PLEASE HELP ME UNDERSTAND DIMENSIONAL SCALING!!!

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

Ok, so I'm really only doing this to find people who can dummy it down for me but, my understanding is as follows:

low 2-C to 2-A: 1 instance of 4-D up to infinite 4-D

low 1-C up to High 1-B: dimensions are different axis of being that infinitely surpass each other, 5-D is 5 infinity layers beneath 10-D, up to the max of infinite dimensionality which is the limit to standard world order and mathematical possibility

Low 1-A to 1-A: The being of completely surpassing standard world order and math/science to a degree that you are similar to things like Aleph numbers and inaccessible cardinals, up to the maximum of being able to see any law or rule of reality as a trivial thing that you can see as a state of fiction/insignificance, these two surpass natural law by being unbound by anything, including dimensionality, having their own hierarchal superior law that lies beyond anything below

Now, here's my problem, I'm pretty confident in what I've just written, but...WHAT THE HELL IS HIGH 1-A AND TEIR 0?!

My current understanding is...eeeehhhhhhhhh that,

High 1-A: The superiority of any possible restraining factor aside from others like you, not governed by the way of things, but rather, by each other, the immeasurable surpassing of any of the below, ESPECIALLY ALL 1-A things

Teir 0: The order itself, not bound to anything or by any limit, but rather, the actual thing that CAUSES the limit to exist, superior to the very idea of being comprehensible and being literally indomitable to any of the former, with absolutely NO EQUALS, only aspects that are all still you, all is you, and you are superior to all

My problem with these two is that I swear that they aren't right, and that pisses me off, I WANT to know what these mean, but the pages that help explain could seriously do with a TLDR for dummies. Am I right about ANY of this? Could someone provide explanations for the things I got wrong, PLEASE HELP, I DOWNT KNOOOOOOOOWWWW!!!

 

[Napoleondevious]

ill ignore all previous tier explanation, not that theyre bad but i aint reading it, you seem to be confident on understanding them

High 1-A: The superiority of any possible restraining factor aside from others like you, not governed by the way of things, but rather, by each other, the immeasurable surpassing of any of the below, ESPECIALLY ALL 1-A things

no not really but that can be a description that fits h 1a in a narrative
high outerverse is when 1-A layers becomes irrelevent, the 1-A to dimensions analogy isnt the same as r>f difference, instead it compares the system in each layers itself
so imagine a tower of r>f, first layer is us, second is 1-A, third is one layer into 1-A ... etc, all possible extensions wouldnt be able to grasp high 1-A, its outside the tower ranges

Teir 0: The order itself, not bound to anything or by any limit, but rather, the actual thing that CAUSES the limit to exist, superior to the very idea of being comprehensible and being literally indomitable to any of the former, with absolutely NO EQUALS, only aspects that are all still you, all is you, and you are superior to all

This page can help

My problem with these two is that I swear that they aren't right, and that pisses me off, I WANT to know what these mean, but the pages that help explain could seriously do with a TLDR for dummies. Am I right about ANY of this? Could someone provide explanations for the things I got wrong, PLEASE HELP, I DOWNT KNOOOOOOOOWWWW!!!

fr fr, this page can help you understand the tiering system in its entirety, its interesting anyway so you should take a look

 

[FinePoint]

1-A: Superior in a way that can't be expressed in numbers or dimensions.
High 1-A: Literally just 1-A but a second time.
Tier 0: So superior you defy being classified to begin with. Any classification is irrelevant. Even qualitative hierarchy is irrelevant. You're above logic itself.

 

[SweetDao]

High 1-A: Literally just 1-A but a second time.

This is more complicated than this tho. It's having a "higher quality" regarding a 1-A realm. Simply "R>F" above a 1-A realm doesn't suffice.

 

[Frey_Starlight]

High 1-A: The superiority of any possible restraining factor aside from others like you, not governed by the way of things, but rather, by each other, the immeasurable surpassing of any of the below, ESPECIALLY ALL 1-A things

Teir 0: The order itself, not bound to anything or by any limit, but rather, the actual thing that CAUSES the limit to exist, superior to the very idea of being comprehensible and being literally indomitable to any of the former, with absolutely NO EQUALS, only aspects that are all still you, all is you, and you are superior to all

My problem with these two is that I swear that they aren't right, and that pisses me off, I WANT to know what these mean, but the pages that help explain could seriously do with a TLDR for dummies. Am I right about ANY of this? Could someone provide explanations for the things I got wrong, PLEASE HELP, I DOWNT KNOOOOOOOOWWWW!!!

High 1-A simply can be understand by a state or level of existence that surpass 1-A, in the same way as 1-A surpasses low 2-C in pure quality. And this High 1-A can go endlessly higher in meta-quality -> meta-meta-......-quality.
Now there are types in High 1-A+ which encompasses larger logical spaces to all logical spaces. (but it is not relevant for the question you have so you can ignore it)
Tier 0 is basically what you said but there are certain criteria thats stated in Omnipotence they are like the background actuator of everything and every quality while also being the higher source of it and also being the most fundamental, singular by being beyond all dichotomy as they transcends every ontological layer of reality, being completely immutable, indivisible and things like that.

 

[FinePoint]

This is more complicated than this tho. It's having a "higher quality" regarding a 1-A realm. Simply "R>F" above a 1-A realm doesn't suffice.

"Characters or objects who transcend 1-A characters in the same vein that 1-A characters transcend the rest of the system."

This would imply that if a R>F difference is 1-A then a second R>F difference would be High 1-A.

You can have qualitative superiority over 1-A and still be 1-A if it's in the vein of something similar to like a higher dimension, but to truly view something as fiction is fundamentally more trivializing than any math could model- since it's to the extent that thing literally doesn't even exist from your perspective.

If you have a "higher quality" in mind more meaningful than that, then feel free to share it with me, but I don't see how that would be possible.

 

[SweetDao]

This would imply that if a R>F difference is 1-A then a second R>F difference would be High 1-A.

That's the thing, no. If the first realm sees the baseline reality as "fiction" (without any antifeat and such) it becomes 1-A. If, then, another realm sees the last one as fiction, it's one layer into 1-A, not High 1-A. The hierarchy can go on and on infinitely, or more if you wish.

You can have qualitative superiority over 1-A and still be 1-A if it's in the vein of something similar to like a higher dimension, but to truly view something as fiction is fundamentally more trivializing than any math could model- since it's to the extent that thing literally doesn't even exist from your perspective.

Indeed, but if the "framework" of the higher realities is settled as "reality-fiction difference", just seeing "a lower layer or the whole structure as fiction" isn't enough to change quality.

To put it bluntly. Assume a verse with any arbitrary amount of dimension. It's obvious that 13 dimensions is "bigger" than 12D, right? Well, what if there is an infinite number of dimensions (spatial ones) and then, I say that one of them is above all of the rest, completely inaccessible for them. Well, no matter what, it would be, at most, only higher into High 1-B/+ because, despite the massive gap between the two, the highest dimension is still a dimension, a spatial dimension.

This is the same with quality-based hierarchies. If you have a hierarchy of reality-fiction realms, with an additional realm seeing "everything else" as fiction, it's not High 1-A, it's further into 1-A+. It's not because instead of doing n+1, the newest realm does infinity+1 that it's "different" in quality.

If you have a "higher quality" in mind more meaningful than that, then feel free to share it with me, but I don't see how that would be possible.

I suggest reading the (big ass long) blog of Ultima regarding this. But to quote specifically:

Yet, there may also be similar hierarchies in 1-A itself, the levels of which have qualitative transcendences amongst each other as well. Thus, though a qualitatively greater domain surpasses the genus of quantity, still it is embedded within a broader genus of its own. And although the difference between any two of these levels is essential, still there is a broad, generic quiddity that applies uniformly to all its levels, which are then specifications of it in accordance with their degree of reality. To put it more precisely: The levels differ in species, but share a common genus.

So, for example: for three 1-A layers, A > B > C, each of them is nothing but "Generic Attribute + Specific Attribute A," "Generic Attribute + Specific Attribute B" and "Generic Attribute + Specific Attribute C." A High 1-A being is something that surpasses not only the specific attributes corresponding to the lower layers, but also the generic attribute defining the whole series of layers, and any potential other layers that can possibly spring from it. It is exactly how 1-A itself transcends the genus that defines all possible dimensional levels (Quantity).

First line is also why Umineko shouldn't have been High 1-A, but I digress.

 

[FinePoint]

That's the thing, no. If the first realm sees the baseline reality as "fiction" (without any antifeat and such) it becomes 1-A. If, then, another realm sees the last one as fiction, it's one layer into 1-A, not High 1-A. The hierarchy can go on and on infinitely, or more if you wish.

Actually viewing something as fiction already includes trivializing any possible extension of its framework. If it didn't, it wouldn't really be fictional.

That is to say: if something is actually fictional to me, it's literally impossible for it and I to be part of the same framework, since I'm real and it's not. Any logical extensions from the thing which isn't real will remain not real, and therefore always be a quality below me.

 

[SweetDao]

Actually viewing something as fiction already includes trivializing any possible extension of its framework. If it didn't, it wouldn't really be fictional.

It only bypasses the subjective quality of a single layer. A 1-A realm, by default, can't be extended toward a 1-A+ level within itself.

That is to say: if something is actually fictional to me, it's literally impossible for it and I to be part of the same framework, since I'm real and it's not. Any logical extensions from the thing which isn't real will remain not real, and therefore always be a quality below me.

Indeed. However, you have a common genus. "Realness". While the "fictional realm" would have "1", you would have "2". No matter how far you go, there is always another common genus/denominator, no matter the hierarchies or the layers.

Therefore, while a 1-A realm (R>F) transcend the genus of quantity (to some degree), it doesn't transcend the genus of "R>F" itself. Any subsequent layer of such a hierarchy is only doing n+1 using this genus. The same thing a baseline reality does with dimensions. (n+1D).

 

[SweetDao]

At one point, there was this image created to explain stuff:

 

[FinePoint]

Therefore, while a 1-A realm (R>F) transcend the genus of quantity (to some degree), it doesn't transcend the genus of "R>F" itself. Any subsequent layer of such a hierarchy is only doing n+1 using this genus. The same thing a baseline reality does with dimensions. (n+1D).

Transcending the genus of R>F itself would be more of a Tier 0 thing.

Our tiering system is based on energy and destructive capability, and the higher tiers are an extrapolation of that.

If we change the metric by which we measure in the middle of it we render the entire thing subjective and useless.

 

[SweetDao]

Transcending the genus of R>F itself would be more of a Tier 0 thing.

No, because "R>F" is only one of multiple genus possible.

Above it, you could have a High 1-A realm that is "beyond/above the duality of reality and fiction".

Our tiering system is based on energy and destructive capability, and the higher tiers are an extrapolation of that.

Higher tiers are very much philosophical, it's still based on "destructive capability", but also level of existence. Especially the latter when it comes to 1-A and above.

If we change the metric by which we measure in the middle of it we render the entire thing subjective and useless.

It's just the metric of a single "hierarchy".

From 11-C to Low 1-A (including or excluding it, depend on your point of view) it's physicality, dimensionality, whatever.

From 1-A to 1-A+, it can be realness, dreams, shadows, truth, importance, ... Well, whatever dwarf the lower layers as "nothing" more or less. The exact name or genus isn't important, as long as the difference between the lower and higher reality is "big enough".

From High 1-A to arbitrarily high into High 1-A, it's the same thing. Anything you can think of as long as it fits the bill.

 

[FinePoint]

Snip.

You're assuming the first and second R>F difference are part of the same framework, which is almost never true.

They're called the same thing, but one is fundamentally more real than the other. You're getting far too caught up in the semantics.

The second R>F isn't actually the same difference as the first one, it's larger, since even the first difference is fictional from the perspective of the second one.

Why would we require them to change the name for no reason? We'd just be making sure almost nothing ever qualifies unless they read our tiering system and try really hard to- which is completely against the spirit of this wiki, which aims to catalogue fiction as-is, meaning: if High 1-A can't apply to a significant number of unrelated verses we might as well just delete it, but that's not the case.

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

just to ask then, lets say:
1. there's a court of gods who all stand above natural law and completely surpass dimensionality as a whole, they are the keepers/guardians of a type 4 universe that they could theoretically destroy

2. the "theoretically" comes from the fact that they have supervisors who stand at a fundamentally superior level to them, to the point that they couldnt even scratch this supervisor if they had an infinite army, however, the supervisor could end an infinite army of them all at once with little trouble

3. These supervisors act as the workers for the fundamental gods, these creatures lie even higher to #2 than #2 did to #1, to such an extent that they know that their power isn't even insignificant to them, its literally viewed as a negative value by comparison, these, now dubbed "Fundamentals", are at the apex of all that can be conceived and thought of by any mind, they are known as the very limit for what is possible without being their Father

4. The Father, above all the below absolutely and unequivocally, not a single meager atom (the way he views all the below) could make him look the other way, to the point that he must actively remind himself not to accidentally end all of what is, as no conceivable theory, thought, or idea, even brought to life, can surpass the absolute one himself, The Father is not called a god as that is an insulting limiter to what he truely is

NOW, I need brutal honesty, did I even get CLOSE to High 1-A, let alone 0.....

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

SweetDao is correct, but this thread has a bit of a….. “goofy intent” so to speak…..

 

[SweetDao]

You're assuming the first and second R>F difference are part of the same framework, which is almost never true.

They both operate under the "realness" quality. Baseline reality is less real than 1-A realm that is less real than the second 1-A realm.

They're called the same thing, but one is fundamentally more real than the other. You're getting far too caught up in the semantics.

Yes, the second realm is "more real" than the first one. They both use the same logic, the same genus, the same framework.

The second R>F isn't actually the same difference as the first one, it's larger, since even the first difference is fictional from the perspective of the second one.

I 100% agree with you, the second realm blitz the first one, it's not even comparable (logic) but...it's the same thing that the first realm did with baseline reality. Between each "R>F" realm, there is already an "unimaginable gap". But again.

Baseline reality is based on dimensions. It can have one, two, three, whatever.

The 1-A reality would trivialize that one and all of its concepts due to having a higher quality (let's say, it's more real).

Now, the second 1-A reality would trivialize the first one to a higher degree (this is what you said earlier), but it doesn't mean it transcends the very "logic" of "realness".

The baseline reality would have 1 in "realness factor".
The first 1-A reality would have 2
The second one would have 3
You can continue ad-infinitum. This is the common denominator of the hierarchy, "realness".
Each subsequent layer has a "bigger gap" than the last one, for sure, but the logic itself stays the same. It's obvious that 1+1 would amount to less than 82+1, right? Well, that's the same logic here.

The act itself doesn't change; only the degree does.

This is explained directly here:

Yet, there may also be similar hierarchies in 1-A itself, the levels of which have qualitative transcendences amongst each other as well. Thus, though a qualitatively greater domain surpasses the genus of quantity, still it is embedded within a broader genus of its own. And although the difference between any two of these levels is essential, still there is a broad, generic quiddity that applies uniformly to all its levels, which are then specifications of it in accordance with their degree of reality. To put it more precisely: The levels differ in species, but share a common genus.

----

Why would we require them to change the name for no reason? We'd just be making sure almost nothing ever qualifies unless they read our tiering system and try really hard to- which is completely against the spirit of this wiki, which aims to catalogue fiction as-is, meaning: if High 1-A can't apply to a significant number of unrelated verses we might as well just delete it, but that's not the case.

The name isn't important in and on itself, it's what it does that matters. If a verse doesn't have "higher dimensions" but has a substitute that effectively functions the same way, we would scale it into tier 1 territory. This applies to 1-A and above as well. "R>F" is used almost everywhere because it's the easiest way to understand the concept, but "higher qualities" aren't limited to this.

 

[FinePoint]

Snip.

I'll probably stop going back and forth at this point, since I feel like we're not making progress.

What I'll say is this: "Characters or objects who transcend 1-A characters in the same vein that 1-A characters transcend the rest of the system."

This is the definition of the tier.

Therefore, regardless of what Ultima's rambling say: "This High 1-A character views the 1-A character as fiction in the same way the 1-A character views the rest of the system as fiction." is a one-to-one fit.

If that's not what was intended, then it's literally written wrong, in which case it wouldn't be my fault for describing it "wrong".

Also:

Further, nothing prevents a 1-A from having some commonality of genus with a High 1-A, or a 10-B from having commonality in genus with a 1-A, as none of these beings transcend genera absolutely, but relatively.

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

snip

just to ask then, lets say:
1. there's a court of gods who all stand above natural law and completely surpass dimensionality as a whole, they are the keepers/guardians of a type 4 universe that they could theoretically destroy

2. the "theoretically" comes from the fact that they have supervisors who stand at a fundamentally superior level to them, to the point that they couldnt even scratch this supervisor if they had an infinite army, however, the supervisor could end an infinite army of them all at once with little trouble

3. These supervisors act as the workers for the fundamental gods, these creatures lie even higher to #2 than #2 did to #1, to such an extent that they know that their power isn't even insignificant to them, its literally viewed as a negative value by comparison, these, now dubbed "Fundamentals", are at the apex of all that can be conceived and thought of by any mind, they are known as the very limit for what is possible without being their Father

4. The Father, above all the below absolutely and unequivocally, not a single meager atom (the way he views all the below) could make him look the other way, to the point that he must actively remind himself not to accidentally end all of what is, as no conceivable theory, thought, or idea, even brought to life, can surpass the absolute one himself, The Father is not called a god as that is an insulting limiter to what he truely is

NOW, I need brutal honesty, did I even get CLOSE to High 1-A, let alone 0.....

so what about this?

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

just to ask then, lets say:
1. there's a court of gods who all stand above natural law and completely surpass dimensionality as a whole, they are the keepers/guardians of a type 4 universe that they could theoretically destroy

2. the "theoretically" comes from the fact that they have supervisors who stand at a fundamentally superior level to them, to the point that they couldnt even scratch this supervisor if they had an infinite army, however, the supervisor could end an infinite army of them all at once with little trouble

3. These supervisors act as the workers for the fundamental gods, these creatures lie even higher to #2 than #2 did to #1, to such an extent that they know that their power isn't even insignificant to them, its literally viewed as a negative value by comparison, these, now dubbed "Fundamentals", are at the apex of all that can be conceived and thought of by any mind, they are known as the very limit for what is possible without being their Father

4. The Father, above all the below absolutely and unequivocally, not a single meager atom (the way he views all the below) could make him look the other way, to the point that he must actively remind himself not to accidentally end all of what is, as no conceivable theory, thought, or idea, even brought to life, can surpass the absolute one himself, The Father is not called a god as that is an insulting limiter to what he truely is

NOW, I need brutal honesty, did I even get CLOSE to High 1-A, let alone 0.....

cuz i am really curious

 

[FinePoint]

just to ask then, lets say:
1. there's a court of gods who all stand above natural law and completely surpass dimensionality as a whole, they are the keepers/guardians of a type 4 universe that they could theoretically destroy

Low 1-A

2. the "theoretically" comes from the fact that they have supervisors who stand at a fundamentally superior level to them, to the point that they couldnt even scratch this supervisor if they had an infinite army, however, the supervisor could end an infinite army of them all at once with little trouble

Higher into Low 1-A

3. These supervisors act as the workers for the fundamental gods, these creatures lie even higher to #2 than #2 did to #1, to such an extent that they know that their power isn't even insignificant to them, its literally viewed as a negative value by comparison, these, now dubbed "Fundamentals", are at the apex of all that can be conceived and thought of by any mind, they are known as the very limit for what is possible without being their Father

1-A

4. The Father, above all the below absolutely and unequivocally, not a single meager atom (the way he views all the below) could make him look the other way, to the point that he must actively remind himself not to accidentally end all of what is, as no conceivable theory, thought, or idea, even brought to life, can surpass the absolute one himself, The Father is not called a god as that is an insulting limiter to what he truely is

Higher into 1-A

 

[SweetDao]

I'll probably stop going back and forth at this point, since I feel like we're not making progress.

What I'll say is this: "Characters or objects who transcend 1-A characters in the same vein that 1-A characters transcend the rest of the system."

This is the definition of the tier.

Therefore, regardless of what Ultima's rambling say: "This High 1-A character views the 1-A character as fiction in the same way the 1-A character views the rest of the system as fiction." is a one-to-one fit.

If that's not what was intended, then it's literally written wrong, in which case it wouldn't be my fault for describing it "wrong".

It is written wrong, or at least, it is written in a way people mistook it very much. I was also in that situation at one point, and I'm surprised no one took some time to change the phrasing even just a little bit.

 

[FinePoint]

It is written wrong, or at least, it is written in a way people mistook it very much. I was also in that situation at one point, and I'm surprised no one took some time to change the phrasing even just a little bit.

Well if you truly believe that, make a staff thread about it.

Otherwise, I can't exactly advise people against what is written on the official Tiering System in favor of a random blog Ultima made.

 

[SweetDao]

Well if you truly believe that, make a staff thread about it.

Do I take it as a permission from you?

Otherwise, I can't exactly advise people against what is written on the official Tiering System in favor of a random blog Ultima made.

Trust me, the fact that that blog isn't "official" is truly baffling. Like, he explained everything in it, but somehow... just didn't care to show it, ig? Or well, he did, to some people over discord and such, but well, it remains pretty hidden when everyone would benefit it. (Maybe he just wanted to perfect it? idk...)

 

[FinePoint]

Do I take it as a permission from you?

Well, you should probably get permission from an admin for a change that fundamental.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Just don't ask Agnaa.

 

[FinePoint]

Just don't ask Agnaa.

Why not?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Why not?

It’s an inside joke about how much he wants before you can actually do any sort of system-wide changes.

 

[ElajRuengies]

In terms of application in practice rather than strict definition:

Baseline 1-A: (Qualitative Superiority) Character is inherently more "real" than the rest of the setting. Methods include:

• The setting is all their dream.
• The setting is a story they're writing.
• The setting is based on platonic concept shtick, where temporary phenomenon merely participate in embodying timeless concepts; all knives are echoes of The Knife.
• Etc...

1-A + One Layer: Repeat that process again.

• The ultimate dreamer is itself the dream of an even realer dreamer.
• The author themself is the creation of a higher author.
• The concept of a particular thing derives it's qualities by participating in a higher concept; The Knife, The Sword, The Axe are all echoes of Sharpness.
• Etc...

1-A+: Repeat that process infinite times, and put someone/something on top of that infinitely tall stack.

• An infinite stack of illusionary worlds which are merely the dream of someone in the realer world, which is itself an illusion of the next one.
• Infinite writers being written by the writer above them.
• The Concept of Concepts that all concepts participate in.
• Etc...

High 1-A: (Meta-Qualitative Superiority) The infinite stack of realness is less real than this other thing, but you have to pick a different [Get More Realer] method than before, or else you're just repeating yourself and it's still 1-A+.

• The writer at the top of the infinite stack of writers is all just someone's dream.
• The world governed by the concept of concepts is all just someone's story.
• The dreamer of all dreamers dwells in Plato's Cave, and must wake up to a world governed by platonic concepts.
• Etc.

High 1-A+: (Meta-Meta-Meta-...-Meta Qualitative Superiority) On paper, you get this by applying infinite different methods of [Get More Realer].

• Everything is just a dream of a fiction of a particular of an echo of a shadow of an idea of a vacua of a nothing of an etcetera... of this character.

In practice, nobody does this. Instead it applies when these characters would be omnipotent because they've also got a loads of jargon, but since there's more than one of these in the same cosmology, they can't be, so they're the next rung lower instead.

Tier 0: Character is functionally omnipotent thanks to a butt load of jargon, which means that they're basically everything in this system.

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

In terms of application in practice rather than strict definition:

Baseline 1-A: (Qualitative Superiority) Character is inherently more "real" than the rest of the setting. Methods include:

• The setting is all their dream.
• The setting is a story they're writing.
• The setting is based on platonic concept shtick, where temporary phenomenon merely participate in embodying timeless concepts; all knives are echoes of The Knife.
• Etc...

1-A + One Layer: Repeat that process again.

• The ultimate dreamer is itself the dream of an even realer dreamer.
• The author themself is the creation of a higher author.
• The concept of a particular thing derives it's qualities by participating in a higher concept; The Knife, The Sword, The Axe are all echoes of Sharpness.
• Etc...

1-A+: Repeat that process infinite times, and put someone/something on top of that infinitely tall stack.

• An infinite stack of illusionary worlds which are merely the dream of someone in the realer world, which is itself an illusion of the next one.
• Infinite writers being written by the writer above them.
• The Concept of Concepts that all concepts participate in.
• Etc...

High 1-A: (Meta-Qualitative Superiority) The infinite stack of realness is less real than this other thing, but you have to pick a different [Get More Realer] method than before, or else you're just repeating yourself and it's still 1-A+.

• The writer at the top of the infinite stack of writers is all just someone's dream.
• The world governed by the concept of concepts is all just someone's story.
• The dreamer of all dreamers dwells in Plato's Cave, and must wake up to a world governed by platonic concepts.
• Etc.

High 1-A+: (Meta-Meta-Meta-...-Meta Qualitative Superiority) On paper, you get this by applying infinite different methods of [Get More Realer].

• Everything is just a dream of a fiction of a particular of an echo of a shadow of an idea of a vacua of a nothing of an etcetera... of this character.

In practice, nobody does this. Instead it applies when these characters would be omnipotent because they've also got a loads of jargon, but since there's more than one of these in the same cosmology, they can't be, so they're the next rung lower instead.

Tier 0: Character is functionally omnipotent thanks to a butt load of jargon, which means that they're basically everything in this system.

I can see why people hate tier 1, how can it be so hard and convoluted to represent, but there's so many of them

 

[ElajRuengies]

I can see why people hate tier 1, how can it be so hard and convoluted to represent, but there's so many of them

The premise isn't that complicated, it's just that there's a bajillion different ways to [Get More Realer].

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

OK, so if I got this right,

Some gods lay asleep, dreaming new worlds, only to have them burn away when they wake: baseline 1-A

They exist in an infinite never ending stack of surpassing one another, becoming more “real” than before, up to an infinite extent, some only being brought in due to the dreaming of another higher god that they then surpass completely: 1-A+

The gods of this next realm view all beneath as nothing but a chaotic spectacle, unknowable to those of the realm below. The 2 different types of god HERE are the writers who make an infinite instance of the below examples, just to see how the next infinite realness stack might change, merely a different fictional book that they could read if they wished, acting as the balancers of the whole of creation, introducing more or less of this chaos as needed: High 1-A???

The 7 are the supreme beings of creation, the highest that the title “god” can go before it becomes more of an insult. The 7 stand above all conceptual law and way, sometimes even forgetting about the absolute totality of creation in its infinite insignificance. They aren’t stagnant in their strength however, they are constantly getting stronger even when asleep. Nothing, made up or real can take hold of them, they don’t abide by any order as they transcend all of them, the whole of creation is a never ending set of them being more real than the fictions of the dreamers and writers and the idea of infinitely doing that for all of time, except one: High 1-A+????

The one thing that they can’t be above, this being transcends all of possibility and the totality of both fiction and reality, existing as the endless void that creation sits in, with not even its own 7 being able to know anymore than the fact they can’t know anything at all. They don’t call it a god because that would imply it is bound by anything except the arbitrary rules it puts on its avatars to make existence more entertaining. The very title of “god” isn’t applicable to it, so they gave the one title that can’t ever be taken. The One Above All (got lazy, sue me), this title represents that no matter the context, the power, or age, it will always be able to match and destroy whatever the example if it so wished. This is not because it becomes that powerful, it’s because it was always that powerful, and always will be: tier 0??????????

did i get that right? or am i still off the mark, im just gonna hafta keep doin this until i get it if not

 

[SweetDao]

The 7 are the supreme beings of creation, the highest that the title “god” can go before it becomes more of an insult. The 7 stand above all conceptual law and way, sometimes even forgetting about the absolute totality of creation in its infinite insignificance. They aren’t stagnant in their strength however, they are constantly getting stronger even when asleep. Nothing, made up or real can take hold of them, they don’t abide by any order as they transcend all of them, the whole of creation is a never ending set of them being more real than the fictions of the dreamers and writers and the idea of infinitely doing that for all of time, except one: High 1-A+????

If they are getting stronger, then it means they aren't at the peak of quality. So that wouldn't be High 1-A+.

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

If they are getting stronger, then it means they aren't at the peak of quality. So that wouldn't be High 1-A+.

BUT THEY ARE HIGH 1-A THO, AND I GOT THE TEIR 0 RIGHT?! AM I ACTUALLY BEGINNING TO BELIEVE??!?!??

 

[SweetDao]

BUT THEY ARE HIGH 1-A THO, AND I GOT THE TEIR 0 RIGHT?! AM I ACTUALLY BEGINNING TO BELIEVE??!?!??

I mean, assuming it's High 1-A, they just be higher, not High 1-A+.

And no, I don't think this is enough for tier 0.

 

[DeadlyMonarchChewstheDirt]

I mean, assuming it's High 1-A, they just be higher, not High 1-A+.

And no, I don't think this is enough for tier 0.

Fffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu- ok! But the example is still high 1-A, just not +, I'm fine, I need to stew for a bit and I'll come back with a new example, cuz the only way for me to understand is to know how to make one

 

[SweetDao]

Fffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu- ok! But the example is still high 1-A, just not +, I'm fine, I need to stew for a bit and I'll come back with a new example, cuz the only way for me to understand is to know how to make one

It's simple, really.

Infinite layers of realness (each layer above is "more real" and see the stuff below as inconsequential/nothing/whatever) = 1-A+
Realm/character or whatever that transcend the dichotomy of "real and fake" and is above the rest of the cosmology = High 1-A
Character than can actualize everything describable (all the worlds that can be described, for example), not solely based on a "human understanding" but as a language/logic thing = High 1-A+ type 1.
Something or a place that encompass/embodies the aforementioned worlds = High 1-A+ type 2
"Something" that is eternal, source of everything, undifferentiated, beyond any and all kind of descriptions, power, status, level of existence and stuff = tier 0

Made a very rough summary, obviously, one would need way more information and explanations in-verse, but you get the idea.

 

[FinePoint]

Realm/character or whatever that transcend the dichotomy of "real and fake" and is above the rest of the cosmology = High 1-A

Have you asked for permission to make the thread about this, by the way?

 

[SweetDao]

Have you asked for permission to make the thread about this, by the way?

Oh yeah, I got permission from DDM, but now I have to actually think of an acceptable change in the phrasing or other options. Will definitely take some times to cook it. (Maybe also just make a note about it, so yeah, brainstorming more or less)

 

[FinePoint]

Oh yeah, I got permission from DDM, but now I have to actually think of an acceptable change in the phrasing or other options. Will definitely take some times to cook it. (Maybe also just make a note about it, so yeah, brainstorming more or less)

Looking forward to it. (I will fight against it vehemently.)

 

[SweetDao]

Looking forward to it. (I will fight against it vehemently.)

Fight me!