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Dosen't sonic blitz one shot with boost + regen neg? (edit: nvm he's restricted to high-mid)

Still feel like at worst sonic smurfs her with tier 1 slop no?
 
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To be fair, physical prowess was never a factor when it comes to Makima, unless the opponent has some regen negation (soon to be layered). Plus, I like this matchup, especially after watching the video in the OP.
If you like it watch Sonic and the Black Knight. The video is inspired by it (Makima is basically a copy paste of Merlina from the game who wanted to remove death from the world, but Sonic was't a big fan of that)
 
Dosen't sonic blitz one shot with boost + regen neg?
Makima herself has reaction speed that's a hefty amount faster than her regular speed, so she's not getting blitzed by the Boost.

Sonic's regen neg is just High-Mid here so it's not powerful enough to overcome Makima's regen, still Sonic's AP might be enough to do that on its own just due to how large the AP difference is, IF his attack manages to cover Makima's whole body that is.
That and Sonic isn't really the type to kill someone on-sight
 
I feel it's funny to bring up after talking about the Black Knight, but King Arthur would say otherwise lmao
Something something he does it when necessary or something
How does that counter 8x Speed amp if they start at equal speeds?
If I recall, 40 is exactly x5 that, so yeah.
(Makima's reaction speed is x40 her regular speed)
 
Incorrect.
Since Sonic is 7.9x baseline, his spin dash is 31.6x baseline.
Doing a little bit of subtraction math... that's 23.7. She is getting the happy holidays blitz out of her.
The boost is a 7.9x multiplier above his base speed, you're talking about it being above baseline Infinite. This is a speed equalized match.
And the Spindash is a blitz above 4x.
 
Oh nice, one of my favorite characters (Sonic).

The video is cool (I've seen it before and wanted to do the fight myself, for reason I didn't, you'll see why), unfortunately, Makima gets washed no question.

Indomitable Willpower makes Sonic impossible to Conquest. I found it funny the first thing a Chainsaw Man supporter is basically "Makima conquest" when it takes one glance at Sonic's Profile to see Makima ain't doing allat.

BFR to Hell won't work. Sonic can simply run from dimension to dimension.

Makima summoning legions of devil hunters won't work. Sonic's Passive Restoration handles this. It will restore the consciousness of all the Devil Hunters and thereby stopping Makima's Conquest over them.

Bang doesn't work. Inferior LS and AP.

The Makima Stare™️ just gets ignored. Besides Sonic's Willpower will allow him to fight through it, Rings can absorb the damage (damage transferal), Sonic Heal negates the damage (bare minimum Low healing), Wisp Capsules give him various forms of Intangibility, and Sonic has passive Metaphysical Restoration.

This is not mentioning other stuff that will shut down Makima easily. Precognition alerts him of danger, Sonic's Spin Dash can unironically blitz Makima (Spin Dash blitzes people who blitzes the user in question, so it's two entire blitz gaps), Chaos Emeralds is an instant GGs. Yes, Sonic has this as Standard Equipment. Sonic can use the Chaos Emerald anytime he wants.

Makima gets killed by...literally anything Sonic does. You can pick anything on Sonic's Profile and it has a good chance of killing Makima. Any Wisps will do in permanently killing Makima past her Regeneration, no negation needed. Chaos Emeralds gaggle****s Makima. Spin Dash blitzes and pastes Makima.

As for how the fight will go? It all depends on Sonic.

First move Sonic does In-Character is close-quarters-combat. SBA means they start at 4 kilometers, which is not good for Makima. As he's running, Sonic's...literally everything (speed, strength, abilities, etc) is getting better and better. 30 seconds of fighting allowed Sonic to go from being out-matched to unironically Stomping an opponent who knows all of his moves and can infinitely combine the moves of everything Sonic's ever done + the movements of all his friends (Emerl). I'm fairly certain Makima just gets blitzed after Sonic runs 4 kilometers. Though, most of the fight relies on Sonic's in-character. He'll makes some jokes about Makima, basically taunting her (unironically she will get mad. Sonic's taunts worked on Metal Sonic, a literal robot, was angered by them). Since Makima will try to Conquest Sonic and Sonic will overcome it, he'll obviously think something's fishy about her. This will only become more apparent when Makima uses her controlled devils. I'm sure it'll end the exact same as the Dark Queen fight, and if push comes to shove and Makima doesn't give up on her goals (Sonic has SI to talk to Makima), Sonic can gaggle**** with literally anything.


I would say "Sonic For Reasons Above," but Makima gets Stomped here. This is coming from a guy who genuinely looked for a fair fight between Makima and Sonic after seeing the OP's video many months back. Sonic either gets Stomped or Stomps Makima. No in-between.
 
the boost is a 7.9x multiplier by the way.
It vastly upscales from that value btw. That's like the bare-minimum multiplier for the sake of having something on the page. The actual apparent gap would more accurately be a gap in the hundreds of times based on visual observation (But obviously you can't have multipliers on pages, but statue amps are treated as really great regardless). Boost > Spin Dash which statues people who were way faster than the user.
 
I'm not really going to delve into this matchup, but physical attacks won't work at all considering mid-high regen is at play here. Even if one of Sonic's attacks covers Makima's entire body, as long as it leaves an inch of blood she can return. I actually want to catch up with the Sonic franchise because it's been a while and I have no idea where to start. So until then I wouldn't really know what to say about this matchup yet.
 
I'm not really going to delve into this matchup, but physical attacks won't work at all considering mid-high regen is at play here. Even if one of Sonic's attacks covers Makima's entire body, as long as it leaves an inch of blood she can return. I actually want to catch up with the Sonic franchise because it's been a while and I have no idea where to start. So until then I wouldn't really know what to say about this matchup yet.
The AP gap makes it so that any serious attack from Sonic will atomize her. There won't even be blood for her to come back form. Even if for some reason Sonic couldn't do that, Wisps mess her up and the amount of stuff Sonic can do with Chaos Control is nuts. Sonic can:

  1. Negate Makima's Regeneration
  2. Alter reality to negate Makima's Contract by using Causality Manipulation to make it so that she never had the contract in the first place
  3. Alter Makima's mind and straight up force Makima to be kinder
  4. Stop Time. Gives Sonic to do literally anything.
  5. Go Super Sonic Transformation. Stomps Makima
  6. Unironically target the Concept of "Control" and destroy it or change it.
  7. Turn Makima into a human
 
Go Super Sonic Transformation. Stomps Makima
Needs 7 Emeralds to do that tbf. Only has 1 here. And several of the ability's listed here are done via Super Sonic rather than Base Sonic. Granted Base Sonic can still use win-cons with 1 Emerald like sealing or BFR.

That said, it would be cool for Super Sonic to use his positive energy to erase all the evil within Makima and change her into a good person. AKA turn her into Nayuta basically.
 
Makima herself has reaction speed that's a hefty amount faster than her regular speed, so she's not getting blitzed by the Boost.

Sonic's regen neg is just High-Mid here so it's not powerful enough to overcome Makima's regen, still Sonic's AP might be enough to do that on its own just due to how large the AP difference is, IF his attack manages to cover Makima's whole body that is.
That and Sonic isn't really the type to kill someone on-sight
Pretty sure attacks like this would do the job then

Votting sonic FRA
 
The Makima Stare™️ just gets ignored. Besides Sonic's Willpower will allow him to fight through it, Rings can absorb the damage (damage transferal), Sonic Heal negates the damage (bare minimum Low healing), Wisp Capsules give him various forms of Intangibility, and Sonic has passive Metaphysical Restoration.
Feel like you're really underselling how Ig lethal the stare is, this is a pretty thorough explanation of how really lethal it is,
GunshyFever said:
In these panels, we see the yakuza freeze mid punch, his face then followed by fountains of blood surging from his nostrils and mouth as Makima stares at him. The injury must be entirely internal and must occur high enough in the head or neck to send blood out of both the nasal passages and the oropharynx. The most accurate clinical analogue is a sudden intracranial vessel rupture, either a large intraparenchymal bleed (a type of stroke where blood leaks into the brain tissue itself).

In real world neurosurgery, a spontaneous or trauma induced intracerebral hemorrhage actually is far deadlier than a knife track that simply pierces the brain.
When an artery ruptures inside the cranial vault it releases pressurized blood into soft neural tissue that has almost nowhere to go. The expanding clot raises intracranial pressure within minutes which squashes adjacent brain structures, shuts off capillary perfusion and can force the brainstem downward in a terminal herniation cascade. Even if the initial bleed is modest, biochemical toxicity from iron, thrombin and glutamate sets off hours to days of secondary edema and cell death throughout the surrounding parenchyma.

Now we're focusing on what this causes (aka more in depth explanation), which is a subarachnoid haemorrhage. So try to picture your brain wrapped in three thin layers. Between the middle layer called the arachnoid membrane and the innermost layer that hugs the brain lies a narrow fluid filled cushion known as the subarachnoid space. That fluid called cerebrospinal fluid, acts like shock absorbing water which keeps the brain from banging against the skull. Sometimes, a blood vessel in a loop of arteries at the base of the brain develops a weak berry shaped bulge called a saccular or "berry" aneurysm. If that bulge suddenly bursts, fast moving arterial blood jets into the subarachnoid space, mixing with the cerebrospinal fluid and sharply raising the pressure inside the skull, known as intracranial pressure. People may pass out or develop trouble moving or speaking and sometimes experience seizures. Doctors call this whole event a subarachnoid hemorrhage which is a medical emergency because the rising pressure and loss of blood flow can damage the brain within minutes.

What makes Makima’s "bio stare" much deadlier than any real world subarachnoid hemorrhage is that she strips away every natural brake the human body or a trauma team normally has. In real life, the danger starts with an existing weakness. For example, a berry aneurysm has to form over years before it can burst. Makima skips that waiting period by instantaneously rupturing a vessel that was perfectly healthy seconds earlier. It's lethal because it unleashes the worst case version of a subarachnoid haemorrhage all at once and with no time for the body or doctors to fight back. When an intracranial artery tears, pressurized blood explodes into the subarachnoid space faster than cerebrospinal fluid can drain away. Pressure inside the skull skyrockets, squeezing the entire brain as if it were caught in a vice. Within seconds that pressure forces the lower part of the brain (the brainstem, the switchboard for breathing, heart rate and consciousness) downward through a fixed bony opening. It's called herniation and it cuts off the brain stem’s own blood supply and short circuits its life support, the victim stops breathing and the heart soon follows.
All in all, Willpower, Low (Lmao) regen and the likes really aren't doing anything against this.

And the Restoration like,
BWoCf7d.png

No idea exactly how him running around and freeing people trapped in time is supposed to help him against his brain popping?

The other big point is the AD, which if I understand correctly really only becomes Emerl crazy and makes Sonic grow billions of time per second when he's at a huge disadvantage, like against Emerl. Against someone he's on par with, or in this case, far above, it's not really gonna impact much.
 
It's 2-C vs 8-A. If he Boosts it's wraps because the barrier would cover her whole body.
The AP gap makes it so that any serious attack from Sonic will atomize her. There won't even be blood for her to come back form. Even if for some reason Sonic couldn't do that, Wisps mess her up and the amount of stuff Sonic can do with Chaos Control is nuts. Sonic can:

  1. Negate Makima's Regeneration
  2. Alter reality to negate Makima's Contract by using Causality Manipulation to make it so that she never had the contract in the first place
  3. Alter Makima's mind and straight up force Makima to be kinder
  4. Stop Time. Gives Sonic to do literally anything.
  5. Go Super Sonic Transformation. Stomps Makima
  6. Unironically target the Concept of "Control" and destroy it or change it.
  7. Turn Makima into a human
AP not DC, the best he could do is punch a cylindrical hole through her with his fists, kind of like the steel ball example used when discussing KE (though this isn't kinetic energy, it's just an example). So most of his physical attacks wouldn't be effective, as they'd leave body parts behind and his strongest physical strikes would just result in platters of blood.

As for Sonic’s win cons, here’s what I have to say about most of them:

1. The OP restricted the setting to High-Mid regen negation, but Makima’s regeneration here is Mid-High, so this isn’t viable.
2. That one works.
3. Makima resists this.
4. As I’ve said, I haven’t really kept up with Sonic, but doesn’t he need one of the Chaos Emeralds to do this? And here he only has one, right?
5. Same as the above.
6. I mean, you'd have to get specific, because Makima is the embodiment of the concept of Control.
7. Makima resists this too.
 
No idea exactly how him running around and freeing people trapped in time is supposed to help him against his brain popping?
They weren't trapped in time. They were erased from existence entirely (Physically, Spiritually, and Temporally). Just wanna clear that up.
AP not DC, the best he could do is punch a cylindrical hole through her with his fists, kind of like the steel ball example used when discussing KE (though this isn't kinetic energy, it's just an example). So most of his physical attacks wouldn't be effective, as they'd leave body parts behind and his strongest physical strikes would just result in platters of blood.
Sonic has the DC to blow up mountains, cities, and chains the size of small planets. Just wanna clear that up.
 
Sonic has the DC to blow up mountains, cities, and chains the size of small planets. Just wanna clear that up.
What saves Makima here is her superior reaction time, specifically her reaction speed is about 8x faster than Sonic's speed with his multiplier. If she can pull off a bio stare (her standard form of attack when she's being casual), she could steal a victory.

Also is that his DC with kinetic energy? I don't recall sonics casual punches being that strong.
 
Feel like you're really underselling how Ig lethal the stare is, this is a pretty thorough explanation of how really lethal it is,
I'm not. It's just that Sonic can ignore it.
All in all, Willpower, Low (Lmao) regen and the likes really aren't doing anything against this.
It...kinda does? When said Willpower can allow you to move despite your very life-force being sucked away? When you can power through stuff that corrodes you down to the physical and spiritual level? Makima's stare is brain damage. Gushy's comment is just an in-depth analysis of it. Sonic can power through esoteric and debilitating stuff like the Metal Virus. Brain damage isn't putting him down, because going by potency, the stuff Sonic endured beats out Makima's Biological Hax any day. Regardless, Restoration handles this.
And the Restoration like,
BWoCf7d.png

No idea exactly how him running around and freeing people trapped in time is supposed to help him against his brain popping?
Because it'll retore his body to before the brain-popping? The restoration explains how deep the restorative effects goes, and it would of course include a person's brain since the alternative unfortunate implication is that Sonic restored the bodies of his friends...without brains for some reason? The Ring's Damage Transferal handles this anyways
The other big point is the AD, which if I understand correctly really only becomes Emerl crazy and makes Sonic grow billions of time per second when he's at a huge disadvantage, like against Emerl. Against someone he's on par with, or in this case, far above, it's not really gonna impact much.
Sonic gets stronger from running lol. The stuff's passive.
Weaker version of Sonic btw
AP not DC, the best he could do is punch a cylindrical hole through her with his fists, kind of like the steel ball example used when discussing KE (though this isn't kinetic energy, it's just an example). So most of his physical attacks wouldn't be effective, as they'd leave body parts behind and his strongest physical strikes would just result in platters of blood.
I know you did not...

The energy of Sonic's 2-C punch would disperse throughout Makima's body and obliterate her. That's just how energy works.
What saves Makima here is her superior reaction time, specifically her reaction speed is about 8x faster than Sonic's speed with his multiplier. If she can pull off a bio stare (her standard form of attack when she's being casual), she could steal a victory.
No, she couldn't 😭 Sonic has passive restoration and his Rings transfer the damage to them and goes temporarily invuln. Precognition tells him the attack is coming and he amps himself to blitz. Or just does literally anything else.
 
What saves Makima here is her superior reaction time, specifically her reaction speed is about 8x faster than Sonic's speed with his multiplier. If she can pull off a bio stare (her standard form of attack when she's being casual), she could steal a victory.

Also is that his DC with kinetic energy? I don't recall sonics casual punches being that strong.
I just wanna note that Sonic's reaction speed is 4x his combat speed. His speed with spin dash and especially boost VASTLY upscale from the figures listed on the profile which are low estimates put on the page since they were the closest canon multipliers we could find. When calculated, the apparent speed amp is close to a 400x speed gap. And that's with the spin-dash which the boost upscales from.

Also yes, the DC is with Kinetic Energy or with his Shockwave/Wind generation. Sonic blew up a mountain with a normal spin attack here (Watch from the beginning tbh. It's such a good ending. And such a good song) + the chains attached to it that were comparable in size to the size of the small planet they were attached to (Which was calculated as a hundred+ kilometers or smth IIRC? or at least tens of kilometers).

Here's Sonic pulverizing a multi-kilometer wide robot that's the core of a super-city with a single shockwave from his impact:
00004.jpeg
00018.jpeg
00019.jpeg
00020.jpeg


Sonic is sort of that guy, but people underestimate his destructive capabilities. There are other examples if u want and examples of people Sonic scales to DC/AP wise IIRC.
 
1. The OP restricted the setting to High-Mid regen negation, but Makima’s regeneration here is Mid-High, so this isn’t viable.
2. That one works.
3. Makima resists this.
4. As I’ve said, I haven’t really kept up with Sonic, but doesn’t he need one of the Chaos Emeralds to do this? And here he only has one, right?
5. Same as the above.
6. I mean, you'd have to get specific, because Makima is the embodiment of the concept of Control.
7. Makima resists this too.
1. True (Granted after some changes Sonic may be given Low-Godly or High-Godly Regen negation in this key)
2. Nothing to say here
3. Unless she's resisted empathic manipulation from something as abstract as Chaos Energy which is the supersubstance of many fundamental aspects of reality such as higher dimensions and concepts, plot, information type 2, etc. it'll prolly work. But he can't use it in Base because that's a Super Sonic exclusive.
4. He has one Chaos Emerald here, so he could use it.
5. Yes, he needs 7. He doesn't need all 7 for Time Stop tho. Sonic technically has time slow without Emeralds to IIRC granted not in-character.
6. This is a Super Sonic only thing, but essentially he can physically attack and destroy the concept of a person he is attacking, making it impossible for them to come back to life. He used it against Death itself after it stated even if Sonic kills them, they can always come back because they are death itself, and the concept of death will always exist. To which Super Sonic said "lol okay," and destroyed The End beyond their ability to recover.
7. Same as 3. Chaos Energy stuff is super haxy and abstract in nature.
Sonic can power through esoteric and debilitating stuff like the Metal Virus.
Not esoteric btw. Just wanna clear this up, it's completely biological. Basically nanobots that transmute you on the molecular level, and slowly started to corrode you on the molecular level until nothing is left (Over the course of like nearly 200 years though).
Because it'll retore his body to before the brain-popping? The restoration explains how deep the restorative effects goes, and it would of course include a person's brain since the alternative unfortunate implication is that Sonic restored the bodies of his friends...without brains for some reason? The Ring's Damage Transferal handles this anyways
This restoration is weird, and while it can undo erasure, we've never really seen it regen damage. Sonic died from being shot through the chest by Mephiles. Granted his spirit lived on even without his body, and eventually got revived by the Emeralds (Which do actually have healing properties, tho I don't remember if 1 alone does). I do think Sonic could survive the bio manip but I dunno how well. You might be right about the rings being transferred the damage his body would take tho since they do take any damage he would've took from an attack. Granted Rings can be removed I think.
The energy of Sonic's 2-C punch would disperse throughout Makima's body and obliterate her. That's just how energy works.
DC can be limited to a small area even for Tier 2's. Take Goku for instance who can condense the area of effect to not even affect the building he's in. Or only destroy mountain's with his attacks. Sonic however does have feats that would show he has more than enough DC.
 
It...kinda does? When said Willpower can allow you to move despite your very life-force being sucked away? When you can power through stuff that corrodes you down to the physical and spiritual level? Makima's stare is brain damage. Gushy's comment is just an in-depth analysis of it. Sonic can power through esoteric and debilitating stuff like the Metal Virus. Brain damage isn't putting him down, because going by potency, the stuff Sonic endured beats out Makima's Biological Hax any day. Regardless, Restoration handles this.
Not really comparable? Everytime Makima has used her stare the target gets knocked out or even dies in seconds.
All the examples given for Sonic is for stuff he got a resistance to or that isn't really quantifiable?

Would you say Sonic's Willpower lets him still fight if he lost his head, it's kinda similar to that.
Because it'll retore his body to before the brain-popping? The restoration explains how deep the restorative effects goes, and it would of course include a person's brain since the alternative unfortunate implication is that Sonic restored the bodies of his friends...without brains for some reason? The Ring's Damage Transferal handles this anyways
The way you're describing the Restoration it's as if Sonic just has a bootleg version of Mid-Godly regen, which I'm like 88% sure isn't the case, considering Sonic has been injured before and Low Regen is worthy enough to be listed ya know?

Don't take my word for it, but pretty sure the consensus on that Restoration is that it's not combat-applicable.
Sonic gets stronger from running lol. The stuff's passive.

Weaker version of Sonic btw
Didn't deny that, but HOW much faster/stronger does he get?

Classic Sonic jumps to 2-C just by being near to his Modern counterpart, and never does so when facing the dozens of bosses in his games.
Hell, Modern Sonic doesn't take a step and go from struggling against, say Zavok to one-shotting him, or his countless other foes who don't have AD lol

Again, pretty sure the consensus on the AD is that it's really only important when he's at a major disadvantage.
Why is OP counting votes in a Stomp match?
I'm arguing that it's not a stomp? Like these arguments aren't cause I think Makima wins or whatever, but cause it ain't a stomp lol
 
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