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Difference between 0 and High 1-A+

All Tiers beside Tier 0 can fight against each other not only that but they are also just a byproduct of a Tier 0, all Tiers 0 on the wiki are the same character with just different showings if they have any.
Tiers 0 are just avatars of a whole fictional verse
 
0 is for characters that represent an indivisible apophatic ground of thought and being itself.

High 1-A+ is the logical space from logical pantheism, function as the space of being itself.

You can think of this relationship like the same one held between a computer and it’s software. The computer contains and upholds all the internal software and processing within it. To begin processing and experiencing any of the software, the computer must start. And when the computer starts, everything you’re experiencing is just an expression of the computer itself. However, despite that, it is only a one way relationship, meaning the computer is not dependent on software, but without the computer there is no software to experience. Whether the computer turns on and begins processing and expressing itself through the software, or whether it stays off in silence forever, the computers nature is never diminished. It will forever always remain as the computer, behind, within, and beyond everything playing or not playing out in front of you, all at once. The computer is the tier 0, and the software itself is high 1-A+.
 
Xearesay said:
0 is for characters that represent an indivisible apophatic ground of thought and being itself.

High 1-A+ is the logical space from logical pantheism, function as the space of being itself.

You can think of this relationship like the same one held between a computer and it’s software. The computer contains and upholds all the internal software and processing within it. To begin processing and experiencing any of the software, the computer must start. And when the computer starts, everything you’re experiencing is just an expression of the computer itself. However, despite that, it is only a one way relationship, meaning the computer is not dependent on software, but without the computer there is no software to experience. Whether the computer turns on and begins processing and expressing itself through the software, or whether it stays off in silence forever, the computers nature is never diminished. It will forever always remain as the computer, behind, within, and beyond everything playing or not playing out in front of you, all at once. The computer is the tier 0, and the software itself is high 1-A+.
Click to expand...
this analogy does not work between these levels
 
Nnnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmm said:
I read that the reality-fiction difference doesn't work at level 0, and the analogy with computers and software is the most typical example of such a difference.
Click to expand...
he used that tyoe of analogy to explain the difference here, you can just assume infinite meta trascended 'software' and 'hardware' computers being used and not just baseline analogy that is used by R>F T. using his analogy as logic for a verse will not get you tier 0. (analogy derevied from similarity where as logic is based on fundemental priciples and rules.)
 
Frey_Starlight said:
he used that tyoe of analogy to explain the difference here, you can just assume infinite meta trascended 'software' and 'hardware' computers being used and not just baseline analogy that is used by R>F T. using his analogy as logic for a verse will not get you tier 0. (analogy derevied from similarity where as logic is based on fundemental priciples and rules.)
Click to expand...
only this still doesn't answer the question of definition. all sorts of meta-peta-nota are just different orders, but it's still the difference between a computer and software... which doesn't work at the 0 level
 
Nnnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmm said:
only this still doesn't answer the question of definition. all sorts of meta-peta-nota are just different orders, but it's still the difference between a computer and software... which doesn't work at the 0 level
Click to expand...
he wasn't giving you any sort of defination, he was explaining it to you in simpler terms. for actual tier 0 context go here
 
Yeah, that wasn't an analogy to explain R>F, it was an analogy to explain the idea on how it works.
 
Frey_Starlight said:
he wasn't giving you any sort of defination, he was explaining it to you in simpler terms. for actual tier 0 context go here
Click to expand...
that's exactly what didn't give, even though I asked for it.

this article doesn't specify how to distinguish between 0 and high 1-A+. and that's exactly what I'm asking for. we have two characters, so how can I accurately determine that they are 0 and high 1-A+, rather than high 1-A and lower high 1-A?
 
Nnnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmm said:
that's exactly what didn't give, even though I asked for it.

this article doesn't specify how to distinguish between 0 and high 1-A+. and that's exactly what I'm asking for. we have two characters, so how can I accurately determine that they are 0 and high 1-A+, rather than high 1-A and lower high 1-A?
Click to expand...
here and here this should be enough of a difference to understand if you know what high 1-A is
 
DragonZeroNova said:
He is. + are not shown in the Tier category (Unless they are for T2 and T1, in which case his profile needs to be revised to include the +). Check AP. As an example, here's a link to his High 1-A key https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Akuto_Sai#The_Afterlife
and here's one to his High 1-A+ key https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Akuto_Sai#Void_Body

Pay attention to AP/Striking/Durability.
Click to expand...
And how we can differ akuto and soga and
DragonZeroNova said:
He is. + are not shown in the Tier category (Unless they are for T2 and T1, in which case his profile needs to be revised to include the +). Check AP. As an example, here's a link to his High 1-A key https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Akuto_Sai#The_Afterlife
and here's one to his High 1-A+ key https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Akuto_Sai#Void_Body

Pay attention to AP/Striking/Durability.
Click to expand...
And how i can differ sai and soga AND... For example-Azathoth and nyarlathothep? Or presence and lucifer?
 
Unfortunately, I cannot really say. Not because there isn't a difference, but because I am not that well-versed in T2+. I merely came to inform you that he is indeed High 1-A+. However, there are cosmology blogs related to said characters that could maybe help. If they do not, then hopefully other members can help explain that better.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Ichiban_Ushiro_no_Daimaou_Explanation_Page (High 1-A+)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Cthulhu_Mythos_Cosmology (0)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/DC_Comics_Cosmology (0)


There's also this excerpt from https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Omnipotence which may help (and maybe even the whole thing, since as far as I'm aware (and I hope I'm not wrong) Omnipotence is a T0 only thing), though if you've already read this, then my apologies.
"In broader terms, it might be possible to describe such a being as an "essence" in an analogical sense, due to the fact it exists at all, but the way in which it is an essence is very different in comparison to that which it transcends. A useful method of illustrating is by comparing the superiority that it holds over things with the superiority that lower tiers, such as 1-A, hold over lower things. That is:

A qualitatively superior domain is a higher level of existence, over and above the physicality and composition of a lesser reality, and the structure itself may be generalized into a multitude of "layers," in which each higher layer corresponds to a higher state that surpasses the lower. Here, there is an important sense in which each level is something specific and delimited, separated by the others by its very ontology. That is, while they are obviously not separated by space, the relation between all such layers is the relation of one object to another, and if one shifts between these levels, they have in a sense truly "changed locations," not by moving through actual spatial coordinates, but simply by being present to Realm B, as opposed to Realm A.

Not so, with a Tier 0. The nature of its transcendence results in it not being "somewhere else" compared to other things, in any sense whatsoever, insofar as that would entail an equivalent to "Being there, as opposed to here" and "Being here, as opposed to there." Since it transcends all such oppositions, it is also beyond any particular level of existence.

The crux of the matter here being that all of the aforementioned "levels" are able to be grouped together into a collection as its members. On the other hand, a Tier 0 does not stand to things as an object stands to another, but as a state that transcends objecthood entirely. More practically: In a cosmology where layers of reality are an ordered series of A, B and C, such a character is not "D", but rather the absence of the delineations distinguishing all of the aforementioned terms, and which would also distinguish an hypothetical "E", "F", "G", etc.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Omnipotence#cite_note-22"><span>[</span>note 5<span>]</span></a>

As such, it does not exist as a member of a collection alongside its inferiors, as if it was part of a multiplicity of objects. Similar to how the collection of all things within a cosmology is not, itself, something that can be put into a collection alongside one of its members (Such that the member and the set are the only elements of the new collection).<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Omnipotence#cite_note-23"><span>[</span>note 6<span>]</span></a>

Thus, a Tier 0 not only utterly transcends 1-A, but also transcends even the distinction between 1-A and below-1-A, and furthermore also the distinction between 1-A and High 1-A, and between any conceivable levels of the latter tier as well. Moreover, whereas all such tiers have "inverse" versions of themselves (For instance, a 1-A finds its inverse in a 11-C character who is qualitatively inferior to conventional reality), Tier 0 can have no such counterpart, as it is too all-encompassing to have any sort of opposite lying outside of itself."
 
DragonZeroNova said:
Unfortunately, I cannot really say. Not because there isn't a difference, but because I am not that well-versed in T2+. I merely came to inform you that he is indeed High 1-A+. However, there are cosmology blogs related to said characters that could maybe help. If they do not, then hopefully other members can help explain that better.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Ichiban_Ushiro_no_Daimaou_Explanation_Page (High 1-A+)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Cthulhu_Mythos_Cosmology (0)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/DC_Comics_Cosmology (0)


There's also this excerpt from https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Omnipotence which may help (and maybe even the whole thing, since as far as I'm aware (and I hope I'm not wrong) Omnipotence is a T0 only thing), though if you've already read this, then my apologies.
"In broader terms, it might be possible to describe such a being as an "essence" in an analogical sense, due to the fact it exists at all, but the way in which it is an essence is very different in comparison to that which it transcends. A useful method of illustrating is by comparing the superiority that it holds over things with the superiority that lower tiers, such as 1-A, hold over lower things. That is:

A qualitatively superior domain is a higher level of existence, over and above the physicality and composition of a lesser reality, and the structure itself may be generalized into a multitude of "layers," in which each higher layer corresponds to a higher state that surpasses the lower. Here, there is an important sense in which each level is something specific and delimited, separated by the others by its very ontology. That is, while they are obviously not separated by space, the relation between all such layers is the relation of one object to another, and if one shifts between these levels, they have in a sense truly "changed locations," not by moving through actual spatial coordinates, but simply by being present to Realm B, as opposed to Realm A.

Not so, with a Tier 0. The nature of its transcendence results in it not being "somewhere else" compared to other things, in any sense whatsoever, insofar as that would entail an equivalent to "Being there, as opposed to here" and "Being here, as opposed to there." Since it transcends all such oppositions, it is also beyond any particular level of existence.

The crux of the matter here being that all of the aforementioned "levels" are able to be grouped together into a collection as its members. On the other hand, a Tier 0 does not stand to things as an object stands to another, but as a state that transcends objecthood entirely. More practically: In a cosmology where layers of reality are an ordered series of A, B and C, such a character is not "D", but rather the absence of the delineations distinguishing all of the aforementioned terms, and which would also distinguish an hypothetical "E", "F", "G", etc.<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Omnipotence#cite_note-22"><span>[</span>note 5<span>]</span></a>

As such, it does not exist as a member of a collection alongside its inferiors, as if it was part of a multiplicity of objects. Similar to how the collection of all things within a cosmology is not, itself, something that can be put into a collection alongside one of its members (Such that the member and the set are the only elements of the new collection).<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Omnipotence#cite_note-23"><span>[</span>note 6<span>]</span></a>

Thus, a Tier 0 not only utterly transcends 1-A, but also transcends even the distinction between 1-A and below-1-A, and furthermore also the distinction between 1-A and High 1-A, and between any conceivable levels of the latter tier as well. Moreover, whereas all such tiers have "inverse" versions of themselves (For instance, a 1-A finds its inverse in a 11-C character who is qualitatively inferior to conventional reality), Tier 0 can have no such counterpart, as it is too all-encompassing to have any sort of opposite lying outside of itself."
Click to expand...
well, I'll ask them just in case, thanks for the info.

yes, I've read it. the point is that this description is quite abstract, and the principle of distinction is unclear. yes, it says that a claim of omnipotence is meaningless outside of context... but it doesn't provide any context for what exactly it means. let's take Azathoth as an example. can he be a high 1A+? yes, he can. can Soga be a 0? yes, he can. but there's something that puts Azatoth at level 0, and it doesn't put the same Soga at... the same input data. and I'm trying to figure out what it is. because, according to the idea, when the system was updated, they had to rely on something, so that anyone (or almost anyone) could read a work with a high level of power and clearly say that "this is a high 1-A, and this is a 1-B, and this is a 0" in relation to a particular character.

in general, as for me, the article about omnipotence lacks specifics from the works specifically. for example, take divine creator from marvel, and say why he is 0, and not any other level, and make a comparison with any other character having the same functionality, but a different level, to show on their example what their difference is... well, or make a conditional example with character A and character B
 
Last edited:
Nnnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmm said:
in general, as for me, the article about omnipotence lacks specifics from the works specifically. for example, take toaa from marvel, and say why he is 0, and not any other level, and make a comparison with any other character having the same functionality, but a different level, to show on their example what their difference is... well, or make a conditional example with character A and character B
Click to expand...
100% agree with this btw.
 
Nnnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmm said:
in general, as for me, the article about omnipotence lacks specifics from the works specifically. for example, take divine creator from marvel, and say why he is 0, and not any other level, and make a comparison with any other character having the same functionality, but a different level, to show on their example what their difference is... well, or make a conditional example with character A and character B
Click to expand...
this is very true and also attributes to why there are very few actual tier 0 and higher tier 1 experts in this wiki and most of the crt just comes to hault coz you can count in one hand how many staffs know their shit about the tier they made or their input made in the first place.
 
Frey_Starlight said:
this is very true and also attributes to why there are very few actual tier 0 and higher tier 1 experts in this wiki and most of the crt just comes to hault coz you can count in one hand how many staffs know their shit about the tier they made or their input made in the first place.
Click to expand...
Yes, there is a lack of context in the explanatory articles about how it should work "right here." Take the concept of meta-qualitative superiority. It is clear that qualitative superiority is a superiority that cannot be expressed by lower-level elements, regardless of their number. However, is meta-qualitative superiority a higher-order qualitative superiority? Or is it a different type of superiority? let's say the difference between character A and character B cannot be expressed by the stacking of infinite dimensions, and the difference between character B and character C cannot be expressed by the stacking of infinite layers, and the difference between these cannot be expressed by the stacking of infinite dimensions - is this still a qualitative difference, or is it already a meta-qualitative difference? How can I understand the difference between characters by looking at the work itself?
 
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