Uta vs Makima (1-9-0)

[Johner2133451]

Uta (One Piece)

Uta is a world-famous singer, or "diva" and the adopted daughter of Shanks and acted as the musician of his crew before he abandoned her on the island of Elegia with her foster father, Gordon who supported her dream of starting a "New Era" and later her desire to achieve this dream through a...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Makima

Makima (マキマ?) is the enigmatic leader of Public Safety Devil Extermination Special Division 4 as well as the Chief Cabinet Secretary's Personal Devil Hunter. Her true identity is later revealed to be that of the Control Devil, the fear of control and domination embodied who seeks to utilize the...

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Speed equalized

Uta: @Johner2133451

Makima: @Entity, @Purgy, @Robo432343, @Raiden38, @That_moron2, @ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn, @Zabazab, @Shar122, @Razor

Incon:

 

[That_moron2]

Following

 

[Johner2133451]

Bump

 

[That_moron2]

I guess it depends on who can get their hax off first. Put me down as incon until further votes

 

[Johner2133451]

I guess it depends on who can get their hax off first. Put me down as incon until further votes

It also depends if Makima considers Uta as inferior or no for Makima's mind hax to work

 

[Kachon123]

Generally what would make Makima perceive Uta as inferior to her? Uta has some pretty good social influencing (noted in her Powers and Abilities section) so I doubt that coming into the match Makima would see Uta as an inferior. Could be wrong though

 

[That_moron2]

Generally what would make Makima perceive Uta as inferior to her? Uta has some pretty good social influencing (noted in her Powers and Abilities section) so I doubt that coming into the match Makima would see Uta as an inferior. Could be wrong though

Its kind of Makima's default iirc

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Generally what would make Makima perceive Uta as inferior to her? Uta has some pretty good social influencing (noted in her Powers and Abilities section) so I doubt that coming into the match Makima would see Uta as an inferior. Could be wrong though

Makima just sees anyone besides Chainsaw Man (and specifically Pochita, not Denji) as inferior to her.

 

[Kachon123]

Its kind of Makima's default iirc

I mean sure but Uta is like the world's #1 most famous and beloved person. It's elaborated more on her profile, but if that's Makima's default for normal people I'm wondering if the same would apply here

 

[That_moron2]

It's elaborated more on her profile

I made the profile

 

[Kachon123]

I made the profile

I'm aware (we're in the same gc). Makima's "default" likely won't be the case here which is why I brought it up.

 

[That_moron2]

Makima's "default" likely won't be the case here which is why I brought it up.

I'm pretty sure it will. She really doesn't care about how humans see other people.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

I mean sure but Uta is like the world's #1 most famous and beloved person. It's elaborated more on her profile, but if that's Makima's default for normal people I'm wondering if the same would apply here

Makima would genuinely not care about that. If she's not Pochita-Chainsaw Man, then she would be inferior in Makima's eyes.

 

[Kachon123]

I'm pretty sure it will. She really doesn't care about how humans see other people.

Well then wouldn't the influx of Uta's emotions as she sings just break out of it? Uta's a pretty emotional person.

 

[That_moron2]

Well then wouldn't the influx of Uta's emotions as she sings just break out of it? Uta's a pretty emotional person.

You're refering to the willpower resistance thing?

 

[Kachon123]

You're refering to the willpower resistance thing?

The weakness on Makima's profile

Her abilities as the the Control Devil are not perfect as an influx of strong emotions have been shown to be able to break free from Makima's control as seen with Angel.

 

[That_moron2]

The weakness on Makima's profile

If Makima just tells her that's an order they go right back to being under her control

 

[Kachon123]

If Makima just tells her that's an order they go right back to being under her control

Yeah, that's not my point. If the question is who gets their hax of first and because if they can both do it instantly it's incon, then since byproduct of Uta's hax allows her to break out of Makima's hax (even if momentarily) while Makima has no way to break out of Uta's once she's hit, it's not a perfect incon and Uta would win more times than not.

 

[That_moron2]

Yeah, that's not my point. If the question is who gets their hax of first and because if they can both do it instantly it's incon, the byproduct of Uta's hax allows her to break out of Makima's hax (even if momentarily) while Makima has no way to break out of Uta's once she's hit. Meaning it's not a perfect incon and Uta would win more times than not.

Ah that makes sense.

 

[Razor]

Uta's wincon is singing judging from her profile, Makima's wincon is seeing uta as inferior to her. One is action based one is thought based so makima gets her hax off first. Secondly how is Uta even going to sing right after being under makima's control? When angel first got controlled by makima he literally lost all memories of what happened until after makima released that control, the only reason angel was able to tell aki to "stop" in that moment was because makima wasn't actively controlling him.

When Makima actively controls someone (like she did with angel) that person seemingly loses all conscious thought or action and even loses any memory of what happened afterwards, Uta won't be able to sing, and since her goal iss to kill uta not use her as a puppet the second she gets uta in control she can just command her to off herself.

 

[Johner2133451]

bump

 

[Entity]

voting Makima for reasons above

 

[Johner2133451]

Uta's wincon is singing judging from her profile, Makima's wincon is seeing uta as inferior to her. One is action based one is thought based so makima gets her hax off first. Secondly how is Uta even going to sing right after being under makima's control? When angel first got controlled by makima he literally lost all memories of what happened until after makima released that control, the only reason angel was able to tell aki to "stop" in that moment was because makima wasn't actively controlling him.

When Makima actively controls someone (like she did with angel) that person seemingly loses all conscious thought or action and even loses any memory of what happened afterwards, Uta won't be able to sing, and since her goal iss to kill uta not use her as a puppet the second she gets uta in control she can just command her to off herself.

But would Makima sees Uta as inferior? In her mind hax descriptions, she views it by personality and actions

 

[Kachon123]

Uta's wincon is singing judging from her profile, Makima's wincon is seeing uta as inferior to her. One is action based one is thought based so makima gets her hax off first. Secondly how is Uta even going to sing right after being under makima's control? When angel first got controlled by makima he literally lost all memories of what happened until after makima released that control, the only reason angel was able to tell aki to "stop" in that moment was because makima wasn't actively controlling him.

When Makima actively controls someone (like she did with angel) that person seemingly loses all conscious thought or action and even loses any memory of what happened afterwards, Uta won't be able to sing, and since her goal iss to kill uta not use her as a puppet the second she gets uta in control she can just command her to off herself.

Doesn't Makima have to give an order? Both of those require the same amount of time. As for Makima's memory and consciousness manipulation, Uta is in a constant state of Self-Madness Manipulation due to the Wake Mushrooms, which cause her emotions to be on overdrive uncontrollably.

 

[Johner2133451]

Uta fra

 

[Razor]

Doesn't Makima have to give an order? Both of those require the same amount of time. As for Makima's memory and consciousness manipulation, Uta is in a constant state of Self-Madness Manipulation due to the Wake Mushrooms, which cause her emotions to be on overdrive uncontrollably.

After she has already put you in her control state, to actually put you in a state where she can control you all she has to do is give a thought.
I looked at Uta's profile and all the wake mushrooms do is keep the user from falling asleep and eventually makes them too angry, I don't see how this is able to override the control of Makima who is able to control literally everyone initially with a glance. Emotion isn't some sort of Achilles ' heel situation where the slightest bit of emotion completely counters Makima's control, like I said the only reason Angel was even able to show any emotion outside of makima's control is because she wasn't getting controlled by makima actively in the moment. He didn't even get a chance when he was (when makima forced him into killing his entire tribe, you'd think it would cause some emotional reaction, but it didn't matter, he got controlled anyways)

 

[Kachon123]

After she has already put you in her control state, to actually put you in a state where she can control you all she has to do is give a thought.

It takes a thought for Makima to view Uta as an inferior, but to actually give an order, she needs to give an order.

 

[Razor]

It takes a thought for Makima to view Uta as an inferior, but to actually give an order, she needs to give an order.

Iirc, the moment Makima thinks herself as superior Uta would already be undder her control. The order is given after the fact.

 

[Kachon123]

Iirc, the moment Makima thinks herself as superior Uta would already be undder her control. The order is given after the fact.

Is there a scan for this?

 

[That_moron2]

Iirc, the moment Makima thinks herself as superior Uta would already be undder her control. The order is given after the fact.

This isn't true. People like Kishibe aren't under her control

 

[Razor]

Is there a scan for this?

It's conjecture based on the fact that Makima can use this ability on dead creatures and animals who aren't able to perceive orders in the first place, which makes me think the orders she says out loud are unnecessary, especially because she sometimes orders them to do things without her signature "That's an order phrase".

This isn't true. People like Kishibe aren't under her control

And how does that disprove this? Makima had no need to control Kishibe, and if she wanted to why couldn't she just say an order to him? There's also the possibility that kishibe is one of the few people that Makima doesn't outright see herself as superior to.

 

[That_moron2]

Makima had no need to control Kishibe

If its really passive, then he would be if she needed to or not.

and if she wanted to why couldn't she just say an order to him?

She could, but that's not relevant since I'm arguing on if its passive or not

There's also the possibility that kishibe is one of the few people that Makima doesn't outright see herself as superior to.

Totally unsupported.

 

[Razor]

If its really passive, then he would be if she needed to or not.

She could, but that's not relevant since I'm arguing on if its passive or not

Totally unsupported.

I never said it was passive? If it was then everyone would've been under makima's control save for Pochita. All I said was that to be under her control is thought based, and at that moment the target loses any conscious thought. Her profile also has her abilities scaling to Nayuta, who controlled a devil without doing the whole "That's an order thing", she didn't even speak to the devil iirc.

 

[That_moron2]

All I said was that to be under her control is thought based, and at that moment the target loses any conscious thought.

My bad. Still, that's unsupported.

Her profile also has her abilities scaling to Nayuta, who controlled a devil without doing the whole "That's an order thing", she didn't even speak to the devil iirc.

Nayuta had a chain through its brain. I.E not thought based

 

[Zabazab]

Conquest isn't a passive ability and it's unclear if it's thought-based or based on perceptable commands.

She doesn't say a word while controlling animals or the deceased. She also doesn't say a word while summoning those she has conquered to fight the Gun Devil and use a combination ability. But she does use a verbal order on Angel to reinstate her control over him.

Given her character, it's genuinely possible she's just aura farming by making audible commands. She's a poser through-and-through.

 

[Razor]

My bad. Still, that's unsupported.

Nayuta had a chain through its brain. I.E not thought based

So is her having to give an order though. And I think the ability working on dead people / animals doesn't really support the idea that she needs to give out an order to control someone, given that they literally cant hear / understand what makima is even saying, yet are still put under her control.

Oh thats mb, I forgot about that.

 

[Razor]

Given her character, it's genuinely possible she's just aura farming by making audible commands. She's a poser through-and-through.

That's what I think as well

 

[That_moron2]

So is her having to give an order though. And I think the ability working on dead people / animals doesn't really support the idea that she needs to give out an order to control someone, given that they literally cant hear / understand what makima is even saying, yet are still put under her control.

Oh thats mb, I forgot about that.

To be clear I think she can give thought based orders but I don't think she can put someone under control via thought

 

[Razor]

To be clear I think she can give thought based orders but I don't think she can put someone under control via thought

I understand what you're arguing for but you haven't given a strong enough evidence as to why you think that is the case.

 

[That_moron2]

I understand what you're arguing for but you haven't given a strong enough evidence as to why you think that is the case.

I just don't see anything indicating it is thought based. Everything you've presented have been thought based commands, not her placing someone under control with her thoughts