Infinite Universe Mega Man + Speed Upgrade

[MeiouHades]

Again, here's what a japanese speaker has to say on the matter.

You're translating it literally, not considering any futher context. Japanese doesn't work with literal translations.

If we accept High 3-A DB Toei Universe, this should be no different.

1.) That's whataboutism and the wiki staff absolutely hate this, so if you want a thread to be taken seriously I'd avoid that
2.) Toei Dragon Ball absolutely doesn't use that. DB's statement says "expansive", not "expanding", this is one of the most important things we clarified in that thread had you read it more thoroughly.

 

[MrTayman616]

2.) Toei Dragon Ball absolutely doesn't use that. DB's statement says "expansive", not "expanding", this is one of the most important things we clarified in that thread had you read it more thoroughly.

...No. The line is the same, what he says isn't unreasonable.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

I honestly don't think even possibly is fine.

広がる wouldn't be used for this, Just 無限 would be used.

Though if there are anything else for infinite universe, i'd agree. Edit: (Overall, I don't think the line alone implies it, not saying it can't be but that if it alone is enough for possibly etc.)

No, because it would make the sentence gramatically bizarre. In fact, most infinite universe statements i've seen in japanese use hirogaru.

This is because if we take that out, it literally becomes "infinitely universe"

 

[TheHedgememe]

I honestly don't think even possibly is fine.

広がる wouldn't be used for this, Just 無限 would be used.

Though if there are anything else for infinite universe, i'd agree. Edit: (Overall, I don't think the line alone implies it, not saying it can't be but that if it alone is enough for possibly etc.)

Possibly

Should be used to list a statistic for a character with some basis, but inconclusive due to the justification being vague or non-definitive. The probability of the justification in question for being reliable should be notable, but mild. This term should be used sparingly.

From the AP page. Unsure if this also applies to speed but I'd say it fits the site's definition pretty well. It's a pretty vague statement and it's already up in the air if Mega Man's universe is infinite in size or not, but an argument can be made using it.

But I also understand why you wouldn't. I'm no expert on Japanese so I can't exactly say what is and isn't a correct translation. It either is infinite or it's not.

for however this effects the arument, i got it translated on r/translator

Also, the translator on here seems to agree that it could be interpreted as being infinite in size. So I still don't quite think a possibly rating is out of the question just yet.

 

[AlloyAmi]

L̶e̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶r̶g̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶g̶e̶t̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶f̶u̶l̶l̶ ̶p̶o̶w̶e̶r̶!̶

 

[TheHedgememe]

L̶e̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶r̶g̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶g̶e̶t̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶f̶u̶l̶l̶ ̶p̶o̶w̶e̶r̶!̶

WE REPLOIDS HAVE NO LIMITS

 

[MrTayman616]

This is because if we take that out, it literally becomes "infinitely universe"

Uh, no? It's not like "Infinitely expanding universe" - "expanding" = "infinitely universe".

It would be with this "無限の". Like 無限の空間, or 無限の宇宙空間 like Setto says.

 

[Migue79]

I knew the moment I found that line from the Haoh Game guide those many moons ago people would one day use it for this.

Ah, **** it. I'll give you all a small challenge mini-game for you all. It's the following: there is indeed another statement that refers to the actual size of the universe in Mega Man as infinite that I found those many moons ago too (from Capcom games and not manga side material). Go and find it.

HINT: It will come from the most unlikely place you could imagine in Classic Era material. Good luck!

 

[StekFence]

Bro wants them to look for the one piece. (Of evidence)

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

I knew the moment I found that line from the Haoh Game guide those many moons ago people would one day use it for this.

Ah, **** it. I'll give you all a small challenge mini-game for you all. It's the following: there is indeed another statement that refers to the actual size of the universe in Mega Man as infinite that I found those many moons ago too (from Capcom games and not manga side material). Go and find it.

HINT: It will come from the most unlikely place you could imagine in Classic Era material. Good luck!

Oh nah, bro thinks he's Gol D. Roger

 

[TheHedgememe]

I knew the moment I found that line from the Haoh Game guide those many moons ago people would one day use it for this.

Ah, **** it. I'll give you all a small challenge mini-game for you all. It's the following: there is indeed another statement that refers to the actual size of the universe in Mega Man as infinite that I found those many moons ago too (from Capcom games and not manga side material). Go and find it.

HINT: It will come from the most unlikely place you could imagine in Classic Era material. Good luck!

Ain't no way we're getting dragged into the side-quest called "Find the Mega Man infinite universe statement that can be used to support the argument"

Also I swear if it's from Super Adventure Rockman or something I might just lose it

In any case, that sounds like fun!

 

[TyranoDoom30]

I knew the moment I found that line from the Haoh Game guide those many moons ago people would one day use it for this.

Ah, **** it. I'll give you all a small challenge mini-game for you all. It's the following: there is indeed another statement that refers to the actual size of the universe in Mega Man as infinite that I found those many moons ago too (from Capcom games and not manga side material). Go and find it.

HINT: It will come from the most unlikely place you could imagine in Classic Era material. Good luck!

 

[AlloyAmi]

ケータイカプコン：ロックマン スペースレスキュー

page for

Mega Man Space Rescue​

ロックマン スペースレスキュー 」


家庭用ゲームで大人気のロックマンが
今度は宇宙を舞台に熱く華麗な救出劇を繰り広げるぞ！


ジェット噴射を駆使して広大な宇宙を探索だ！
宇宙空間ならではの慣性の操作をいち早くマスターし、各ステージで助けを待つ遭難者を救出しよう！
無限の広さを持つ宇宙空間で君は全遭難者を助け出すことが出来るかな？

Mega Man: Space Rescue


Mega Man, the home video game hero, is back
for a hot and spectacular rescue mission in outer space!


Explore the vastness of space with your jet thrusts!
Quickly master the inertial controls unique to outer space and rescue those in distress as they await your help in each stage!
Can you rescue all the victims in the infinite space?

"Can you rescue all the victims in the infinite space?"
Hardly a fight

 

[MrTayman616]

Snip

This is fine in my opinion. (If it's canon info or etc. The link didn't upload everything so :d)

 

[TyranoDoom30]

ケータイカプコン：ロックマン スペースレスキュー

page for

Mega Man Space Rescue​

"Can you rescue all the victims in the infinite space?"
Hardly a fight

THE GOAT

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Made an Imgur link

 

[TheHedgememe]

ケータイカプコン：ロックマン スペースレスキュー

page for

Mega Man Space Rescue​

"Can you rescue all the victims in the infinite space?"
Hardly a fight

THE ONE PIECE... THE ONE PIECE IS REAL!!!

This is fine in my opinion. (If it's canon info or etc. The link didn't upload everything so :d)

Agreed.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Bump

 

[TheHedgememe]

All I really have left to say is that assuming this game is canon (which MMKB considers as part of the series, though I suppose using a wiki to prove its canonicity is a little questionable so let me know if I'm wrong) then we've got solid enough evidence for Mega Man's universe being infinite in size with the two scans paired together.

ケータイカプコン：ロックマン スペースレスキュー

page for

Mega Man Space Rescue​

"Can you rescue all the victims in the infinite space?"
Hardly a fight

Therefore I agree that the Mother Computer's speed feat should be raised to Infinite due to the universe in question that it repeatedly recreates and holds several recreations of being infinite in size. If anyone else has concerns I think now would be a good time to present them.

I'm guessing the arguments/justification also need VSB staff approval before profile changes are put into effect? Should we call a mod?

 

[ShakeResounding]

I'm guessing the arguments/justification also need VSB staff approval before profile changes are put into effect? Should we call a mod?

Yup. I'll try and get at least one

 

[TheHedgememe]

Yup. I'll try and get at least one

Thank you very much. Hopefully the review process is swift. o7

 

[AlloyAmi]

All I really have left to say is that assuming this game is canon (which MMKB considers as part of the series, though I suppose using a wiki to prove its canonicity is a little questionable so let me know if I'm wrong) then we've got solid enough evidence for Mega Man's universe being infinite in size with the two scans paired together.

mega man, especially classic, is a pretty loose series in terms of canon, with most of the games being considered canon, and this is an official game released by capcom themselves in japan that doesnt present contradictions, its just mega man rescuing people in space. so i see no reason for the information regarding its description to not apply.

 

[TheHedgememe]

mega man is a pretty loose series in terms of canon, with most of the games being considered canon, and this is an official game released by capcom themselves in japan that doesnt present contradictions, its just mega man rescuing people in space. so i see no reason for the information regarding its description to not apply.

Good to know.

 

[Migue79]

ケータイカプコン：ロックマン スペースレスキュー

page for

Mega Man Space Rescue​

"Can you rescue all the victims in the infinite space?"
Hardly a fight

You definitely looked at previous message histories, cheater.

 

[AlloyAmi]

You definitely looked at previous message histories, cheater.

are you sure?
https://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Meg...ameplay-,External links,-Rockman Space Rescue


it wasnt that hard, space is not involved in that many games lol, the fact that you called it the most unlikely place made it even easier to pin point. ive known about these mobile games for quite some time.

 

[Migue79]

are you sure?

Yes, I am.

 

[AlloyAmi]

Yes, I am.

are you kidding me

 

[Rokim21]

It's always mobile games, is there anything else we could consider for this? Is there nothing in the 2-C X series stuff that could point towards infinite speed as well?

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Yes, I am.

<3

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

are you kidding me

 

[TheHedgememe]

It's always mobile games, is there anything else we could consider for this? Is there nothing in the 2-C X series stuff that could point towards infinite speed as well?

The speed feat from the Mother Computer is from X (Xtreme 1 specifically, a handheld Game Boy Color game lol). It just scales to the Mega Man universe's now infinite size since:

1. X takes place 100 years after classic. They're canonically in the same timeline, and as such, obviously take place in the same universe.

2. The Mother Computer has all of the past data from X1 and X2, materialized in the form of cyberspaces (which should be comparable to Cyber Peacock's Cyberspace which is compared to Deep Logs, also explicitly called universes) that characters (like Sigma) can utilize and materialize data from the Mother Computer into the real world. [ EDIT: The point here is that Xtreme's "past data" are recreations of the entire Mega Man universe, just from different points in time. ]

 

[Dalesean027]

ケータイカプコン：ロックマン スペースレスキュー

page for

Mega Man Space Rescue​

"Can you rescue all the victims in the infinite space?"
Hardly a fight

@SeijiSetto how we feeling here

 

[Migue79]

Ok, jokes aside, don't mind if I play devil's advocate for just a little bit:

Have we considered the possibility that these statements could be hyperbolic? What exactly denies the chance of this being the case? Just... curious.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Have we considered the possibility that these statements could be hyperbolic? What exactly denies the chance of this being the case? Just... curious.

I don't think there is anything concrete to say they are hyperbolic, alongside no contradictions to these statements as far as i recall. They are simply describing the massive, mysterious size of the universe, no reason to exaggerate

 

[TheHedgememe]

Ok, jokes aside, don't mind if I play devil's advocate for just a little bit:

Have we considered the possibility that these statements could be hyperbolic? What exactly denies the chance of this being the case? Just... curious.

It's a possibility, I won't deny that. But I feel as though there'd have to be very hard de-confirmation or even some level of contradiction to the idea of MM's universe being infinite in size, not to imply any sort of burden of proof. Otherwise IMO the two scans we already have seem to point more towards the universe itself being infinite in size.

If you really want me to argue something, then the Mother Computer just being 2-C in nature should also help the scans' case, considering each Cyberspace inside is a Low 2-C construct with not only space but the passage of time, implying a temporal dimension, which is already uncountably higher than High 3-A, despite the latter tier relating to characters/cosmologies/items that contain or affect infinite mass or space. At least, that's what I figure.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I don't think there is anything concrete to say they are hyperbolic, alongside no contradictions to these statements as far as i recall. They are simply describing the massive, mysterious size of the universe, no reason to exaggerate

I agree.

 

[Migue79]

It's a possibility, I won't deny that. But I feel as though there'd have to be very hard de-confirmation or even some level of contradiction to the idea of MM's universe being infinite in size, not to imply any sort of burden of proof. Otherwise IMO the two scans we already have seem to point more towards the universe itself being infinite in size.

Well, I'm not gonna argue that the Mega Man Universe definitely isn't infinite 'cause I'd need positive evidence exactly to that - after all, claiming that it definitely isn't is a positive claim in and of itself. But do remember that that blatant statement I told you about comes from what is essentially an advertisement for the game. Advertisements do exaggerate claims purposefully and is why false advertising is a thing. So at one point, you'd have to prove that it's being literal if you want a straight up 'Infinite' rating. And don't worry, this would also apply to me if I wanted to claim that the statement is certainly hyperbolic. So it's something to keep in mind.

In addition, the other statement from the MMV guidebook is a one-off statement that has been debated already above as to whether or not it translates to expanse or extense, etc. So it's not like that's also super clear-cut.

If you really want me to argue something, then the Mother Computer just being 2-C in nature should also help the scans' case, considering each Cyberspace inside is a Low 2-C construct with not only space but the passage of time, implying a temporal dimension, which is already uncountably higher than High 3-A, despite the latter tier relating to characters/cosmologies/items that contain or affect infinite mass or space. At least, that's what I figure.

Idk much about how this tiering stuff works (and it's a waste of my time to try and learn something I don't believe most writers intended in their works). But I'll leave it to others more knowledgeable if this is enough support or not.

 

[TheHedgememe]

Well, I'm not gonna argue that the Mega Man Universe definitely isn't infinite 'cause I'd need positive evidence exactly to that - after all, claiming that it definitely isn't is a positive claim in and of itself. But do remember that that blatant statement I told you about comes from what is essentially an advertisement for the game. Advertisements do exaggerate claims purposefully and is why false advertising is a thing. So at one point, you'd have to prove that it's being literal if you want a straight up 'Infinite' rating. And don't worry, this would also apply to me if I wanted to claim that the statement is certainly hyperbolic. So it's something to keep in mind.

In addition, the other statement from the MMV guidebook is a one-off statement that has been debated already above as to whether or not it translates to expanse or extense, etc. So it's not like that's also super clear-cut.

Ah, makes sense. In that case a possibly Infinite rating could suffice if it's too vague or inconclusive for site standards. The fact the Mega Man Universe even has those types of statements should probably still be taken into consideration, IMO.

Idk much about how this tiering stuff works (and it's a waste of my time to try and learn something I don't believe most writers intended in their works). But I'll leave it to others more knowledgeable if this is enough support or not.

I would actually like to hear the thoughts of more knowledgeable members. I feel like they'd be able to see if my specific argument is actually solid or not. I try to avoid making logical fallacies so if I accidentally broke some sort of rule or made a lapse or error in my logic, that'd be my fault.

EDIT: There's also this from below, if it helps at all. Infinite information/energy should theoretically be able to hold an infinite universe.

Also, might be interesting to point out, but computers during Classic Era can process infinite amounts of energy, and X Era computers, being far superior to them, being able to contain these infinite sized universes, is also something to be noted. Not sure if this presents futher evidence, however.

 

[Migue79]

Ah, makes sense. In that case a possibly Infinite rating could suffice if it's too vague or inconclusive for site standards. The fact the Mega Man Universe even has those types of statements should probably still be taken into consideration, IMO.

This is what I'm ok with at most.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Anyone else has anything to say?