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Biblically Accurate Nard Scaling

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Hello Fellow Naruto Fans, today's CRT will be discussing a bit of The Last Scaling that I wanted to implement after rewatching it, this was poorly proposed in the past so I aim to do this meta justice so without further ado let's begin


3799-D146-E498-4039-80-D6-D56-A7-B81-AB24.jpg

Preface​

After the events with Kaguya where Hagoromo and his brother sealed her and launched her into the moon, Hamura Otsutsuki had migrated to the moon and raised a society there, those people would become the Otsutsuki Clan, Those among the Otsutsuki resided peacefully in the moon thanks to Hamura's Tenseigan that helps bring about order to the moon world, among his descendants was Toneri Otsutsuki, Misreading Hamura’s celestial decree he decided that he wanted to destroy the world that the Sage of Six Paths Hagoromo had built up and he planned on doing so by ramming the moon into the face of earth with enough force to wipe out the whole planet, using the ocular telekinetic powers of the Tenseigan Toneri would reconstruct the shattered planet in which he will begin his new reign in where he will repopulate the world believing he is fixing Hagoromo’s mistakes in accordance to Hamura’s will, essentially a brand new world with a clean slate ready to develop again without old imperfections of mankind

The Tenseigan​

The Tenseigan serves as a counterpart to Hagoromo’s Rinnegan, with both dōjutsu representing divine ocular evolutions from their respective lineages. Conceptually, they follow a parallel structure:
Hamura awakened the original Tenseigan independently. In later generations, others could replicate this evolution by fulfilling the necessary genetic conditions. This is why Toneri Ōtsutsuki stole Hanabi Hyuga’s eyes — he sought to obtain the Tenseigan’s power for his plan of carrying out Hamura's will.

Even centuries after Hamura’s death, the Tenseigan was preserved as a sacred relic. The moon’s Ōtsutsuki clan maintained it through ritualistic offerings: successive generations sacrificed their own Byakugan, feeding it into the Tenseigan as a kind of fuel to preserve and prolong it. The Tenseigan is known to grant two primary abilities, one is telekinesis and the other is serving as an energy source (kinda)

IMG-6782.jpg

Earth = Planet, get over it​

In this section I would like to establish another point is that the word Earth, within the context of the movie, is exclusively used to refer to the celestial body. You may find this section a little tedious since the word straight up says planet why bother go the extra mile but I want to vaporize any and all sorts of counter
arguments, if you don’t have issues with terminology contexts then feel free to skip to “Toneri’s Plan” section

A37SOoe.jpg



By setting Earth and the Moon in direct contrast, the narrative reinforces that Earth refers specifically to the planet—the blue celestial body itself instead of a vague “world”





Blue Earth is in reference to the planet’s defining color reinforcing the structure being referred to as a planet.







This section explicitly identifies it as a “celestial body” and a “blue planet.” The visual framing and terminology used here are scientific and astronomical in nature. The image of the earth used just above ^^ is the context of this conversation. By that portrayal of Earth as a floating body in space, the story reinforces its identity as a literal celestial object. So no shenanigans regarding the wording, Earth here is the planet—visibly, narratively, and terminologically. So the destroy-the-planet statements would be in reference to the destruction of the celestial body.

As you can see and verify for yourself, The raws of the novel utilize all the explicit terminology that has to do with reinforcing the idea of celestial bodies





Earth (chikyū) and (Universe) uchū are treated as separate, clearly defined scales—planetary and cosmic respectively, showing differentiated usage like this solidifies that the writers are conscious of the scale their terminology conveys and do genuinely intend to say planet


Destroying “the world” is a common trope in shōnen battle manga, often framed through the word sekai It is unfortunately vague terminology it can mean society, civilization, or the physical planet, and as such, it's routinely left up to fan interpretation in the absence of scale clarification. Naruto itself has made use of such sekai-based destruction statements in the past, without offering us much clarification on their true scale. (Examples are Juubito’s Sword of Nunoboko and Kurama’s destroy-the-world statements)

This case deliberately breaks that pattern.
Instead of sekai, the narrative repeatedly uses 地球 (chikyū)—the scientific term for planet Earth ; as proven above, in the context of the movie this word is used to refer to the celestial body and blue sphere that floats in outer space. Essentially clarifying on the scale of the powers and it isn’t a one-off reference, but a consistent choice that serves to nullify ambiguity.

This sudden switch from vague language to explicit terminology kind of signals clear authorial intent: Furthering the idea that the threat in question is indeed literal planetary destruction.



Toneri's Plan​

As stated before Toneri wishes to ram the moon into the face of the earth and destroy it like a cannon ball, to correct the mistakes of the sage of six path’s world, he will destroy the world by destroying the planet itself

IMG-6783.jpg


This part repeats the moon ramming into earth part as well as tells us that Hinata can destroy the Tenseigan, as it has a curse placed on it



The film begins with a symbolic setup of the moon dropping question being asked to the children, narratively serving as a kind of foreshadowing to the movie’s main plot, the dropping of the moon is visually illustrated, while a bit comical it serves to mirror the main plot of the movie and illustrate what exactly they’re talking about by showing the moon literally dropping in konoha’s ninja academy




IMG-6781.jpg


The same moon-moving telekinetic energy is also being used defensively—to shield the Chamber of Rebirth and the main castle from the outside destruction.

IMG-6780.jpg



Toneri’s plan was to artificially reinstall Earth’s ecosystem via the ark. Inside the COR—his so-called “Ark”—he preserved thousands of paired Earth lifeforms, each intended to serve as the foundation for a new biosphere once the planet gets reconstructed.
But his vision went beyond the biosphere. Toneri saw himself and Hinata as the new beginning of humanity—the Adam and Eve of a recreated world. Once the Earth stabilized, they would awaken from hibernation and repopulate the planet, but as the founders of a new human race.

One may think it says environment and by extension it means surface wiping but the raws simply mean surroundings, which is technically also environment as the latter just means the surrounding conditions in which a certain thing operates so it is referring to the planets surroundings after it’s destroyed aka the chaotic sea of debris that is the result of TPA.

Toneri prepares to seal himself insideand remain hibernating until Earth is rebuilt. This decision makes narrative sense only if the planet is completely destroyed. If the celestial body remained, he could simply leave the COR and continue life then and there.

Naruto and his team reached the Moon via a lake-portal that helped skip the physical distance between the Earth & Moon. Toneri could have done the same—go back the way they came and start life over the planet but he doesn’t since he needs to wait for the Tenseigan to coalesce the debris back into a planet and maintain GBE to reconstruct and sustain a planetary body like it used to when it was Earth


Total Planetary Annihilation​



IMG-6785.jpg


not much to say here, pretty explicit statement the earth that was previously alluded to be the blue celestial body is gonna be destroyed


IMG-6774.jpg


One of my favourite statements and shows to why I believe it is the most blatant meta in all of naruto, whatever is gonna be destroyed the remnants of that will be picked up (sub) / lifted up (dub) to shape a brand new world thanks to the ability of the tenseigan (it’s referring to the scattered debris that will be drawn back together for planetary reconstruction thanks to the Tenseigan’s telekinetic powers)

IMG-6791.jpg

To end it off you get more destroy the Earth (Chikyu) statements to add consistency




With all of these scans I can safely say they dismantle the interpretation that the Tenseigan’s purpose was to destroy and recreate society. The rebuilding of civilization and the reintroduction of life are handled separately through the Ark—not through the Tenseigan itself. Official material makes it clear that the Tenseigan’s role is to reconstruct the Earth using the ashes (remnants) of the destroyed world—that is, by coalescing planetary debris back into a singular celestial body.

Toneri never intended to revive existing society; in fact, he explicitly rejected the continuation of humanity as it was. His goal wasn’t to preserve civilization—it was to erase it and start over. Thus, vague “world” interpretations fall apart here: the context centers entirely on the planet and its environment (the chaotic sea of debris), which the source material directly associates with the aftermath of planetary destruction.

Only after the Earth is physically rebuilt does Toneri plan to reintroduce life and reestablish society from scratch.





Summary​


The planetary comes from the reasons such as follows (to end all arguments)

  • Earth is stated to outright “End” multiple times (Toneri vs Naruto statement, owarasu = to end), if Earth straight up does not exist then it’s no longer a planet and the GBE is overcome
  • Earth is stated to be destroyed (Hakai+Houkai is used, Hakai means violent destruction, this is used when Raikage said the meteors got destroyed, houkai is the non verb form meant to say something is destroyed/obliterated, this was used for toneris plans with the Earth as well as the moon when it was shown disintegrating in the astronomers video)
  • Earth is consistently referred to as a blue celestial body and a blue earth and a planet and paralleled with the moon via explicit statements so the destruction of that is 5B
  • whatever structure Toneri is gonna destroy let’s call it x structure, Toneri states the reconstruction process will involve the tenseigan to lift up (dub) / pick up (sub) the destroyed remnants (ashes statement) and this is necessary for him to rebuild a brand new world which implies coalescing scattered debris, given the tenseigans primarily capability being telekinesis it makes the most sense for it to be planetary reconstruction and is consistent with planet destruction statements
  • As discussed above the story this time shifts to the usage of explicit terminology and in cases where the surface of the earth or the surface of the moon is relevant contextually they will make explicit mention the kanji for the word surface of said structures, this establishes they are well conscious of the scale their terminology conveys as well as acknowledge the difference between surfaic destruction and normal planet busting, deliberately not employing these phrases and terms and instead going explicitly with obliterate Earth / destroy Earth / end Earth statements it further the cements the idea that these powers indeed have 5B authorial intent.

Scaling Chain​


The scaling chain is pretty straightforward
  • Base Naruto destroys the Tenseigan core completely causing it to detransition back into thousands of Byakugan. The Moon’s movement comes to a halt, the same Tenseigan’s telekinetic prowess was strong enough to ram the moon into the earth and cause total planetary annihilation, rebuild the destroyed planet as well as maintain it’s GBE. he scales
  • Toneri awakens his own Tenseigan and by extension is granted equivalent power, his concentrates his power into a powerful beam with full intent trying to kill naruto, naruto face tanks it and they both clash equally. they both scale.
  • As listed in this scan, Kaguya is referred to as the strongest and greatest enemy she is not currently present so we can conclude it is in reference to the many enemies across their history and among them Kaguya is listed as the greatest aside from people that she obviously fears, she is also used as a standard to hype up the gravity of the newer opponents, Toneri is not, momo is special for dwarfing kaguya not toneri so kaguya> toneri is consistent, novels have toneri content and interactions so don't give me the crap about “they forgot about him”, with all this we can safely say v1 Kaguya > TCM Toneri
  • Hinata does not scale for the reasons outlined in the novel excerpts

Sandbox​

Tadaa

Votes :​

Agree : MinatoSparkle, DavidTPPM, Kidkinsey, AlternativePrinciple, Apollonir.Scale, sageof8paths, Duedate8898, Giannysmag, KaydeeX, karo_senpaii, Samlex1234, sukuna171, ssgengar, SlendVeny, DarkDragonMedeus, Hasty12345, Testarossa002, Hjdjdhf, Reiner04, Ecronicron, TokiNoOuja

Disagree : Ezaru

Neutral :
 
Last edited:
I saw this before, so you know I agree ftmp, and what I don't fully agree with (p much just Kaguya vs Toneri) I'm fine with accepting for now at least
 
I agree with this but I don't agree with the idea of Kaguya>Toneri.

Sasuke's not believing in the existence of someone stronger than Kaguya does not include Toneri. Because Toneri is already dead (they know him as dead). So this statement is like I don't believe in the existence of someone stronger than Kaguya among the living. Sasuke didn't see Toneri, that's another thing.
 
I agree with this but I don't agree with the idea of Kaguya>Toneri.

Sasuke's not believing in the existence of someone stronger than Kaguya does not include Toneri. Because Toneri is already dead (they know him as dead). So this statement is like I don't believe in the existence of someone stronger than Kaguya among the living. Sasuke didn't see Toneri, that's another thing.
brother we are not using any sasuke claims, the linked scan uses a narrator statement
 
Kaguya is most definitely above or at least relative to Toneri. It would be absurd to believe Naruto hasn't told Sasuke about him and both them and the narrator refers to Kaguya as the greatest threat they faced.
And that's despite Kaguyas goal being much tamer than Toneris, with Toneri blatantly wanting to annihilate humanity.

But I don't think that's something we should discuss here. That line of scaling was accepted a looong time ago already so this thread just reuses an already accepted thing. Arguing over it would just derail the thread
 
I think most people forgot this mf was hyping up Hamura with his strongest attack
 
I think most people forgot this mf was hyping up Hamura with his strongest attack
Tbh it wasn’t his strongest attack, it was a last ditch effort to replicate the tenseigans powers

You could argue in that vein kaguya being above him is more consistent but ultimately i find the narrator statement to be the best for this take
 
you have made an incredible case as to why it’s specifically talking about the planet as a whole and also why it is not just surface wiping destruction.

i agree
 
I agree with this but I don't agree with the idea of Kaguya>Toneri.

Sasuke's not believing in the existence of someone stronger than Kaguya does not include Toneri. Because Toneri is already dead (they know him as dead). So this statement is like I don't believe in the existence of someone stronger than Kaguya among the living. Sasuke didn't see Toneri, that's another thing.
bro kaguya is stated to have been the greatest threat the world had ever faced at the back of boruto NNG volume 1, just before momoshiki arrives. considering she wasn’t even trying to blow up the planet that says a lot lol.

That along with the other stuff ghost provided, idk why u arguing this lol.
 
Tenseigan Hamura did not move the moon.
Base Hamura also did not use the light of justice (which came from remnants of the Tenseigan), but anyways we're kind of derailing
bro kaguya is stated to have been the greatest threat the world had ever faced at the back of boruto NNG volume 1, just before momoshiki arrives. considering she wasn’t even trying to blow up the planet that says a lot lol.

That along with the other stuff ghost provided, idk why u arguing this lol.
This is a VIZ addition
 
Tenseigan Hamura did not move the moon.
yes, he did not, this in reference to hamura's ability to move the moon because his eye was what is used to move the moon before naruto and hinata destroyed it
This is a VIZ addition
you love educating folks on this scan dont ya 😭
but yes the volume cover stuff is viz adding extra stuff while translating

let's just stick the novel statement calling Kaguya the greatest and strongest enemy, no one is currently contesting that aside apollonir who did not even counter the narrator statement
 
To cut out the derailments, I agree with the OP
With the way “Annihilation of the Earth, Total Destruction of the earth, and Picking up the Ashes of the Earth” were used, I don’t see it as a stretch to come to this conclusion. It’s a topic that’s open to many interpretations and the OP did a good job of narrowing that.
 
On second thought considering this will scale to war arc spsm Naruto eventually I think base Naruto physicals should just scale to his final valley base self. I.e downscaling from half the value.

Sure he destroyed it in base but he did so with ninjutsu. I think he should only get that rating with ninjutsu and then when he's cloaked.

Think about it further if base Naruto scales then that means base toneri also scales. So base toneri scales to his tenseigan self?
 
On second thought considering this will scale to war arc spsm Naruto eventually I think base Naruto physicals should just scale to his final valley base self. I.e downscaling from half the value.

Sure he destroyed it in base but he did so with ninjutsu. I think he should only get that rating with ninjutsu and then when he's cloaked.
At this point in the story his base rasengan more or less scales to himself, TCM toneri face tanked a rasengan and he clashed equally with BSM naruto for an hour, so naruto who currently scales to the tenseigan calcs physically in the wiki is fine as is without needing to change anything
Think about it further if base Naruto scales then that means base toneri also scales. So base toneri scales to his tenseigan self?
TCM Toneri = BSM Naruto > Base Naruto > Tenseigan Core
 
Last edited:
Hello Fellow Naruto Fans, today's CRT will be discussing a bit of The Last Scaling that I wanted to implement after rewatching it, this was poorly proposed in the past so I aim to do this meta justice so without further ado let's begin


3799-D146-E498-4039-80-D6-D56-A7-B81-AB24.jpg

Preface​

After the events with Kaguya where Hagoromo and his brother sealed her and launched her into the moon, Hamura Otsutsuki had migrated to the moon and raised a society there, those people would become the Otsutsuki Clan, Those among the Otsutsuki resided peacefully in the moon thanks to Hamura's Tenseigan that helps bring about order to the moon world, among his descendants was Toneri Otsutsuki, Misreading Hamura’s celestial decree he decided that he wanted to destroy the world that the Sage of Six Paths Hagoromo had built up and he planned on doing so by ramming the moon into the face of earth with enough force to wipe out the whole planet, using the ocular telekinetic powers of the Tenseigan Toneri would reconstruct the shattered planet in which he will begin his new reign in where he will repopulate the world believing he is fixing Hagoromo’s mistakes in accordance to Hamura’s will, essentially a brand new world with a clean slate ready to develop again without old imperfections of mankind

The Tenseigan​

The Tenseigan serves as a counterpart to Hagoromo’s Rinnegan, with both dōjutsu representing divine ocular evolutions from their respective lineages. Conceptually, they follow a parallel structure:
Hamura awakened the original Tenseigan independently. In later generations, others could replicate this evolution by fulfilling the necessary genetic conditions. This is why Toneri Ōtsutsuki stole Hanabi Hyuga’s eyes — he sought to obtain the Tenseigan’s power for his plan of carrying out Hamura's will.

Even centuries after Hamura’s death, the Tenseigan was preserved as a sacred relic. The moon’s Ōtsutsuki clan maintained it through ritualistic offerings: successive generations sacrificed their own Byakugan, feeding it into the Tenseigan as a kind of fuel to preserve and prolong it. The Tenseigan is known to grant two primary abilities, one is telekinesis and the other is serving as an energy source (kinda)

IMG-6782.jpg

Earth = Planet, get over it​

In this section I would like to establish another point is that the word Earth, within the context of the movie, is exclusively used to refer to the celestial body. You may find this section a little tedious since the word straight up says planet why bother go the extra mile but I want to vaporize any and all sorts of counter
arguments, if you don’t have issues with terminology contexts then feel free to skip to “Toneri’s Plan” section

A37SOoe.jpg





By setting Earth and the Moon in direct contrast, the narrative reinforces that Earth refers specifically to the planet—the blue celestial body itself instead of a vague “world”






Blue Earth is in reference to the planet’s defining color reinforcing the structure being referred to as a planet.









This section explicitly identifies it as a “celestial body” and a “blue planet.” The visual framing and terminology used here are scientific and astronomical in nature. The image of the earth used just above ^^ is the context of this conversation. By that portrayal of Earth as a floating body in space, the story reinforces its identity as a literal celestial object. So no shenanigans regarding the wording, Earth here is the planet—visibly, narratively, and terminologically. So the destroy-the-planet statements would be in reference to the destruction of the celestial body.


As you can see and verify for yourself, The raws of the novel utilize all the explicit terminology that has to do with reinforcing the idea of celestial bodies






Earth (chikyū) and (Universe) uchū are treated as separate, clearly defined scales—planetary and cosmic respectively, showing differentiated usage like this solidifies that the writers are conscious of the scale their terminology conveys and do genuinely intend to say planet


Destroying “the world” is a common trope in shōnen battle manga, often framed through the word sekai It is unfortunately vague terminology it can mean society, civilization, or the physical planet, and as such, it's routinely left up to fan interpretation in the absence of scale clarification. Naruto itself has made use of such sekai-based destruction statements in the past, without offering us much clarification on their true scale. (Examples are Juubito’s Sword of Nunoboko and Kurama’s destroy-the-world statements)

This case deliberately breaks that pattern.
Instead of sekai, the narrative repeatedly uses 地球 (chikyū)—the scientific term for planet Earth ; as proven above, in the context of the movie this word is used to refer to the celestial body and blue sphere that floats in outer space. Essentially clarifying on the scale of the powers and it isn’t a one-off reference, but a consistent choice that serves to nullify ambiguity.

This sudden switch from vague language to explicit terminology kind of signals clear authorial intent: Furthering the idea that the threat in question is indeed literal planetary destruction.



Toneri's Plan​

As stated before Toneri wishes to ram the moon into the face of the earth and destroy it like a cannon ball, to correct the mistakes of the sage of six path’s world, he will destroy the world by destroying the planet itself

IMG-6783.jpg



This part repeats the moon ramming into earth part as well as tells us that Hinata can destroy the Tenseigan, as it has a curse placed on it



The film begins with a symbolic setup of the moon dropping question being asked to the children, narratively serving as a kind of foreshadowing to the movie’s main plot, the dropping of the moon is visually illustrated, while a bit comical it serves to mirror the main plot of the movie and illustrate what exactly they’re talking about by showing the moon literally dropping in konoha’s ninja academy




IMG-6781.jpg



The same moon-moving telekinetic energy is also being used defensively—to shield the Chamber of Rebirth and the main castle from the outside destruction.

IMG-6780.jpg





Toneri’s plan was to artificially reinstall Earth’s ecosystem via the ark. Inside the COR—his so-called “Ark”—he preserved thousands of paired Earth lifeforms, each intended to serve as the foundation for a new biosphere once the planet gets reconstructed.
But his vision went beyond the biosphere. Toneri saw himself and Hinata as the new beginning of humanity—the Adam and Eve of a recreated world. Once the Earth stabilized, they would awaken from hibernation and repopulate the planet, but as the founders of a new human race.

One may think it says environment and by extension it means surface wiping but the raws simply mean surroundings, which is technically also environment as the latter just means the surrounding conditions in which a certain thing operates so it is referring to the planets surroundings after it’s destroyed aka the chaotic sea of debris that is the result of TPA.

Toneri prepares to seal himself insideand remain hibernating until Earth is rebuilt. This decision makes narrative sense only if the planet is completely destroyed. If the celestial body remained, he could simply leave the COR and continue life then and there.

Naruto and his team reached the Moon via a lake-portal that helped skip the physical distance between the Earth & Moon. Toneri could have done the same—go back the way they came and start life over the planet but he doesn’t since he needs to wait for the Tenseigan to coalesce the debris back into a planet and maintain GBE to reconstruct and sustain a planetary body like it used to when it was Earth


Total Planetary Annihilation​



IMG-6785.jpg



not much to say here, pretty explicit statement the earth that was previously alluded to be the blue celestial body is gonna be destroyed


IMG-6774.jpg



One of my favourite statements and shows to why I believe it is the most blatant meta in all of naruto, whatever is gonna be destroyed the remnants of that will be picked up (sub) / lifted up (dub) to shape a brand new world thanks to the ability of the tenseigan (it’s referring to the scattered debris that will be drawn back together for planetary reconstruction thanks to the Tenseigan’s telekinetic powers)

IMG-6791.jpg

To end it off you get more destroy the Earth (Chikyu) statements to add consistency




With all of these scans I can safely say they dismantle the interpretation that the Tenseigan’s purpose was to destroy and recreate society. The rebuilding of civilization and the reintroduction of life are handled separately through the Ark—not through the Tenseigan itself. Official material makes it clear that the Tenseigan’s role is to reconstruct the Earth using the ashes (remnants) of the destroyed world—that is, by coalescing planetary debris back into a singular celestial body.

Toneri never intended to revive existing society; in fact, he explicitly rejected the continuation of humanity as it was. His goal wasn’t to preserve civilization—it was to erase it and start over. Thus, vague “world” interpretations fall apart here: the context centers entirely on the planet and its environment (the chaotic sea of debris), which the source material directly associates with the aftermath of planetary destruction.

Only after the Earth is physically rebuilt does Toneri plan to reintroduce life and reestablish society from scratch.





Summary​


The planetary comes from the reasons such as follows (to end all arguments)

  • Earth is stated to outright “End” multiple times (Toneri vs Naruto statement, owarasu = to end), if Earth straight up does not exist then it’s no longer a planet and the GBE is overcome
  • Earth is stated to be destroyed (Hakai+Houkai is used, Hakai means violent destruction, this is used when Raikage said the meteors got destroyed, houkai is the non verb form meant to say something is destroyed/obliterated, this was used for toneris plans with the Earth as well as the moon when it was shown disintegrating in the astronomers video)
  • Earth is consistently referred to as a blue celestial body and a blue earth and a planet and paralleled with the moon via explicit statements so the destruction of that is 5B
  • whatever structure Toneri is gonna destroy let’s call it x structure, Toneri states the reconstruction process will involve the tenseigan to lift up (dub) / pick up (sub) the destroyed remnants (ashes statement) and this is necessary for him to rebuild a brand new world which implies coalescing scattered debris, given the tenseigans primarily capability being telekinesis it makes the most sense for it to be planetary reconstruction and is consistent with planet destruction statements

Scaling Chain​


The scaling chain is pretty straightforward
  • Base Naruto destroys the Tenseigan core completely causing it to detransition back into thousands of Byakugan. The Moon’s movement comes to a halt, the same Tenseigan’s telekinetic prowess was strong enough to ram the moon into the earth and cause total planetary annihilation, rebuild the destroyed planet as well as maintain it’s GBE. he scales
  • Toneri awakens his own Tenseigan and by extension is granted equivalent power, his concentrates his power into a powerful beam with full intent trying to kill naruto, naruto face tanks it and they both clash equally. they both scale.
  • As listed in this scan, Kaguya is referred to as the strongest and greatest enemy she is not currently present so we can conclude it is in reference to the many enemies across their history and among them Kaguya is listed as the greatest aside from people that she obviously fears, she is also used as a standard to hype up the gravity of the newer opponents, Toneri is not, momo is special for dwarfing kaguya not toneri so kaguya> toneri is consistent, novels have toneri content and interactions so don't give me the crap about “they forgot about him”, with all this we can safely say v1 Kaguya > TCM Toneri
  • Hinata does not scale for the reasons outlined in the novel excerpts

Sandbox​

Tadaa

Votes :​

Agree : MinatoSparkle, DavidTPPM, Kidkinsey, AlternativePrinciple, Apollonir.Scale, sageof8paths, Duedate8898, Giannysmag, KaydeeX, karo_senpaii

Disagree :

Neutral :
I agree. Great work @Ghostimuscrime
 
At this point in the story his base rasengan more or less scales to himself, TCM toneri face tanked a rasengan and he clashed equally with BSM naruto for an hour, so naruto who currently scales to the tenseigan calcs physically in the wiki is fine as is without needing to change anything

TCM Toneri = BSM Naruto > Base Naruto > Tenseigan Core
That's not what I remember. In the movie every time I saw Naruto use a rasengan toneri always blocked with the tso is some way . The only time he directed took it was when Naruto attacked from under and that area became bruised immediately and lost it's cloak aura
 
base rasengans are not superior to narutos striking strength otherwise he wouldn't physically clash with toneri so many times, the fact that a finishing move was a chakra amped punch instead of a rasengan should be more than enough to tell you, at this stage his punches can be amped like the base rasengans

That's not what I remember. In the movie every time I saw Naruto use a rasengan toneri always blocked with the tso is some way .
toneri only used TSO to block attacks that are well above naruto's base rasengans
-rasenshuriken (scales weeeell above his base rasengan)
-planetary rasengan (multiplier attack, superior version of RSB)
-rasengan barrage (explicitly stated 2x multiplier)

The BASE rasengan? toneri just tanks it straight up, no tso, no ducking, just straight hands
and naruto only uses this here is because of convenience since it's harder to reach otherwise he'd just keep punching toneri
https://media.**********.net/attachments/971375965945098270/1368780938640756787/image.png?ex=68197816&is=68182696&hm=aaba553344f32f2995497024ca2c962872b898fd19522562ad76d75395598e19&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1155&height=770
https://media.**********.net/attachments/971375965945098270/1368783041983680553/image.png?ex=68197a0b&is=6818288b&hm=f153f0045a99e4868b9ec7641f35e68bc4c28e10697f763277088b6c6071dc01&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1155&height=770

This is a blatant durability feat, there's no arguing around it
became bruised immediately and lost it's cloak aura
getting tiny scratches while you withstand the main force never deters you from scaling dude what??
the second part is just completely made up
 
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base rasengans are not superior to narutos striking strength otherwise he wouldn't physically clash with toneri so many times, the fact that a finishing move was a chakra amped punch instead of a rasengan should be more than enough to tell you, at this stage his punches can be amped like the base rasengans
It doesn't matter what "stage" Naruto's at, however strong he is, the Rasengan is just a large AP amplifier cause it's compressing and concentrating violently rotating chakra at the highest level of change in form, which is a key method to increase power. Concentrating all his chakra to the point that the rest of his body reverts to base is not the same as his regular striking strength.
The BASE rasengan? toneri just tanks it straight up, no tso, no ducking, just straight hands
and naruto only uses this here is because of convenience since it's harder to reach otherwise he'd just keep punching toneri
https://media.**********.net/attachments/971375965945098270/1368780938640756787/image.png?ex=68197816&is=68182696&hm=aaba553344f32f2995497024ca2c962872b898fd19522562ad76d75395598e19&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1155&height=770
https://media.**********.net/attachments/971375965945098270/1368783041983680553/image.png?ex=68197a0b&is=6818288b&hm=f153f0045a99e4868b9ec7641f35e68bc4c28e10697f763277088b6c6071dc01&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1155&height=770

This is a blatant durability feat, there's no arguing around it
Um
main-qimg-52ea92dc2c74aa8a2d5a109b70ba3176
 
bro
getting tiny scratches while you withstand the main force never deters you from scaling dude what??
the second part is just completely made up

It doesn't matter what "stage" Naruto's at, however strong he is, the Rasengan is just a large AP amplifier cause it's compressing and concentrating violently rotating chakra at the highest level of change in form, which is a key method to increase power. Concentrating all his chakra to the point that the rest of his body reverts to base is not the same as his regular striking strength.

being an AP amplifier =/= it always being above chakra amped punches, the ending blow that defeated toneri was a chakra amped punch and that's more explicit


(Also naruto's scaled to the tenseigan right now based on the H6A calcs so if you feel strongly I'd suggest making a CRT to remove that, it kinda clutters up this thread yk?)
 
base rasengans are not superior to narutos striking strength otherwise he wouldn't physically clash with toneri so many times, the fact that a finishing move was a chakra amped punch instead of a rasengan should be more than enough to tell you, at this stage his punches can be amped like the base rasengans


toneri only used TSO to block attacks that are well above naruto's base rasengans
-rasenshuriken (scales weeeell above his base rasengan)
-planetary rasengan (multiplier attack, superior version of RSB)
-rasengan barrage (explicitly stated 2x multiplier)

The BASE rasengan? toneri just tanks it straight up, no tso, no ducking, just straight hands
and naruto only uses this here is because of convenience since it's harder to reach otherwise he'd just keep punching toneri
https://media.**********.net/attachments/971375965945098270/1368780938640756787/image.png?ex=68197816&is=68182696&hm=aaba553344f32f2995497024ca2c962872b898fd19522562ad76d75395598e19&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1155&height=770
https://media.**********.net/attachments/971375965945098270/1368783041983680553/image.png?ex=68197a0b&is=6818288b&hm=f153f0045a99e4868b9ec7641f35e68bc4c28e10697f763277088b6c6071dc01&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1155&height=770

This is a blatant durability feat, there's no arguing around it

getting tiny scratches while you withstand the main force never deters you from scaling dude what??
the second part is just completely made up
His rasengan can be stronger and he would still clash with toneri. Unless fears show otherwise I don't just believe Naruto ss in base is equal to his rasengan.
I think you're misunderstanding me. I said base Naruto physicals should down scale from half the value as it was prior. This doesn't affect tenseigan cloaked toneri. Both cloaked Naruto and toneri would scale to the full value. It is based toneri and Naruto that would be affected. So most of what you're arguing about isn't necessarily. You can't use tenseigan toneri to argue that base toneri should scale.

Both base Naruto and toneri physicals have no feats of scaling to Naruto's rasengan. Like I'm just saying follow the current scaling
 
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