Elden Ring: Endgame LS Upgrades, Demigod Additions, and a Radahn Fix

[AceOfSpaces3709]

After completing Elden Ring a month ago, I had a look at some of the profiles noticed some of them are a bit outdated, especially the God-Tier/Endgame characters. Many of their tier ratings were outdated as some were listed as 7-A (Upscaling from this) and some were listed as High 6-B (Upscaling from this). For the next few days, I updated the ratings, but I noticed something else was outdated. It was the Lifting Strength of many of these characters, which are in dire need of an update.

Lifting Strength Upgrade for all Endgame Characters
Nearly a year ago, Qawsedf234 did a calculation for the Fire Giant, which yielded a Class M result. The Fire Giant is the first Endgame boss we face, and according to Iron Fist Alexander, who can be summoned for the fight, stated that The Fire Giant's strength was practically equal to a God's. This is an insane statement as the Fire Giants possessed immense strength that only Godfrey could match, despite them being a mortal race. Alexander also participated in the fight against Radahn and witnessed his death (Alongside Blaidd). The fact Alex holds the Giant's Strength in such high regard, suggests that he believes the Giant to be far stronger than all the Demigods. This calculation has been accepted for three months, and I think it should be applied to every character encountered in the Endgame. This upgrade will affect the following profiles...

• Shabriri (He can be summoned to fight Godfrey)
• Maliketh, the Black Blade (He is an entire step above all Demigods and killed the Gloam-Eyed Queen, an Empreyean; special Demigods that have the potential to reach full godhood)
• Sir Gideon Ofnir (Was confident that he could beat the Tarnished, despite his knowledge of them killing Malekith and all the Demigods)
• Godfrey, the First Elden Lord (The name speaks for itself. He also killed numerous Fire Giants while in a suppressed state, which I mentioned earlier)
• Radagon of the Golden Order (He was the second Elden Lord and shares a body with Marika and wields her hammer, the same weapon that shattered the Elden Ring, which is also the Elden Beast)
• Queen Marika, the Eternal (Same reasoning for Radagon. She was the one who shattered the Elden Ring)
• Rennala, Queen of the Full Moon (Stalemated Radagon in her prime)
• The Elden Beast (Is the physical embodiment of both order and the Elden Ring. It was also the one responsible for imprisoning Marika/Radagon within the Erdtree)
• Miquella, the Light (Is an Empreyean who managed to ascend to godhood, succeeding his parents, Marika and Radagon)
• Promised Consort Radahn (Was resurrected by Miquella and given the title of Lord, making him comparable to the likes of Godfrey and Radagon)

Instead of At least Class K, their LS ratings should be replaced with something like this...

At least Class M (Should be far stronger than the Fire Giant, who can swing its plate with this much force)

One big addition and possible resistance to all Demigods
Hidetaka Miyazaki, the director and co-creator of Elden Ring sat down for an interview with Gameranx all the way back in 2022. He was asked if the Demigods, like the Tarnished, gained immortality from the Guidance of Grace. This is what he said...

''No that’s different. I don’t think this is the right time to talk about these details, but the immortality of the demigods is associated with the removal of fate’s death from the Elden Ring. At the moment you won’t know what I’m talking about but as you play the game this should become clearer.''

As narrated by Ranni, in the story trailer, The Rune of Death was stolen one night from Maliketh. According to Enia, a Finger Reader and interpreter of the Two Fingers, she reveals this about the Rune...

''The Rune of Death goes by two names; the other is Destined Death. The forbidden shadow, plucked from the Golden Order upon its creation...''

After this rune was stolen, Fia the Deathbed Companion creates a new rune known as ''Mending Rune of the Death-Prince'', here is it's official description...

''Rune gestated by Fia, the Deathbed Companion.
Used to restore the fractured Elden Ring when brandished by the Elden Lord.
Formed of the two hallowbrand half-wheels combined, it will embed the principle of life within Death into Order.
The Golden Order was created by confining Destined Death. Thus, this new Order will be one of Death restored.''

As it states, it was made to be mended into the shattered Elden Ring so that it would restore death to the Lands Between and replace Malekith's Destined Death.

If we combined all three statements, we get the following explanation. When the Rune of Death was stolen from the Elden Ring and sealed away, it removed the fated ends of all the Demigods.

So I propose that Immortality (Types: 1 & 5) be applied to all of the Demigod's profiles. I mean, if Miquella can have this ability on his profile, why not all his siblings? I also want to propose a resistance that all Demigods should have on their profiles. I think they should all get Resistance to Fate Manipulation because as Miyazaki stated earlier, all Demigods have had their fated deaths removed after The Rune of Death was stolen and sealed away.

Besides Miquella, these additions will apply to...

• Morgott, the Omen King
• Mohg, Lord of Blood
• Rykard, Lord of Blasphemy
• Starscourge Radahn
• Malenia, Blade of Miquella (Malenia should also get Type 4 Immortality, due to her ability to resurrect herself overtime with the Scarlet Aeonia)
• Godrick, the Grafted
• Messmer the Impaler
• Melina (While not confirmed, it is heavily speculated that Melina is a Demigoddess, given her connections to the Marika and the Erdtree, along with popular theories that she was the Gloam-Eyed Queen)

Minor Fix to Promised Consort Radahn
Now for a simple change to Starscourge Radahn's profile, specifically his Promised Consort key. As I stated at the beginning of this CRT. The 7-A rating should be Hakai'd from all top-tier characters. Considering Radahn was resurrected to be a Lord by Miquella, his 7-A rating should removed and fully replaced by the High 6-B rating. I admit, I haven't played the Shadow of the Erdtree nor does it peak my interest (I'm completely exhausted from my playthrough of the main game), but watching the boss fight, Radahn appears to get a boost in power after Miquella appears and clings to him like a cape. I see this as no different to Godfrey getting an amp in power after becoming Hoarah Loux. So I propose that Promised Radahn's Rating gets changed from this.

At least 7-A, High 6-B with Miquella's light, likely 4-A

At least Mountain level, Large Country level with Miquella's light (Created an extremely bright light during his meteor attack), likely Multi-Solar System level (Is at his peak physical health and prowess upon his resurrection. As a lord, he should be relative to the likes of Godfrey, First Elden Lord and Radagon of the Golden Order. Likely empowered by Miquella's light and Mohg's accursed blood)

to something like this...

At least High 6-B, likely 4-A, higher with Miquella's Light

At least Large Country level (By using Mohg's corpse as a vessel, Miquella was able to resurrect Radahn and has return him to his peak health and prowess. As Miquella's lord consort, he should be relative to to the likes of Godfrey, First Elden Lord and Radagon of the Golden Order), likely Multi-Solar System level, higher with Miquella's Light (Created an extremely bright light after being empowered Miquella)

So, what do you all think?

Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[Qawsedf234]

I'm fine with all the suggested changes, though we may need to talk more in-depth about Radahn since Miquella did amp him in some capacity. But the current justification doesn’t make sense logically, as the Tarnished and his crew went from fighting Radahn to fighting Radahn + Miquella, so unless they one tapped him or have AD, it wouldn't make sense for them to suddenly become hundreds of times stronger.

As a note for Marika, her justification should be that she killed the God of the Fire Giants in combat so she should also scale above the Last Fire Giant. While not explicitly stated, it is implied that Radagon and Messmer also fought the Fire Giants but that is admittedly guess work/not explicitly stated.

 

[Chritin]

So I have a fair bit to say (most of which are agreements), but I will say I’ve had a calc in the work for a while for Rykard’s lifting strength that might put the verse into high Class M low Class G territory.

 

[Chritin]

After completing Elden Ring a month ago, I had a look at some of the profiles noticed some of them are a bit outdated, especially the God-Tier/Endgame characters. Many of their tier ratings were outdated as some were listed as 7-A (Upscaling from this) and some were listed as High 6-B (Upscaling from this). For the next few days, I updated the ratings, but I noticed something else was outdated. It was the Lifting Strength of many of these characters, which are in dire need of an update.

Lifting Strength Upgrade for all Endgame Characters
Nearly a year ago, Qawsedf234 did a calculation for the Fire Giant, which yielded a Class M result. The Fire Giant is the first Endgame boss we face, and according to Iron Fist Alexander, who can be summoned for the fight, stated that The Fire Giant's strength was practically equal to a God's. This is an insane statement as the Fire Giants possessed immense strength that only Godfrey could match, despite them being a mortal race. Alexander also participated in the fight against Radahn and witnessed his death (Alongside Blaidd). The fact Alex holds the Giant's Strength in such high regard, suggests that he believes the Giant to be far stronger than all the Demigods. This calculation has been accepted for three months, and I think it should be applied to every character encountered in the Endgame. This upgrade will affect the following profiles...

• Shabriri (He can be summoned to fight Godfrey)
• Maliketh, the Black Blade (He is an entire step above all Demigods and killed the Gloam-Eyed Queen, an Empreyean; special Demigods that have the potential to reach full godhood)
• Sir Gideon Ofnir (Was confident that he could beat the Tarnished, despite his knowledge of them killing Malekith and all the Demigods)
• Godfrey, the First Elden Lord (The name speaks for itself. He also killed numerous Fire Giants while in a suppressed state, which I mentioned earlier)
• Radagon of the Golden Order (He was the second Elden Lord and shares a body with Marika and wields her hammer, the same weapon that shattered the Elden Ring, which is also the Elden Beast)
• Queen Marika, the Eternal (Same reasoning for Radagon. She was the one who shattered the Elden Ring)
• Rennala, Queen of the Full Moon (Stalemated Radagon in her prime)
• The Elden Beast (Is the physical embodiment of both order and the Elden Ring. It was also the one responsible for imprisoning Marika/Radagon within the Erdtree)
• Miquella, the Light (Is an Empreyean who managed to ascend to godhood, succeeding his parents, Marika and Radagon)
• Promised Consort Radahn (Was resurrected by Miquella and given the title of Lord, making him comparable to the likes of Godfrey and Radagon)

Instead of At least Class K, their LS ratings should be replaced with something like this...

At least Class M (Should be far stronger than the Fire Giant, who can swing its plate with this much force)

Agree with all of this. It should also be noted that I think its possible to parry, or at least block this attack in some way. I'm not sure though, and I don't have any way to test this. But, I'm pretty sure there are builds out there where you can fully face tank an attack like this.

One big addition and possible resistance to all Demigods
Hidetaka Miyazaki, the director and co-creator of Elden Ring sat down for an interview with Gameranx all the way back in 2022. He was asked if the Demigods, like the Tarnished, gained immortality from the Guidance of Grace. This is what he said...

''No that’s different. I don’t think this is the right time to talk about these details, but the immortality of the demigods is associated with the removal of fate’s death from the Elden Ring. At the moment you won’t know what I’m talking about but as you play the game this should become clearer.''

As narrated by Ranni, in the story trailer, The Rune of Death was stolen one night from Maliketh. According to Enia, a Finger Reader and interpreter of the Two Fingers, she reveals this about the Rune...

''The Rune of Death goes by two names; the other is Destined Death. The forbidden shadow, plucked from the Golden Order upon its creation...''

After this rune was stolen, Fia the Deathbed Companion creates a new rune known as ''Mending Rune of the Death-Prince'', here is it's official description...

''Rune gestated by Fia, the Deathbed Companion.
Used to restore the fractured Elden Ring when brandished by the Elden Lord.
Formed of the two hallowbrand half-wheels combined, it will embed the principle of life within Death into Order.
The Golden Order was created by confining Destined Death. Thus, this new Order will be one of Death restored.''

As it states, it was made to be mended into the shattered Elden Ring so that it would restore death to the Lands Between and replace Malekith's Destined Death.

If we combined all three statements, we get the following explanation. When the Rune of Death was stolen from the Elden Ring and sealed away, it removed the fated ends of all the Demigods.

So I propose that Immortality (Types: 1 & 5) be applied to all of the Demigod's profiles. I mean, if Miquella can have this ability on his profile, why not all his siblings? I also want to propose a resistance that all Demigods should have on their profiles. I think they should all get Resistance to Fate Manipulation because as Miyazaki stated earlier, all Demigods have had their fated deaths removed after The Rune of Death was stolen and sealed away.

Besides Miquella, these additions will apply to...

• Morgott, the Omen King
• Mohg, Lord of Blood
• Rykard, Lord of Blasphemy
• Starscourge Radahn
• Malenia, Blade of Miquella (Malenia should also get Type 4 Immortality, due to her ability to resurrect herself overtime with the Scarlet Aeonia)
• Godrick, the Grafted
• Messmer the Impaler
• Melina (While not confirmed, it is heavily speculated that Melina is a Demigoddess, given her connections to the Marika and the Erdtree, along with popular theories that she was the Gloam-Eyed Queen)

Agreed. I think it's worthy to deliberate about the removal of their fated deaths, but I will also note that fate being connected to runes is also represented with Miquella's ability to remove themself from the chain of causality and their fate by discarding their own great rune. Also, before I probably wouldn't have put Melina, but with what we learn in the DLC it's heavily implied she is Messmer's sister.

Finally, some of the demigods have their own forms of immortality, such as Rykard and Malenia's ressurective immortality, Radahn likely having type 2 by having his entire body rotted, etc. I wanted to go through all of them at some point, but I'll save that for a later point.

Minor Fix to Promised Consort Radahn
Now for a simple change to Starscourge Radahn's profile, specifically his Promised Consort key. As I stated at the beginning of this CRT. The 7-A rating should be Hakai'd from all top-tier characters. Considering Radahn was resurrected to be a Lord by Miquella, his 7-A rating should removed and fully replaced by the High 6-B rating. I admit, I haven't played the Shadow of the Erdtree nor does it peak my interest (I'm completely exhausted from my playthrough of the main game), but watching the boss fight, Radahn appears to get a boost in power after Miquella appears and clings to him like a cape. I see this as no different to Godfrey getting an amp in power after becoming Hoarah Loux. So I propose that Promised Radahn's Rating gets changed from this.

At least 7-A, High 6-B with Miquella's light, likely 4-A

At least Mountain level, Large Country level with Miquella's light (Created an extremely bright light during his meteor attack), likely Multi-Solar System level (Is at his peak physical health and prowess upon his resurrection. As a lord, he should be relative to the likes of Godfrey, First Elden Lord and Radagon of the Golden Order. Likely empowered by Miquella's light and Mohg's accursed blood)

to something like this...

At least High 6-B, likely 4-A, higher with Miquella's Light

At least Large Country level (By using Mohg's corpse as a vessel, Miquella was able to resurrect Radahn and has return him to his peak health and prowess. As Miquella's lord consort, he should be relative to to the likes of Godfrey, First Elden Lord and Radagon of the Golden Order), likely Multi-Solar System level, higher with Miquella's Light (Created an extremely bright light after being empowered Miquella)

So, what do you all think?

Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:

I disagree with this. Consort Radahn in his base form is scaled to other lords who are 7-A, likely 4-A (I should note that this 7-A is actually currently the calc for the Fire Giant's flame burning the Erdtree, but I plan for this to be further upgraded to be them at least scaling to the Storm Beyond Time and Placidusax, but I'm still waiting for that to get accepted). The High 6-B feat is attributed to Miquella's light and more specifically is a feat only applying to the other gods in the verse (Marika, Elden Beast, etc.).

TL;DR, Radahn does scale above the other demigods (even though he's the same tier) based on becoming a lord, but only achieves god levels of power with Miquella's light.

So yeah, I agree to the first two but not the last bit. Also, I should note I want to do a comprehensive CRT at some point, but there are A LOT of calcs I want to get done or redo before I go into remaking things.

 

[Chritin]

I'm fine with all the suggested changes, though we may need to talk more in-depth about Radahn since Miquella did amp him in some capacity. But the current justification doesn’t make sense logically, as the Tarnished and his crew went from fighting Radahn to fighting Radahn + Miquella, so unless they one tapped him or have AD, it wouldn't make sense for them to suddenly become hundreds of times stronger.

As a note for Marika, her justification should be that she killed the God of the Fire Giants in combat so she should also scale above the Last Fire Giant. While not explicitly stated, it is implied that Radagon and Messmer also fought the Fire Giants but that is admittedly guess work/not explicitly stated.

It is strange, but the idea is just that the Tarnished is already strong enough at that point to beat Radahn pretty handily (especially when considering Scadutree fragments which boost them beyond their regular capabilities).

 

[Qawsedf234]

It is strange, but the idea is just that the Tarnished is already strong enough at that point to beat Radahn pretty handily (especially when considering Scadutree fragments which boost them beyond their regular capabilities).

The issue is Radahn more so than the Tarnished. If the Tarnished can block/withstand attacked from a Miquella boosted Radahn, then it means they're scaling to Radahn's High 6-B showing. But that means the Tarnished is also High 6-B during that fight, which means that pre-Miquella Radahn fought and withstood hits from that same Tarnished.

He'd downscale from High 6-B, since he needed to be boosted to get there, but he'd still have to be High 6-B in our system for the same reason why MCU Iron Man downscales from giving Thanos an incredibly minor cheek wound.

 

[Chritin]

The issue is Radahn more so than the Tarnished. If the Tarnished can block/withstand attacked from a Miquella boosted Radahn, then it means they're scaling to Radahn's High 6-B showing. But that means the Tarnished is also High 6-B during that fight, which means that pre-Miquella Radahn fought and withstood hits from that same Tarnished.

He'd downscale from High 6-B, since he needed to be boosted to get there, but he'd still have to be High 6-B in our system for the same reason why MCU Iron Man downscales from giving Thanos an incredibly minor cheek wound.

If that's the case then I think that makes sense. It's just incredibly weird and I would like to avoid the pipeline of then scaling ALL lords to the gods when we know for a fact that there is a sizeable gap between them.

 

[Qawsedf234]

If that's the case then I think that makes sense. It's just incredibly weird and I would like to avoid the pipeline of then scaling ALL lords to the gods when we know for a fact that there is a sizeable gap between them.

It'd basically be either this:

• Consort Radahn = 170+ Teratons (High 6-B)
• Miquella + Radahn = 340 Teratons
• Placidusax ~ Bayle ~ Markia ~ Godfrey ~ Radagon ~ Maliketh ~ etc. = >340 Teratons
• Prime Placidusax ~ Prime Bayle ~ Elden Beast = >>340 Teratons

Or this

• Radahn = <340 Teratons
• Miquella ~ Placidusax ~ Bayle ~ Markia ~ Godfrey ~ Radagon ~ Maliketh ~ etc. = 340 Teratons
• Prime Placidusax ~ Prime Bayle ~ Elden Beast = >340 Teratons

For Elden John, you have the following:

• EoSTOE Tarnished + Thiollier + Sir Ansbach >~ Radahn + Miquella (So they'd downscale from High 6-B in some fashion)
• EoSTOE Tarnished + Alexander >~ Fire Giant when channeling the Fell God = Gods like Marika/Miquella (Again, they'd downscale from High 6-B in some fashion)
• Farum Azula Tarnished + Post-Rykard Berhnal >~ Godskin Duo
• Farum Azula Tarnish after beating Berhnal fights the following solo (At this point Tarnished would fully scale to High 6-B
  • Placidusax
  • Gideon
  • Maliketh
• Then, against Godfrey you have at most Shabriri and Nepheli
• You fight Radagon and the Elden Beast solo (At this point, you'd scale above most Gods/Lords in strength as you 1 vs 1 the Elden Beast)

We know that canon wise more runes = more power. So the Tarnished probably doesn't reach solo God strength lore-wise until they fight Berhnal and absorb his power. After that they're equal to a God in strength and then right after they absorb Godfrey and Gideon's strength, which puts them above the Elden Beast.

 

[Chritin]

It'd basically be either this:

• Consort Radahn = 170+ Teratons (High 6-B)
• Miquella + Radahn = 340 Teratons
• Placidusax ~ Bayle ~ Markia ~ Godfrey ~ Radagon ~ Maliketh ~ etc. = >340 Teratons
• Prime Placidusax ~ Prime Bayle ~ Elden Beast = >>340 Teratons

Or this

• Radahn = <340 Teratons
• Miquella ~ Placidusax ~ Bayle ~ Markia ~ Godfrey ~ Radagon ~ Maliketh ~ etc. = 340 Teratons
• Prime Placidusax ~ Prime Bayle ~ Elden Beast = >340 Teratons

For Elden John, you have the following:

• EoSTOE Tarnished + Thiollier + Sir Ansbach >~ Radahn + Miquella (So they'd downscale from High 6-B in some fashion)
• EoSTOE Tarnished + Alexander >~ Fire Giant when channeling the Fell God = Gods like Marika/Miquella (Again, they'd downscale from High 6-B in some fashion)
• Farum Azula Tarnished + Post-Rykard Berhnal >~ Godskin Duo
• Farum Azula Tarnish after beating Berhnal fights the following solo (At this point Tarnished would fully scale to High 6-B
  • Placidusax
  • Gideon
  • Maliketh
• Then, against Godfrey you have at most Shabriri and Nepheli
• You fight Radagon and the Elden Beast solo (At this point, you'd scale above most Gods/Lords in strength as you 1 vs 1 the Elden Beast)

We know that canon wise more runes = more power. So the Tarnished probably doesn't reach solo God strength lore-wise until they fight Berhnal and absorb his power. After that they're equal to a God in strength and then right after they absorb Godfrey and Gideon's strength, which puts them above the Elden Beast.

Tbh, this is exactly what I was worried about saying. The other Elden Lords realistically should not scale to High 6-B, and if they do they should be like Radahn where they downscale to 170 Teratons. I esepcially don't get why prime Placidusax/Bayle specifically would upscale so much, since yeah they are stronger, but double scaling above a feat that are attributed to gods stronger than them doesn't seem right to me.

When it comes to other characters, I think the whole "Fire Giant" being a god thing is meant to be based on the presence of the Fell God in its body. We know that the Fell God is dead, and only exists partially through its subjects. This why I think Alexander describes it as being "practically" a god, as it possesses some godly power, but isn't actually on the level of the gods. In this case, I think it should honestly be interpreted similarly to how Radahn can use some of Miquella's light, but even weaker because of the fact that while Radahn has all of Miquella's power to use, the Fire Giant only has a portion of the Fell Gods power. This could also have weird consequences when you consider the Tarnished can fight Adan and use the Flame of the Fell God incantation, which is literally a piece of the Fell God's power manifest.

This legendary incantation is one of several that draws directly from the power of the Fire Giants.

Releases a ball of raging fire said to be inhabited by a fell god. The fireball floats toward enemies and explodes, setting the area ablaze.

Arghanthy, the chief guardian of the Flame, had kept this incantation a well-kept secret until it was stolen by Adan. The fell god still lurks within the Fire Giants.

Sure, the Fire Giant itself likely has more access to the Fell god's power, but at that point you run into a weird scenario of assigning an arbitrary downscale to what is already an arbitrary downscale.

Now, I can kind of see scaling all lords to the Miquella downscale to some degree, especially if we want to avoid Radahn just being an extra strong outlier. However, I don't think this downscale should be given as far back as the Fire Giant, since we know the Tarnished is only able to beat Consort Radahn in the first place because of Scadutree Fragments. If we give th High 6-B downscale to the Fire Giant, then you have the Tarnished coming out of the DLC and somehow beating another character on the level of Consort Radahn without scadutree fragments.

Overall then, if we are going to do this to all of the lords, then the High 6-B downscale would only start to apply to bosses in the Ashen Capital. This would also help in differentiating prime Placidusax from his modern self, since it would make prime Placidusax High 6-B but make damaged Placi only 7-A (or 7-A+ if my calc goes through).

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

That would also mean Bayle can jump to and from his Prime state of power on a whim since the SotE book states that Phase 2 is him powering back up to his Prime.

 

[Chritin]

That would also mean Bayle can jump to and from his Prime state of power on a whim since the SotE book states that Phase 2 is him powering back up to his Prime.

God f***ing dammit

Tbh though, that would just make Bayle downscale off a downscale

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

God f***ing dammit

Tbh though, that would just make Bayle downscale off a downscale

A better question I have is if he can do that then why didn't he just pop it on Placidusax?

 

[Qawsedf234]

whim since the SotE book states that Phase 2 is him powering back up to his Prime.

Yes and no. Before his injuries he was in that state constantly, but after that he has to activate it and presumably its only for a short amount of time. It's like how Placidusax in his prime probably didn't need such a windup for his death lasers and wouldn't have his crippled body holding him back.

Like a Prime Placidusax probably isn't tripping while teleporting and doesn't need 10 seconds to turn flames into plasma beams.

Tbh, this is exactly what I was worried about saying. The other Elden Lords realistically should not scale to High 6-B, and if they do they should be like Radahn where they downscale to 170 Teratons

I mean we can do the following then

• Elden Beast
• Marika = Miquella = Fell God
• Placidusax = Bayle = Radahn = Godfrey

But the end result in either scenario is that that the Tarnished at some point gains enough runes to be stronger than a god. Even if you hardware Radahn as Scadutree Fragments and then being much weaker outside the DLC when they battle the Fire Giant.

 

[Chritin]

I mean we can do the following then

• Elden Beast
• Marika = Miquella = Fell God
• Placidusax = Bayle = Radahn = Godfrey

But the end result in either scenario is that that the Tarnished at some point gains enough runes to be stronger than a god. Even if you hardware Radahn as Scadutree Fragments and then being much weaker outside the DLC when they battle the Fire Giant.

No yeah that's okay. I'm just arguing against him getting to that point as early as the Fire Giant.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I'm gonna be honest, I'm not a fan of all the lords being multiple tiers below their respective gods since Godfrey was also just straight up gonna throw hands with Radagon to reclaim his spot as Elden Lord.

 

[Chritin]

I'm gonna be honest, I'm not a fan of all the lords being multiple tiers below their respective gods since Godfrey was also just straight up gonna throw hands with Radagon to reclaim his spot as Elden Lord.

Yeah, looking back on it always has been a bit weird? I mean, I kinda had ideas a while back of scaling them to the Lord of Frenzy feat, but that's always been its own thing sorta.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I'm gonna be honest, I'm not a fan of all the lords being multiple tiers below their respective gods since Godfrey was also just straight up gonna throw hands with Radagon to reclaim his spot as Elden Lord.

I think the point is more that no many people should be High 6-B. So maybe something like

• Tarnished with maxed Scadutree Fragments, +10/+25 Weapons and two dudes of comparable power = Miquella and Radahn
• Tarnished is nerfed since that power is lost outside of the Lands of Shadow
• Tarnished gets similar power after defeating Alexander, Fire Giant and Bernahl
• Placidusax = Godfrey = Bayle = Tarnished = Radagon
• Endgame Tarnished > Elden Beast

Godfreys grace told him to battle the Tarnished rather than fight Radagon. So I think the implication we're going with is that Godfrey/Tarnished needs to strength of the other to defeat the Elden Beast in this scenario.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Yeah, looking back on it always has been a bit weird? I mean, I kinda had ideas a while back of scaling them to the Lord of Frenzy feat, but that's always been its own thing sorta.

Yeah, it's just odd all around. Also I don't remember any implications that Bayle's Prime Form was a temporary transformation, at least in the "He can't maintain it forever if he wanted to" kind of way.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I think the point is more that no many people should be High 6-B. So maybe something like

• Tarnished with maxed Scadutree Fragments, +10/+25 Weapons and two dudes of comparable power = Miquella and Radahn
• Tarnished is nerfed since that power is lost outside of the Lands of Shadow
• Tarnished gets similar power after defeating Alexander, Fire Giant and Bernahl
• Placidusax = Godfrey = Bayle = Tarnished = Radagon
• Endgame Tarnished > Elden Beast

Godfreys grace told him to battle the Tarnished rather than fight Radagon. So I think the implication we're going with is that Godfrey/Tarnished needs to strength of the other to defeat the Elden Beast in this scenario.

Wouldn't that only mean he'd get twice as strong? Wait a minute.... Does that make the whole "There was a two times buff for Radahn" thing more consistent?

 

[Chritin]

Yeah, it's just odd all around. Also I don't remember any implications that Bayle's Prime Form was a temporary transformation, at least in the "He can't maintain it forever if he wanted to" kind of way.

i think the usage of his wings is a representation of it, so the fact he doesn't have access to it the entire time.

 

[Chritin]

Also, just wanted to mention that I do plan on making an improved Elden Ring scaling blog. Like I said, there are calcs I want to do that may shake up the chain still (god have mercy on us when I get to Metyr).

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Wouldn't that only mean he'd get twice as strong? Wait a minute.... Does that make the whole "There was a two times buff for Radahn" thing more consistent?

Bump.

 

[Chritin]

Bump

 

[Chritin]

Bump. Also, all the discussion on High 6-B should be changed to Low 5-B since I've changed the calc and had it accepted.

Consort Radahn's Meteor Rain

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Welp, there goes my idea for an eventual Placidusax vs Ghidorah thread.

 

[Chritin]

Welp, there goes my idea for an eventual Placidusax vs Ghidorah thread.

Apologies the feat might also change again if some other CGM have anything to say about the calc, so you may have you fight one day. I think it's at a good place now, but I do understand there may be some contentious points.

 

[Chritin]

Wouldn't that only mean he'd get twice as strong? Wait a minute.... Does that make the whole "There was a two times buff for Radahn" thing more consistent?

Uhh maybe? You could semantisize it a bit further I suppose, but like I said I think it would be good to avoid downscaling off an already somewhat arbitrary downscale.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Bump

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Bump

How do you feel about the buff to Radahn's calc?

 

[Qawsedf234]

If its accepted that's fine. But tbe issues of Radahn downscaling are still present. Him being 7-A just doesn’t make sense if the next form is Low 5-B within the same fight.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Minor Bump

 

[Qawsedf234]

@Emirp sumitpo What do you think?

 

[Chritin]

If its accepted that's fine. But tbe issues of Radahn downscaling are still present. Him being 7-A just doesn’t make sense if the next form is Low 5-B within the same fight.

I think all of that stuff is fine, but I think we still need some discussion about Bayle since I want to try to avoid a double downscale, especially when he directly affects the scaling of Placidusax.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

If its accepted that's fine. But tbe issues of Radahn downscaling are still present. Him being 7-A just doesn’t make sense if the next form is Low 5-B within the same fight.

Would At most Low 5-B work? Because it's kinda clear that the gap isn't astronomical judging by their fight with the Tarnished.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I think all of that stuff is fine, but I think we still need some discussion about Bayle since I want to try to avoid a double downscale, especially when he directly affects the scaling of Placidusax.

As a Placidusax simp, I will be biased. Having said that, my estimation is basically as follows:

• Placidusax = Bayle Thunder Mode = Elden Lords = Low 5-B Calc
• Bayle pre-thunder mode and Consort Radahn = Downscale to an unknown degree

Canonically the Tarnished uses summons for fights. We know the following:

• Tarnished is unlikely to have summoned anyone for Godfrey and can't summon anyone for Radagon/Elden Beast. So by that point, Tarnished > Gods/Elden Lords solo
• Tarnished fights Placidusax solo
• Ansbache/Thiollier dies fighting Miquella and Radahn
• Igon's Soul helps the Tarnished defeats Bayle

So by my estimation:

• Gods = Elden Lords = Low 5-B (Full Value)
• Bayle (wounded) = Low 5-B (Half Value since you needed two dudes)
• Radahn = Low 5-B (One-Third to Half Value)

Ignoring all of that on the claim that it's completely baseless, then it would just be "At most Low 5-B, higher with Miquella/Thunder Mode (Scales to Light Value)

Would At most Low 5-B work?

Yeah. It would be "At most Low 5-B, higher with Miquella, likely 4-A"

One thing to consider as well, Radahn the entire time that Malenia fought him and even when the Tarnished fights him was actively nerfing himself holding back stars, meteors, the Moons and the Astels that roam the void of space. So Consort Radahn is the only time he would have access to the full scope of his magical powers, which would explain the massive strength increase imo.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

As a Placidusax simp, I will be biased. Having said that, my estimation is basically as follows:

• Placidusax = Bayle Thunder Mode = Elden Lords = Low 5-B Calc
• Bayle pre-thunder mode and Consort Radahn = Downscale to an unknown degree

Canonically the Tarnished uses summons for fights. We know the following:

• Tarnished is unlikely to have summoned anyone for Godfrey and can't summon anyone for Radagon/Elden Beast. So by that point, Tarnished > Gods/Elden Lords solo
• Tarnished fights Placidusax solo
• Ansbache/Thiollier dies fighting Miquella and Radahn
• Igon's Soul helps the Tarnished defeats Bayle

So by my estimation:

• Gods = Elden Lords = Low 5-B (Full Value)
• Bayle (wounded) = Low 5-B (Half Value since you needed two dudes)
• Radahn = Low 5-B (One-Third to Half Value)

Ignoring all of that on the claim that it's completely baseless, then it would just be "At most Low 5-B, higher with Miquella/Thunder Mode (Scales to Light Value)

Yeah. It would be "At most Low 5-B, higher with Miquella, likely 4-A"

One thing to consider as well, Radahn the entire time that Malenia fought him and even when the Tarnished fights him was actively nerfing himself holding back stars, meteors, the Moons and the Astels that roam the void of space. So Consort Radahn is the only time he would have access to the full scope of his magical powers, which would explain the massive strength increase imo.

Just to add on top of that, Consort Radahn is in Mogh’s body as he used a Bloodflame related move that Mogh does have accessible to it IIRC.

 

[Chritin]

As a Placidusax simp, I will be biased. Having said that, my estimation is basically as follows:

• Placidusax = Bayle Thunder Mode = Elden Lords = Low 5-B Calc
• Bayle pre-thunder mode and Consort Radahn = Downscale to an unknown degree

Technically, Placi, Phase 2 Bayle, and the other lords are already downsacling and wouldn't scale to the low 5-b calc exactly. That's where my issues arise, since that would mean injured placi and injured Bayle downscale even more, which wouldn't be a problem if Bayle didn't have the same weird ahh tier jump during his fight. We run into the same issue of him jumping from 7-A to Low 5-B.

I will say, this isn't the first time there have been tier jumps mid battle that are generally agreed upon for souls games, so I feel like it isn't too far out of the realm of possibility one of these could be accepted. For example, the Abyss Watchers individually downscale off the 4-C rating for Lords of Cinder, and its only in phase two when one of the abyss watchers absorbs all their power through the blood of the wolf do they jump from Low 4-C to 4-C.

Canonically the Tarnished uses summons for fights. We know the following:

• Tarnished is unlikely to have summoned anyone for Godfrey and can't summon anyone for Radagon/Elden Beast. So by that point, Tarnished > Gods/Elden Lords solo
• Tarnished fights Placidusax solo
• Ansbache/Thiollier dies fighting Miquella and Radahn
• Igon's Soul helps the Tarnished defeats Bayle

So by my estimation:

• Gods = Elden Lords = Low 5-B (Full Value)
• Bayle (wounded) = Low 5-B (Half Value since you needed two dudes)
• Radahn = Low 5-B (One-Third to Half Value)

I don't think dividing by summoning would really make sense, but I get what you're saying. Ansbach and Thiollier are more afraid of Miquella than anything else, so that's more likely the point where they die. I'm guessing they would mostly just scale to Lord Radahn, so about half of Low 5-B, but not inherently downscale. Yeah, Radahn getting jumped by 3 people who are basically on the same tier as him is a bit rough, but that's kind of how the story is implied. They are just way more scared of Miquella and his power than anything else.

On the topic of Elden Lords, I really don't think any of them should fully scale to the gods, except Radagon but I think that's partially due to him containing the Elden Ring in his own body when we face him. There's some shit going on with him that I don't think we every fully went through.

Personally, I plan on writing up something quick on my thoughts, as I've had the idea to do an ER scaling blog for a while.

 

[Qawsedf234]

We run into the same issue of him jumping from 7-A to Low 5-B.

My point there is that they just can't be 7-A if they're fighting characters wer consider to be Low 5-B. Unless they're canonically one shot then they'd have to be of comparable power to them.

injured placi and injured Bayle downscale even more, which wouldn't be a problem

That's only if Placidusax's wounds impact his AP rather than stamina. Bayle for example has his full power avaliable to him, just in limited quantities now. The difference between prime Bayle and current Bayle is that prime Bayle can (presumably) just stay in his thunder form at all times.

With that knowledge it's likely Placidusax kept his strength but lost the stamina he used to have as Elden Lord.

abyss watchers absorbs all their power through the blood of the wolf do they jump from Low 4-C to 4-C.

Even with that though, its the 4-C value divided by some number. So they're just downscaling from an existing rating.

Yeah, Radahn getting jumped by 3 people who are basically on the same tier as him is a bit rough, but that's kind of how the story is implied

Sure, but that still means that Radahn just can't be 7-A during that fight. He would need to be much stronger.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

What do you mean by thunder form? That power up is literally described as just being how Bayle was before his injuries.

 

[Qawsedf234]

What do you mean by thunder form?

His phase two. I just don't know how else to describe it.

Anyways, I think we have enough people who have accepted this. So I think the changes can be applied now.