the story!"
Click to expand...
If this ever gets added as an extra justification to his profile, I'd suggest it could be something like "Created genies that forced King Shahryar into hiding, who is the central figure and creator of the Arabian Nights." I think it'd be a nice addition bc rn Erazor has two third-party guidebook statements
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
That bubble BS in Heroes better never return, Sega's higher ups are pretty stubborn when it comes to transformations and who gets them tho:

*They wouldn't let Ian Flynn bring back Hyper in Frontiers and instead opted for an one time hail mary Super variant.

*They wouldn't give proper Super forms to Tails, Knux and Amy in Superstars yet were willing to give the newcommer Trip an unique transformation and suspiciously have done next to nothing with her character in over two years (outside an one off comic special).

*In Maina, Super Sonic got an unique sprite and even an unique idle animation while the others got a glorified invincibility monitor.

*When characters actually get unique transformations (e.g S3&K) it's always in the classic 2D games.

*Sega likes to make one and done unique transformations in the 3D games with the intention to never bring them back (at least the mainline content): Darkspine Sonic, Excailbur Sonic, Evolved Shadow, etc.

I get Sega (certain peeps) doesn't want a transformation free-for-all but at least give some permanent buffs/power ups to the legacy characters.
Click to expand...
Just as a correction, but Super Knuckles and Super Tails always looked like that from the beginning, (Super Knuckles and Super Tails were always just a simple glow unlike Sonic who actually gets a transformation) people mistook Knuckles being pink for a few frames as an actual color change, the bubble thing is just a 3D interpretation of that-

I mean if you don't like it that's fine but you can't say they aren't being consistent cause they are.
 
BlastX said:
Just as a correction, but Super Knuckles and Super Tails always looked like that from the beginning, (Super Knuckles and Super Tails were always just a simple glow unlike Sonic who actually gets a transformation) people mistook Knuckles being pink for a few frames as an actual color change, the bubble thing is just a 3D interpretation of that-

I mean if you don't like it that's fine but you can't say they aren't being consistent cause they are.
Click to expand...
Last time I checked the first time Tails went super in a game he had a Flicky ARMY OF DEATH rather than just a simple glow, I guess you say Sega have been consistent however as long time Sonic fans we both know that hasn't always been for the betterment of the franchise but I digress.
 
Crossworlds Stuff: This is my personal experience with the game and not news if you were wondering.

I honestly expected the games alternatetive modes like time trial or race park to be half-baked but I found myself suprised by just how much I enjoyed them. Time trial for example on both Sonic Speed and Super Sonic speed has neat features like replays of your best time, a ghost of said best time to race against and a path marker to learn the track more although what suprises me was that the A-Ranks on the tracks are actually challenging. Sure I first tried a few of them but there were others where I needed over a dozen tries for an A-Rank like Dragon Road which became my personal eighth circle of hell or the Eggman Expo. Also I have no idea how anyone S-Ranks all of the tracks but frankly as much as I love the game some tracks have S-Ranks I wouldn't even attempt which really goes to show what we get when we call Sonic games "too easy" and Sonic Team takes it as a challenge. As for race park I was also suprised by the variety of options there. Not that I've played many other racing games so maybe that's normal although I was still suprised by how much I enjoyed team races, or the ring collection races (unless the AI racers were the Babylon Rogues I didn't check their setup and got bodied for it) and even the item hell simulator with the super strong item boxes.

TLDR - Grand Prix is still my favorite but the alternate modes were so much better than I expected.
 
Snek said:
Crossworlds Stuff: This is my personal experience with the game and not news if you were wondering.

I honestly expected the games alternatetive modes like time trial or race park to be half-baked but I found myself suprised by just how much I enjoyed them. Time trial for example on both Sonic Speed and Super Sonic speed has neat features like replays of your best time, a ghost of said best time to race against and a path marker to learn the track more although what suprises me was that the A-Ranks on the tracks are actually challenging. Sure I first tried a few of them but there were others where I needed over a dozen tries for an A-Rank like Dragon Road which became my personal eighth circle of hell or the Eggman Expo. Also I have no idea how anyone S-Ranks all of the tracks but frankly as much as I love the game some tracks have S-Ranks I wouldn't even attempt which really goes to show what we get when we call Sonic games "too easy" and Sonic Team takes it as a challenge. As for race park I was also suprised by the variety of options there. Not that I've played many other racing games so maybe that's normal although I was still suprised by how much I enjoyed team races, or the ring collection races (unless the AI racers were the Babylon Rogues I didn't check their setup and got bodied for it) and even the item hell simulator with the super strong item boxes.

TLDR - Grand Prix is still my favorite but the alternate modes were so much better than I expected.
Click to expand...
I do hope in the future for Race Prak, asides from adding more customization to custom matches, that the game would let you instantly skip rival interactions for the AI racers and the little "aim for first place!" that appears before the race. Race Park is the mode where I've been sinking most of my time playing this game in and it'd be nice to get right into the race

And yeah this game does not take it easy on you lmao, even the CPUs are cracked at times. I usually have the CPUs set on level 7 as that's when we're about even. Not saying it's a bad thing ofc
 
Theuser789 said:
Japanese guides are valid. They aren't like prima guides.
Click to expand...
Are you sure? I know Shogakukan has more hands-on history with Sonic but it's still not particularly "part" of SEGA from what I've seen, at least not the part that published the guide. Unless I'm missing something
 
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