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Muffet (Undertale) vs. Tatsumi (Akame ga Kill!) - The Mooks and Crooks Bracket Round 1 Match 4 (7-0-0)

The_Impress

The_Impress

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Welcome to the Mooks and Crooks Bracket Round One!

Muffet (Nominated by Eden_Warlock99) vs. Tatsumi (Nominated by YmTheSuper)

High 8-C end used for Tatsumi, Supersonic+ end used for Muffet

Some more rules:

In-character, starting at a distance of 8 meters, the match is set in an underground boxing ring within an alternate universe Bar With No Name
Speed UNequalized
Rest SBA

With that said, let the match begin!​
MuffetBattleStill.png
Base_Tatsumi.png
 
Trying speed unequalized for now, we'll see if it's a horrible idea

Tatsumi is Mach 3.33, Muffet's Mach 4.37
 
Muffet is a bit stronger (7.28 Tons vs. 4.98 Tons) but I’m pretty sure Tatsumi’s got some upscaling that’d put them more or less on even ground.
That said, it’s worth pointing out that because of how attacking the SOUL works in UT, Muffet’s gonna kill Tatsumi in way less hits than it’d normally take.
(Basically since Tatsumi's SOUL would have 20 HP, she’d need about 5 hits to kill him)

Tatsumi does appear to be really skilled, but Purple Mode is going to seriously limit his movements. Can't he just free himself? Well, the webs are noted as being spectral in her profile and even if he could interact with them, her regular webs can’t be broken by someone who’s a whole one-shot above her.

Add in the fact that Muffet’s up there with some of the toughest attack patterns in the game and Tatsumi (I think at least) not really having dealt with anything akin to UT danmaku before, this does feel like it leans in Muffet's favor.
 
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Tatsumi should upscale quite a lot from 4.98 Tons since he one-shot the Earth dragon that preformed the feat. (It's also a chapter 1 feat, he has grown a lot since then)

Regarding skill, Tatsumi is very skilled, being completely aware of his surroundings and getting used to his opponents' fighting styles, analyzing them and adjusting properly allowing him to predict their next moves. (which would be useful against Muffet's danmaku, since a lot of her patterns can be predictable at times) and as a skilled assassin he should capable of sensing bloodlust/Killing intent (would be useful against Muffet's spiders since he can detect when they attacks.)

He is even capable of holding his own against people that are faster and more experienced than him like Akame and Nyau for brief periods, even landing a small hit on Zanku, who is stronger than him and can read his mind.

And while Tatsumi usually relies on his stealth to give him an even bigger advantage that wouldn't be useful in a boxing ring, although he has already fought in a similar environment like the tournament he participated in where he managed to defeat skilled martial artists with no problem.
Eden_Warlock99 said:
even if he could interact with them, her regular webs can’t be broken by someone who’s a whole one-shot above her.
Click to expand...
Breaking from webs has to do with LS, not AP. If he can interact with the webs he should be able to break out of them, either via his Class M LS or via his sword. And are her strings really intangible? They aren't stated to be so, she was also shown to be capable of making real webs like the one she used to trap frisk and the profile doesn't give them intangibility (Although it does list them as spectral and she directly manipulates Frisk's SOUL making it purple so I guess they can be considered intangible with this information)

Also is there anything stopping Tatsumi from cutting Muffet's attacks since she uses actual physical things like donuts and spiders in her attacks and since monster magic in general can be used physically, like how Toriel uses fire magic to cook and even uses it to attack Flowey who doesn't have a SOUL (Also, only Sans has intangible attacks in his profile)

And I wouldn't exactly call Tatsumi completely inexperienced with danmaku since he dodged this and fought many people at once (yes he didn't do this in base but the skill and experience should also apply to his base form).
 
YmTheSuper said:
Breaking from webs has to do with LS, not AP. If he can interact with the webs he should be able to break out of them, either via his Class M LS or via his sword. And are her strings really intangible? They aren't stated to be so, she was also shown to be capable of making real webs like the one she used to trap frisk and the profile doesn't give them intangibility (Although it does list them as spectral and she directly manipulates Frisk's SOUL making it purple so I guess they can be considered intangible with this information)
Click to expand...
Not too sure, but wouldn't breaking free from the webs require breaking them? The webs themselves being High 8-C probably makes that a fair bit harder.
But yeah, the Purple Mode webs are distinct from her regular webs (Frisk was already tied up in her normal webs before the fight even started and Muffet used Purple Mode to specifically entangle their SOUL. The narration even points out how strange the Purple Mode web is).
Also is there anything stopping Tatsumi from cutting Muffet's attacks since she uses actual physical things like donuts and spiders in her attacks and since monster magic in general can be used physically, like how Toriel uses fire magic to cook and even uses it to attack Flowey who doesn't have a SOUL (Also, only Sans has intangible attacks in his profile)
Click to expand...
Maybe? The spiders themselves don’t exactly seem too fragile considering they're one of the few bullets in UT that don't vanish on contact with the SOUL.
There's also Muffet's Pet which is treated as such a threat to Frisk that their only option against it is to flee.

That said, it does seem like most the small spiders are pretty disposable, with her letting her Pet eat a dozen or so each time it attacks and Muffet herself pouring Frisk a whole cup of them mid-fight, so don't think it's a huge advantage.
And I wouldn't exactly call Tatsumi completely inexperienced with danmaku since he dodged this and fought many people at once
Click to expand...
Fair, although Muffet's attacks do usually outspeed Frisk who's already x1.3 as fast as Tatsumi is here.
 
It's weird, for the LS and AP discrepancy, Tatsumi can pull away from the webs because their grip strength is LS, but snapping or breaking them is an AP feat. So webs end up being like, equivalent to webs made out of steel wires or smth for perspective.

Also oneshot scaling isn't 7.5x or smth, it's just a vague upscale.
 
The_Impress said:
It's weird, for the LS and AP discrepancy, Tatsumi can pull away from the webs because their grip strength is LS, but snapping or breaking them is an AP feat. So webs end up being like, equivalent to webs made out of steel wires or smth for perspective.
Click to expand...
Honestly what I imagine is the one scene in Mahoraga vs Sukuna where the former's been tied up by a bunch of wire that the latter sorta lead them into throughout that part of the fight and it holds them down for a bit, but then they just start dragging everything the wires are attached to so they can keep charging (Which, granted isn't quite shown in what I linked but that was the only one lacking enough cuts for at least some part of the scene to be in, anime copyright be like that)

For some takes on more stuff...
Eden_Warlock99 said:
There's also Muffet's Pet which is treated as such a threat to Frisk that their only option against it is to flee.
Click to expand...
Well like, they don't exactly have the option to ATTACK said pet because they're in the evasion phase and the thing doesn't instakill FRISK or something. You have to remember that the restraints of combat are actually flat out canon, so something doesn't have to be far superior to be non viable to attack like this, they just lack the option to try it out
YmTheSuper said:
And I wouldn't exactly call Tatsumi completely inexperienced with danmaku since he dodged this and fought many people at once (yes he didn't do this in base but the skill and experience should also apply to his base form).
Click to expand...
The potential speed gap would certainly apply in these given cases given it's random grunts and him not really weaving through but just getting out of dodge of the given Danmaku (Which is always a valid strategy. For how hyped up that ability is, a shield or just moving in the opposite direction does kind of mog it)

It's not like the gaps between Muffet's attacks are too thin to move through and Tatsumi is noted to have experience in just watching an opponent to know how their attacks are coming and deal with it, so I don't think that much is really insurmountable pressure that prevents him from closing the gap and taking some swings
 
One very big problem is that both are too equal in terms of their arguments. I do know this won't be incon, but like Muffet can do what Tatsumi can counter, and vice versa rn. We kinda need more elaboration.
 
I'll elaborate a bit more. So Tatsumi can get an emotional buff while fighting his opponent, in this scan he was losing against Ogre, a captain of the imperial police and a skilled and feared fighter, and then due to a burst of determination he managed to overpower him (I'm not sure how applicable this would be here considering Ogre said some horrible stuff to Tatsumi although I guess you could argue that he could get a burst of determination if he ever gets cornered, in addition to him adapting to his opponents' attacks either way).

Although I have to say I don't believe the danmaku will really pose a problem since Tatsumi can predict her attacks considering he does adapt and counter his opponents' attack via observing them (+ the fact that Muffet's attacks follow patterns which will make them more easily predictable especially to someone like Tatsumi), the fact he has fought faster opponents before (even someone who is stronger than him and that can read his mind, although for a brief period) should help him even further, all of this in addition to him vastly outskilling Muffet and having a lot more experience than her (having trained since childhood and overall participating in a lot of fights and training a lot) should make her danmaku easily manageable (also the fact that there's nothing really stopping him from cutting down her danmaku attacks which include regular physical objects like donuts, croissants and her spiders, which he can deal with). Also I do believe that if he gets hit by one of Muffet's attacks he wouldn't really have a problem in terms of mobility (he can fight while being injured) and he will be more careful in Dodging her attacks due to knowing how much damage her attacks do.

When Tatsumi fights an opponent he starts by attacking vital areas with his sword (due to him being an assassin, usually aiming to take down his opponent in one attack) which would make him either take Muffet down when he gets in range or leave her heavily injured.

Also regarding the LS difference, if Tatsumi does close the gap and restrain Muffet at any point the fight would just be over since she would have no way of escaping. (although he doesn't really fight by grappling, I just wanted to add this point).

DMUA said:
and him not really weaving through but just getting out of dodge of the given Danmaku
Click to expand...
Tbh he got out of the range of the first barrage of missiles after they got fired.
 
So, considering speed and AP advantage with limited durability negationm and that purple mode is also likely like nothing Tatsumi ever faced against, I'll vote for Muffet.
 
TheOrangeGuy09 said:
So, considering speed and AP advantage with limited durability negationm and that purple mode is also likely like nothing Tatsumi ever faced against, I'll vote for Muffet.
Click to expand...
Yeah I can't really think of much more and they do have just a little bit of an edge, they can mitigate danmaku and purple mode but more numbers and range generally just does more
 
I'll proactively vote for Muffet but I am real open to more Tatsumi arguments. I'd actually argue for Tatsumi but I only watched the anime and haven't touched it in a long time.
 
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