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Tanjiro vs Maki (7-5-0)
- Thread starter Catbowtie
- Start date
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Less maneuverable, maybe (Technically, he could make maneuverable movements. He just can't build up speed if he does). But I don't think that matters when the speedblitz gap was so massive that Maki couldn't even react to him from hundreds of meters away despite Maki preparing for him before he even charged at her. Unless Tanjiro's speed amp is comparable, then him being maneuverable is a non-factor when Maki's dealt with a significantly wider speed gap before. Unless Tanjiro's showcased blitzing someone to an extent where he can blitz them from hundreds of meters away while they prepare for his attack in advance, I disagree with the amp being greater than the gap between Maki and Naoya speed-wise. I think at a certain point, maneuverability doesn't matter if the person is so fast that even being prepared for them doesn't matter at all.
Epyriel
He/Him- 1,550
- 1,700
Cursed Naoya didn’t build up anywhere near the same amount of speed when Maki countered him with her newly awakened Analytic Prediction, and she was in fact previously actually trying to follow him on foot. At that point it wasn’t even a blitz gap of a difference. Even Kamo was reacting to this normal speed earlier, and Maki was fighting him just fine prior to his retreat to buildup speed.
I think the fact Maki knew exactly where he was coming from (and in a straight line no less) and still couldn’t react meaningfully to Cursed Naoya’s full speed attack kind of implies the Analytic Prediction wouldn’t have helped.
By comparison if Tanjiro stacks the Demon Slayer Mark with Dancing Flash that is two blitz gaps worth of speed amps.
Being able to visualize your own pre-planned out movement is quite a bit different from a supernatural analysis for predicting the movement of others before they occur. As far as I’m aware neither Naobito nor Naoya have Analytic Prediction on their profiles.
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,666
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I think you're misremembering the fight cause this never happened. She didn't get her senses till after this and with them he never could land a hit on her.
Epyriel
He/Him- 1,550
- 1,700
I know she didn’t have Analytic Prediction when this happened, my point was that she knew where he was coming from and could guess where he would be (since he was going not so subtly in a straight line) but she just didn’t have the speed to make use of that fact.
Thus my point is that if she did have Analytic Prediction and knew more precisely where he was going to be it would not have helped (since the hard limiting factor here was raw speed, not foreknowledge).
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,666
- 13,288
She didn't gain better speed after her sumo training with Miyo, she only gained the senses. The whole point of the training was to bring her to Toji's level of senses not to gain better speed.
Epyriel
He/Him- 1,550
- 1,700
That’s my point.
The Analytic Prediction wouldn’t have stopped her from getting blitzed by Cursed Naoya’s full speed since she already knew where he was and where he was going but just didn’t have the speed to do anything about it.
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,666
- 13,288
But when she got the analytical prediction she was able to dodge him.
Epyriel
He/Him- 1,550
- 1,700
She dodged him at nowhere near his fully accelerated speed.
After Maki unlocked her Analytic Prediction her fight with Cursed Naoya involved him stopping and starting and weaving throughout the city. He never took the chance to retreat and take the time to buildup to full speed like he did earlier when he blitzed Maki. In fact at one point Maki was actually following him on foot at relative speed.
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,666
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Epyriel
He/Him- 1,550
- 1,700
We see Naoya slam into several buildings, stop, and turn several times before he is able to actually make a pass at Maki as she is leading him on a chase throughout the city by predicting his movements.
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,666
- 13,288
And?
Epyriel
He/Him- 1,550
- 1,700
He needs time (and uninterrupted acceleration) to buildup to full speed.
The first time it took the length of a full conversation of him accelerating in a straight line to reach Mach 3.
If he stops or slows down and swerves and then attacks someone a few meters away, clearly he isn’t doing that at full speed.
For comparison, this is what his full speed looks like:
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,666
- 13,288
And what I showed you was his full speed. What is the confusion?He needs time (and uninterrupted acceleration) to buildup to full speed.
The first time it took the length of a full conversation of him accelerating in a straight line to reach Mach 3.
If he stops or slows down and swerves and then attacks someone a few meters away, clearly he isn’t doing that at full speed.
For comparison, this is what his full speed looks like:
Epyriel
He/Him- 1,550
- 1,700
Epyriel
He/Him- 1,550
- 1,700
Can you please read what I’m writing in response?
Kamo says he is gaining speed, we then see him swerving and destroying a bunch of buildings trying to find and pin down Maki, then stops as he finally finds Maki, and then attacks her from a few meters away, which she dodges. He stops again, charges again, and gets counterattacked.
Of the two passes we actually see, neither were at full speed.
- 9,634
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Can someone summarize the best feats of each characters Analytical Prediction?
Fallen_Angelicx
He/Him- 4,327
- 1,071
This. Preferably with scans as well.
- 9,634
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Musashi solos
If its supposed to be skill, yeah.
High-effort jab aside, whose prediction is better decides the fight so determining whose AnaPre is better helps.
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Catbowtie
Any/All- 4,079
- 2,248
- Thread starter
- #63
For Maki, her best Analytical Prediction, in my opinion, comes from her being able to predict and dodge an attack that's blitzing her. Though, this is coming into debate about whether or not she actually predicted something that's blitzing her.
For Tanjiro, his best Analytical Prediction feat comes from being able to smell six individual limb movements and knowing where those limbs are going to move to dodge and counterattack.
It would be better if y'all read it instead. It's just a few posts.
For Tanjiro, his best Analytical Prediction feat comes from being able to smell six individual limb movements and knowing where those limbs are going to move to dodge and counterattack.
Epyriel
He/Him- 1,550
- 1,700
The scans for Maki have already been posted above, to summarize she was able to lead Cursed Naoya on a merry chase throughout a city despite being a blitz gap slower, and was able to dodge and counter him starting at close range (although not at his full speed) where she had previously struggled.
For Tanjiro his scent based precognition allowed him to actually fight evenly and land a crucial blow against the Yoriichi Type Zero despite the Type Zero previously blitzing him with ease. It was stated that this precognition was a weapon that essentially gave him movements “comparable to a Hashira’s” despite the weakest Hashira (base Muichiro) easily mopping the floor with him right before awakening this precognition.
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,666
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And you don't think the implication is that Naoya ended up reaching his full speed? Not referring to him swerving and stopping and charging again I am referring to specifically the two pages prior where we see Naoya go to gain distance and then next page he says "WHY?!" This is explicitly telling us even with his full speed he couldn't tag her. The entire point of her training with Miyo was to gain the something she was missing that Toji and Daido could see and apply that to countering Naoya's full speed. This is conveyed to us in the fight and I think you should reread it to understand this. If you still disagree then I have nothing to say other than you're being willfully ignorant.
Epyriel
He/Him- 1,550
- 1,700
Sure, he may have reached full speed but he never actually got the opportunity to make a pass at Maki at that speed. The whole point was that he was chasing her throughout the city to try and get a clear shot - but since Maki can now predict where he is going she can evade him fairly effectively.
It is why Cursed Naoya goes “!” when he stops when he finally finds Maki and gets the chance to make a pass at her - now nowhere near top speed when accelerating from only a few meters away.
There is just no proof he actually makes a pass at her off screen in the interlude. His dialogue even seems ro imply he couldn’t catch sight of her to do exactly that.
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Alright, let's see. The concept of AnaPre can be divided into 2 distinct parts; The means (How is the analytical part happening) and the result (What are the predictions based on the analysis). I mention this and the means for completionists sake, considering that neither of the character have dealt with or resisted Analytical Prediction to my knowledge (I am going off by what has been provided to me afterall), but its probably a neat topic to think about in later debates.
Both archieve their AnaPre via especially ehnaced senses, Tanjiro via his sense of smell and Maki via her great eyesight. Tanjiro edges on the fact that enhanced, combat-applicable senses of smells are inherently more impressive than eyesight, but Maki edges out to the extend in which her eyesight is enhanced. For those that work better with a metaphor, Tanjiro's senses have a higher floor but lower ceiling, while Maki's senses have a lower floor but higher ceiling. Ultimately, it is a small difference, to the point where it is meaningless. Neither is outskilling nor resisting each others AnaPre
Now to the important part, whose AnaPre is better? Lets go over the characteristics of each's AnaPre.
Both seem to run on the 1 step basis, that means that both are reading roughly 1 step ahead of their opponent (If not, provide scans for it please). Both have feats of predicting vastly faster opponents and both predict, thanks to their senses, more than just mere attacks. Maki edges out thanks to the depth of information (Maki simply perceives more), while Tanjiro would had edged out on the degree of difficulty (Tanjiro is predicting a more skilled opponent that is also in general harder to predict thanks to the additional limps) but it is counterbalanced by the fact that Maki predict a character that blitzes her, while Tanjiro is "only" vastly slower pre prediction.
Neither of these points establish a clear difference that would make a meaningful impact on the fight. As it stands, both AnaPre's are roughly equal, so AnaPre as a argument should not be the deceiding factor. Consider it getting cancelled out by each other.
Both archieve their AnaPre via especially ehnaced senses, Tanjiro via his sense of smell and Maki via her great eyesight. Tanjiro edges on the fact that enhanced, combat-applicable senses of smells are inherently more impressive than eyesight, but Maki edges out to the extend in which her eyesight is enhanced. For those that work better with a metaphor, Tanjiro's senses have a higher floor but lower ceiling, while Maki's senses have a lower floor but higher ceiling. Ultimately, it is a small difference, to the point where it is meaningless. Neither is outskilling nor resisting each others AnaPre
Now to the important part, whose AnaPre is better? Lets go over the characteristics of each's AnaPre.
Both seem to run on the 1 step basis, that means that both are reading roughly 1 step ahead of their opponent (If not, provide scans for it please). Both have feats of predicting vastly faster opponents and both predict, thanks to their senses, more than just mere attacks. Maki edges out thanks to the depth of information (Maki simply perceives more), while Tanjiro would had edged out on the degree of difficulty (Tanjiro is predicting a more skilled opponent that is also in general harder to predict thanks to the additional limps) but it is counterbalanced by the fact that Maki predict a character that blitzes her, while Tanjiro is "only" vastly slower pre prediction.
Neither of these points establish a clear difference that would make a meaningful impact on the fight. As it stands, both AnaPre's are roughly equal, so AnaPre as a argument should not be the deceiding factor. Consider it getting cancelled out by each other.
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Arkenis
They/Them- 25,666
- 13,288
It'd do best to read Maki's page or the scans for it but Maki's senses aren't just sight, its about feeling everything around and the distinctions between her senses are melted together to the point its like she can smell light and see sound. She feels everything around her about herself and her opponent.
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I did not see that, apologies. But are those additional senses used to predict attacks? Because the scan used to source her AnaPre specificly mentions that she does so via her special eyesight.
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Don't worry, offence is taken. Report is out.
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The problem is Maki explicitly states that if she had her senses, she would have been able to react quick enough to evade and kill Naoya when he was moving at his top speed:
So even if you wanted to argue Naoya didn't move at top speed during Maki's entire bout here, she implies her senses would've been capable of handling Naoya moving at that speed the entire time.
So again, unless Tanjiro's speed amp has feats comparable to blitzing a person who was preparing for their speed from hundreds of meters away like Maki did, I don't think it will be much of an issue at all. All I keep getting told is that it's a "blitz amp," with no feats to substantiate how much of a blitz amp. It being two blitz amps doesn't matter if I can't quantify the blitz in any fashion. If someone could link me the feats, that would help substantially.
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According to @Catbowtie, the mark isn't restricted. If Tanjiro goes mark mid fight then he'd blitz Maki due to Base Tanjiro being relative to the emotion demons.
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,666
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It's all melted together. These senses are whats allowing her to predict her opponents movements.
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Yeah, that's why I was bringing up Maki's analytical predictions. It enables her to evade and kill people through a bigger speed blitz than the one Tanjiro displays here.
Also, the people Tanjiro blitzed in that scene were able to react to his speed. The dude put his staff up to block, Tanjiro just cut right through it.
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