Questions about High 1-A+

[Jin2188]

So High 1-A+ is defined on the tiering system as follows:

The apex of [High 1-A], represented also by a "+" modifier in their Attack Potency section (High Outerverse level+), corresponds to characters whose power encompasses meta-qualities, meta-meta-qualities, and any and all conceivable extensions of this process, being on a which in which their power influences the space of all logically possible worlds ("Logical space," where the laws governing it are the three laws of thought)

My main question is this: What specifically is required for a setting, character, or cosmology to qualify for this tier? Is a statement about "Modal Realism" or "all possible/conceivable/imaginable worlds" enough, or is further elaboration required?

What about all possible and impossible worlds, like Extended Modal Realism? Would that be superior to baseline High 1-A+, or is it treated the same?

What about cosmologies where "all possible worlds" is not the apex, and there are levels above it?

Is it even possible to go beyond baseline High 1-A+, or is that treated as a hard limit to the size of a setting's cosmology?

 

[SweetDao]

My main question is this: What specifically is required for a setting, character, or cosmology to qualify for this tier? Is a statement about "Modal Realism" or "all possible/conceivable/imaginable worlds" enough, or is further elaboration required?

A word or terminology is never enough. You'd have to prove that the cosmology has something similar to all possible worlds from Modal Realism.

What about all possible and impossible worlds, like Extended Modal Realism? Would that be superior to baseline High 1-A+, or is it treated the same?

Same.

What about cosmologies where "all possible worlds" is not the apex, and there are levels above it?

Not High 1-A+ then.

Is it even possible to go beyond baseline High 1-A+, or is that treated as a hard limit to the size of a setting's cosmology?

Depend. Technically, there are two types of High 1-A+. First one is for characters who can actualize arbitrary large worlds, while the second one is for something that embodies all the worlds (the logical space itself, for example). The second one is portrayed as "stronger", but beside this and omitting tier 0, no, you can't go beyond.

 

[Jin2188]

A word or terminology is never enough. You'd have to prove that the cosmology has something similar to all possible worlds from Modal Realism.

So something like Demon King Daimaō then, where a rigorous definition of the concept is provided?

What about all possible and impossible worlds, like Extended Modal Realism? Would that be superior to baseline High 1-A+, or is it treated the same?

Same.

This doesn't feel right to me, since Modal Realism would only contain every conceivable cosmology, whereas Extended Modal Realism would contain all cosmologies, conceivable or inconceivable. Wouldn't this be "larger" than just all possible worlds?

 

[SweetDao]

So something like Demon King Daimaō then, where a rigorous definition of the concept is provided?

Yeah, but even without the mention of possible worlds (I think it was explained) the whole stuff about every possible stories fits the bill. Obviously, it has more explanation than just this, but overall yeah, it's a good example I'd say.

This doesn't feel right to me, since Modal Realism would only contain every conceivable cosmology, whereas Extended Modal Realism would contain all cosmologies, conceivable or inconceivable. Wouldn't this be "larger" than just all possible worlds?

I mean, if you want to see it like this, you can, Ultima explained that at that point, it doesn't really matter "that much". Maybe the verse would have some additional hax or something (idk, just making assumptions) but beside this, it wouldn't be stronger.

 

[HenshinIntervention]

Depend. Technically, there are two types of High 1-A+. First one is for characters who can actualize arbitrary large worlds, while the second one is for something that embodies all the worlds (the logical space itself, for example). The second one is portrayed as "stronger", but beside this and omitting tier 0, no, you can't go beyond.

Can you explain why the distinction between these two types matter? Like how is one necessarily better

 

[SweetDao]

Can you explain why the distinction between these two types matter? Like how is one necessarily better

I guess, if I can remember the explanation, it's that a character being High 1-A+ (type 1) is "one of the possibility" while the type 2 encompass all those possibilities/world.

Basically... A single element of a set will never be the set itself, kind of analogy?

 

[HenshinIntervention]

I guess, if I can remember the explanation, it's that a character being High 1-A+ (type 1) is "one of the possibility" while the type 2 encompass all those possibilities/world.

Basically... A single element of a set will never be the set itself, kind of analogy?

So like
Type 1 aka someone actualizing possible worlds, is doing it one or a couple at a time. Whereas Type 2 is embodying all possible worlds that ever was altogether?

 

[SweetDao]

So like
Type 1 aka someone actualizing possible worlds, is doing it one or a couple at a time. Whereas Type 2 is embodying all possible worlds that ever was altogether?

Basically, type 1 manipulate the content, while type 2 is the background. iirc, you need to show that they can actualize everything (every world), not just one or two worlds.

All the worlds are inside the logical space. So, while they can manipulate the elements of the set, they can't manipulate the [ 1,2,3,4,5,6,... ] encompassing it. I think, like this, you can understand at a glance why it's "stronger".

 

[Napoleondevious]

So like
Type 1 aka someone actualizing possible worlds, is doing it one or a couple at a time. Whereas Type 2 is embodying all possible worlds that ever was altogether?

thought it was the opposite

 

[HenshinIntervention]

Basically, type 1 manipulate the content, while type 2 is the background. iirc, you need to show that they can actualize everything (every world), not just one or two worlds.

All the worlds are inside the logical space. So, while they can manipulate the elements of the set, they can't manipulate the [ 1,2,3,4,5,6,... ] encompassing it. I think, like this, you can understand at a glance why it's "stronger".

I see

 

[DeathxMoonZ]

A word or terminology is never enough. You'd have to prove that the cosmology has something similar to all possible worlds from Modal Realism.

Same.

Not High 1-A+ then.

Depend. Technically, there are two types of High 1-A+. First one is for characters who can actualize arbitrary large worlds, while the second one is for something that embodies all the

A word or terminology is never enough. You'd have to prove that the cosmology has something similar to all possible worlds from Modal Realism.

Same.

Not High 1-A+ then.

Depend. Technically, there are two types of High 1-A+. First one is for characters who can actualize arbitrary large worlds, while the second one is for something that embodies all the worlds (the logical space itself, for example). The second one is portrayed as "stronger", but beside this and omitting tier 0, no, you can't go beyond.

i know this is old but what does he mean by all possible worlds not being the apex. Is he referring to the character who embodies all possible worlds?

 

[SweetDao]

He's talking about verse that have bullshit stuff like "each layers of R>F has all possible worlds within each of them" or specific cosmology with stuff like impossible world added in it.

 

[DeathxMoonZ]

He's talking about verse that have bullshit stuff like "each layers of R>F has all possible worlds within each of them" or specific cosmology with stuff like impossible world added in it.

Hmmmm i mean would that necessarily contradict anything? Or no? Because i mean my multiverses Transcend each other Qualitatively such as beings within them view the beings below as fiction and are much stronger than the ones below them. These are physical realities btw

 

[SweetDao]

Hmmmm i mean would that necessarily contradict anything? Or no? Because i mean my multiverses Transcend each other Qualitatively such as beings within them view the beings below as fiction and are much stronger than the ones below them. These are physical realities btw

All possible worlds are the apex of the tiering system here (baring tier 0), so yeah, that would be contradictory.

 

[DeathxMoonZ]

All possible worlds are the apex of the tiering system here (baring tier 0), so yeah, that would be contradictory.

So in other words, my multiverses simply don’t need to transcend each other at all?

 

[SweetDao]

So in other words, my multiverses simply don’t need to transcend each other at all?

Basic multiverse are fine, but if you have multiples times "all possible worlds" inside all of them and they each transcend each other, yeah, that just can't work.

 

[DeathxMoonZ]

Basic multiverse are fine, but if you have multiples times "all possible worlds" inside all of them and they each transcend each other, yeah, that just can't work.

Alright so, i’ll revise it and they won’t transcend each other at all but they all will have all possible worlds, they just won’t transcend each other. Also does higher dimensions contradict all possible worlds or is that fine to have?

 

[SweetDao]

Alright so, i’ll revise it and they won’t transcend each other at all but they all will have all possible worlds, they just won’t transcend each other. Also does higher dimensions contradict all possible worlds or is that fine to have?

That doesn't make sense either. You can only have a single set of "all possible worlds". If each multiverse has them, it's contradictory.

Each individual world can have different dimensionality, the set itself can't, all the worlds are "equal".

 

[DeathxMoonZ]

That doesn't make sense either. You can only have a single set of "all possible worlds". If each multiverse has them, it's contradictory.

Each individual world can have different dimensionality, the set itself can't, all the worlds are "equal".

Ohhhhhh my bad didnt understand what you were meaning i thought you meant it was ok to have multiple multiverses. Ok so wait wait, i have a infinite multiverses right? Now that multiverse has uncountable infinite universes now the universes have uncountable infinite higher dimensions so again, all of those universes would all need to have uncountable infinite higher dimensions? By sets you mean the universes?

 

[DeathxMoonZ]

Ohhhhhh my bad didnt understand what you were meaning i thought you meant it was ok to have multiple multiverses. Ok so wait wait, i have a infinite multiverses right? Now that multiverse has uncountable infinite universes now the universes have uncountable infinite higher dimensions so again, all of those universes would all need to have uncountable infinite higher dimensions? By sets you mean the universes?

I meant 1 multiverse theres one not multiple idk why it says multiverses

 

[SweetDao]

Ohhhhhh my bad didnt understand what you were meaning i thought you meant it was ok to have multiple multiverses. Ok so wait wait, i have a infinite multiverses right? Now that multiverse has uncountable infinite universes now the universes have uncountable infinite higher dimensions so again, all of those universes would all need to have uncountable infinite higher dimensions? By sets you mean the universes?

Are you talking about the set of all possible worlds or just random multiverse/universes/dimensions? If the latter, you can do whatever

 

[DeathxMoonZ]

Are you talking about the set of all possible worlds or just random multiverse/universes/dimensions? If the latter, you can do whatever

I think i said it wrong. Ok so theres one infinite multiverse. And that multiverse has uncountable infinite universes with uncountably infinite higher dimensions. So i was wondering if the higher dimensions would contradict the all possible worlds?

 

[SweetDao]

I think i said it wrong. Ok so theres one infinite multiverse. And that multiverse has uncountable infinite universes with uncountably infinite higher dimensions. So i was wondering if the higher dimensions would contradict the all possible worlds?

I'm... Not understanding. Could you explain to me where are the possible worlds located in the cosmology? Because from the description you gave, it seems like a regular cosmology

 

[DeathxMoonZ]

I'm... Not understanding. Could you explain to me where are the possible worlds located in the cosmology? Because from the description you gave, it seems like a regular cosmology

My verse follows modal realism. All possible worlds are located in the multiverse.

 

[SweetDao]

My verse follows modal realism. All possible worlds are located in the multiverse.

Then there is no purpose stating there is X universe or Y multiverses.

Like, basically you're saying "I have a library with all the possible stories inside" and you're following by "well, I have that story which is infinite, that one with an infinite multiverse, that one..." It's pointless.

 

[DeathxMoonZ]

Then there is no purpose stating there is X universe or Y multiverses.

Like, basically you're saying "I have a library with all the possible stories inside" and you're following by "well, I have that story which is infinite, that one with an infinite multiverse, that one..." It's pointless.

Ok now you’re confusing me. All possible worlds can be located in a infinite multiverse right? Don’t count the infinite multiverses exclude that. Im talking about one singular multiverse that has uncountable infinite universes with uncountable infinite higher dimensions. All of this would be in a multiverse. Im not understanding what you’re saying. It seems like we aren’t understanding each other.

 

[SweetDao]

Ok now you’re confusing me. All possible worlds can be located in a infinite multiverse right? Don’t count the infinite multiverses exclude that. Im talking about one singular multiverse that has uncountable infinite universes with uncountable infinite higher dimensions. All of this would be in a multiverse. Im not understanding what you’re saying. It seems like we aren’t understanding each other.

No, all possible worlds (the set itself) WOULD BE the multiverse, not the other way around. Within one of those possible world, there may be "infinite multiverses", whatever number of dimensions or whatever, but that's just a single world.

Like I said, all possible worlds exist at the apex in term of cosmology since it has all the possible qualities, meta qualities, etc etc, you can't have it "in something" (beside the logical space).

 

[Xearesay]

So High 1-A+ is defined on the tiering system as follows:


My main question is this: What specifically is required for a setting, character, or cosmology to qualify for this tier? Is a statement about "Modal Realism" or "all possible/conceivable/imaginable worlds" enough, or is further elaboration required?

What about all possible and impossible worlds, like Extended Modal Realism? Would that be superior to baseline High 1-A+, or is it treated the same?

What about cosmologies where "all possible worlds" is not the apex, and there are levels above it?

Is it even possible to go beyond baseline High 1-A+, or is that treated as a hard limit to the size of a setting's cosmology?

Honestly think of like low 1-A. Every greater dimensionality that is logical, is encompassed in Low 1-A because it’s already all possible dimensional spaces.

High 1-A+, essentially works the same way but for all modes of being, no matter how abstract the existence gets. And this is because the intention of this tiering system was to use lower tiers as catalyst that would hint at something much greater in the system. For example, the shadow of tier 0 in the system is 1-A since 1-A represents a state of existence that transcends not quantitatively but qualitatively. And similarly, Low 1-A is also a catalyst since it alludes to something that rest much higher in the system, that being High 1-A+. If you can rationalize a tier that represents all possible dimensional spaces(Low 1-A), then you can eventually arrive at the logic for a tier that represents all modes of being(High 1-A+).

 

[DeathxMoonZ]

No, all possible worlds (the set itself) WOULD BE the multiverse, not the other way around. Within one of those possible world, there may be "infinite multiverses", whatever number of dimensions or whatever, but that's just a single world.

Like I said, all possible worlds exist at the apex in term of cosmology since it has all the possible qualities, meta qualities, etc etc, you can't have it "in something" (beside the logical space).

I mean im pretty sure i can refer to it as a multiverse still and not call it all possible worlds i mean like i dont wanna go around calling a multiverse all possible worlds. And so cant i have like realms that transcend the multiverse without contradicting the all possible worlds stuff. Like outerverse realms?

 

[SweetDao]

I mean im pretty sure i can refer to it as a multiverse still and not call it all possible worlds i mean like i dont wanna go around calling a multiverse all possible worlds. And so cant i have like realms that transcend the multiverse without contradicting the all possible worlds stuff. Like outerverse realms?

Ah, you mean the name, yeah obviously you don't need to call it all possible worlds, you can call it "the multiverse" if you wish, you would just need to explain exactly what it entails to get a cosmology equal to High 1-A+.

And no, if you make your multiverse High 1-A+ you can't have something above it beside a tier 0

 

[DeathxMoonZ]

Ah, you mean the name, yeah obviously you don't need to call it all possible worlds, you can call it "the multiverse" if you wish, you would just need to explain exactly what it entails to get a cosmology equal to High 1-A+.

And no, if you make your multiverse High 1-A+ you can't have something above it beside a tier 0

Huh? Wait now you’re actually confusing me. So i cant have realms that transcend the multiverse which would be obviously High 1-B+ because of the uncountable infinite higher dimensions. But like theres a character who embodies all possible worlds yet theres nothing above it except my tier 0

 

[SweetDao]

Huh? Wait now you’re actually confusing me. So i cant have realms that transcend the multiverse which would be obviously High 1-B+ because of the uncountable infinite higher dimensions. But like theres a character who embodies all possible worlds yet theres nothing above it except my tier 0

I don't understand because at one point you talk about all possible worlds and at one points you talk about a regular multiverse...

If you have a realm (or set of realms) equal to High 1-A+, you can't have anything above it beside a tier 0. I think that you understood that one.

Now if you have a High 1-B+ multiverse, well obviously you can put whatever you want above it. Be it more dimensions, more multiverse, etc etc, even 1-A realm above it/seeing it as fiction.

In your context, the character would be High 1-A+, yeah.

 

[DeathxMoonZ]

I don't understand because at one point you talk about all possible worlds and at one points you talk about a regular multiverse...

If you have a realm (or set of realms) equal to High 1-A+, you can't have anything above it beside a tier 0. I think that you understood that one.

Now if you have a High 1-B+ multiverse, well obviously you can put whatever you want above it. Be it more dimensions, more multiverse, etc etc, even 1-A realm above it/seeing it as fiction.

In your context, the character would be High 1-A+, yeah.

Yea what i meant is all possible worlds exist in the multiverse because its fiction so they have to be somewhere. I dont think i ever mentioned a regular multiverse. I have been trying to get you to understand that all possible worlds exist in my multiverse. Now this multiverse would be High 1-B+ because it has uncountable infinite higher dimensions. Now there is a character who embodies all possible worlds in my verse and the only thing above it is my tier 0. So as i asked before, my outerverse realms would be above this multiverse you said yes. Now the character who embodies all possible worlds is high 1-A+ you said yes. Im trying to see if we’re on the same page here

 

[DeathxMoonZ]

I don't understand because at one point you talk about all possible worlds and at one points you talk about a regular multiverse...

If you have a realm (or set of realms) equal to High 1-A+, you can't have anything above it beside a tier 0. I think that you understood that one.

Now if you have a High 1-B+ multiverse, well obviously you can put whatever you want above it. Be it more dimensions, more multiverse, etc etc, even 1-A realm above it/seeing it as fiction.

In your context, the character would be High 1-A+, yeah.

Oh yea i forgot to add in i also have characters who can actualize large worlds/ possibilities not just one or two

 

[SweetDao]

Yea what i meant is all possible worlds exist in the multiverse because its fiction so they have to be somewhere. I dont think i ever mentioned a regular multiverse. I have been trying to get you to understand that all possible worlds exist in my multiverse. Now this multiverse would be High 1-B+ because it has uncountable infinite higher dimensions.

And this is the thing you don't understand.

IF, as you claim, your multiverse HAS all the POSSIBLE WORLDS inside it, it means the MULTIVERSE is a High 1-A+ structure. If you put ANYTHING above it, it means it wasn't truly all possible worlds in the first place, and it becomes an antifeat.

If a character "embodies" all the possible worlds, then that means said character would be the Multiverse itself in that case.

Oh yea i forgot to add in i also have characters who can actualize large worlds/ possibilities not just one or two

That's fine as long as no one is stronger (potency) compared to another.

 

[DeathxMoonZ]

And this is the thing you don't understand.

IF, as you claim, your multiverse HAS all the POSSIBLE WORLDS inside it, it means the MULTIVERSE is a High 1-A+ structure. If you put ANYTHING above it, it means it wasn't truly all possible worlds in the first place, and it becomes an antifeat.

If a character "embodies" all the possible worlds, then that means said character would be the Multiverse itself in that case.

That's fine as long as no one is stronger (potency) compared to another.

Yo you mind answering a question about the supernal in world of darkness?

 

[Freistxevs]

So High 1-A+ is defined on the tiering system as follows:


My main question is this: What specifically is required for a setting, character, or cosmology to qualify for this tier? Is a statement about "Modal Realism" or "all possible/conceivable/imaginable worlds" enough, or is further elaboration required?

What about all possible and impossible worlds, like Extended Modal Realism? Would that be superior to baseline High 1-A+, or is it treated the same?

What about cosmologies where "all possible worlds" is not the apex, and there are levels above it?

Is it even possible to go beyond baseline High 1-A+, or is that treated as a hard limit to the size of a setting's cosmology?

What verse bro