Biblically Accurate Nard Scaling

[MinatoSparkle]

bro

It's scratches after completely ripping off the chakra cloak around his arms. This is like saying V2 Ay chopping through Sasuke's Susanoo isn't impressive since he didn't seriously damage Sasuke himself.

being an AP amplifier =/= it always being above chakra amped punches, the ending blow that defeated toneri was a chakra amped punch and that's more explicit

Concentrating all his chakra to the point that the rest of his body reverts to base is not the same as his regular striking strength.

(Also naruto's scaled to the tenseigan right now based on the H6A calcs so if you feel strongly I'd suggest making a CRT to remove that, it kinda clutters up this thread yk?)

That pretty much just assumed UES which doesn't apply to Naruto (idk if the verse was considered a UES at the time, and if it was, that's even more reason to change it now), so it wasn't valid in the first place. At best, Base Naruto's physicals would downscale from his Rasengan.

 

[karo_senpaii]

bro




being an AP amplifier =/= it always being above chakra amped punches, the ending blow that defeated toneri was a chakra amped punch and that's more explicit


(Also naruto's scaled to the tenseigan right now based on the H6A calcs so if you feel strongly I'd suggest making a CRT to remove that, it kinda clutters up this thread yk?)

The H6A calc was a supporting feat which his base is already stronger than so there was no need to debate whether or not he scales physically.

If people don't have a problem with it that's cool . I'm not going to pursue this further

 

[Hjdjdhf]

Agree

 

[Testarossa002]

I would have preferred if scaling was done in a separate thread instead of this one
The Low 5-B scaling is somewhat complicated and this scaling chain is quite different from the Low 5-B own
Low 5-B scaling chain (from what I remember)

Dying Hagoromo < 2x < Juubi Jin Hagoromo < Kaguya >~ Nard Chakra Arm (downscaling) > Nard ~ Sauce ~ Double Rinnegan Madara < 1/2 = 1 eye Madara ~ 8th gate guy

In fact, toneri scaling to low 5-B (via hamura) is very headcanonny as there's no concrete scaling between both of them
And chain above isn't including things like rasengan variants amp
Also, not all the characters who scale/downscale/upscale to dying Hagoromo are low 5-B
Some are 5-C (Kakashi and Koji)

I'm fine with the general intent behind this crt btw

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

His rasengan can be stronger and he would still clash with toneri

This is a contradictory action, they fight for an entire hour if he had a stronger than SS rasengan he would just use it to kill toneri lol, you also just ignore the examples I show so meh

You can't use tenseigan toneri to argue that base toneri should scale.

I'm not using that to upgrade his base, it's an example that he can clash with people that can tank a rasengan

Like I'm just saying follow the current scaling

The current scaling for that is that he scales to it, so if you feel very strongly feel free to make a crt to change that

I would have preferred if scaling was done in a separate thread instead of this one
The Low 5-B scaling is somewhat complicated and this scaling chain is quite different from the Low 5-B own
Low 5-B scaling chain (from what I remember)

In fact, toneri scaling to low 5-B (via hamura) is very headcanonny as there's no concrete scaling between both of them
And chain above isn't including things like rasengan variants amp
Also, not all the characters who scale/downscale/upscale to dying Hagoromo are low 5-B
Some are 5-C (Kakashi and Koji)

I'm fine with the general intent behind this crt btw

I don't think it is needed, those problems dont exist with this scaling chain, TCM toneri = 5B, kaguya>toneri, people that scale to the EGVF can become 5B, simple
I am aware of them all not being low5b, one eye madara is accepted as half of hags so he will get low5b+ and only his 2 eye juubidara state will be 5B

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Low 5-B scaling chain (from what I remember)

I'm pretty sure it's Base Hagoromo who scales to Kaguya

This is a contradictory action, they fight for an entire hour if he had a stronger than SS rasengan he would just use it to kill toneri lol, you also just ignore the examples I show so meh

Toneri also has techniques above his SS...?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

It's scratches after completely ripping off the chakra cloak around his arms. This is like saying V2 Ay chopping through Sasuke's Susanoo isn't impressive since he didn't seriously damage Sasuke himself.

The Cloak is not comparable to a susano one bit, unlike the tenseigan core which got shattered, toneri only suffered minor injuries and this falls under the withstanding an attack under the durability page, his limbs and body were functional and he continued fighting like its normal.

Concentrating all his chakra to the point that the rest of his body reverts to base is not the same as his regular striking strength.

both cases use chakra to enhance him, the example i used happened to use enough up enough chakra to revert him to base, it does not defeat the point

idk if the verse was considered a UES at the time, and if it was, that's even more reason to change it now

based on this? dont think it was

 

[Testarossa002]

It's not that straightforward
The only person with a direct scaling to EGVF is Nard's chakra arm and Boil release.
The latter is a straightforward amp with no other scaling routes off it
The former isn't even a "=" scaling and more of a ">~" one
So he'll have to downscale somewhere
Naruto's regular physicals would also downscale from the chakra arm
You'll then have to account for how rasengan multipliers of his base would somehow make him stronger than EVGF Kaguya even though she can tank 9 at once.
You'll eventually end up with a circular scaling that looks like this

Kaguya's EVGF >~ Naruto's Chakra Arm > Naruto's physicals < 2x Rasengan Variants multiplier < Kaguya < Kaguya's EVGF

There wasn't this issue with the Low 5-B scaling because the source of the scaling came from someone much lower on the scaling chain
In addition, Kaguya's page doesn't have any distinction between V1 and V2. So, are you going with the current scaling arrangement for EVGF (which is still 4-B) which skips Momoshiki and Co?

Tl;Dr
It's not a straightforward value swap

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

It's not that straightforward
The only person with a direct scaling to EGVF is Nard's chakra arm and Boil release.
The latter is a straightforward amp with no other scaling routes off it
The former isn't even a "=" scaling and more of a ">~" one
So he'll have to downscale somewhere
Naruto's regular physicals would also downscale from the chakra arm
You'll then have to account for how rasengan multipliers of his base would somehow make him stronger than EVGF Kaguya even though she can tank 9 at once.
You'll eventually end up with a circular scaling that looks like this


There wasn't this issue with the Low 5-B scaling because the source of the scaling came from someone much lower on the scaling chain
In addition, Kaguya's page doesn't have any distinction between V1 and V2. So, are you going with the current scaling arrangement for EVGF (which is still 4-B) which skips Momoshiki and Co?

Tl;Dr
It's not a straightforward value swap

1) Naruto’s scaled to the EGVF rn so we can use that, if someone disagrees they can change that in their own crt
2) I did take multipliers into account
She scales 2x durability wise, she will get her 2x durability

3) Kaguya needs a key separation on her profile, but I did add the 4B stuff as though they are separate keys (you’ll see two L5B’s in her profile before you see tier 4 stuff)
I’ll make a crt in the future for the key separation but it shouldn’t be a problem as of now

 

[MinatoSparkle]

The Cloak is not comparable to a susano one bit,

Why? It's chakra surrounding and shielding someone from attacks and is more durable than the person inside in both cases

unlike the tenseigan core which got shattered, toneri only suffered minor injuries and this falls under the withstanding an attack under the durability page, his limbs and body were functional and he continued fighting like its normal.

It's objectively more damage than what Toneri sustained physically clashing with Naruto ~10 times

both cases use chakra to enhance him, the example i used happened to use enough up enough chakra to revert him to base, it does not defeat the point

You're missing the point. Condensed chakra Naruto's punch is stronger than his regular Rasengan, but I'm talking about his average SS. Since you're deferring to the profiles so much, it should be noted that Naruto's profile considers "condensing chakra" a 2x amp

based on this? dont think it was

As was mentioned there, downscaling would be fine, but Naruto's taijutsu and Rasengan are not equal

 

[karo_senpaii]

This is a contradictory action, they fight for an entire hour if he had a stronger than SS rasengan he would just use it to kill toneri lol, you also just ignore the examples I show so meh

I'm not using that to upgrade his base, it's an example that he can clash with people that can tank a rasengan


The current scaling for that is that he scales to it, so if you feel very strongly feel free to make a crt to change that


I don't think it is needed, those problems dont exist with this scaling chain, TCM toneri = 5B, kaguya>toneri, people that scale to the EGVF can become 5B, simple
I am aware of them all not being low5b, one eye madara is accepted as half of hags so he will get low5b+ and only his 2 eye juubidara state will be 5B

1. Toneri has tso to always block?
Also you're forgetting it's a difference of 2x. It's not a difference that makes him one shot toneri(well he did but that's beside the point). I ignored the examples because they all involve kcm2 Naruto and tenseigan toneri.
2. Again base toneri never tanked his rasengan. .

 

[Ezaru]

I know they use the terms for planet to refer to earth a few times

But Toneri's plan still seems like it might be just to surface wipe

It's hard to explain why I feel that way tho

This seems vague to me:
After the ceremony, Toneri and Hinata would enter a chamber called the 'Chamber of Rebirth' where they would enter a long slumber until the environment of the destroyed Earth stabilized.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I ignored the examples because they all involve kcm2 Naruto and tenseigan toneri.
2. Again base toneri never tanked his rasengan. .

1) The examples are there to give you a general idea, it's not an exclusive thing only achievable in BSM
2) you're just being a repeat machine at this point?? I never proposed anything for Base Toneri, I'm not gonna continue this back and forth if you're gonna be like that, like I said if you feel strongly that it's incorrect make a correction CRT later, for now we will move with however it is scaled on the profiles

Why? It's chakra surrounding and shielding someone from attacks and is more durable than the person inside in both cases

the cloaks are just making you overall stronger, the susano is an outer layer explicitly superior to the internals, the cloaks amp your attacks, speed, durability, the susano doesn't make you faster or stronger unless its via other susano attacks

It's objectively more damage than what Toneri sustained physically clashing with Naruto ~10 times

doesn't matter, you're ignoring the point that Toneri not getting his limbs/bones/internals broken and resuming fighting like it is nothing falls under withstanding feats for durability, we can't progress in the discussion if you keep ignoring that

You're missing the point. Condensed chakra Naruto's punch is stronger than his regular Rasengan, but I'm talking about his average SS. Since you're deferring to the profiles so much, it should be noted that Naruto's profile considers "condensing chakra" a 2x amp

It can be a 2x, 1.2x or even 200x depending on how much chakra you pour in, the point is they can exceed the barriers of a rasengan if the user wills for them to be, the order of magnitudes of effect in that showcasing being super high does not negate the general idea that they can do it, that's what the point is trying to convey

the profile considers it a more than 2x because naruto choose to pour in far more energy to the point of surpassing his rasengan barrages, not because it has some inherent multiplier attached to it, it can be as strong as you want it to be

As was mentioned there, downscaling would be fine, but Naruto's taijutsu and Rasengan are not equal

Bro it does not matter what they said the point was it's not added during UES
ima go with whatever is accepted for their profiles because this is a tier upgrade crt, not intended for changing individual scaling

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I know they use the terms for planet to refer to earth a few times

But Toneri's plan still seems like it might be just to surface wipe

It's hard to explain why I feel that way tho

This seems vague to me:
After the ceremony, Toneri and Hinata would enter a chamber called the 'Chamber of Rebirth' where they would enter a long slumber until the environment of the destroyed Earth stabilized.

Yeah no, this is just argument from incredulity, it achieves nothing other than "I can't believe this is true" while ignoring the reasons I've listed for narrowing things down (I repeat em like thrice) ; a nothing burger reply basically

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi @Damage3245

I'm not getting involved in the thread, sorry.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Bro it does not matter what they said the point was it's not added during UES
ima go with whatever is accepted for their profiles because this is a tier upgrade crt, not intended for changing individual scaling

You say this but the current scaling is base Naruto downscales from half the value of his bsm

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

You say this but the current scaling is base Naruto downscales from half the value of his bsm

Because it is a higher number than a bunch of petatons not because it got removed

the tenseigan calc is accepted for SS so we will go with that

 

[BlackeJan]

Imma say this. Regarding physical attacks and ninjutsu’s, majority of Naruto’s entire arsenal is ninjutsu attacks so there shouldn’t gen an issue with his striking scaling to his rasengan (a certain degree with FRS). Then u got people like Rock Lee and Sakura who are physical fighters ONLY yet they can still take on people who rely on ninjutsus

What im saying is that Naruto’s “striking strength” IS his rasengans, if we were to sit here and be like “well his rasengans is stronger then his punches” then you’ll just be taking away the main attack from his character I mean buddy literally finishes his opponents off or tries to with rasengan’s and FRS

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Imma say this. Regarding physical attacks and ninjutsu’s, majority of Naruto’s entire arsenal is ninjutsu attacks so there shouldn’t gen an issue with his striking scaling to his rasengan (a certain degree with FRS). Then u got people like Rock Lee and Sakura who are physical fighters ONLY yet they can still take on people who rely on ninjutsus

What im saying is that Naruto’s “striking strength” IS his rasengans, if we were to sit here and be like “well his rasengans is stronger then his punches” then you’ll just be taking away the main attack from his character I mean buddy literally finishes his opponents off or tries to with rasengan’s and FRS

respectfully, this is not the thread for that

 

[Reiner04]

This is fine.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

This is fine.

Thanks for the eval

 

[Ecronicron]

Cooking as per usual

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Since we have 3 votes, I'll apply changes on Thursday

 

[BlackeJan]

respectfully, this is not the thread for that

I thought I saw arguments regarding not scaling his rasengan to his physicals

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Temporarily closing this at the OP's request.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

My apologies for closing the thread out of nowhere, the issues pertaining to the reason no longer exist so I can continue the thread as it was, per the other day’s conditions I’ll wait for 24 hours for grace before applying the changes

Thank you all for participating

 

[TokiNoOuja]

Finally we clear up these things

I definitely aggreed

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Everything has been applied, this can be closed