[Mao Mao] High 7-C is iffy

[SeijiSetto]

Based on what I can see from the verse page, it looks like everyone that has a page currently scales to this calc in some degree.
Not only has it not been approved, but it's also scaling a freezing feat to physicals without any mention of a UES to link the two.
If this passes, the next highest relevant calc seems to be this one? So the High 7-Cs would become 8-B.

Agree: (1:1) (@Crabwhale, @AlloyAmi)
Neutral: ()
Disagree: ()

 

[SeijiSetto]

@MintyBoi1 @Javenplayz253 you two are the only supporters on the verse page

 

[Crabwhale]

Seems simple enough. Agreed.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Based on what I can see from the verse page, it looks like everyone that has a page currently scales to this calc in some degree.
Not only has it not been approved, but it's also scaling a freezing feat to physicals without any mention of a UES to link the two.
If this passes, the next highest relevant calc seems to be this one? So the High 7-Cs would become 8-B.

Agree: (1:0) (@Crabwhale)
Neutral: ()
Disagree: ()

It’s shown that Mao Mao, Badgerclops, and Adorabat can all can take being directly hit by the dragon’s breath, which was calced at High 7-C (Not sure why I can’t find the approval but it’s been applied without pushback with mod inspection for years) and all other characters at High 7-C are shown to at least somewhat compare to the main cast. The trio were all frozen by the ice dragon, which should’ve been done by its breath, while caught off guard. Mao Mao also directly blocked its breath and took another hit from it while already weakened from being sick. And of course his durability should scale to his AP. I don’t see how they couldn’t scale to the breath’s output.

 

[SeijiSetto]

It’s shown that Mao Mao, Badgerclops, and Adorabat can all can take being directly hit by the dragon’s breath, which was calced at High 7-C (Not sure why I can’t find the approval but it’s been applied without pushback with mod inspection for years) and all other characters at High 7-C are shown to at least somewhat compare to the main cast. The trio were all frozen by the ice dragon, which should’ve been done by its breath, while caught off guard. Mao Mao also directly blocked its breath and took another hit from it while already weakened from being sick. And of course his durability should scale to his AP. I don’t see how they couldn’t scale to the breath’s output.

It's a temperature/freezing feat. They are not being physically struck by the same energy used to perform the freezing feat, so their durability would not scale.

 

[MintyBoi1]

It's a temperature/freezing feat. They are not being physically struck by the same energy used to perform the freezing feat, so their durability would not scale.

The Ice Dragon is only shown to attack with ice breath and ice shards. What could they be being hit with if not the same breath used to freeze the RPH?

 

[SeijiSetto]

The Ice Dragon is only shown to attack with ice breath and ice shards. What could they be being hit with if not the same breath used to freeze the RPH?

I did not say they did not get hit by the breath, that much is literally visible in the scans on the page.
What I'm saying is that the physical force behind the breath is not necessarily equal to the freezing energy it possesses.
The breath has whatever amount of energy and that is enough to drop the temperature of air to the point it makes giant ice shards, but we don't by default scale temperature change feats (like this one) to people's physicals.

 

[MintyBoi1]

I did not say they did not get hit by the breath, that much is literally visible in the scans on the page.
What I'm saying is that the physical force behind the breath is not necessarily equal to the freezing energy it possesses.
The breath has whatever amount of energy and that is enough to drop the temperature of air to the point it makes giant ice shards, but we don't by default scale temperature change feats (like this one) to people's physicals.

I’m confused, the energy used to freeze the RPH is the exact same energy being used to hit and freeze the characters. So how is the strength in any way different when it’s the exact same energy being used the exact same way?

 

[SeijiSetto]

I’m confused, the energy used to freeze the RPH is the exact same energy being used to hit and freeze the characters. So how is the strength in any way different when it’s the exact same energy being used the exact same way?

Using magic or whatever ability to reduce air to freezing (say it takes 500 Kilotons of energy) is not equivalent to a 500 Kiloton punch.
It's freezing, it's a change in temperature.

If you put something like a can of coke in a fridge, it will be cooled down by the fridge (imagine that represents the dragon's breath here). Some amount of energy is affecting it (obviously "cold" is not an actual thing, it's just the absence of heat, but this is fiction so imagine it's being hit by some amount of "cold") but that energy is not equivalent to, say, the same energy being used to smash it with a sledgehammer.
A can of coke isn't 9-B (~0.33kg * 4184 J/kg * 20℃ <assuming going from like 22 to 2 degrees>) for withstanding being put in a fridge.

Mao Mao and co. here being able to survive getting flash frozen (the fridge) says nothing about what would happen to them if the same energy was used to strike them (the sledgehammer), hence you don't scale freezing to physicals.

 

[SeijiSetto]

Bump.

 

[AlloyAmi]

agree with what setto is saying

 

[SeijiSetto]

Bump.

I’m confused, the energy used to freeze the RPH is the exact same energy being used to hit and freeze the characters. So how is the strength in any way different when it’s the exact same energy being used the exact same way?

do you have anything further to say on the matter or do you understand my point now
if you have nothing further to say i'm gonna apply it

 

[MintyBoi1]

do you have anything further to say on the matter or do you understand my point now
if you have nothing further to say i'm gonna apply it

I don’t think so. But it should be at least 8-B, like before upgrades

 

[SeijiSetto]

I don’t think so. But it should be at least 8-B, like before upgrades

i will simply replace any mention of High 7-C with 8-B
if people had an At least or an At most that will remain untouched
(also sorry i forgot to apply it earlier and now the wiki decides it doesn't wanna work for me, otherwise i'd have gotten this closed some time ago)

 

[SeijiSetto]

finally got around to applying it
i would appreciate a second pair of eyes having a look at the pages and fixing anything i potentially screwed up, otherwise this can be closed now

 

[MintyBoi1]

What about the likely High 7-C rating that was in place?

 

[SeijiSetto]

What about the likely High 7-C rating that was in place?

for who?
i just went through all the characters on the verse page and replaced all High 7-C with 8-B (and also removed any reasoning of scaling to the ice dragon outside of its blasts)

 

[MintyBoi1]

for who?
i just went through all the characters on the verse page and replaced all High 7-C with 8-B (and also removed any reasoning of scaling to the ice dragon outside of its blasts)

Mao Mao was the only one with a page when the At least 8-B, likely High 7-C rating was there but all others scale to him directly. Does it still apply? Even if it doesn’t, I’m pretty sure it should be at least 8-B+ for all characters as the feat for that is very casual.

 

[SeijiSetto]

Mao Mao was the only one with a page when the At least 8-B, likely High 7-C rating was there but all others scale to him directly. Does it still apply?

it shouldn't
the issue is the feat scaling to physicals at all, not whether it's a likely or a possibly or whatever

Even if it doesn’t, I’m pretty sure it should be at least 8-B+ for all characters as the feat for that is very casual.

i don't think a feat being JUST casual (unless it's something like done with literally a single finger or something where it is clear they are not trying in the absolute slightest) is grounds for an At least rating but idrc that's not my issue
you are free to do what you want, all i did was remove High 7-C and now i am content