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Deactivating Anti-Hypertime annihilation mechanism limiter... | Sonic Cosmology Downgrade Part ?: Hypertimelines

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Wiki does say Solaris was reverted to his base form after being defeated so my point might be moot, game doesn’t make it super clear but it does mention that Solaris’ embers were the only thing present after the fight so, maybe that’s what it’s referring to.
 
I do think Shadow Gens supports the idea of higher levels of time to some extent though, it notes that time can restore its own erased parts as long as some aspects of the timeline remain, idk if I would call that hypertime evidence though.

I think hypertime can go through if it was clear Solaris had actually finished erasing the timelines outside of end of time before he was defeated, but it’s kind of unclear.
 
Wiki does say Solaris was reverted to his base form after being defeated so my point might be moot, game doesn’t make it super clear but it does mention that Solaris’ embers were the only thing present after the fight so, maybe that’s what it’s referring to.
What wikia? This one or the Sonic Wikia? Both aren't WoG.
 
Sonic wiki, admittedly whether Solaris was reverted or not isn’t stated but reverting to his base form would fall in line with other “super states”, which Solaris is.
 
I guess the main evidence for hypertime I find viable seems to be:

-Time being able to repair itself when portions of it are erased
-Being able to return to a previous state of the universe’s time in Sonic Prime.
-Being able to return to a state when time was intact after past/present/future had been erased by Solaris.
 
Prima Guides aren't super reliable
Where was this sentiment in Sonic upgrade threads when they used prima guides?
Anyways, this is from the Sonic encyclospeedia, another source used in this wiki.
and even so, Solaris would still exist through all of time.
Because?
Wrong. He was just reduced to a flame, like Mephiles reduced to a puddle or Iblis reduced to a flame.
User, both of us know I'm talking about the Higher dimensional omnipresent deity.
Also saying he was reduced to a flame is kinda concession on your part.
 
Basically, the arguments for the thread boil down to not knowing WTF is even happening, false standards that don't even ******* exist, and then Starsprite who is the only one targeting the actual scaling points instead of anything else.

Disagree with OP, neutral on what Starsprite is doing.
 
I guess the main evidence for hypertime I find viable seems to be:

-Time being able to repair itself when portions of it are erased
-Being able to return to a previous state of the universe’s time in Sonic Prime.
-Being able to return to a state when time was intact after past/present/future had been erased by Solaris.
Of these only the last qualifies afaik. See the below bolded text:
Outside of explanations which state that multiple time dimensions exist it is difficult to show that a work of fiction has more than one. The key point that has to be established is that there is a kind of time that flows in a different direction than the past or the future or any of the spatial directions.

Things like timelines having time that passes at different rates would not qualify, as even the theory of general relativity already establishes that with just one regular time dimension time can flow at different rates in different places. Time flowing backwards in another universe would also not qualify it to have an additional time dimension, as it would still use the same directions of past and future as regular time, just with events playing out in reverse. For the same reasons, statements about independent time streams or of separate kinds of time, which could flow parallel to the original time, would not qualify.
Neither would dimensions that are timeless voids or are described as beyond spacetime in general qualify. Unless they contradict themselves, these realms should not have a time dimension at all, with change in them happening according to other principles
. If they, on the other hand, do contradict themselves, the statement of them not having regular time would inherently not be reliable, making the idea equally unusable.

Of particular consideration are instances in which timelines as a whole are changed, such that there is a timeline (or multiple timelines) before they were changed and after they were changed or created / destroyed. As the timelines as a whole are changed, the before and after in this context can't be the past and future the timelines usually use, but should be a separate direction.

However, caution is necessary. As explained above, we require that the additional time dimension is "a line comprised of uncountably infinitely many points." If new versions of timelines are only created if they are changed, due to time travel for example, then the number of "snapshots" of the timeline would be far more limited. The amount of snapshots would be one more than the times the timeline was changed. So, for example, if the timeline is rewritten 2 times, there would be 3 snapshots of the timeline: the original, the timeline after the first rewrite and the timeline after the second rewrite. That are far less than the required uncountably infinitely many.

Aside from direct statements, the easiest way to confirm that the line is comprised of uncountably infinitely many points/"snapshots" is to show that the development of the timelines is time-like. I.e. typically one would want a statement indicating that the alteration of the timelines is subject to its own flow of time, or that special time travel can go to prior versions of the timelines instead of the past. The keyword in the latter case is time travel, as that specifies that the action happens through movement through something like time. Note that such statements can be considered contradicted if the fiction specifies that new versions of the timeline, i.e. additional snapshots, are only created when the timeline is altered or similar.
One other pitfall to consider is the case of branching timelines, where one can return to a past with fewer timelines by just going back to a point in the regular past that was before the split happened. In such cases one has to decide based on context if that is meant or if a prior version where the splits also didn't exist in the regular future is meant. The former case doesn't qualify for an additional time dimension, while the latter might if it meets the other outlined criteria.
 
What is from the encyclospeedia? The previous scan you posted? The encyclopedia with several mistakes, as well? Or did you miss a link?
Yes, my friend, the same source you were fine to use to upgrade Excalibur Sonic to Low 2-C, scan for infinite speed base Sonic, Immeasurable spped Super forms and other sutff. But of course, if it's something used to downgrade (Not directly btw), it's now an encyclopedia with several mistakes, great consistency, user.
 
Yes, my friend, the same source you were fine to use to upgrade Excalibur Sonic to Low 2-C, scan for infinite speed base Sonic, Immeasurable spped Super forms and other sutff. But of course, if it's something used to downgrade (Not directly btw), it's now an encyclopedia with several mistakes, great consistency, user.
Do you have any arguments other than Whataboutism? It feels like you're just trying to throw things at a wall to make something stick. Didn't you say previously you didn't care about this thread and had better things to do?
 
Pretty much if it’s confirmed Solaris wiped out all of space time across the main Sonic multiverses besides end of time, I agree with hypertime. If he didn’t, I’d say I disagree with it.
 
Do you have any arguments other than Whataboutism?
This is not whataboutism if I'm talking about the SAME EXACT source, if it's being used in the wiki, I have every right to use it as well.

Didn't you say previously you didn't care about this thread and had better things to do?
I was talking about whatever arguments I haven't touched, that's why I haven't replied to Shake? I'm just gonna reply to anyone who replies to me (Also I can do whatever I want as long as I'm not derailing the thread).
 
Yes but Shadow restoring some parts of time means that time was able to restore itself when some parts of it existed.
no? When is this stated? If you are talking about Gerald and Tails's statements... they are talking about the events not changing even when they go back to their own time, they are not talking about anything related to White Space or the Erased space time
 
no? When is this stated? If you are talking about Gerald and Tails's statements... they are talking about the events not changing even when they go back to their own time, they are not talking about anything related to White Space or the Erased space time
Ultimately it doesn’t really matter as long as the Solaris stuff can be proven as legit hypertime:
Pretty much if it’s confirmed Solaris wiped out all of space time across the main Sonic multiverses besides end of time, I agree with hypertime. If he didn’t, I’d say I disagree with it.
 
Where was this sentiment in Sonic upgrade threads when they used prima guides?
People were saying the exact same thing then, and several supporters didn't like certain things going through regarding Prima info, so I don't appreciate the sarcasm nor bundling everybody into a neat little package for you to conveniently target any time the wiki does something with Sonic that you disagree with.
 
A hypertimeline is a higher-order temporal construct, often represented in fiction through narratives where multiple entire timelines (not just "snapshots" or branches) are treated as mutable, accessible objects. It transcends the linear continuity of past, present, and future, operating instead on an extratemporal axis where timelines themselves become "locations" on a more expansive coordinate system.

Higher-dimensional time in physical models like 2T Physics, where a second temporal dimension allows for reconfigurations of reality not bound by singular progression. Hypertime exists when characters move between wholly separate timelines without causally following one another, or when states of existence outside time influence, collapse, or restore timelines.
I'm not seeing this in the Tiering System FAQ, but more importantly, none of this actually proves the existence of an extra temporal dimension that contains an uncountably infinite amount of "snapshots," which is necessary for the higher tiering (except for the part about operating on an extratemporal axis, which is not proven in Sonic).
This is exactly what Sonic games demonstrate repeatedly.

Claiming Sonic doesn't qualify because he doesn't "hyperjump" between snapshots. Sonic literally does exactly that in Sonic CD, where he reaches light speed on his own, traverses time without chaos emeralds or external tech, and warps to eras that are causally detached. He intentionally shifts between discrete, fully-formed timelines (Bad Future, Good Future, and Past) influencing entire worldlines, not isolated events.

...

That's a state prior to existence of all space-time. M. Sonic and C. Sonic run through the absent time, restoring not events but entire structural constants of reality. They accelerate through broken spacetime and restores existence itself.
And the timeline isn't reversed, it's reinstantiated. Sonic literally rebuilds causal architecture with speed alone.

Also, about Sonic '06 and Solaris. The lad wasn't just destroying timelines, he was collapsing existence across all timeframes simultaneously. The present, future, and past all crumble.
I never claimed that "Sonic doesn't qualify because he doesn't 'hyperjump' between snapshots," it was that Sonic doesn't use "time travel" between hypersnapshots. The reason for this is that the usage of "time travel" is the sole method by which Shake's blog uses to prove that there is a "time-like" progression between events, and without it, shake has no reason to call this progression "time-like." The issue with using either of these scenarios as proof of a hypertimeline is that neither of them demonstrate a continuous, time-like progression of "hypersnapshots." Sonic simply travels from one hypersnapshot to another, which is only proof of a tiny amount of "snapshots" in comparison to the uncountably infinite amount necessary for the 6D tiering that we're giving Sonic. The tiering System actually addresses this, explaining that cases in which entire timelines undergo change may still only involve a finite number of timelines.
Hypertime: The very set of timelines {t0, t1, ..., tn} becomes itself an indexable structure (a timeline of timelines.) You are no longer within time, you are operating on time.
You could potentially argue that there is a "hypertimeline" in some sense but is not applicable for tiering, but the standard for a hypertimeline that grants higher tiering is much more strict. To justify higher tiering, this hypertimeline must not just be a set that contains timelines, but must contain an uncountably infinite number of them. "{t0, t1, ... tn} is only countably infinite. None of your examples prove this
 
The ‘06 thing I think is fine as hypertime evidence though, they specifically time traveled back to a point before Solaris wiped out “all of space-time” in order to blow out a younger version of Solaris, a version that existed prior to the boss form of Solaris (despite that version of Solaris existing along all of time), meaning they did travel to a hypersnapshot prior to the the timeline they were in.
They actually didn't. The timelines were still fractured during that time with them still needing to blow Solaris out, so there's no basis in the claim that it was an entirely different hypersnapshot.
 
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