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Same
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Superman (2025) Movie Spoiler Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dinobot1996
- Start date
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DC is so ******* back. Easy 9/10 for me.
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I think this was okay. It's a relatively good way to build an extended universe by showing other heroes already exist. They also still have a pretty important role in the plot so they're not just there to say "Hey, I exist", they have actual relevance. Though Hawkgirl was pretty useless (Gardner to to a degree but he's more memorable)
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Clark has pretty good stamina in this movie, the opening text implies his fight with the Hammer lasted for three hours, and he could fight through the Engineer’s nanites filling his lungs for a while.
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The message is an important thing indeed but I think it can be explained by the fact it's basically the only thing left from his biological parent for him. The Kent are still there so he can talk with them regulary but Jor-El and Lara and even his whole planet aren't anymore. It's understandable that he would focus on what he wishes he had and what he's missing and idolizes his biological parents based on his own ideals
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Yeah but like, this isn’t like your parents dying when you are young enough to remember. He only knows them from the single line they say. He has no reference on them anywhere else and was raised by the Kent’s since he could remember. I get what the message is supposed to be, but I’m just not sure the biological connection would really matter in anyone’s mind if they have never experienced an actual connection with them. For all intents and purposes literally none. He has a 30 second voice line saying “be good”
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How should we rate the Justice Gang? We have a few avenues I think.
If we say the Kaiju scales to Superman then if we downscale them from it then they'd be 8-B+ As well.
If we don't say the Kaiju scales to Superman then it will be 8-C based off its own feats
I'll have to read prequel novel pages again but I believe they do have Metallo scaling who has 8-C+ feats, there's some interesting stuff. In his first fight Metallo only really knocks Superman back 2 times one was a sucker puncher the other one kinda was as well since he hit Superman as he was speaking to lois sending him back again but ultimately Superman didn't have a hard time dispatching him and tanked a barrage of hits from Metallo with little difficulty. I'd personally say Metall doesn't scale to Superman in their first battle.
In their second fight Metallo is not only stronger but the kryptonite that's amping him also makes Superman ofc unable to fight properly weakening him so like Clearly not good to use for scaling Metallo either at most he could get a possibly 8-B+?
That all said the Justice Gang do downscale this amped Metallo and while he does clean them up individually pretty casually they do withstand all the punishment he throws at them so I brlieve they can at least have 8-C+ scaling from him too
If we say the Kaiju scales to Superman then if we downscale them from it then they'd be 8-B+ As well.
If we don't say the Kaiju scales to Superman then it will be 8-C based off its own feats
I'll have to read prequel novel pages again but I believe they do have Metallo scaling who has 8-C+ feats, there's some interesting stuff. In his first fight Metallo only really knocks Superman back 2 times one was a sucker puncher the other one kinda was as well since he hit Superman as he was speaking to lois sending him back again but ultimately Superman didn't have a hard time dispatching him and tanked a barrage of hits from Metallo with little difficulty. I'd personally say Metall doesn't scale to Superman in their first battle.
In their second fight Metallo is not only stronger but the kryptonite that's amping him also makes Superman ofc unable to fight properly weakening him so like Clearly not good to use for scaling Metallo either at most he could get a possibly 8-B+?
That all said the Justice Gang do downscale this amped Metallo and while he does clean them up individually pretty casually they do withstand all the punishment he throws at them so I brlieve they can at least have 8-C+ scaling from him too
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I don't even think they scale to the Kaiju if I'm honest. They only managed to kill it because Terrific blew up it's insides.
The movie also portrayed that it could break free of Guy's lantern constructs pretty easily.
Definitely not scaling to Superman either imo.
The movie also portrayed that it could break free of Guy's lantern constructs pretty easily.
Definitely not scaling to Superman either imo.
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Yeah, the JG definitely don’t scale to Clark or the Kaiju. If they have Metallo scaling in the junior novel, that should work fine.
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So then should the Kaiju scale to Superman, he does note it has a thick hide and ofc was contemplating how to deal with it which implies he couldn't just outright knock it out or anything?
That's important because we either just upscale it from Justice Gang or Scale it to Superman. If we say the Justice Gang should be 8-C+ from Metallo's scaling then that's one way it cohld work.
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Watched it a few days ago
I enjoyed it lol, felt like it was going back to the more classic days of feel good. I did enjoy the peacemaker cameo too and damn Lex was petty asf, legit he'd be the sort that just eats your lunch right in front of you, while looking at you the entire time as smug as could possibly be I loved it lmao
I enjoyed it lol, felt like it was going back to the more classic days of feel good. I did enjoy the peacemaker cameo too and damn Lex was petty asf, legit he'd be the sort that just eats your lunch right in front of you, while looking at you the entire time as smug as could possibly be I loved it lmao
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And that's the point. He has nothing from them and even his home planet except those brief 30 seconds. It's like how a lot of orphans in the real world grow attached to whatever memory they have of their biological parents even if they never knew them, except it's even stronger in this case since we're talking about a guy from an entirely different planet than the one he grew up on. There's also the pretty big detail that he's an alien with superpowers among powerless humans. We don't see it there but most adaptations dealing with Clark's backstory show him asking himself what to do with his powers and struggling to reconcile them with his human upbringing. The message seemingly telling him his biological parents essentially sacrificed themselves to save him so he could do good on another world played a big part in his choice of being a hero.
And yes, he doesn't have a connection with them since they're not there but that's part of the point. He's curious about what it would have been to live among them. That message is the ONLY thing he has from his parents, species and planet. To me, it's obvious he would care very deeply about the only thing left from them.
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Also, I just remembered, Nathan Fillion stated in two interviews that Guy Gardner can’t take on Superman, so that’s further justification for the JG not scaling, on top of Clark being stated to be the strongest metahuman.
Dinobot1996
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Wouldn't the Kaiju have High 8-C durability at minimum for withstanding the water tower getting thrown at it?
Also, is the typhoon/hurricane comparison stuff from the novel usable?
Also, is the typhoon/hurricane comparison stuff from the novel usable?
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True didn't think about that but even then though should it scale to Superman based on this?
Maybe? I Mean we don't actually have a size that we can work from but yeah its pretty blatant they say like a Supermans breath is like a typhoon but Hawkgirl and Guy both contributes their own windpower to it as well with it saying the combined forces were like a hurricane and tornado with Mr. Terrfic shooting electricity at metallo inside of it causing them all to combine into a maelstron that throws Metallo back a half mile
This all happens outside of Metropolis in a marshland so its not in the city and there's no buildings or people even visible from where they are so it can be a large thing
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I do think the kaiju should downscale Superman though because its implied he could kill it
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I could see it being a stone wall where its durability scales to Superman, although it is also worth noting that Clark wasn’t at full capacity at that point, since the robots said he was only 85% healed.
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That's fine with me, so then 8-B+ dura with 8-C AP then
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Who would it even fight
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no idea but this is an indexing wiki before anything else soooo matchups ain't really my concern with having its profile madeUh better look for some MCU goon
Dinobot1996
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At best it'd downscale, though it's not clear how much effort it would've taken Superman to stop it if he wasn't trying to stop it as humanely as possible. The calculation indicates that he was at least still willing to use High 8-C levels of force against it, though it shook that off pretty quickly.
Well, a typhoon and a hurricane seem to be pretty much the same thing, and the site considers hurricanes to be 8-A with kinetic energy.
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Sounds familiar
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I dunno, I feel like this is the worst possible / least charitable interpretation of what the movie was presenting.
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So you're thinking maybe High 8-C, possibly 8-B+ durability?
Wish we had the exact value listed on the page because if it ain't at least 400 tons then its gonna be 8-B+ still if we did go by this
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Common DCU Mister Terrific W
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But that’s because you know your parents. To Clark they aren’t even at the level of a strange, he legitimately knows nothing about them outside a single line. The planet might as well not even exist from his perspective. Which is why I always find it weird when Superman stories try to focus on krypton rather than earth. At least I think a mixture of his parents and the bio parents being what calms him down makes way more sense. I know you guys think the movie says the Kent’s shape him up before hand, but I think it’s saying he started to really onto understand after the bio parents are bad. Because he only watches their videos for comfort after the talk, says he’s a hero from the message, and talks about how he’s a human again after the speech. I think the movie is supposed to be about him realizing the true connection he has to earth, but that’s strange with him being in his 30s. Like I can see where you are coming from but I think it’s logic trying to fix a slightly illogical part of the plot that unfortunately has bigger implications to it when fully rolled out.
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Would he get to scale to the monster with equipment? I mean he completely obliterated its insides.
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That seems reasonable to me, yeah. Though it was kind of like exploiting a weakness if it's insides aren't as durable as it's skin.Would he get to scale to the monster with equipment? I mean he completely obliterated its insides.
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well no bombing its insides because they couldn't physically harm its hide which tanks the High 8-C water tower break and withstands a blow from Superman means they don't scale to its durability, we can at most calculate the size of the explosion in its insides and scale the T-Sphere explosion from thereWould he get to scale to the monster with equipment? I mean he completely obliterated its insides.
Dinobot1996
He/Him- 2,465
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- Thread starter
- #432
Something like that might be able to work.
Well, if my math is correct, dividing the 1.3x10^17 joules per day value listed on the Hurricane profile by the 86400 seconds in a day should result in 359.615105162528 tons per second. Superman was apparently outputting force comparable to a typhoon (which Metallo was slowly powering through at first) even before the others joined in.
Considering Terrific's T-Sphere's were stated to be generating "lightning", in addition to the electrical storm comparison mentioned as part of the combined attack, I don't think it seems too unreasonable to assume T-Spheres generate energy comparable to actual lightning.
The site considers the average tornado to be High 8-C to 8-B (2.1793 to 20.6321 tons).
I assume that Superman was behind the "hurricane" part of the combined attack, considering it'd be essentially the same as the "typhoon" he created on his own.
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Yeah, the original form of the character as developed by Siegel (his creator alongside Shuster) had Superman already undergo this development when he was literally a kid in Smallville as Superboy. It’s why I like the TV show, because he already figures out everything about his heritage and lineage before he even becomes Superman, and can acknowledge the faults of both Krypton and the Kents as he sees himself as a product of everything he’s experienced from both worlds. He acknowledges himself as totally unique and someone who has to forge his own path as Superman. I did like the movie otherwise though.
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I feel like the Krypton thing is dumb, honestly. It's a major poop on how Jor-El is portrayed all the time. Jor-El and Lara are supposed to every bit as righteous and kind as the Kents are, it's just that Clark never got to experience life with them, and Kal embraces his Kryptonian heritage, despite being a human first and foremost.
It's one of the reasons Brainiac and the bottled city of Kandor is such a personal story. Also stories like "For the man who has everything" (one of the best stories in DC History imo, Justice League Unlimited adapted it) where he dreams of a life on Krypton.
Im not critical of the movie itself, I haven't seen it yet, and I'm 80% sure I'm going to love the movie when I see it, but this lore tidbit is kinda bugging me. It's also something that could change as the DCU goes on, so I probably shouldn't be too harsh.
I also think it's kinda contradictory to the immigrant story stuff that they're trying to push, here. Superman is definitely a immigrant story, always been of course, but not that kind of immigrant story guess.
I think this is almost is bad as "no Clark let those kids drown" shit in MOS
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That's for the full storm production though which Idk if we can say they made the full weather formations itself there
This could work but st mist we'd take the 20.63 ton value and divide it by 4
Dinobot1996
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- Thread starter
- #437
Going by the page linked in the hurricane page, the 1.3x10^17 joules per day/359.615105162528 tons per second is just for the kinetic energy of the wind, not the cloud formation. It says that the energy of the full cloud/rain formation is 5.2 x 10^19 joules per day, which should come out to 143.84604446 kilotons per second (High 7-C)
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Ah okay I see so then going by that divided by 4 would still be 8-B+ per person well unless we don't include Mr. Terrific since its electricity he added and not wind itself like the 3 others granted that electricity is said to have made it become a maelstrom
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Man of Steel does so many things wrong to me, it's kind of hilarious. still don't see how it has such a rabid fanbase to this day
Dinobot1996
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- Thread starter
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I interpreted it as Superman contributing the majority of the power in the combined attack, which would be consistent with how he's been portrayed compared to the others.
Going by the page it happened on:
- Superman alone releases the concentrated power of a typhoon (8-A) initially
- The combined attack is compared to a "tornado (High 8-C to 8-B), a hurricane (8-A), and an electrical storm (Lightning bolts should be like 8-C)"
- So I view it as Superman being 8-A (hurricanes and typhoons are the same), Mr. Terrific possibly having 8-C T-Spheres, assuming they are comparable to lightning in terms of power output, and thus Guy Gardner and Hawkgirl each scaling to half the "tornado" part (8-C to High 8-C+ each)
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