Shigaraki vs Dio

[Robo432343]

Tomura Shigaraki (Post-Surgery)

Tomura Shigaraki (死柄木 弔 Shigaraki Tomura), original name Tenko Shimura (志村転弧 Shimura Tenko), was the protégé of All For One and the leader of the League of Villains. A dangerously unstable individual who looks up to his "Sensei" with the utmost awe and respect, Shigaraki plans on tearing down...

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vs

Dio Brando

Dio Brando (ディオ・ブランドー, Dio Burandō?) is the main antagonist in JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part I: Phantom Blood and Part III: Stardust Crusaders. After the death of his abusive and alcoholic father, Dio was sent to live with the Joestar family to repay a debt owed to his father by George Joestar...

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SBA
Speed =

Shigaraki: @Johner2133451

Dio: @Robo432343 @Arkenis @Chariot190 @Rikimarox2 @VoidGoji @Mickey1940 @Jerry59 @Da3ggman @TsukasayaEmmaDCD

 

[Arkenis]

Why isn’t this a time stop stomp

 

[Johner2133451]

Shigiraki has passive fear manip, could Dio resist it?

 

[Johner2133451]

Why isn’t this a time stop stomp

Cause Shigiraki passively stomps dio with fear hax

• Fear Inducement (Is able to paralyze hundreds of people with just his mere glance, with these people being willing to die for the cause of the Meta Liberation Army and further encouraged by Trumpet's Quirk. His presence caused hallucinations of death that were greater than what All For One could do)

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I mean, Dio has fear hax of his own, so potent that it can sorta count as layered fear hax (Take the latter part with a grain of salt).

Probably just Dio > barely effected dude's with a solid res. It can make dudes with inhuman willpower who generally don't fear anything and even have some semblance of fear manip res just like, be unable to fight, almost vomit, flee in terror while screaming or paralyzed with fear. It even made Jotaro (who's ass has a legit willpower rating of maximum 5/5) to jump out a window and escape in his intial exposure to it.

 

[Johner2133451]

I mean, Dio has fear hax of his own, so potent that it can sorta count as layered fear hax (Take the latter part with a grain of salt).

Shigiraki resists to fear hax already
Resistance to:

• Fear Inducement, Mind Manipulation, and Possession (He is in a constant mental battle with All For One's vestige over the control of his body, resisting the full brunt of his willpower)

If you say it's layer, you need a CRT

 

[Arkenis]

Cause Shigiraki passively stomps dio with fear hax

• Fear Inducement (Is able to paralyze hundreds of people with just his mere glance, with these people being willing to die for the cause of the Meta Liberation Army and further encouraged by Trumpet's Quirk. His presence caused hallucinations of death that were greater than what All For One could do)

Is there more for this? This looks like basic fear hax and definitely isn’t passive. Shiggy destroyed a massive part of the city, you don’t think they’re too terrified to follow the command because they saw that? Looks way more like social influence with random hallucinations mixed in cause again, Deku just saw him do an incredible feat and that put fear into them.

 

[Johner2133451]

Is there more for this? This looks like basic fear hax and definitely isn’t passive. Shiggy destroyed a massive part of the city, you don’t think they’re too terrified to follow the command because they saw that? Looks way more like social influence with random hallucinations mixed in cause again, Deku just saw him do an incredible feat and that put fear into them.

If you say it's social infuencing, you need a CRT to remove it. For now, we go by what the profiles mentioned

Even All for One has resists to fear manip via resisting Shigi's aura (So Dio needs to have it as well to fight Tomura)

All For One

All For One (オール・フォー・ワン Ōru Fō Wan) is the true leader and benefactor of the League of Villains who bears the title of the world's Symbol of Evil, the primary antagonist of the Hideout Raid Arc and the central antagonist of the series, along with Tomura Shigaraki. Tier: 6-B, higher with Ultimate...

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Resistance to:

• Fear Inducement (Can resist Shigaraki's hatred, and even overpower it with his own willpower as just a vestige. Fought with an enraged All Might at his peak)

 

[Arkenis]

If you say it's social infuencing, you need a CRT to remove it. For now, we go by what the profiles mentioned

Yeah no, it doesn’t matter which it is lol, it matters how potent it is. The potency just isn’t enough to stop Dio.

Even All for One has resists to fear manip via resisting Shigi's aura (So Dio needs to have it as well to fight Tomura)

Nah not at all. Jojo’s pretty big on willpower, stands are essentially one’s willpower made to manifest, considering how arrogant and egoistical Dio is, Shiggy’s fear Hax isn’t gonna be enough here to suppress Dio’s will.

 

[Johner2133451]

Yeah no, it doesn’t matter which it is lol, it matters how potent it is. The potency just isn’t enough to stop Dio.


Nah not at all. Jojo’s pretty big on willpower, stands are essentially one’s willpower made to manifest, considering how arrogant and egoistical Dio is, Shiggy’s fear Hax isn’t gonna be enough here to suppress Dio’s will.

Potency is enough considering Dio has zero fear resist

Willpower is not auto fear resist

 

[TheRustyOne]

Snip

It's not that good. It just makes someone feel scared. It's not some mental attack that prevents a person from moving. The wording of that is horrible since he just made them stop in place for a second. Immediately afterward they were ordered to not move. He didn't actually paralysis them. It's also not passive, it seems to be something he does. Since the people only stopped when he focused on them. All this does it make people feel fear, they froze because that's how they react to fear.

Everyone reacts to fear differently.

Honestly, the last part isn't even a feat. The kids had just seen AFO take out multiple top heroes in the blink of an eye. No of them were scared of him until he did that. It's just Social Influencing, they were scared of what he did.

Is there more for this? This looks like basic fear hax and definitely isn’t passive. Shiggy destroyed a massive part of the city, you don’t think they’re too terrified to follow the command because they saw that? Looks way more like social influence with random hallucinations mixed in cause again, Deku just saw him do an incredible feat and that put fear into them.

There already was a thread for this, but it didn't go anywhere.

 

[Chariot190]

1. Fear manip is useless on both ends, Dio has some ***** Stand aura that can cause dudes with the biggest dicks imaginable to run away instinctively or freeze up unable to even act, his also has a statement of having the most cracked fear aura out of any Stand, which technically makes it layered given others have been able to do the same things to people with sup will and fear stuff too? Hell given who his effected it's probably layered just from the part alone. And Shiggy to my understanding is basically the same?

2. Wtf is Dio supposed to do, like he COULD do stuff, if his profile was updated, that dura neg life drain shit is gonna be real ******* zesty when the time comes, but that isn't listed atm, Dio just has basic freeze hax, and some biomanip via poisons and zombie shit, which is pretty damn good all things considered, if he like, had the whole fusionism shit listed but he don't so he can't actually apply it atm because he lacks the AP to make an incision, but I think Shig resists stuff like that?Atm it's kind of a stat stomp.

 

[Johner2133451]

It's not that good. It just makes someone feel scared. It's not some mental attack that prevents a person from moving. The wording of that is horrible since he just made them stop in place for a second. Immediately afterward they were ordered to not move. He didn't actually paralysis them. It's also not passive, it seems to be something he does. Since the people only stopped when he focused on them. All this does it make people feel fear, they froze because that's how they react to fear.

Everyone reacts to fear differently.

Honestly, the last part isn't even a feat. The kids had just seen AFO take out multiple top heroes in the blink of an eye. No of them were scared of him until he did that. It's just Social Influencing, they were scared of what he did.


There already was a thread for this, but it didn't go anywhere.

If you say it's only social influencing, not fear manip based off the downgrade CRT you send, sure but I'll still vote for shigiraki until the thread passes

 

[Robo432343]

but i thought dio's stand would make it incon

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Wtf is Dio supposed to do, like he COULD do stuff, if his profile was updated, that dura neg life drain shit is gonna be real ******* zesty when the time comes, but that isn't listed atm, Dio just has basic freeze hax, and some biomanip via poisons and zombie shit, which is pretty damn good all things considered, if he like, had the whole fusionism shit listed but he don't so he can't actually apply it atm because he lacks the AP to make an incision, but I think Shig resists stuff like that?Atm it's kind of a stat stomp.

Shigaraki barely got any resistances, the ice thing just kills Shigaraki if Dio doesn't leave his head unfrozen (That didn't go well for him when he did so last time, so like).

 

[Robo432343]

If you say it's only social influencing, not fear manip based off the downgrade CRT you send, sure but I'll still vote for shigiraki until the thread passes

but your entire point was that shigaraki wins via fear hax

and he just explained why fear hax isn't a valid win...

 

[Arkenis]

Yeah put me down for Dio. Shigg’s fear hax isn’t gonna cripple Dio at all. He’ll just use his various vampire hax to kill Shigg.

 

[Chariot190]

Potency is enough considering Dio has zero fear resist

Willpower is not auto fear resist

Well it is in JoJo dog, hell you can even train it apparently according to Kak.
Even if it wasn't, The World exists and is sentient and wouldn't be effected by it.

but i thought dio's stand would make it incon

Dio has some funny meme bullshit, it just isn't on the profile he doesn't even have blood manip lmao but like, what's TW gonna do? TW would just make it an easy win if he had his meme stuff listed, it's MFTL+ thought based time stop, he gets to do whatever tf he wants for free and will always hit first.
WIthout those actual winconditions? Dio is still a target, time stop is good but he can't exactly avoid a continent sized AoE blast even with time stop, time sto doesn't last forever even if it's functionally enough 99% of the time.

TW's function in a match like this is giving Dio free reign to get his shit off first, test what does and doesn't work, and asspull a win. If he doesn't have said win option tho, TW can't do much, it's just a brick that can't be hurt and has time stop and a few minor abilities that won't aid DIO.

 

[Johner2133451]

but your entire point was that shigaraki wins via fear hax

and he just explained why fear hax isn't a valid win...

He was arguing using a downgrade CRT which hasn't been approved

 

[Chariot190]

Shigaraki barely got any resistances, the ice thing just kills Shigaraki if Dio doesn't leave his head unfrozen (That didn't go well for him when he did so last time, so like).

You telling me Shig never got attacked by the fire-ice dude?
Or slapped with poisons? Corruption hax? Biomanip? Etc?

Has Dale been GASLIGHTING me all this time?

 

[TheRustyOne]

He was arguing using a downgrade CRT which hasn't been approved

That's not what I meant.

Tomura's actual feat isn't useful for anything in combat. He just makes people feel fear. How a person reacts to fear depends on the individual.

The latter part was just my personal opinion and how I felt about the feat. Your claim that his ability is some passive instant win is incorrect.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Dio, a ******* vampire that is known for absorbing and part 1 all being him absorbing blood and doing shit with it, not having blood manipulation is funny af ngl.

Anyways, like, I don't see any resistance to ice and stuff on Shig's profile, so, Dio FRA for now.

 

[Johner2133451]

That's not what I meant.

Tomura's actual feat isn't useful for anything in combat. He just makes people feel fear. How a person reacts to fear depends on the individual.

The latter part was just my personal opinion and how I felt about the feat. Your claim that his ability is some passive instant win is incorrect.

Then wouldn't Shigi just perform aoe decay? Dio first moves tend to just punch or knifes. He never uses his ice or bio hax while having TW

 

[TheRustyOne]

You telling me Shig never got attacked by the fire-ice dude?
Or slapped with poisons? Corruption hax? Biomanip? Etc?

He's taken both fire and ice attacks. However, he doesn't have ice resistance since he only got hit by it one time and it was more like being stabbed by ice instead of frozen.

His body can grow mouths to spit out any poison/venom injected into him.

He has no resistance to Corruption or Biological Manipulation.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Then wouldn't Shigi just perform aoe decay? Dio first moves tend to just punch or knifes. He never uses his ice or bio hax while having TW

IDK who wins, I wasn't arguing one side or the other. But yes, Tomura's first move is a city wide Decay.

 

[Johner2133451]

So Dio is screwed either way, still voting him

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Then wouldn't Shigi just perform aoe decay? Dio first moves tend to just punch or knifes. He never uses his ice or bio hax while having TW

Something something there was no need to when TW already basically one-shots everything and so on.
If TW punches Shigaraki and it does nothing, Dio is almost guaranteed to go for one of his hax options then (Apparently there's even an interview about this).

 

[Arkenis]

Then wouldn't Shigi just perform aoe decay? Dio first moves tend to just punch or knifes. He never uses his ice or bio hax while having TW

Nah. Mftl+ reactions just neg this, seeing this, he’ll immediately react with TW and try to kill Shig, only to realize nothings working and then use his vampire powers.

 

[Johner2133451]

Also I just realized this is on SBA so their distance is at 2km. Can Dio even close the distance before Shiggy perform city wide decay? It has thousands of KM range

Thousands of Kilometers with Decay (Stated to be able to decay the full 378,000 square kilometers of Japan, leaving nothing but sea and sky)

 

[Robo432343]

uh i dont know distance SBA assumes so i decided not to do anything
where does the 2km come from??

 

[TheRustyOne]

SBA: Starting distance: The characters start as far away from each other as the highest range of the fighters is, but a maximum of 4 kilometers. For example, if one character has a range of 10 meter and the other has a range of 20 meter they start 20 meter apart. However if the range of one character is 10 meter and the range of the other is 5 kilometer, they start only 4 kilometer apart.

 

[Arkenis]

Also I just realized this is on SBA so their distance is at 2km. Can Dio even close the distance before Shiggy perform city wide decay? It has thousands of KM range

Thousands of Kilometers with Decay (Stated to be able to decay the full 378,000 square kilometers of Japan, leaving nothing but sea and sky)

High Universal with Time Stop (Due to manipulating time, it is a Range-Irrelevant ability that affects the whole world through all the space)

Just gives Dio more of a reason to stop time

 

[Chariot190]

So Dio is screwed either way, still voting him

DIO has time stop, MFTL+, knows not to job despite what people seem to think, and can also fly. He can avoid the initial decay (assuming he doesn't act first, DIO doesn't let foes with unknown powers do whatever, he only does that when he has extensive knowledge and thinks he can beat them safely), and he'd know to test his hax when he stops time, punches, and goes "ayo wtf this dude's flesh didn't even twitch".

 

[Chariot190]

Also I just realized this is on SBA so their distance is at 2km. Can Dio even close the distance before Shiggy perform city wide decay? It has thousands of KM range

Yes actually, he's covered multiple km in one time stop before assuming this is High DIO, like when he kicked Jotaro across Cairo into the center of a el quasr nile bridge, from km away, with said bridge itself being like 500m long. And he did it twice mind you, full on return trip, and still had time to spare.

 

[Johner2133451]

DIO has time stop, MFTL+, knows not to job despite what people seem to think, and can also fly. He can avoid the initial decay (assuming he doesn't act first, DIO doesn't let foes with unknown powers do whatever, he only does that when he has extensive knowledge and thinks he can beat them safely), and he'd know to test his hax when he stops time, punches, and goes "ayo wtf this dude's flesh didn't even twitch".

If speed is equalized, what is the multiplier for Dio's reaction speed

 

[Arkenis]

If speed is equalized, what is the multiplier for Dio's reaction speed

I don’t believe reactions are equalized.

 

[Chariot190]

If speed is equalized, what is the multiplier for Dio's reaction speed

Uh, a lot?
Can barely react to a pissed off Plat who's like (Barely tho, he could react and perceive it but failed to dodge, but time stop is thought based which he actually DID get off in that scene, and failed because Plat's punch just kept going and caved his skull in. High DIO could barely block a punch too).

Pissed Plat 2 > Pissed Plat 1 > Base TW > Plat > Anubis > Plat > Anubis > Anubis > Chariot.

But that wasn't my point, I meant even at these speeds, time stop gives him a fuckton of leeway to do shit.

He stops time, punches, goes "damn that did not work", and just uses his other shit, because he can, and will, use other shit if punching don't work.

 

[Johner2133451]

I don’t believe reactions are equalized.

Then is this match a stomp? Shigi's speed all the same while Dio has much higher R speed

 

[TheRustyOne]

I don’t believe reactions are equalized.

Speed Equalization Rules: The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight, etc.

• Speed Amplification techniques are assumed to grant the same percentile of increase to a character's equalized speeds, as they would to their usual speeds.

This is done to keep a person's speed gap between values. If someone has faster reactions/attack speed/travel/ect speed than their combat speed, than even with speed equalized, they'll still have faster speed in those areas.

 

[Voidnether]

DIO FRA, not seeing any reason why Shigaraki would win this when it's time stop and it's over, what prevents him from sucking off Shigaraki's blood anyways