- 2,471
- 1,795
I really want to make The morioh trio (Josuke, Okuyasu and Koichi) fight a JJK disaster curse but speed equalize makes it hard to justify making it ****
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Unpopular Opinions and (Friendly) Rant thread
- Thread starter Unwanteduser48
- Start date
-
- Tags
- fun fun and games
- 2,471
- 1,795
Maybe I might still do it because of the AP gap but idk
- 5,419
- 4,854
Lmao if your older why don't act more mature?
This is exactly the same shit you did in the Arima vs Yoriichi Thread, whenever you realize your argument doesn't work you try to rewrite history and say, "That is never what I said."
I say I made the same args as Clover.
You say no I didn't.
I bring the recepits.
You suddenly change and say well you are saying that it was ignored.
I say yes the vast majority mods seemed to have ignored it and just said. Looks Good.
Which they did:
Demon Slayer Revisions
Introduction As of now, almost all characters from Demon Slayer in the mid-tier and above have their Durability, Attack Potency and Striking Strength scaled from a single feat performed by a low-tier (Gaiden Rengoku). This makes for poor and incomplete scaling which we seek to improve in this...
Demon Slayer Revisions
That's still Gyutaro's own power doing that and due to his Regeneration nothing would prevent him from constantly spamming suicide attacks and this is assuming that this specific attack would count as one. Do you have any proof of this? In the first place a character performing an attack...
Demon Slayer Revisions
That's still Gyutaro's own power doing that and due to his Regeneration nothing would prevent him from constantly spamming suicide attacks and this is assuming that this specific attack would count as one. Do you have any proof of this? In the first place a character performing an attack...
How did you know it was deceptive? I never said who or what was being ignored. You had no idea. You jumped to conclusion because you are still salty over a ******* versus thread.
Then, you bring up Damage and say he disagreed which he did, but leave out the fact that thread closed before he could come back with his complete thoughts.
Demon Slayer Revisions
That's still Gyutaro's own power doing that and due to his Regeneration nothing would prevent him from constantly spamming suicide attacks and this is assuming that this specific attack would count as one. Do you have any proof of this? In the first place a character performing an attack...
And you expect me to roll over and take that BS?
I am not your father. Don't expect me to spoil you if mess shit up.
- 5,419
- 4,854
Just do it.
- 2,471
- 1,795
question is also which disaster curse
prob no mahito so like maybe dagon or Hanami?
Dagon could be fun since we do know his domain and I could imagine the trio using the environment in the island to do some fuckery w restoration
Ill probably do it later today w dagon
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 26,554
- 12,482
Can Stand Users even hurt Cursed Spirits? I thought we considered them as Abstract Conceptual entities due to being made of CE?
- 2,471
- 1,795
I mean I can guess probably since stands can affect souls a bit and have enhanced non physical interaction
I would guess its akin to Dagon seeing three Yutas w one having cool hair, one being as dumb as Yuji and one thats 5'9
Jojo and JJK have some chemistry its just difficult w stand speed shenanigans
- 5,419
- 4,854
Go with Jogo because its Jojo with a g
- 1,706
- 1,323
keep your interpretation of that in your head, me telling you you misunderstood and strawmanned my points and arguments isn't suddenly wrong because you beleive it is and i already explained how in the post you conveniently didn't reply to
but literally enough of this
this is what i mean when i said you should literally work on your reading comprehension, i'm being serious, for the 3rd time, i DID NOT say you didn't make the same argument, you did, i said, we did not ignore it
here is my first post about this
nowhere did i claim you didn't make the same argument
this is my second post
once again, nowhere do i state you didn't make the argument
the whole point is making saying we did not ignore your argument which you claimed we did
the argument was said pretty early, and i don't care about how you're supposed to know anything, if you say something, be ready to back it up with actual objective evidence and not flimsy excuses, own up your mistake, if you didn't lie, just say that's not what you meant and move on
me caring about that sv thread is all in your head mate, i simply don't want a downgrade thread because of your flimsy words, and you did say the argument was “ignored.” That’s not neutral, it implies it wasn’t engaged with. Words mean thingsin case you hadn't noticed You didn’t specify by whom, but in context, it read like you were accusing people (including mods or other users) of ignoring it unfairly.
Don’t backpedal and pretend ambiguity now suddenly makes you innocent of misleading framing. If your wording caused confusion, own that.
this is just a weird deflection and a weak attempt at gaslighting the situation.
You made a vague statement with a strong implication, and now that someone called it out, you’re pretending it was everyone else’s fault for interpreting it the way you set it up to be taken. That’s what makes it deceptive.
and people aren't in your head, they can't read your mind, wether you like it or not, saying "my argument was ignored" without furhter elaboration si objectively using deceptive terminology wether you do it knowingly or by accident
Then, you bring up Damage and say he disagreed which he did, but leave out the fact that thread closed before he could come back with his complete thoughts.
Demon Slayer Revisions
That's still Gyutaro's own power doing that and due to his Regeneration nothing would prevent him from constantly spamming suicide attacks and this is assuming that this specific attack would count as one. Do you have any proof of this? In the first place a character performing an attack...vsbattles.com
because the thread was accepted, and he did reply once again after he said he wasn't sure to clarify something, but after that he simply seemed non interested in the thread since he didn't reply for days his lasy reply was in march 11 the thread continued on for another 11 days, and was closed march 23 he had plenty of time to voice out any disagreements wihtin that time frame assuming he had any, which he didn't, so it was safe to assume he either lost interest or he had none, here you once again accuse us of doing something we didn't do because of your ignorance
if you have a position, be ready to back it up, otherwise all you're doing currently is throwing allegations
ngl the more you try to defend yourself the more you seem like an actual liar
but go on
- 2,471
- 1,795
Also im looking at Hanamis profile why their lifting strength unknown??
Its weird since Josuke has unknown lifting strength
funny part is Okuyasu has the best lifting strength so the hand can choke Hanami while going toe to toe w dagon in lifting strength
Its weird since Josuke has unknown lifting strength
funny part is Okuyasu has the best lifting strength so the hand can choke Hanami while going toe to toe w dagon in lifting strength
- 2,471
- 1,795
Hey can you both go take this in dms or on discord or something?
- 1,706
- 1,323
i guess i'm being an annoyance
i will simply leave then, but i'm just annoyed that me and some other friends of mine are being unfairly accused of ignoring arguments despite the effort we made in that thread to address all the available points presented
i just didn't feel like letting off what seemed to be a lie pass by without doing anything, sorry about that.
i will ignore him next time he replies, please you all have a nice day
i'm sorry for the annoyance, but i felt this was necessary
- 4,728
- 3,877
If Josuke's Crazy Diamond can counter the effects of Idle Transfiguration then Mahito could actually work. Maybe Josuke and Koichi can't kill Mahito, but Okuyasu erasing him should definitely be beyond what Mahito can come back from. I mean, this would mean that, at least at first, doesn't seem too stompy for any side?
- 5,419
- 4,854
I mean not suprising. Dragon Ball had unknown lifting strength until recently. I'm gonna bet that out of all the stats LS is the most neglected.Also im looking at Hanamis profile why their lifting strength unknown??
Its weird since Josuke has unknown lifting strength
funny part is Okuyasu has the best lifting strength so the hand can choke Hanami while going toe to toe w dagon in lifting strength
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 26,554
- 12,482
I don't think it works like that. I'm pretty sure you need a very specific kind of NPI to hurt Cursed Spirits.
- 7,349
- 6,816
ye stands are different from the user so they dont get affected (if im nkt wrong)
- 7,824
- 11,757
@LegendariumOfLies
This is a warning for toxicity.
It's unacceptable to curse out other members, make crude sexual remarks, and troll them and call them 'your victim' which I'm not sure the exact implications of but definitely points to you knowing you're doing something wrong.
If you feel someone is making a false accusation towards you, please remain calm and address it rationally, resolve it privately with a staff member, make a report to the RVRT, or really do anything other than escalate the argument into outright hostility.
(Links for mods: 1 2)
This is a warning for toxicity.
It's unacceptable to curse out other members, make crude sexual remarks, and troll them and call them 'your victim' which I'm not sure the exact implications of but definitely points to you knowing you're doing something wrong.
If you feel someone is making a false accusation towards you, please remain calm and address it rationally, resolve it privately with a staff member, make a report to the RVRT, or really do anything other than escalate the argument into outright hostility.
(Links for mods: 1 2)
- 2,471
- 1,795
It could work but I think I might do Hanami simply because the idea of Hanami getting PTSD from Josuke and Okuyasu fidgeting with Stray Cat as Koichis watching is funny
- 2,471
- 1,795
Lowkey I be getting pissed when I see a matchup or a death battle concept that I really like but I find out that it is the most one sided fight ever seen
I saw the idea of Sukuna vs Kishin Asura and it goes so hard and has become one of the matchups I like for Sukuna until I see the debate and its one sided as ****
I saw the idea of Sukuna vs Kishin Asura and it goes so hard and has become one of the matchups I like for Sukuna until I see the debate and its one sided as ****
Mahek_The_Assassin_Silent_Killer
Any/All- 2,048
- 920
(VSBW/FCOC/JB/AB) General Chat Thread For Everyone In This Forum And Across The Wikis!
... I'm honestly hoping to 1: get to chat with everyone in this forum and 2: get to know everyone better, so I'm making this thread (which is free and open to everyone, though of course, the general rules still apply). This could serve as a place for everyone to more or less chat amongst each...
Birthday Thread For Everyone!
To anyone who wants to celebrate their birthday in the Forum with other people, this space is made for you all! Mostly making this cause while there IS a tab showing who has their birthday on the current day, it's not automatically visible to everyone.... Actually it might be possible to ask...
Wish I could get these pinned... or at least find a way to start more conversations and get more activity in there welp. (It's too quiet.)
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 18,639
- 16,185
Listen to a Cocteau Twins album. That helps me chill out most of the time
Though honestly my insomnia is usually paranoia about figures in the dark and what not, and nothing can really help that when I experience it. It is what it is though
Though honestly my insomnia is usually paranoia about figures in the dark and what not, and nothing can really help that when I experience it. It is what it is though
- 1,706
- 1,323
Mahek_The_Assassin_Silent_Killer
Any/All- 2,048
- 920
I'm honestly wondering if a worldwide "sword of Damocles" situation is seriously necessary for the screwy crap (resentment, distrust, greed, ambition, selfishness, power-hunger, conflict, discrimination, prejudice, bias, etc, vices and mistakes and errors and general stuff that cause harm to the world and the resulting long-lasting, potentially intergenerational, trauma and scars and damage that such issues cause) occuring in the world to stop.
I've even been contemplating if such a situation should legitimately occur via advocating the construction of means to potentially set off a doomsday scenario....
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
But at the same time I'm so damn tired of the world dividing itself into sides that idolise and vilify each other and themselves on so many boundaries (characteristics, backgrounds, beliefs, etc) ON TOP OF all the aforementioned screwy crap, and tired of the idea that violence and punishment, or what amounts to us having to hurt each other to STOP us from hurting each other, is necessary to maintain the status quo or keep the world intact and operating smoothly when there should be better ways to both benefit the world and all that exists in it AND prevent any form of detriment to said world and all that exists in it...
Which also makes me wonder why the hell we need a common unifying threat or issue at hand for us to be united and at peace in the first place. (Seriously, Life and Art, or Fiction and the Real World, affect each other A LOT.)
(AND EVEN MORE SERIOUSLY, WE HAVE MORE FUNDAMENTAL SIMILARITIES THAN DIFFERENCES.
WE ARE ALL HUMAN.
WE ARE ALL ALIVE.
WE ALL EXIST.
EVEN WHEN WE STOP LIVING WE LEAVE TRACES OF OUR EXISTENCE.
SO MAKE THOSE TRACES GOOD.)
HECK, WE'VE EVEN HAD SIMILAR IDEALOGIES AND VIEWS OF VIRTUES, VICES AND ETHICS/MORALITY ACROSS ALL OUR SEPARATE BELIEFS THROUGHOUT HISTORY:
If you need a bigger image, here's the link:
www.scarboromissions.ca
More info here:
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
There's a better version called the Platinum Rule, as explained in the links below to certain sections of the Golden Rule page, but generally the idea is to help and aid one another, and in a more simplistic sense, decrease negativity and increase positivity in each other's lives:
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
(Yes I am going beyond humanity alone when I say "the world and all that exists in it" (I would even consider/add limitless worlds and all that exist in them if parallel worlds do indeed exist) cause screw anthropocentrism, this is also sorta coming from a perspective inspired by cosmology and utopian studies or essentially a desire to see the world as a whole becoming and staying as/being the best version of itself, which also extends to all that exists in it.)
(And speaking of which, yeah this includes abolishing all the capital punishment and means of inflicting retribution on criminals too, but that would also mean not having criminals or crimes in the first place cause then we'd be trying to prevent harm against any being that exists in the world in the first place, in case anyone thinks I'm being a hypocrite, because right now I'm also trying to find a way to both refute my previous view about treatment of criminals while still viewing it from the perspective and intent of trying to make the world a better place by both increasing good/positive stuff and decreasing bad/negative stuff.)
(And I'm not trying to be utilitarian about it because I know honestly there's stuff that clearly has more good effects than bad effects, stuff that clearly has more bad effects than good effects, AND stuff that has both good and bad effects in equal measure, but I'm trying to figure out how to maximise the good/positive effects and minimise the bad/positive effects while allowing all these types of stuff to exist.)
(And I know all this sounds extremely simplistic and naive and childish and idealistic, but honestly we need more child-like wonder and idealism balanced with mature nuance and practicality/pragmatism so this world can become a better place.)
And then there's stuff like this:
Was thinking about all this stuff quite a lot today (in addition to having thought about it in the past), particularly after the stuff that's happened up till now, and I want to talk with peeps about it cause I feel like it needs to be discussed or would make a (hopefully) useful conversation topic, and also cause I want to basically let off steam/pressure/stress and advocate against negativity/bad emotions and in favour of decreasing said negativity/bad stuff and whatnot and, at the same time, advocate for positivity and good stuff and in favour of increasing said positivity/good stuff, hopefully after reading the above it makes sense, I thought it'd belong here since it's also a rant thread compared to my general chat thread welp.
Also I'd appreciate if no one accuses me of soapboxing or attention-seeking or throwing a pity-party, or generally holds any sort of preconceived negative notion about this message when reading and responding to it. I've seen enough crap about flame wars and heated arguments coming out of said notions, and this is a genuine plea for both understanding and discussion about this sort of stuff because I honestly sincerely believe it's necessary for all of us to actually contemplate on.
Hope none of the stuff here breaches any rules per se, and I beg of you all to hear me out and understand where I'm coming from, and I promise I will do the same for you all.
I've even been contemplating if such a situation should legitimately occur via advocating the construction of means to potentially set off a doomsday scenario....
List of global issues - Wikipedia
Doomsday device - Wikipedia
But at the same time I'm so damn tired of the world dividing itself into sides that idolise and vilify each other and themselves on so many boundaries (characteristics, backgrounds, beliefs, etc) ON TOP OF all the aforementioned screwy crap, and tired of the idea that violence and punishment, or what amounts to us having to hurt each other to STOP us from hurting each other, is necessary to maintain the status quo or keep the world intact and operating smoothly when there should be better ways to both benefit the world and all that exists in it AND prevent any form of detriment to said world and all that exists in it...
Which also makes me wonder why the hell we need a common unifying threat or issue at hand for us to be united and at peace in the first place. (Seriously, Life and Art, or Fiction and the Real World, affect each other A LOT.)
(AND EVEN MORE SERIOUSLY, WE HAVE MORE FUNDAMENTAL SIMILARITIES THAN DIFFERENCES.
WE ARE ALL HUMAN.
WE ARE ALL ALIVE.
WE ALL EXIST.
EVEN WHEN WE STOP LIVING WE LEAVE TRACES OF OUR EXISTENCE.
SO MAKE THOSE TRACES GOOD.)
HECK, WE'VE EVEN HAD SIMILAR IDEALOGIES AND VIEWS OF VIRTUES, VICES AND ETHICS/MORALITY ACROSS ALL OUR SEPARATE BELIEFS THROUGHOUT HISTORY:
If you need a bigger image, here's the link:
The Golden Rule Poster – A History
www.scarboromissions.ca
More info here:
Golden Rule - Wikipedia
Virtue - Wikipedia
Vice - Wikipedia
There's a better version called the Platinum Rule, as explained in the links below to certain sections of the Golden Rule page, but generally the idea is to help and aid one another, and in a more simplistic sense, decrease negativity and increase positivity in each other's lives:
Golden Rule - Wikipedia
Golden Rule - Wikipedia
(Yes I am going beyond humanity alone when I say "the world and all that exists in it" (I would even consider/add limitless worlds and all that exist in them if parallel worlds do indeed exist) cause screw anthropocentrism, this is also sorta coming from a perspective inspired by cosmology and utopian studies or essentially a desire to see the world as a whole becoming and staying as/being the best version of itself, which also extends to all that exists in it.)
(And speaking of which, yeah this includes abolishing all the capital punishment and means of inflicting retribution on criminals too, but that would also mean not having criminals or crimes in the first place cause then we'd be trying to prevent harm against any being that exists in the world in the first place, in case anyone thinks I'm being a hypocrite, because right now I'm also trying to find a way to both refute my previous view about treatment of criminals while still viewing it from the perspective and intent of trying to make the world a better place by both increasing good/positive stuff and decreasing bad/negative stuff.)
(And I'm not trying to be utilitarian about it because I know honestly there's stuff that clearly has more good effects than bad effects, stuff that clearly has more bad effects than good effects, AND stuff that has both good and bad effects in equal measure, but I'm trying to figure out how to maximise the good/positive effects and minimise the bad/positive effects while allowing all these types of stuff to exist.)
(And I know all this sounds extremely simplistic and naive and childish and idealistic, but honestly we need more child-like wonder and idealism balanced with mature nuance and practicality/pragmatism so this world can become a better place.)
And then there's stuff like this:
(Not you Finepoint, you're good, I mean Legendarium and Passersby's argument, no offence to either Legendarium or Passersby too it's just that stuff like this happening quite often in general like in RVR and whatnot is honestly both extremely frustrating and also extremely tragic and unfortunate because this sorta crap could so easily be preventable by just trying to actually understand each other or at least trying to NOT HURT EACH OTHER OR HOLD BELIEFS OR VIEWS THAT YOU KNOW ARE HARMFUL TO EACH OTHER and trying to DIPLOMATICALLY resolve the point of contention, and yet it still happens on top of actual screwed up misdeeds by any one party like harassment and whatnot, and stuff like this happening on the global scale with world leaders and organisations and groups and whatnot is the reason people are dying and generations are being scarred by conflict and resentment - again, refer to aforementioned screwy crap in the first paragraph.)
Was thinking about all this stuff quite a lot today (in addition to having thought about it in the past), particularly after the stuff that's happened up till now, and I want to talk with peeps about it cause I feel like it needs to be discussed or would make a (hopefully) useful conversation topic, and also cause I want to basically let off steam/pressure/stress and advocate against negativity/bad emotions and in favour of decreasing said negativity/bad stuff and whatnot and, at the same time, advocate for positivity and good stuff and in favour of increasing said positivity/good stuff, hopefully after reading the above it makes sense, I thought it'd belong here since it's also a rant thread compared to my general chat thread welp.
Also I'd appreciate if no one accuses me of soapboxing or attention-seeking or throwing a pity-party, or generally holds any sort of preconceived negative notion about this message when reading and responding to it. I've seen enough crap about flame wars and heated arguments coming out of said notions, and this is a genuine plea for both understanding and discussion about this sort of stuff because I honestly sincerely believe it's necessary for all of us to actually contemplate on.
Hope none of the stuff here breaches any rules per se, and I beg of you all to hear me out and understand where I'm coming from, and I promise I will do the same for you all.
Last edited:
Mahek_The_Assassin_Silent_Killer
Any/All- 2,048
- 920
This might be nyctophobia/noctophobia/scotophobia/lygophobia, sort of.
Fear of the dark - Wikipedia
- 5,419
- 4,854
Me and Passerby have buried the hatchet in DMs.
- 12,488
- 16,858
DivineAura44
He/Him- 5,781
- 4,007
For the second year in a row the team I was rooting to win the whole thing lost in the Finals...
This one hurts more than last year for sure, no one believed in this Pacers team and they fought their heart out. Once Haliburton hit that 3rd three, I knew he was on track for a big game. Then Haliburton comes down with one of the worst possible injuries in ball and everything goes to shit.
Maybe basketball isn't for me man, I can't keep doing this to myself.
This one hurts more than last year for sure, no one believed in this Pacers team and they fought their heart out. Once Haliburton hit that 3rd three, I knew he was on track for a big game. Then Haliburton comes down with one of the worst possible injuries in ball and everything goes to shit.
Maybe basketball isn't for me man, I can't keep doing this to myself.
- 14,998
- 10,446
might just be the saddest moment in the entire Pacers franchise history
StarShooter80
He/Him- 6,079
- 4,927
Have you guys ever had a character that you've liked for the longest time but began to kinda become disinterested or annoyed by them? For my it's Invincible. Not saying he's a bad character but that's just my bias
- 2,471
- 1,795
Sometimes its ben 10
Its specific to powerscaling ironically enough but they are the most annoying or are corny at times
Death Battle made it worse w the ben vs green lantern fight because I have seen people say that Death Battle is never good because of Ben vs Hal
I guess godzilla aswell but both are different
Ben 10 fans either ***** and moan about the death battle and say that death battle is biased and never good
Godzilla fans would use non canon material or nickpick stuff to wank Godzilla to like outerversal
Mahek_The_Assassin_Silent_Killer
Any/All- 2,048
- 920
I'm sorry but this do be funny. (One staff member warning not to bypass slur filter followed by another staff member cursing.)
I barely follow sports other than combat sports (though am relatively aware of peeps and organisations in soccer/football, rugby, basketball, baseball, cricket, golf, etc to varying degrees), but oof I feel bad for you all AND the Pacers from this alone.
Honestly there's a lot of characters that would be likeable at first but then as times go on either they become uninteresting or straight up dislikeable either due to fictional or real life reasons, and it's both a personal/individual and communal/collective sort of occurence really. Hard to answer this myself, so I'd rather go with a general answer saying that, yeah, it happens.
Mahek_The_Assassin_Silent_Killer
Any/All- 2,048
- 920
^Also, yes to Passersby, I have had times where I felt like I would not be able to sleep the entire day, and I just try to last until the next day so I can properly sleep then, and there may be lots of insomniacs here beside us 3 too so we may not be alone. (I try to lucid dream while trying to sleep usually, as in consciously dream while transitioning from being awake to being asleep. Of course, methods depend on a LOT of factors including the people themselves and their environments and stuff so case-by-case basis welp.)
Also now I'm curious as to whether Monke experiences that paranoia when closing their eyes depending on how long they're closed until opening (interval between any two openings of the eyes)... cause there's also times where we can still see light through our eyelids and also other optical phenomena like flashes, floaters, etc etc etc that can make our perception and sensation be wack at times.
(And if we consider other factors like physical and mental health and conditions, a LOT of other stuff can probably occur to our perception and sensation too...)
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 18,639
- 16,185
I know nobody cares but I beat Pikmin 1 and got the best ending
Pretty fun and engaging game, I'd give it a 7/10.
Gonna move on to the second game later today
Pretty fun and engaging game, I'd give it a 7/10.
Gonna move on to the second game later today
- 1,746
- 1,470
I hate it when this happens. Basically, when I’m not supposed to wake up early for something, it’s easy to fall asleep even if I don’t want to. But when I have to wake up early, I just can’t sleep or even feel like sleeping.
- 7,824
- 11,757
It's the anxiety.
Kurokitomo
He/Him- 2,214
- 1,585
CodeCCLL
He/Him- 3,338
- 2,258
Popular/Controversial Verses and the Determination Thereof
I mentioned this idea here when (at least one) user(s) complained that guidelines on what constitutes a popular verse wasn't clear, in regards to requiring a greater staff presence to pass CRTs. I am not aiming to create specific guidelines, that they are vague leaves it to our judgement rather...
Similar threads
