Clover encounters FRIEND INSIDE ME - Clover VS Pete n VB (STOMP)

[Diamond_Drone]

Battle Specifcations:

• Speed is equalized (Pete's Supersonic is equalized to Clover's Transonic)
• Clover is in their Genocide key, so that their revival mechanic is entirely reliant on themselves and not on some outside force (Flowey)
• Battle takes place in Pete's old set, both of them are 15m apart from eachother
• Clover has the Trashcan Lid and their Standard Equipment, except for Flowey and Asgore's SOUL (Why is this in his standard equipment?)

The Votes:
"There's just one little difference when it comes to our actions... MINE MATTERS.": 0 (None)

Attack Potency/Dura: 0.44 Tons of TNT​

Lifting Strength: >164.8 Metric Tons​

"(The end lies beyond.) (Let justice be done.)": 0 (None)

Attack Potency/Dura: >>0.31 Tons of TNT​

Lifting Strength: >>98.15 Metric Tons​

Asgore takes a cruise down Pete's set (Incon): 0 (None)

 

[Diamond_Drone]

uhhh, bump?

 

[HonestlyBored24]

Clover is in their Genocide key, so that their revival mechanic is entirely reliant on themselves and not on some outside force (Flowey)

So how the hell is Pete supposed to win then

 

[Diamond_Drone]

So how the hell is Pete supposed to win then

Killing Clover enough times to make them give up like the seven humans in canon Undertale before his own ammunition runs out, which should be somewhat easy with the Green Soul attacks as UTY's version of that relies on the projectiles being significantly slower than Clover to avoid, though Clover should be able to parry using their bullets. Pete could also get really angry and forcibly pull Clover's Soul out for his final attack, which was shown to instantly weaken and near-instantly kill them in the Pacifist Route when they did the same willingly, though I guess that depends if Clover can upset Pete enough for him to do that.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Killing Clover enough times to make them give up like the seven humans in canon Undertale before his own ammunition runs out, which should be somewhat easy with the Green Soul attacks as UTY's version of that relies on the projectiles being significantly slower than Clover to avoid.

Don't see that happening when this Clover is several one-shots above their value, has like a bajillion speed amps and can constantly heal with their ACTs.
On top of that, Pete’s attack speed is legit below his combat speed, so like.

Also don't really get the comparison with the Zenith Martlet attacks, most of their difficulty comes with how durable those stars are, not being able to manually change directions, and and the fact that destroying them causes them to duplicate and speed up significantly, which Pete's attacks don't do.

Even forcibly pulling out Clover’s SOUL isn't going to work since, if they have their Class M LS here they can overpower the attempt outright, and if not and Clover is killed, they can just LOAD and avoid the strings the next time. Problem with SAVE/LOAD characters is that if they can win a fight, it basically becomes a guarantee.

 

[Diamond_Drone]

Don't see that happening when this Clover is several one-shots above their value, has like a bajillion speed amps and can constantly heal with their ACTs.
On top of that, Pete’s attack speed is legit below his combat speed, so like.

Fair, but I will say that Pete's attack speed is not overwhelmingly slow and that Clover doesn't have an overwhelming amount of speed amps (it's 3.7x when dashing with the speed points, still pretty decent) considering fights like Zenith and Ceroba are quite difficult even if they have them. I should also note that "Cowboy" Pete is merely a vessel for the Voice Box that controls from inside and the Voice Box is capable of withstanding hits from Kris' parry without any notable damage which should make him somewhat capable of fighting Clover and be able to take a hit by using his Vessel to block hits for him.

Also tbh I only really find the Trash Lid one-shot legit, the Asgore one is notable but it assumes that he is stronger than the Trash Lid even though Asgore cannot be fought after beating Axis in Geno and if you abort Asgore is definirely stronger but by an unclear and survivivable amount as Clover can still take a few hits before going down. Zenith Martlet is questionable, but I think the intent was for Zenith to be stronger than Asgore given the text and presentation even if it isn't reflected in the stats.

Also don't really get the comparison with the Zenith Martlet attacks, most of their difficulty comes with how durable those stars are, not being able to manually change directions, and and the fact that destroying them causes them to duplicate and speed up significantly, which Pete's attacks don't do.

Zenith Martlets stars are more durable, but they are significantly slower and there are generally way fewer of them than what Pete spams. Also I forgot to mention the no manual direction change thing, but it is something to note as Clover wouldn't really be able to deal with attacks from every angle.

Even forcibly pulling out Clover’s SOUL isn't going to work since, if they have their Class M LS here they can overpower the attempt outright, and if not and Clover is killed, they can just LOAD and avoid the strings the next time. Problem with SAVE/LOAD characters is that if they can win a fight, it basically becomes a guarantee.

Well first, Pete is stronger in LS as Clover only scales to the block of titanium in this fight and Pete can restrain 3 Heroes that scale way above 100 Tons. Second, I don't think Clover would be able to use the SAVE & LOAD while their Soul is forcefully torn out, especially if they die.

Flowey was capable of using the SAVE & LOADS because his body was injected with absurd amounts of determination, but that determination originates in the Human SOUL and not the bodies of humans IIRC and Clover has shown to be weakened when they don't have their soul inside of them (which is surprisingly similar to Kris in actual Deltarune... except for the "dying in literal seconds" part). So the only way for them to use those abilities would be if the Player was with them, which I don't think is accepted in their profile.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Also tbh I only really find the Trash Lid one-shot legit, the Asgore one is notable but it assumes that he is stronger than the Trash Lid even though Asgore cannot be fought after beating Axis in Geno and if you abort Asgore is definirely stronger but by an unclear and survivivable amount as Clover can still take a few hits before going down. Zenith Martlet is questionable, but I think the intent was for Zenith to be stronger than Asgore given the text and presentation even if it isn't reflected in the stats.

Yeah, I’m not really sold on the whole Asgore > Zenith Martlet upscaling either.
Although UTY does seem to lean more toward the interpretation that Flowey simply can’t defeat Asgore, rather than just never getting him to reveal the SOULs, since ya know Clover just gets them without issue once they kill Asgore. And Flowey can one-shot an Aborted Geno Clover... But that’s an entirely separate scaling chain that doesn’t include the Trash Lid, sorta the main pillar of the current chain, so ehhh

That said, it’s worth pointing out that the 8-C upscaling is actually even bigger than the 8-B one. 8-B starts with Ceroba but the 8-C one begins with AXIS, so there’s an entire one-shot gap stacked on top of the preexisting chain via Ceroba being completely unaffected by any of Pacifist Clover’s attacks and one-shotting both Martlet and Starlo, who are only slightly inferior to AXIS.

Zenith Martlets stars are more durable, but they are significantly slower and there are generally way fewer of them than what Pete spams. Also I forgot to mention the no manual direction change thing, but it is something to note as Clover wouldn't really be able to deal with attacks from every angle.

Still, they're definitely up there as some of Zenith Martlet's slowest attacks, her other attacks are a fair bit faster faster than Clover themself most of the times, unlike Pete's here.
And it's not like Clover never faced Multi-Directional Danmaku before, hell some of her attacks directly appear on top of Clover.

Second, I don't think Clover would be able to use the SAVE & LOAD while their Soul is forcefully torn out, especially if they die.

I'm 99% sure their SOUL contains their consciousness, in the Flowey fight Clover was already dead and their SOUL was doing all the fighting and in the Photoshop Flowey fight the other kids are able to take control of the SAVE File just as SOULs, so it makes sense that Clover’s SOUL would be able to perform a LOAD on its own.

Like Clover can LOAD back after dying, as in when their body is already gone, so don't think it's that different.

 

[Diamond_Drone]

Yeah, I’m not really sold on the whole Asgore > Zenith Martlet upscaling either.
Although UTY does seem to lean more toward the interpretation that Flowey simply can’t defeat Asgore, rather than just never getting him to reveal the SOULs, since ya know Clover just gets them without issue once they kill Asgore. And Flowey can one-shot an Aborted Geno Clover... But that’s an entirely separate scaling chain that doesn’t include the Trash Lid, sorta the main pillar of the current chain, so ehhh

That said, it’s worth pointing out that the 8-C upscaling is actually even bigger than the 8-B one. 8-B starts with Ceroba but the 8-C one begins with AXIS, so there’s an entire one-shot gap stacked on top of the preexisting chain via Ceroba being completely unaffected by any of Pacifist Clover’s attacks and one-shotting both Martlet and Starlo, who are only slightly inferior to AXIS.

Yeah I feel UTY scaling needs some reworking, currently it seems kinda messy to me. Pretty sure AXIS has a decent feat in Neutral Route that should get above 8-C with ISL, I could try calcing that to see if I get any decent results. Right now it seems that Clover is probably several one-shots above Pete even at 8-C scaling, so point towards Clover.

I'm 99% sure their SOUL contains their consciousness, in the Flowey fight Clover was already dead and their SOUL was doing all the fighting and in the Photoshop Flowey fight the other kids are able to take control of the SAVE File just as SOULs, so it makes sense that Clover’s SOUL would be able to perform a LOAD on its own.

Like Clover can LOAD back after dying, as in when their body is already gone, so don't think it's that different.

Yeah that stuff does happen, but there's also Flowey talking to Clover as they're dying in the Pacifist ending and then it ends with Frisk calling for help with Clover responding... as the soul, so maybe the consciousness moves to the SOUL after death in a comatose state? Though that then leaves us with the Neutral Ending where it shows that Clover is capable of resisting a higher Determination user even after death to a notable enough degree to annoy them, so maybe they are conscious and awake as a SOUL immediately after death but become comatose later if they give up?

Though, I guess if there aren't any other Determination Users here, I guess Clover could LOAD a SAVE even as a SOUL (very normal typing quirk here, folks), so I'll just declare this a stomp I guess. Wow, there aren't any good UT vs DR matches, even in fanon, is there?