• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

The Revenant Marvel Comics Discussion Thread

Dormammu was severely nerfed by Bendis though, who also had Cyclops severely damage Dormammu in the same story. 🙏
 
Jimmy.robinson.5099 said:
How often did Bendis nerf characters? I know he had a reputation for ignoring continuity, so I was wondering if it was a common thing or not.
Click to expand...
I vaguely remember that Bendis used to recurrently ignore consistent characterisation and comparative power levels, such as having Cyclops severely hurt Dormammu or a tiny regular non-nuclear bomb missile from War Machine almost kill She-Hulk, but no longer remember most of his stories well enough to list many examples. My apologies. 🙏
 
Antvasima said:
I vaguely remember that Bendis used to recurrently ignore consistent characterisation and comparative power levels, such as having Cyclops severely hurt Dormammu or a tiny regular non-nuclear bomb missile from War Machine almost kill She-Hulk, but no longer remember most of his stories well enough to list many examples. My apologies. 🙏
Click to expand...
That's alright. I know Bendis has a bit of a reputation within the Marvel fandom, but I was a bit curious how far that went. Sorry if I was a bother or anything.
 
No problem at all. 🙏🙂
 
Antvasima said:
Yes, the exciting adventures of The-Woman-Above-All. Watch her overwrite all of reality and everybody within it to her liking by lifting the tiniest particle in her eyelashes in every single story, without any challenges, costs, setbacks, or restrictions whatsoever over and over and over. That ought to be interesting and exciting in the long run...

However, to be fair, I had a much bigger problem with Thanos being handled this way than with Storm. At least Storm isn't actual evil marketed as an ideal to strive towards. She is just boring and arrogant. 🙏
Click to expand...
I genuinely believe the current trend of Storm being glazed is Ewing's fault. During the Krakoa era the man's obsession with Storm could rival Starlin's obsession with Thanos but at least Starlin has the excuse of having created Thanos. But the entire era had Ewing glazing Storm at pretty much every opportunity and reminding everyone how great and amazing she is. And now because of him we're entered an era of unparalleled Storm glazing from all sides.
 
Ms. Marvel getting tier 2 now bro
mutant-a.jpg
Click to expand...
 
AcidSilver said:
I genuinely believe the current trend of Storm being glazed is Ewing's fault. During the Krakoa era the man's obsession with Storm could rival Starlin's obsession with Thanos but at least Starlin has the excuse of having created Thanos. But the entire era had Ewing glazing Storm at pretty much every opportunity and reminding everyone how great and amazing she is. And now because of him we're entered an era of unparalleled Storm glazing from all sides.
Click to expand...
Well, I really like Ewing's best quality writing and think that he seems to be a nice person, but he does legitimately have a tendency to overcompensate for brown or lgbtqia+ characters having been underrepresented for so long by overpowering them to very illogical degrees, but he is far from the only writer who does so, and nobody is perfect. 🙏
 
Last edited:
You need to put together the entire URL, starting with "read". Also, you should use a VPN, preferably Mullvad, as well as a browser such as Brave or DuckDuckGo, and antivirus protection such as Bitdefender in order to stay safe from anything dangerous while visiting it. 🙏
 
Eseseso said:
Who is she restraining?
Click to expand...
It's stated on the scan, it's Legion. They decided that Kamala was going to time travel to see all the crap X-Men had to deal with while having to beat Legion somehow, tomorrow it's Dark Phoenix and the scan I showed it's from a preview, they are using this to bring her mutation into full use.
Eseseso said:
Speaking of tier 2, wasn't someone working on a CRT to lower the High Heralds from Low 1-C to 2-A?
Click to expand...
I don't know bothing about that
 
Hmm. I am not fond of that Marvel let Thor make a speech to defend outwardly benevolent authoritarianism in today's "One World Under Doom" comicbook. It undermines his character in terms of ethics and wisdom.

There is certainly an argument to be had that almost our entire real world is already living under tyranny of different degrees of severity regarding what we are allowed to do, including in what outwardly seem to be democracies, but are really oligarchies run by powerful financial interests and intelligence agencies behind the scenes, and that given that those tyrannies are almost exclusively run by malevolent "dystopia justifies the means as long as it benefits me personally" people, who systematically engineer wars, slavery, tribalist division, ridiculously extreme exploitation and inequality for their own personal profits, and even the systematic destruction of the environment of the Earth itself which sustains all life here, even genuinely benevolent "utopia justifies the means" tyrants would be preferable in comparison.

However:

A: Even if a tyrant is somehow initially benevolent, rather than just pretending to be in order to gain power, without any accountability they will eventually either be corrupted themselves or replaced by malevolent "dystopia justifies the means" tyrants, and then we are stuck with horrible systems that are nearly impossible to overthrow from within.

B: Doctor Doom is very blatantly definitely not genuinely benevolent. He is an enormously ruthless complete egomaniac.

C: Thor should be more than wise enough to realise all of the above, unless he was being mind-controlled, and his resistance against mind-control is canonically extremely high. So I think that it was yet another unnecessary character-assassination against Thor. Far less severe than some other cases, but nevertheless.

Aside from that, cutting Dormammu off from his power-sources of the people worshipping him in the Dark Dimension along with that realm itself was a clever way for Doom to become able to handle him much more easily. 🙏
 
Last edited:
Antvasima said:
I vaguely remember that Bendis used to recurrently ignore consistent characterisation and comparative power levels, such as having Cyclops severely hurt Dormammu or a tiny regular non-nuclear bomb missile from War Machine almost kill She-Hulk, but no longer remember most of his stories well enough to list many examples. My apologies. 🙏
Click to expand...
However, although I do not like how Bendis has a tendency to cause severe damage to some of the characters that he has handled, especially Superman (basically, yes, real world colonialism was and is absolutely horrible, but the Kryptonians and Jor-El were not evil colonialists, and offhandedly destroying Kandor, and the concept of Rogol Zaar destroying Krypton as revenge for its past crimes, were also unnecessary), it should be noted that I respect his sheer guts and moral integrity for creating the fundamental premise of "Secret Invasion" (with the religiously foreseen "promised land" being the entire Earth) despite all of the pressure of his own cultural background.

He has good writing skills, and seems to be sincerely well-intended. He has just had an occasional bad habit to act like a bull in a china shop, and brought Jonathan Hickman to mainstream audiences, which I am obviously not at all a fan of. But again, nobody is remotely perfect, so I do not condemn him personally because of it. 🙏
 
Last edited:
Anyone know where I can find Avengers Academy: Marvel's Voices Infinity Comic #45?

It came out May 28th but I can't find it on any site to read.
 
Can someone recommend Marvel authors who write extensively about these topics?

Besides J.M. DeMatteis.
  1. The nature of the collective unconscious and characters like Gods or the physical universe being shaped by it.
  2. The nature of dreams or dream worlds, besides anything involving Nightmare and his dimension.
  3. Reality-Fiction relationships, the nature of stories/narratives on a meta-fictional level.
 
Antvasima said:
Hmm. I am not fond of that Marvel let Thor make a speech to defend outwardly benevolent authoritarianism in today's "One World Under Doom" comicbook. It undermines his character in terms of ethics and wisdom.

There is certainly an argument to be had that almost our entire real world is already living under tyranny of different degrees of severity regarding what we are allowed to do, including in what outwardly seem to be democracies, but are really oligarchies run by powerful financial interests and intelligence agencies behind the scenes, and that given that those tyrannies are almost exclusively run by malevolent "dystopia justifies the means as long as it benefits me personally" people, who systematically engineer wars, slavery, tribalist division, ridiculously extreme exploitation and inequality for their own personal profits, and even the systematic destruction of the environment of the Earth itself which sustains all life here, even genuinely benevolent "utopia justifies the means" tyrants would be preferable in comparison.

However:

A: Even if a tyrant is somehow initially benevolent, rather than just pretending to be in order to gain power, without any accountability they will eventually either be corrupted themselves or replaced by malevolent "dystopia justifies the means" tyrants, and then we are stuck with horrible systems that are nearly impossible to overthrow from within.

B: Doctor Doom is very blatantly definitely not genuinely benevolent. He is an enormously ruthless complete egomaniac.

C: Thor should be more than wise enough to realise all of the above, unless he was being mind-controlled, and his resistance against mind-control is canonically extremely high. So I think that it was yet another unnecessary character-assassination against Thor. Far less severe than some other cases, but nevertheless.

Aside from that, cutting Dormammu off from his power-sources of the people worshipping him in the Dark Dimension along with that realm itself was a clever way for Doom to become able to handle him much more easily. 🙏
Click to expand...
I hope someone in the story references "Emperor Doom" and how Doom could've already ruled the world but threw it away out of boredom.

Though like Squirrel Girl noted, the Avengers can't just reverse all of what Doom has done, they need to understand why people support Doom (aka him protecting the Earth [albeit from something he indirectly caused] and giving people free healthcare and education).
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
Can someone recommend Marvel authors who write extensively about these topics?

Besides J.M. DeMatteis.
  1. The nature of the collective unconscious and characters like Gods or the physical universe being shaped by it.
  2. The nature of dreams or dream worlds, besides anything involving Nightmare and his dimension.
  3. Reality-Fiction relationships, the nature of stories/narratives on a meta-fictional level.
Click to expand...
If you just want to learn about how the mystical and spiritual side of existence genuinely works in real life, I would by far more highly recommend initially listening to Alan Watts, and later to the modern Buddhas Osho and Jiddu Krishnamurti, than to J.M. DeMatteis, Alan Moore, Grant Morrison, Al Ewing, or any other comicbook writer interested in those areas, whose knowledge and abilities are comparatively very limited.

youtube.com

Official Alan Watts Org

Only ORIGINAL & AUTHENTIC (NO A.I.) Alan Watts content from AlanWatts.org. The Alan Watts Org is a continuation of Alan's own Electronic University, founded in 1973. Please help us preserve the REAL Alan Watts' message through his ACTUAL recordings, during an unprecedented rise in AI fakes...
youtube.com youtube.com


Eseseso said:
I hope someone in the story references "Emperor Doom" and how Doom could've already ruled the world but threw it away out of boredom.
Click to expand...
Well, nowadays Doom genuinely thinks that he alone can save his world from destruction, after investigating thousands of different futures with his time machine, and this happened after "Emperor Doom".
Eseseso said:
Though like Squirrel Girl noted, the Avengers can't just reverse all of what Doom has done, they need to understand why people support Doom (aka him protecting the Earth [albeit from something he indirectly caused] and giving people free healthcare and education).
Click to expand...
This has strong real world precedents.

For example, Kim Il-sung, the founder of North Korea, repeatedly told his citizens that, once totalitarian socialism was fully built, “everyone will eat rice and meat-soup (or meat-stew) every day,” along with wearing silk clothes and living in tile-roofed houses.

And currently much of this world's population, including in North America, where, for example, Elon Musk alone allegedly owns three times more wealth than the entire poorest bottom half of the country (170 million people) do together, are in such desperate conditions for survival due to the international oligarchy exploiting them dry of all their wealth, combined with being dumbed down and thoroughly confused by being drowned in deceitful and divisive infotainment, that they are at a major risk to accept any solution that just seems to allow them and their families to survive and be safe, including tyranny from people who are just lying to, manipulating, and exploiting them as well, as we can see in the current United States leadership.

So sure, global tax-financed health care, schooling, welfare security, good salaries, peace, cooperation, tolerance, and much greater financial and social equality are all great goals to strive towards, but never ever without very strong democratic accountabilities, so the population is not lied to and enslaved. 🙏
 
Last edited:
Antvasima said:
Hmm. I am not fond of that Marvel let Thor make a speech to defend outwardly benevolent authoritarianism in today's "One World Under Doom" comicbook. It undermines his character in terms of ethics and wisdom.

There is certainly an argument to be had that almost our entire real world is already living under tyranny of different degrees of severity regarding what we are allowed to do, including in what outwardly seem to be democracies, but are really oligarchies run by powerful financial interests and intelligence agencies behind the scenes, and that given that those tyrannies are almost exclusively run by malevolent "dystopia justifies the means as long as it benefits me personally" people, who systematically engineer wars, slavery, tribalist division, ridiculously extreme exploitation and inequality for their own personal profits, and even the systematic destruction of the environment of the Earth itself which sustains all life here, even genuinely benevolent "utopia justifies the means" tyrants would be preferable in comparison.

However:

A: Even if a tyrant is somehow initially benevolent, rather than just pretending to be in order to gain power, without any accountability they will eventually either be corrupted themselves or replaced by malevolent "dystopia justifies the means" tyrants, and then we are stuck with horrible systems that are nearly impossible to overthrow from within.

B: Doctor Doom is very blatantly definitely not genuinely benevolent. He is an enormously ruthless complete egomaniac.

C: Thor should be more than wise enough to realise all of the above, unless he was being mind-controlled, and his resistance against mind-control is canonically extremely high. So I think that it was yet another unnecessary character-assassination against Thor. Far less severe than some other cases, but nevertheless.

Aside from that, cutting Dormammu off from his power-sources of the people worshipping him in the Dark Dimension along with that realm itself was a clever way for Doom to become able to handle him much more easily. 🙏
Click to expand...
Thor's argument really was weak when you put it into context. Sure, Odin was the reason that Asgard and the Nine Realms were still standing when they were threatened but the jackass has also been the reason for like half of said threats because his ego and unquestioned power basically let him do whatever he wanted whenever he wanted across millennia. And any time someone questioned him or even remotely defied him he would respond with threats and violence.

Odin didn't protect the Nine Realms because he was an all powerful king, he protected them because he's a damn Skyfather with nearly unmatched power. Doom could've been doing nearly everything he's doing now any time he wanted, he just chose not to. Someone call Blue Marvel so he can tell everyone about the paradise universe run by a non dictator Doom that our Doom erased from existence because he felt insulted. Or maybe just have Reed or T'Challa talk about how when Doom actually did achieve ultimate power his kingdom was a complete nightmare that only even existed to satisfy his own ego since those two are the only ones who remember the events of Secret Wars besides Doom himself.

Or, like the man said: "You could have saved the world years ago if it mattered to you, Luthor."
 
Yes. Strongly agreed, except for that Matt Fraction was the one who suddenly turned Odin from being a wise, responsible, and compassionate leader, as Tom DeFalco portrayed him, into being a frothing, unreasonable, casually genocidal emotionally stunted self-righteous maniac, and then several other writers joined in with completely distorting his character.

And BleedingCool, which I usually like (given that Rich Johnston seems to have a leftist social conscience, and to make a genuine effort with much of his investigative journalism), but not this particular time, is now attempting to use that speech to tie the Marvel version of Thor into Nazism on very false premises.

bleedingcool.com

One World Under Doom Title Drop, With New Avengers/Runaways Spoilers

New Avengers #1 ( Sam Humphries & Ton Lima) One World Under Doom #5 (Ryan North & RB Silva) Runaways #1 (Rainbow Rowell & Elena Casagrande)
bleedingcool.com

The Vikings were partially ideologically horrible people, yes, but if somebody wants to tie them to Nazism just because the Nazis bastardised some concepts from Viking mythology, they would logically have to drag all of the following into it as well, which doesn't make any logical sense. (ChatGPT is very useful.)

"Below is a roundup of the main faith-traditions (or religion-tinged esoteric currents) whose symbols or ideas the Third Reich deliberately cherry-picked, distorted, and re-branded for its own propaganda.

1. Hinduism (+ Jainism & broader Indian religions)

Swastika – an ancient Sanskrit good-luck emblem found on Hindu and Jain temples became the Nazis’ “Hakenkreuz,” recast as a racial, militant badge of “Aryan” identity.

“Aryan” Myth – Early-20th-century racial theorists fused Indology and occultism, claiming northern India’s Vedic peoples were the primordial Aryans whose purity Germany had to “restore.” This idea flowed into Ariosophy and, eventually, core Nazi race theory.

2. Buddhism

It is worth stressing that the swastika also appears on East-Asian Buddhist statuary and scrolls and, via Theosophical literature, helped popularize the symbol in German occult circles well before the NSDAP adopted it.

3. Germanic / Norse Paganism (Viking mythology)

Runes – Heinrich Himmler’s SS heraldry lifted a whole set of runes ( ᛋ Sowilo, ᛞ Othala, etc.) from early-medieval futhark alphabets. They were promoted as “Ur-Germanic” sigils of blood, soil, and martial virtue.

Myths & Eschatology – Propaganda invoked Valhalla, Ragnarök, and the “All-father” to wrap modern warfare in archaic heroism.

4. Christianity

Motto “Gott mit uns” – Prussian since the 1700s, but on Wehrmacht belt buckles it implied divine backing for Hitler’s wars; SS belts swapped in “Meine Ehre heißt Treue” to underline quasi-religious loyalty to the Führer.

Appropriated Ritual Form – Party rallies mimicked liturgy (banners as processional crosses, Führer speeches as sermons), reframing the Reich as a new covenant.

5. Greco-Roman & Classical Religions

Roman Salute & Eagle – Borrowed from imagery of imperial Rome (itself a civil-religious system). The stiff-arm salute, revived by Italian Fascists, was adopted as the mandatory Nazi greeting; the “Reichsadler” eagle perched on a wreath-swastika echoed Jupiter’s legionary standard.

Fasces – While more associated with Mussolini, the bundled-rod symbol, visible on some early Nazi art, came from Roman religious-political iconography of authority.

6. Pan-European Solar & Proto-Indo-European Cult Symbols

Black Sun (Schwarze Sonne/Sonnenrad) – Inlaid on the floor of Himmler’s Wewelsburg and presented as a prehistoric Aryan sun wheel, though its exact ancient pedigree is dubious.

7. Esoteric Occult Currents

While not “religions” in the conventional sense, movements such as Theosophy, Ariosophy, and various Germanic occult lodges mashed together Hindu, Gnostic, and pagan motifs. Their writings (Guido von List, Jörg Lanz von Liebenfels, the Thule Society) furnished the SS with mystical genealogies and rites that blurred the lines between religion, folklore, and pseudo-science.

8. (Minor) Celtic & Slavic Folk Traditions

Symbols like the Celtic cross or Kolovrat sun wheel, now common in neo-Nazi circles, were less prevalent in the Third Reich itself but arose from the same hunt for “Aryan” pan-European roots.

Putting it together

The Nazi myth-machine was eclectic rather than systematic. Whenever a symbol could be re-interpreted as:

1. Ancient

2. Ario-European

3. Martial or “life-affirming”

…it was fair game. Whether the swastika from South-Asian temples, runes from Viking grave-goods, a Bible slogan, or the Roman eagle, the regime stripped each of its original religious nuance and welded it onto a modern, racial-political cult of the Führer."

And yet, the Marvel Comics version of Thor keeps being cherry-picked on through the extremely selective neuroses of quite a lot of writers and comicbook journalists, despite all of his past extremely benevolent work. 🙏
 
Last edited:
Antvasima said:
Yes, but given all of his character growth over the years, he really should know better. 🙏
Click to expand...
Do you think Asgard will someday archive democracy? We all know sooner or later Doom is gonna be revealed to have some evil plan all along, would thor learn to give "power to the people" after this?


Phoenix Force Legion made little work of Gladiator and the Shi'ar and then turned Collosus into spaghetti, but wasn't capable of breaking free from Kamala's first time using of her mutant ability, next up Apocalypse then Scarlet Witch in House of M, stay tunned the 1-A Kamala CRT is coming...
 
Suigetsuhyugs said:
Do you think Asgard will someday archive democracy? We all know sooner or later Doom is gonna be revealed to have some evil plan all along, would thor learn to give "power to the people" after this?
Click to expand...
Eventually, possibly, but given the Asgardians' extremely long history, longevities, and memories, if it is just suddenly thrown onto them, they will likely fail to acclimatise and be manipulated into electing even worse leaders than previously. A working democracy is dependent on a well-educated critically evaluating and reasonably civilised population.

I think that Al Ewing is going to let Thor undergo a lot of self-reflection and character development in that and other areas though. 🙏
Suigetsuhyugs said:
Phoenix Force Legion made little work of Gladiator and the Shi'ar and then turned Collosus into spaghetti, but wasn't capable of breaking free from Kamala's first time using of her mutant ability, next up Apocalypse then Scarlet Witch in House of M, stay tunned the 1-A Kamala CRT is coming...
Click to expand...
Well, I think that 1-A is far too high for almost any regular Marvel Comics heroes. We should probably turn much more careful with our powerscaling chains without personal actual feats of that scale. Hopefully Impress has a good plan for this without going too far into the other direction of excessive downgrades instead, so a reasonable balance can be found. 🙏
 
Also like, how much do Odin and Thor actually rule? Asgard, specifically the part where the Asgardians live, is usually just the size of a small city. Most of the civilizations in the 10 realms tend to be portrayed to be much smaller than Earth which is planet wide. And Odin and Thor's "ruling" of the realms is pretty hands off for the most part. Comparing Doom's rule of Earth to Odin and Thor's rule of Asgard feels like comparing the president of the US to the mayor of a town with a population in the triple digits.

It's just a massively flawed comparison.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

O0DSF0o
Spider-Man (Marvel Comics) vs Spider-Man (Marvel Comics) vs Spider-Man (Marvel Comics) vs Spider-Man (Marvel Comics) vs Spider-Man (Marvel Comics)
Replies
25
Views
1K
O0DSF0o
O0DSF0o
The_Impress
  • Locked
The Mah-vel Unfawking Thread Step Three: I Came Back with Milk
10 11 12
Replies
472
Views
29K
Antvasima
Antvasima
Hecky2222
Strongest Planets in Fiction
2 3
Replies
112
Views
4K
WeeklyBattles
WeeklyBattles
TegamiBachi25
Noir faces Tombstone again but its different continuities or something idk (Spider-Verse vs Marvel Comics)
Replies
1
Views
352
Rgerdeena
Rgerdeena
TegamiBachi25
Morrigan vs Hulk (Ultimate Marvel vs Record of Ragnarok)
Replies
0
Views
221
TegamiBachi25
TegamiBachi25
Back
Top