HAZBIN HOTEL UPGRADES FOR GOD TIERS AND DOWNGRADES FOR BLITZY!

[Mythic381]

Lucifer

Lucifer is currently rated as

Mountain level physically (Is the most powerful being in Hell, standing at the very top of it's hierarchy. Far superior to Adam and could easily beat him down. As a fallen angel he possesses angelic powers that trump over the power of Demons. Is one of Hell's few magic users, with only the most powerful demons being capable of using magic), Unknown with Creation (Angels are stated to have expanded the universe)

Well first thing is that all his creation feats should just scale to his AP and all other stats as Angels do have a sort of universal energy system where all things angelic have similar properties which is to be able to kill sinners and Ars Goetia, erase souls and their evilness, etc and demons can only take and reshape their spears with Adam's light beams seemingly having the same properties as when it hit Sir Pentious, everyone believed that his death was permanent and not something he could respawn from

Furthermore not only are Angels literally composed of light. Adam uses the same light to create his guitar as he does to annihilate things with his light beams, Lucifer uses similar light blasts for creation and Charlie can enhance her arm with the same light aura that Lucifer burst into when shapeshifting and when he forms some gameslot machines. Lucifer also uses Light to form portals.

All in all, Angelic beings have a single source of power from which they draw their power in both creation and destruction as well as abilities like shapeshifting, this source composes their entire form and can be used to enhance it...somehow? Not sure how that works but pretty clearly a UES

Now for the fun part, the scaling.

Now this feat was rejected for a few reasons which I will both address here as well

First reason is that it's a metaphor for the Angels making Adam and Eve not a literal expansion of the universe. To which I would first like to present the full quote:

“Lucifer was one of these Angels, He was a dreamer with fantastical ideas for all of creation but he was seen as a troublemaker by the elders of heaven, for they felt his way of thinking was dangerous to the order of their world so he watched as the angels began to expand the universe in their ways”

Now I want you to keep one thing in mind before I continue, Lucifer's dreams were FOR the expansion of the universe that the angels were doing as is clearly seen from the quote so just keep that in mind and then look at this.

Lucifer shows young Charlie one of his lofty dreams which was creating a star system with a huge angelic bird.

I mean it doesn't really get more obvious than that, Lucifer's dreams included creating star systems and these dreams were for the universal expansion ergo the universal expansion included creating Star systems.

Some other arguments provided were that it's a song where anything can happen and well just no cuz yes it's in a song but it's also a flashback scene and the whole scene clearly is not supposed to be illusory. Charlie's story being unreliable has no backing to it other than Lucifer being the prince of lies which he is not in the show, that is Satan.

Now for where this would scale. I do have a calc which puts it at like multi solar which I think is a pretty safe bet as there are about 200 billion trillion (septillion) stars in the universe but the Universe is only about 13 billion years old IRL although likely much younger in the Hellaverse.

The Number of Angels doesn't even matter at that point even if there were like a million it would still at least be solar system level if not multi solar system level. Although it is highly implied that the angels expanding the universe were the Angels of the first triad, The elders with the Elders in that scene being a Seraphim(Sera) and a few Ophanim.

Further supported by the fact that the only angels we see in the entire intro (Other than Adam and the exorcists at the end) are the first triad of angels. Seraphim, Cherubim and Ophanim and the fact that other angel types wouldn't even be able to exist cuz winners are human souls, exorcists came after Adam and the Cherub’s entire job is to help human souls.

The first triad does canonically exist as well with Sera being the highest angel in all heaven directly below the Speaker of God (page 9)

And there's like 22 Angels in the first triad including Sera using this shot

So overall each of these Angels should be Solar system to Multi Solar system level including Lucifer. Pretty sure this should also give them MFTL+ speeds

The other Sins should also be updated for being in the same league as him

Also we see Sera and the some Ophanim grow to Planetary sizes twice so there's that. And no it's not purely visual, not only is it repeated but it's pretty consistent with Lucifer having size manipulation and Lucifer's giant star sized angelic bird.

The scene also shows the Angels forming the Earth so that too I guess although I don't think any of this really matters since they should be Multi Solar anyways.

Stolas

So the second calc in here

Now I would talk about within the post itself but the calc has already undergone evaluation with one of them being accepted so I'll just talk about it here (Not like the calc was deemed incorrect it was a matter of whether Stolas should scale to it)

Reason for rejection:

The planet, tore apart. Starting on the opposite side of Stolas, and with no force actually visibly reaching him. A person in a tank is not wall level for being unharmed by bullets hitting the hull, and even that at least has them inside the object in question rather than being on the completely opposite side to eat even less of it

The analogy does not work because in that case the person is inside of the tank while Stolas was ON the planet in this case but coming to the main point. Stolas straight up was NOT on the other side of the planet, he was already on a side which was affected by the shockwave

And then walks closer

I mean he's pretty clearly in the area of the shockwave

Blitzø
Why is Blitzø large mountain level simply for having access to the grimoire? (Former access at least) Legit the only spell he can use is portal creation.

UPDATED PROPOSAL: THE SINS CRACK THE EARTH​

Pretty obvious, in our references for common feats we already have cracking the earth as a feat listed Small planetary with

Requirements:The Earth either has to be split to an extent that is visible from outer space (so far away that one can see the Earth in its entirety) or it has to be known that the halves were separated by at least 203km.

Fulfilled pretty easily, This feat was done by Evil which is Darkness and Sin with THE Sins being the embodiments of this evil akin to the Gods of Lovecraft such as Azathoh. They first manifested when Lucifer committed the first Sin and made Hell which is itself composed of sin i.e dark evil energy as its foundation. The Sins should individually scale to 1/6th this so still Small Planetary. Although they should still be much higher, like multi solar cuz as i mentioned they are in the same league as Lucifer and also they comprise hell and seemingly made it.

FINAL PROPOSALS​

Upgrade Lucifer to multi solar system level, something like this

Multi-Solar System level (Is the most powerful being in Hell, standing at the very top of its hierarchy., Far superior to Adam and could easily beat him down[²]. As a fallen angel he possesses angelic powers that trump over the power of Demons Is one of Hell's few magic users, with only the most powerful demons being capable of using magic. One of the angels capable of expanding the universe which is a process that included the creation of star systems. Superior to the Sins who can split the earth and create hell

Upgrade the Sins

At least Small Planet level, Likely Multi-Solar System level (At the very apex of Hell's hierarchy, Is the embodiment of Sin which created and comprises all of hell as its foundation with each of Hell's seven rings being filled with their own starry skies as well as natural phenomenon like Nebulae and Asteroids. Can split the earth in half

Upgrade Stolas

Large island level (Is debatably superior to Alastor. Is a prince of the Goetia family, a separate but similarly high-ranking hierarchical status to the Overlords, and is capable of using magic, as he possesses a level of power far above the norm. Can tank a shockwave from a star which blew apart a celestial body)

Downgrade Blitzø and Loona by just removing their large mountain level key

Agree: @StoneKillerz12

Disagree: @DaReaperMan @Anonymous_Learner @TheOrangeGuy09

Neutral:

 

[DaReaperMan]

Lucifer

Lucifer is currently rated as


Well first thing is that all his creation feats should just scale to his AP and all other stats as Angels do have a sort of universal energy system where all things angelic have similar properties which is to be able to kill sinners and Ars Goetia, erase souls and their evilness, etc and demons can only take and reshape their spears with Adam's light beams seemingly having the same properties as when it hit Sir Pentious, everyone believed that his death was permanent and not something he could respawn from

Furthermore not only are Angels literally composed of light. Adam uses the same light to create his guitar as he does to annihilate things with his light beams, Lucifer uses similar light blasts for creation and Charlie can enhance her arm with the same light aura that Lucifer burst into when shapeshifting and when he forms some gameslot machines. Lucifer also uses Light to form portals.

All in all, Angelic beings have a single source of power from which they draw their power in both creation and destruction as well as abilities like shapeshifting, this source composes their entire form and can be used to enhance it...somehow? Not sure how that works but pretty clearly a UES

Now for the fun part, the scaling.

Now this feat was rejected for a few reasons which I will both address here as well

First reason is that it's a metaphor for the Angels making Adam and Eve not a literal expansion of the universe. To which I would first like to present the full quote:


Now I want you to keep one thing in mind before I continue, Lucifer's dreams were FOR the expansion of the universe that the angels were doing as is clearly seen from the quote so just keep that in mind and then look at this.

Lucifer shows young Charlie one of his lofty dreams which was creating a star system with a huge angelic bird.

I mean it doesn't really get more obvious than that, Lucifer's dreams included creating star systems and these dreams were for the universal expansion ergo the universal expansion included creating Star systems.

Some other arguments provided were that it's a song where anything can happen and well just no cuz yes it's in a song but it's also a flashback scene and the whole scene clearly is not supposed to be illusory. Charlie's story being unreliable has no backing to it other than Lucifer being the prince of lies which he is not in the show, that is Satan.

Now for where this would scale. I do have a calc which puts it at like multi solar which I think is a pretty safe bet as there are about 200 billion trillion (septillion) stars in the universe but the Universe is only about 13 billion years old IRL although likely much younger in the Hellaverse.

The Number of Angels doesn't even matter at that point even if there were like a million it would still at least be solar system level if not multi solar system level. Although it is highly implied that the angels expanding the universe were the Angels of the first triad, The elders with the Elders in that scene being a Seraphim(Sera) and a few Ophanim.

Further supported by the fact that the only angels we see in the entire intro (Other than Adam and the exorcists at the end) are the first triad of angels. Seraphim, Cherubim and Ophanim and the fact that other angel types wouldn't even be able to exist cuz winners are human souls, exorcists came after Adam and the Cherub’s entire job is to help human souls.

The first triad does canonically exist as well with Sera being the highest angel in all heaven directly below the Speaker of God (page 9)

And there's like 22 Angels in the first triad including Sera using this shot

So overall each of these Angels should be Solar system to Multi Solar system level including Lucifer. Pretty sure this should also give them MFTL+ speeds

The other Sins should also be updated for being in the same league as him

Also we see Sera and the some Ophanim grow to Planetary sizes twice so there's that. And no it's not purely visual, not only is it repeated but it's pretty consistent with Lucifer having size manipulation and Lucifer's giant star sized angelic bird.

The scene also shows the Angels forming the Earth so that too I guess although I don't think any of this really matters since they should be Multi Solar anyways.

These feats have been hammered into the dust, for instance, prove the book was literal which you haven't here. Not only is it from Lucifer, who's name does not promote honesty at the best of times, not only is this an easily metaphorical story book, but even if it was all literal, the angels were staring in horror at a ******* tier 6 feat! You can't make them 4-A when a tier 6 feats horrifies them, it's literally a contradiction in the same scene.

Stolas

So the second calc in here

Now I would talk about within the post itself but the calc has already undergone evaluation with one of them being accepted so I'll just talk about it here (Not like the calc was deemed incorrect it was a matter of whether Stolas should scale to it)

Reason for rejection:



The analogy does not work because in that case the person is inside of the tank while Stolas was ON the planet in this case but coming to the main point. Stolas straight up was NOT on the other side of the planet, he was already on a side which was affected by the shockwave

And then walks closer

I mean he's pretty clearly in the area of the shockwave

Gonna be nice... but this is a massive outlier, even if the feat was legit and Stolas wasn't talking a fraction of the energy, so I'll copy/paste what I said yesterday on the matter

From the Outlier page

1) Is it a big jump or drop in power? If a character with several city destruction feats is shown to be able to destroy a mountain, we cannot necessarily consider it as an outlier, for the reason that the jump between tiers is not extreme enough to be so, despite the jump between energy values we attribute to them. If the character has very few feats, we can likely ignore this point.

It is a big jump, with the next best scaleable feat from a character stronger than Stolas being 7-A via a bloodlusted attack.

2) Is it a unique or exceptional incident? If incidents of a similar level are repeated consistently over time, they are unlikely to be outliers. Usually, from the third incident onwards. If the character has very few feats, we can also likely skip this point.

It was during a song, and overall contains two characters not necessarily treated as incredibly physically powerful, just their magic.

3) Is the event unexplained and unjustified? If an extreme incident is not accompanied by any kind of explanation that justifies it, it is probably an outlier. But if it can be explained by means of some power-up, vulnerability, or limiter, it is likely not. If Superman is wounded by a bullet, it's probably an outlier. But if Superman was under the influence of red sunlight or was previously weakened with Kryptonite, it is not.

Yes.

4) Does the event break the previously established power-scaling? Here we must take into account a number of factors, such as comparable characters possessing feats or statements of a similar level to the hypothetical outlier, the outlier not being supported by fights that might suggest a similar level, or subsequent events or statements that contradict it in some way.

Yes, this is the strongest scalable feat in the verse, from a character not treated as terribly powerful physically.

5) Does the event break with the narrative of the work? Many times an outlier breaks with what has been previously established or shown in a work, creating inconsistencies that are difficult to resolve unless we invalidate one of the two events. If, for example, a character claims not to be able to dodge bullets, even though he was previously seen dodging them explicitly, we are faced with a contradiction where we will probably have to resort to using the more reliable evidence.

Inconclusive because Viv doesn't know her own story half the time so how are we supposed to say it breaks narrative?

Side note, I love how the song where Stolas lies through his beak for like 3 minutes is a primary argument here. Just a cherry on top.

Other side note, so this means you're willing Stolas' profile not be outdated by an entire season and some more episodes, right? Because clearly you care about the quality of the profiles and not just stats, right?

Blitzø
Why is Blitzø large mountain level simply for having access to the grimoire? (Former access at least) Legit the only spell he can use is portal creation.

Who knows.

 

[TugiaTheNarrator]

Bro. They aren't 4-A they're 4-B

How TF are they 4-A?

Disagree with Stolas cuz he was gravitationally attached to the planet

The Grimoire is High 7-A so all its wielders scale to it

 

[Mythic381]

Bro. They aren't 4-A they're 4-B

How TF are they 4-A?

Now for where this would scale. I do have a calc which puts it at like multi solar which I think is a pretty safe bet as there are about 200 billion trillion (septillion) stars in the universe but the Universe is only about 13 billion years old IRL although likely much younger in the Hellaverse.

 

[TugiaTheNarrator]

link me the calc

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

this verse will turn to dust and blow away.
disagree for obvious reasons. Even if I do think the angels such as Lucifer and the other higher angels (Adam and the exorcists haven't shown the capacity to do this. Adam may have created somethings but nothing on the level we're talking) should be higher due to creation feats, we currently have nothing besides the opening.
At best, likely wait till season 3 to try getting their creation feats that high but for now we got nothing

 

[Mythic381]

prove the book was literal which you haven't here

Now I want you to keep one thing in mind before I continue, Lucifer's dreams were FOR the expansion of the universe that the angels were doing as is clearly seen from the quote so just keep that in mind and then look at this.

Lucifer shows young Charlie one of his lofty dreams which was creating a star system with a huge angelic bird.

Not only is it from Lucifer, who's name does not promote honesty

Charlie's story being unreliable has no backing to it other than Lucifer being the prince of lies which he is not in the show, that is Satan. (this isn't biblical Lucifer)

not only is this an easily metaphorical story book,

The story book is the history of the the series. I think you mean that specific like is metaphorical? If yes then re-read the CRT. The Universal Expansion is pretty clearly referring to the creation of celestial bodies as Lucifer literally shows one of his dreams to Charlie (And the Angels create Earth)

but even if it was all literal, the angels were staring in horror at a ******* tier 6 feat! You can't make them 4-A when a tier 6 feats horrifies them, it's literally a contradiction in the same scene.

Well tier 6 Sins is cool I guess but they weren't horrified at the earth cracking, they were horrified at evil being released. It doesn't at all imply they are weaker than that feat

Gonna be nice... but this is a massive outlier, even if the feat was legit and Stolas wasn't talking a fraction of the energy, so I'll copy/paste what I said yesterday on the matter

He WAS taking a fraction of the energy, that's the point of the calc yes

It is a big jump, with the next best scaleable feat from a character stronger than Stolas being 7-A via a bloodlusted attack.

From the excerpt you gave “If the character has very few feats, we can likely ignore this point.” We have seen none of the top or even mid tiers in Hazbin hotel go all out other than Adam who was fighting somebody much stronger than him and got toyed with. Stolas himself is High 7-A on his profile too

It was during a song, and overall contains two characters not necessarily treated as incredibly physically powerful, just their magic.

It being during a song is not at all relevant since we know for a fact that it is real since Stolas enters and exits a portal to the dimension,walks and sits on the moon and Octavia looks at a picture of this moment before singing a song parallel to it in Sinsmas. We don't know enough about the Goetia to comment on the physical part

Yes.

Again. We haven't seen a single God tier go all out

Yes, this is the strongest scalable feat in the verse, from a character not treated as terribly powerful physically.

Same as what I said

Inconclusive because Viv doesn't know her own story half the time so how are we supposed to say it breaks narrative?

Agreed

Side note, I love how the song where Stolas lies through his beak for like 3 minutes is a primary argument here. Just a cherry on top.

Okay?

Other side note, so this means you're willing Stolas' profile not be outdated by an entire season and some more episodes, right? Because clearly you care about the quality of the profiles and not just stats, right?

Weirdly passive aggressive, but I don't see what can really be added to his profile from the new season, maybe a depowered key?

Who knows.

So you agree?

 

[Mythic381]

this verse will turn to dust and blow away.
disagree for obvious reasons. Even if I do think the angels such as Lucifer and the other higher angels (Adam and the exorcists haven't shown the capacity to do this. Adam may have created somethings but nothing on the level we're talking) should be higher due to creation feats, we currently have nothing besides the opening.
At best, likely wait till season 3 to try getting their creation feats that high but for now we got nothing

Remind me when Adam apparently became part of the angels who expanded the universe? The only argument I'm using for Adam is his capability of creating stuff out of light is something shown to be at least shared between Angels, doesn't have to mean they're all equal with it.

 

[Mythic381]

link me the calc

It's in PSW's Lucifer page, the one accepted.

 

[TugiaTheNarrator]

It's in PSW's Lucifer page, the one accepted.

I know about that calc and I have issues with it. Firstly, we can't assume that the expansion took 10,000 years just because Hell is 10,000 years old. It's more likely that the expansion started BEFORE Hell was created since that happened after the creation of Adam and Lilith, which was long after the Big Bang. Secondly, the Biblical week thing doesn't make sense because Hazbin Hotel is different from the Bible.
Also it's 13.8 billion years not 13 billion

Also who said anything about the first triad or whatever? All I know is that there are 23 angels, and we're just going to assume that all 23 of them expanded the universe together.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Charlie's story being unreliable has no backing to it other than Lucifer being the prince of lies which he is not in the show, that is Satan. (this isn't biblical Lucifer)

Other than it's a storybook with visuals that are from a biased perspective read as a bedtime story! This isn't enough to support this not being metaphorical.

The story book is the history of the the series. I think you mean that specific like is metaphorical? If yes then re-read the CRT. The Universal Expansion is pretty clearly referring to the creation of celestial bodies as Lucifer literally shows one of his dreams to Charlie (And the Angels create Earth)

So you don't have a counter-argument. We don't have a time frame, we don't know how many angels were involved, and we have no idea if they actually did anything except make universal processes happen. The ******* may have conceptual manipulation and made the universe work and universal range to do it, we don't know! I get it, big number make dopamine, but wait for Season 2 I'm pretty damn sure we'll see more for this.

Well tier 6 Sins is cool I guess but they weren't horrified at the earth cracking, they were horrified at evil being released. It doesn't at all imply they are weaker than that feat

Oh, so they can't just wave a hand and fix that tier 6 feat performed instead of staring like lemmings? Was the "evil" power nulling them even though Heaven has the best magic?

From the excerpt you gave “If the character has very few feats, we can likely ignore this point.” We have seen none of the top or even mid tiers in Hazbin hotel go all out other than Adam who was fighting somebody much stronger than him and got toyed with. Stolas himself is High 7-A on his profile too

You realize that's environmental destruction, right? And yes, there is something above Stolas: Adam. Make Stolas comparable to Adam, and you have an argument, but he straight up isn't, he's got no reason to even be sniffing Adam's taint in terms of arguable offensive power or durability.

It being during a song is not at all relevant since we know for a fact that it is real since Stolas enters and exits a portal to the dimension,walks and sits on the moon and Octavia looks at a picture of this moment before singing a song parallel to it in Sinsmas. We don't know enough about the Goetia to comment on the physical part

We do. We have a bird beating the shit out of another bird, remember? Plus, this is UNIQUE and EXCEPTIONAL, espeically for Stolas.

Again. We haven't seen a single God tier go all out

Why does Stolas scale to Lucifer or any other of the god-tiers? This is the equivalent of saying "Well Saitama performs a 4-A feat so Bang being 6-B isn't an outlier", they're a few void whales apart in scaling.

Weirdly passive aggressive, but I don't see what can really be added to his profile from the new season, maybe a depowered key?

Stolas' profile was last properly updated halfway into season 1. It's quite annoying when people only care about the stats.

 

[TugiaTheNarrator]

@DaReaperMan Speaking of the "Tier 6 feat" it's actually a Tier 7 feat

 

[DaReaperMan]

@DaReaperMan Speaking of the "Tier 6 feat" it's actually a Tier 7 feat

that's even worse lol

 

[TugiaTheNarrator]

that's even worse lol

Ikr the verse is actually fodder in terms of physicals
But I feel it still makes sense for them to be horrified by that feat for these reasons:

• They were scared about their creation getting destroyed
• Even if said feat was Tier 6 or whatever, they physically scale below it, as they would only scale to 4-B with powers (IF THE EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSE GETS ACCEPTED)

And I already stated before why this calc is severely inaccurate

I know about that calc and I have issues with it. Firstly, we can't assume that the expansion took 10,000 years just because Hell is 10,000 years old. It's more likely that the expansion started BEFORE Hell was created since that happened after the creation of Adam and Lilith, which was long after the Big Bang. Secondly, the Biblical week thing doesn't make sense because Hazbin Hotel is different from the Bible.
Also it's 13.8 billion years not 13 billion

Also who said anything about the first triad or whatever? All I know is that there are 23 angels, and we're just going to assume that all 23 of them expanded the universe together.

 

[TugiaTheNarrator]

Guys I think I should create a document scaling the verse

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

sure. Sounds fine by me

 

[TugiaTheNarrator]

Hellaverse Cosmology

docs.google.com

 

[TugiaTheNarrator]

sure. Sounds fine by me

I did it. https://docs.google.com/document/d/...cuYAVboqfsuFw5rW75EuBwhfFR5OvW4fm6R1H7czT/pub

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

I did it. https://docs.google.com/document/d/...cuYAVboqfsuFw5rW75EuBwhfFR5OvW4fm6R1H7czT/pub

Honestly...Not bad. Kinda like it

 

[Mythic381]

I know about that calc and I have issues with it. Firstly, we can't assume that the expansion took 10,000 years just because Hell is 10,000 years

It's as close as we can get since Hazbin doesn't follow our irl timeline or the Bible perfectly.

Secondly, the Biblical week thing doesn't make sense because Hazbin Hotel is different from the Bible.

It is highly based on it still, Adam was created on the 7th day of creation from the dusts of earth in the theology that Hazbin is based off. It's a pretty fair assumption no? Either way it's an high end

Also it's 13.8 billion years not 13 billion

We didn't have Stars for the first couple hundred million years pretty sure

First triad is just the name I'm using for the Elder Angels given that's literally both their theological name and their name in the Hellaverse. The highest of all the angels which performed those feats and we don't assume that it was those 22 doing it. The intro explicitly shows the Elders of Heaven as being them specifically Sera and some of the Ophanim

 

[Mythic381]

Other than it's a storybook with visuals that are from a biased perspective read as a bedtime story! This isn't enough to support this not being metaphorical.

Quite literally the intro to the series and it's history with multiple aspects that we know for a fact to be true like the whole Adam and Eve story and Lucifer cucking him. Also “We totally did this dope power thing which we can in no way do” is an extremely weird and awkward thing to make up.

So you don't have a counter-argument. We don't have a time frame, we don't know how many angels were involved, and we have no idea if they actually did anything except make universal processes happen. The ******* may have conceptual manipulation and made the universe work and universal range to do it, we don't know! I get it, big number make dopamine, but wait for Season 2 I'm pretty damn sure we'll see more for this.

Again passive aggressive for no reason but anyways, what exactly do you mean by no counter argument? You claimed it's metaphorical when I've already showed how it straight up isn't with Lucifer showing exactly what it was about. How are you claiming that we have no idea what they did when we literally see that one of Lucifer's dreams FOR the universal expansion and it is to form a star system with a huge angelic duck. And this is referring to the same characters who are known for materializing things out of light including huge structures all the time. Also I already addressed everything else including the number or angels and the timeframe in the CRT? It would still make them solar system level at the very least

Oh, so they can't just wave a hand and fix that tier 6 feat performed instead of staring like lemmings? Was the "evil" power nulling them even though Heaven has the best magic?

When evil was released, Hell was created. The Angels had been protecting all from evil for as long as we know and Lucifer had released it and created Hell quite literally. What part of this has to do with power like at all? What the hell do you want the Angels to do? Fix the crack? They probably did later but that doesn't do anything for the problem. Evil has been released and Hell has been formed.Do you think the Angels can rewind time and undo the concept of free will? Or do you think they're strong enough to just annihilate all of hell? Are you secretly a uni+ angels supporter?

You realize that's environmental destruction, right? And yes, there is something above Stolas: Adam. Make Stolas comparable to Adam, and you have an argument, but he straight up isn't, he's got no reason to even be sniffing Adam's taint in terms of arguable offensive power or durability.

Irrelevant. You claimed the highest scaleable feat is Adam's. The Stolas feat may not translate into AP directly but it is a scaleable feat and something for which this character can output enough energy for. Relevance? Why is Adam hard capped at Mountain level exactly? Is it because a blast from a pissed off Adam who had already been rag dolled by Lucifer and Alastor was calculated at mountain level? Why would that at all hard cap him.

We do. We have a bird beating the shit out of another bird, remember? Plus, this is UNIQUE and EXCEPTIONAL, espeically for Stolas.

Yeah Stolas beat the shit out of Andrealphus who had been thirsting for his power the entire season. Andrealphus is not as powerful as the other Goetia and is clearly nowhere near as powerful as Stolas since

1 - Stolas can one shot IMPs while Andrealphus for some reason cannot

2 - The aforementioned thirsting for his power the entire season

3 - Stolas is a Goetic prince and hence outranks Andrealphus

4 - Octavia can block his Hydra

5 - A powerless and rankless Stolas beat the shit out of him but Andrealphus did get up and almost kill Stolas after that

As for the unique and exceptional part. This character has very few feats, practically no anti feats and this is one of his first scenes.

Why does Stolas scale to Lucifer or any other of the god-tiers? This is the equivalent of saying "Well Saitama performs a 4-A feat so Bang being 6-B isn't an outlier", they're a few void whales apart in scaling.

When did I say Stolas scales to Lucifer? I'm counting Stolas as a God tier because he one shots 90% of the verse. Even if you don't count him as one and simply count him as a high tier then it can be rephrased to “No High or God tier in the verse has ever went all out” basically no character above like Sinner level?

Stolas' profile was last properly updated halfway into season 1. It's quite annoying when people only care about the stats.

I don't really see the relevance? Kinda just seems like random accusations of not caring about the profiles simply because I wanted to upgrade a character? Seems pretty reaching.

 

[TugiaTheNarrator]

Hazbin doesn't follow our irl timeline

There's no proof of that.

It is highly based on it still, Adam was created on the 7th day of creation from the dusts of earth in the theology that Hazbin is based off. It's a pretty fair assumption no? Either way it's an high end

Then explain why Hell is 10,000 years old then- This is so hypocritical

We didn't have Stars for the first couple hundred million years pretty sure

This assumes that the creation process was linear, which it wasn't

First triad is just the name I'm using for the Elder Angels given that's literally both their theological name and their name in the Hellaverse. The highest of all the angels which performed those feats and we don't assume that it was those 22 doing it. The intro explicitly shows the Elders of Heaven as being them specifically Sera and some of the Ophanim

It was never said it was just the elders. The statement said "the angels began to expand the universe in their ways," nothing about which ones did so

 

[StoneKillerz12]

@DaReaperMan Speaking of the "Tier 6 feat" it's actually a Tier 7 feat

No offense, but this calculation is just blatant and objective downplay. The two sides of the Earth move in this scene, that's blatantly applicable for KE and would at minimum be 5-B. The fact that you didn't calculate that part is highly disingenuous and borderline dishonest. In no universe whatsoever would splitting the Earth be narratively implied to be Mountain level at best, quit it.

Also, even ignoring KE, splitting the Earth is at absolute minimum Low 5-B which is literally listed on the "references for common feats" page. The comments on your calc blog also make it abundantly clear that you are intentionally trying to make the verse seem "fodder" (apparently Mountain level, which could easily solo our entire real world in a matter of minutes, is "fodder" lmao) and that you are intentionally being dishonest to downplay these characters. Stop doing that.

 

[StoneKillerz12]

BTW, I created the Stolas calc on here (the blog it was put in completely neglects to give me credit for it being the OP saying "they didn't make it), and I do not agree with it anymore. I made an updated version, which uses a much more accurate formula to get Stolas to Low 6-B.

 

[StoneKillerz12]

Bro. They aren't 4-A they're 4-B

They are. The feat is 4-A.

How TF are they 4-A?

The Universe, around when the Earth was formed (9 billion years) ago had a redshift of 0.42, meaning it was about 42% it's current size

• Size of current Universe = 93,016,000,000 light-years = 8.79999305638e+26 meters
• Size of Universe when Earth was formed = 93,016,000,000 * 0.42 = 39,066,720,000 light-years = 3.69599708368e+26 meters

Distance Universe was expanded after Earth was formed = 8.79999305638e+26 - 3.69599708368e+26 = 5.103996e+26 meters

• Expanding the Universe to it's current size = 4 * 5.693e+41 * ((5.103996e+26/2)/696350000)^2 = 3.0584873e+77 J (3-B/Multi-Galaxy level)

Since this expansion occured once/right before Earth was created, the timeframe has to be 4.54 billion years.

Energy per second = 3.0584873e+77 J / 4,540,000,000 years = 2.1347948e+60 J = 21.347 PetaFoe (4-A/Multi-Solar System level)

4 angels contributed, so we'll divide the value by that amount.

Individual Angel = 2.1347948e+60 / 4 = 5.336987e+59 J = 5.336 PetaFoe (4-A/Multi-Solar System level)

Disagree with Stolas cuz he was gravitationally attached to the planet

It was not a "Planet", it was an asteroid/small moon around 100 meters in diameter, and he was taking the gravitational force of a Star at a very close distance, which is Low 6-B.

The Grimoire is High 7-A so all its wielders scale to it

High 7-A? It doesn't even scale to Lucifer nor Adam, who currently cap at 7-A lmao.

 

[StoneKillerz12]

Ikr the verse is actually fodder in terms of physicals

No, it isn't. 7-A is not "fodder", it would literally instantly destroy our entire real world in a matter of minutes. You probably couldn't even imagine the scale of an 8-A level explosion, lmao.

But I feel it still makes sense for them to be horrified by that feat for these reasons:

What do you mean "horrified"? They were taken aback by the Earth being split in two while they were over 3x bigger than it. Wouldn't you be a little shocked if a LEGO set you were working on for weeks suddenly exploded out of nowhere? There's no implication whatsoever they were "horrified", let alone shocked because of the scale of such an attack and not because what they were working on got destroyed. Earth got restored presumably quickly anyway, so clearly it wasn't much of an issue for them.

• They were scared about their creation getting destroyed

Again, FRA, there's no implication whatsoever to suggest this is true.

• Even if said feat was Tier 6 or whatever, they physically scale below it, as they would only scale to 4-B with powers (IF THE EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSE GETS ACCEPTED)

Earth splitting is at absolute minimum Low 5-B, you are severely and most likely intentionally downplaying an objectively Low 5-B feat below what the standard value for such a feat is.

And I already stated before why this calc is severely inaccurate

I don't use the Google Doc calc linked here, so I can't really comment.

 

[TugiaTheNarrator]

the blog it was put in completely neglects to give me credit for it being the OP saying "they didn't make it

I linked the OG calc u made in the heading

 

[TugiaTheNarrator]

The comments on your calc blog also make it abundantly clear that you are intentionally trying to make the verse seem "fodder" (apparently Mountain level, which could easily solo our entire real world in a matter of minutes, is "fodder" lmao)

I’m literally just joking about how low my result was

 

[StoneKillerz12]

Anyway, I agree with most of the above, but here is where I start having problems:

Now for where this would scale. I do have a calc which puts it at like multi solar which I think is a pretty safe bet as there are about 200 billion trillion (septillion) stars in the universe but the Universe is only about 13 billion years old IRL although likely much younger in the Hellaverse.

There is no basis for this whatsoever outside of biblical literalism, which wouldn't even work either as contrary to what young earth creationists would tell you, the Bible does not teach a 6,000 or 10,000 year old Earth, even if we disregard the fact that the Earth and Universe are objectively billions of years old.

The Number of Angels doesn't even matter at that point even if there were like a million it would still at least be solar system level if not multi solar system level. Although it is highly implied that the angels expanding the universe were the Angels of the first triad, The elders with the Elders in that scene being a Seraphim(Sera) and a few Ophanim.

There's no reason for this to be a discussion, the scene clearly shows four, with Sera being one of them. Divide the total energy by four, open and shut case.

Further supported by the fact that the only angels we see in the entire intro (Other than Adam and the exorcists at the end) are the first triad of angels. Seraphim, Cherubim and Ophanim and the fact that other angel types wouldn't even be able to exist cuz winners are human souls, exorcists came after Adam and the Cherub’s entire job is to help human souls.

The first triad does canonically exist as well with Sera being the highest angel in all heaven directly below the Speaker of God (page 9)

And there's like 22 Angels in the first triad including Sera using this shot

Again, FRA, 22 is a serious lowball. We see four in the scene, so we assume that four angels contributed.

So overall each of these Angels should be Solar system to Multi Solar system level including Lucifer.

Lucifer should just massively upscale the Angels who expanded the Universe as it's heavily implied he fought multiple of them at once and only barely lost right before he was exiled to Hell.

Pretty sure this should also give them MFTL+ speeds

No, it would not.

As for basically the entire Stolas section, as the person who made the calc, to be quite blunt, it's wrong. The moon was clearly not anywhere near the size of ours, Stolas is visible multiple times in comparison to it's curvature. Still, the gravitational force Stolas took while approaching that star can get up to Low 6-B, as I calced here.

 

[StoneKillerz12]

I linked the OG calc u made in the heading

Thank you!

I’m literally just joking about how low my result was

Ah, fair enough.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

yeah dawg. Don't take it so seriously. Mountain level Adam still solos our military and all of JJK.

 

[Mythic381]

There's no proof of that.

Humanity only being 10,000 years old

Then explain why Hell is 10,000 years old then- This is so hypocritical

Cuz in biblical terms the Earth is anywhere from 6,000 to 25,000 years old-

Also I'm not saying it follows that exactly, just “X is based on Y so it would be fair to assume that X is equal to Y in time taken for the HIGH end”

This assumes that the creation process was linear, which it wasn't

Not really. I'm just saying that Stars didn't exist in the universe for the first couple hundred million years which is true yeah

It was never said it was just the elders. The statement said "the angels began to expand the universe in their ways," nothing about which ones did so

You mean how like the clip transitions from the elders looking down to Lucifer to them expanding the universe? The Elders of Heaven didn't allow Lucifer to do so and we the Elder fly out and shape into Sera and the Ophanim, Given Sera is the highest ranking Angel in all Heaven other than the Speaker. Pretty fair to say it's the Elders.

 

[Mythic381]

There is no basis for this whatsoever outside of biblical literalism, which wouldn't even work either as contrary to what young earth creationists would tell you, the Bible does not teach a 6,000 or 10,000 year old Earth, even if we disregard the fact that the Earth and Universe are objectively billions of years old.

Correct but people do usually count young earth creationist stuff as “biblical” or consider it a separate sect of the religion. Humans are only about 10,000 years old in the verse as well

Although it's mostly irrelevant cuz the Angels would be about 4-A either way.

There's no reason for this to be a discussion, the scene clearly shows four, with Sera being one of them. Divide the total energy by four, open and shut case.

I doubt those are ALL of the Elder Angels especially since we do see other Ophanim in the intro , see 6 Elder Angels just before, etc

Lucifer should just massively upscale the Angels who expanded the Universe as it's heavily implied he fought multiple of them at once and only barely lost right before he was exiled to Hell.

More likely a court room case, not sure about Lucifer being stronger than Sera

No, it would not.

They would be traversing billions of light years and likely going like up, down, left and right and taking breaks to make the planets and stars and stuff

As for basically the entire Stolas section, as the person who made the calc, to be quite blunt, it's wrong. The moon was clearly not anywhere near the size of ours, Stolas is visible multiple times in comparison to it's curvature. Still, the gravitational force Stolas took while approaching that star can get up to Low 6-B, as I calced here.

More likely an animation thing no? Like the Planets being so close to each other for example. The planet Stolas is on also looks pretty big in comparison to them

the gravitational force Stolas took while approaching that star can get up to Low 6-B, as I calced here.

Seen it, looks pretty good but unfortunately the wiki only uses calcs that are on it I believe. Although I could probably do a calc blog with a ton of calcs that I have for this verse

 

[Mythic381]

They are. The feat is 4-A.

You know, you should probably start adding more of your calcs to VSBW.

 

[Mythic381]

Disagree with Stolas cuz he was gravitationally attached to the planet

Doesn't mean the gravity of the Star wouldn't affect him, if anything it would increase cuz the gravity from both would be acting on him. That's why tides exist. Also the gravity has nothing to do with the shockwave.

The Grimoire is High 7-A so all its wielders scale to it

Makes no sense, The grimoire has many spells but Blitzø can only use portal creation. It's like saying a human is wall+ level with a gun even if the only thing they can do with it is bash people's heads in

 

[Mythic381]

High 7-A? It doesn't even scale to Lucifer nor Adam, who currently cap at 7-A lmao.

Yeah for some reason, Stolas, Blitzø and Loona got upgraded to H7-A enviornmental destruction cuz of Stolas's cloud splitting but Lucifer and Adam didn't.I don't think this should be environmental destruction specifically anyways. Stolas shifted the clouds with presumably telekinesis so it should just scale to his AP

Earth splitting is at absolute minimum Low 5-B, you are severely and most likely intentionally downplaying an objectively Low 5-B feat below what the standard value for such a feat is.

Oh yeah, should this not scale to the Sins? Given they ARE the evil which was released by the Apple. Although they would just scale to Lucifer

Ikr the verse is actually fodder in terms of physicals
But I feel it still makes sense for them to be horrified by that feat for these reasons:

• They were scared about their creation getting destroyed
• Even if said feat was Tier 6 or whatever, they physically scale below it, as they would only scale to 4-B with powers (IF THE EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSE GETS ACCEPTED)

Fodder is subjective but no their physicals just scales to their powers through UES as I explained in the OP

 

[TugiaTheNarrator]

OK, so we upgrade Luci to Low 5-B
For the Low 6-B calc, idk someone should copy paste it here and see what happens
It will be accepted if it was an asteroid/moon, probably not if it was a full-on planet (bc of how gravity works)

 

[TugiaTheNarrator]

Doesn't mean the gravity of the Star wouldn't affect him, if anything it would increase cuz the gravity from both would be acting on him. That's why tides exist. Also the gravity has nothing to do with the shockwave.

I mean the kinetic energy of falling into the sun. The gravity of the sun would effect him, I agree with that, but I disagree about him tanking the kinetic energy

 

[Mythic381]

OK, so we upgrade Luci to Low 5-B

While I do agree, pretty sure StoneKillerz argues it as metaphorical.

For the Low 6-B calc, idk someone should copy paste it here and see what happens

I'll ask him.

 

[TugiaTheNarrator]

Humanity only being 10,000 years old

That doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things (There's no connection between that and the age of the universe).

Cuz in biblical terms the Earth is anywhere from 6,000 to 25,000 years old-

Since when was it 25,000? Creationism only says 6,000.

Not really. I'm just saying that Stars didn't exist in the universe for the first couple hundred million years which is true yeah

The angels would've just created other things (like energy or whatever)

You mean how like the clip transitions from the elders looking down to Lucifer to them expanding the universe? The Elders of Heaven didn't allow Lucifer to do so and we the Elder fly out and shape into Sera and the Ophanim, Given Sera is the highest ranking Angel in all Heaven other than the Speaker. Pretty fair to say it's the Elders.

Well, the issue is that if that was true, it would've said "the elders began to expand the universe" but it said "the angels began to expand the universe" implying that all angels were involved