Star Wars Legends Cosmology Revision (Part 3:Star Forge and Dark Empire)

[LordVader30]

Epyriel and Lephyr hit the nail on the end for the dimensional tiering shenanigans... not to mention, saying someone hates a certain verse for not taking one of the most blatant hax-only feats I've ever read as 7-D AP is one of the dumbest things I've read participating in this hobby, and I've seen a MFer try to scale Deathwing to WoW Cosmology based off tosh and give Deathwing resistance to Dominating for a spell called "Dominate Undead" being unable to work on the elemental dragon he is.

The reason I said you hate Star Wars is something else, but this isn’t the place for it.

 

[LordVader30]

Confused about one thing, It's stated to destroy space overtime upon activation. Is this referring to real space or hyperspace? It's stated that force storms were hyperspace wormholes that connects two points in space.

There was something that directly states he damaged hyperspace, and I’m currently looking for it. I’ll get back to you soon, if I can find it.

 

[Grand_Astartes]

Alright, all of the accusations on both sides ie. the " you're trying to w word the verse" accusations and the " you hate SW" stuff is a bit juvenile. I'm personally neutral for now but see where Lephyr is coming from.

Edit: To clarify, I disagree with the use of "it is an outlier" as a counterargument, at least in the form it has been used in this thread so far. I just believe there needs to be a better argument for why it would qualify as a 1-C feat given the standard for being 1-C.

 

[DaReaperMan]

This isn’t even an outlier reason, LoL.And indeed, powerful individuals, even without needing to scale too high, Vader himself repeatedly dismisses the power of the Death Star. He even downplays the planet-destroying power, and there are many characters above Vader. Those who consider planet-busting as something significant are all normal people, which is quite natural, and this isn’t even an outlier reason.

Insert neither Emperor's Wrath nor Darth Nox being able to stop a good ol' Planet from collapsing on itself and considering it pretty ******* lethal to them here

Because MMOs are fun for shooting the competition's arguments in the foot... in fact, where's Vader's ACTUAL 5-B feat?

 

[Xavis10]

Bolded the part I don't see.
These scans are the ones that were posted in the hyperlinks provided. I do not see where this "underpinned" 7-D fabric of Hyperspace is present, it really just looks like Palpatine can twist space and create wormholes through hyperspace that affect realspace overtime. If somebody can provide a visual of where this fabric is supposd to be (and how the storm affects it), I'd appreciate it.

It's implicit, since Hyperspace isn't a separate plane of existence, the Spacetime continuum affected by the Force Storms should, indeed, affect it. Stuff related to Hyperspace is in Part 2 of this CRT, which was made by StoneKillerz12. This is the CRT.

 

[LordVader30]

Insert neither Emperor's Wrath nor Darth Nox being able to stop a good ol' Planet from collapsing on itself and considering it pretty ******* lethal to them here

Because MMOs are fun for shooting the competition's arguments in the foot... in fact, where's Vader's ACTUAL 5-B feat?

I didn’t even say Vader has a 5-B feat, Lmao. He just downplayed the Death Star, which is actually more impactful. He downplays it a few more times in the novel, but I couldn’t find those right now. Anyway,here are the panels.

Btw, you didn’t even provide a single piece of evidence for what you said, Lmao.

 

[Epyriel]

No, he's literally creating a 7D structure, which I already pointed out above. Furthermore, Luke survives within that 7D structure. So either you're mocking me, or you're making it a bit more obvious that you have a dislike for Star War

You saying something doesn’t make it true. Mockery isn’t required to disagree with you.

Shaping something within a higher dimension is not equivalent to creating an entirely new 7th dimensional space.
This is the difference between building a sandcastle within 3D space and creating an entire 3D universe.

There’s no need to completely consume hyperspace. It’s like causing damage to something without actually being on its level. For example, if Character A damages a 1-C character, even significantly, it doesn’t mean Character A is 1-C, which is a very flawed argument. The material I provided earlier clearly shows that Sidious damaged hyperspace and even created hyperspace wormholes. Nowhere does it say that Sidious created a small hole in hyperspace — there’s not even an implication of that, just a poor commentary.

To scale him to 1-C he needs to significantly affect, create, or destroy an infinite 7D universe.

Sidious’ hole was the size of a fleet. Do you think that in any way compares to the totality of Realspace, let alone Hyperspace?

I never said anything about Real Space. Everything I’ve mentioned has been related to Hyperspace, so I’m ignoring this.

That is because you read him destroying the fabric of “space” and instantly assumed it meant Hyperspace. Without something to back that up, this is an unjustified assumption.

And you haven’t provided any evidence for this, even though you said the same thing to me. Lol, whatever, still, this is an invalid argument because nothing like that is mentioned. 7D hyperspace wormholes are not outside of hyperspace, nor is hyperspace something separate. Sidious is the one who creates a 7D structure.

If it is a part of Hyperspace, then it is not an independent 7D structure.

I didn’t say you haven’t played or read it. I know many people who do the same thing and hate it. Playing or reading it doesn’t mean anything right now.

I assure you, I’m not spending thousands of hours consuming SW content because I hate the setting.

This isn’t even an outlier reason, LoL.And indeed, powerful individuals, even without needing to scale too high, Vader himself repeatedly dismisses the power of the Death Star. He even downplays the planet-destroying power, and there are many characters above Vader. Those who consider planet-busting as something significant are all normal people, which is quite natural, and this isn’t even an outlier reason.

Vader stated the Death Star was nothing compared to the Force itself, not his own power.
Powerful Force Users like Meetra Surik and the HOT despair at facing the power of Darth Nihilus and Darth Vitiate in reaction to mere Multi-Continental feats. Vader meanwhile continuously gets damaged by sub-City level explosions.

 

[Rutæhh]

Nope

It's unquantifiable under our current tiering system, albeit still higher dimensional.*

Edit: Though it definitely carries a measurable AP component, this being Sidious razing the surface of worlds with these energies. Which is why it should be rated "at least (whatever numerical value), possibly far higher"

could u elaborate on why please. I don't understand how the feat wouldnt be 1-C. being genuine

 

[HenshinIntervention]

because you read him destroying the fabric of “space” and instantly assumed it meant Hyperspace. Without something to back that up, this is an unjustified assumption.

There was something that directly states he damaged hyperspace, and I’m currently looking for it. I’ll get back to you soon, if I can find it.

If this is true than maybe 1-C is possible. Otherwise, all I'm reading is space-time hax

 

[Grand_Astartes]

Powerful Force Users like Meetra Surik and the HOT despair at facing the power of Darth Nihilus and Darth Vitiate in reaction to mere Multi-Continental feats. Vader meanwhile continuously gets damaged by sub-City level explosions.

I think we are getting a little bit off topic here. Save this for another thread.

To scale him to 1-C he needs to significantly affect, create, or destroy an infinite 7D universe.

This is my key problem with the 1-C rating, does the OP or supporters have any answer to this? The rest of the back and forth is pretty irrelevant.

 

[Epyriel]

Edit: To clarify, I disagree with the use of "it is an outlier" as a counterargument, at least in the form it has been used in this thread so far. I just believe there needs to be a better argument for why it would qualify as a 1-C feat given the standard for being 1-C.

To be clear, the outliers are more for the Revan scaling than for Palpatine (since Revan scales off of a great deal many more characters with a great deal more anti-feats).

For Palpatine it is just a matter of lack of evidence.

 

[LordVader30]

You saying something doesn’t make it true. Mockery isn’t required to disagree with you.

Shaping something within a higher dimension is not equivalent to creating an entirely new 7th dimensional space.
This is the difference between building a sandcastle within 3D space and creating an entire 3D universe.


To scale him to 1-C he needs to significantly affect, create, or destroy an infinite 7D universe.

Sidious’ hole was the size of a fleet. Do you think that in any way compares to the totality of Realspace, let alone Hyperspace?


That is because you read him destroying the fabric of “space” and instantly assumed it meant Hyperspace. Without something to back that up, this is an unjustified assumption.


If it is a part of Hyperspace, then it is not an independent 7D structure.


I assure you, I’m not spending thousands of hours consuming SW content because I hate the setting.


Vader stated the Death Star was nothing compared to the Force itself, not his own power.
Powerful Force Users like Meetra Surik and the HOT despair at facing the power of Darth Nihilus and Darth Vitiate in reaction to mere Multi-Continental feats. Vader meanwhile continuously gets damaged by sub-City level explosions.

I won’t respond to each message individually because it takes too long.

1. Hyperspace wormholes are, by themselves, at least 6D structures—that’s the whole point. I’m not calling you sarcastic just because you don’t agree with me; I’m saying it because you’re denying something that’s objectively true, and the situation clearly shows that.

2. Yes, Sidious already created a structure that’s 7D, and even affected it significantly. Hyperspace wormholes, as far as I remember, are 7D structures. There was a panel directly stating that he caused significant damage to Hyperspace itself. I’m currently looking for it and will share it soon.

3. For what you wrote, I’ll say the same thing as I did in point 2—I’ll share the panel once I find it.

4. For what you wrote here, I don’t even understand what it’s supposed to prove. Sidious creates the Hyperspace wormholes himself, and these are already accepted in previous CRTs as being connected to Hyperspace. What’s called a Hyperspace wormhole is literally a Hyperspace lane—Sidious just uses them for destruction. The difference is, Sidious creates them himself; this has nothing to do with simply manipulating something.

And again, even if you’ve spent thousands or millions of hours on this, it doesn't matter right now because it’s irrelevant to the actual topic.

Vader never said the Death Star’s power wasn’t his own or anything like that. In fact, the Death Star doesn’t affect Vader in any way. I’ve already shared the panel above, but I don’t want to continue this point because I don’t want the CRT to go off-topic into something irrelevant.

 

[OTG0001]

He wasn't affecting the entirety of space, because all he did was create wormholes. He affected a small part of Hyperspace to connect two points in Realspace. Impressive, and higher dimensional to boot, but not tierable as 1-C.

Oh but he was, and I believe this should fall under significantly affecting, let's provide a few more statements:

Force Storms are dimension-altering and they violate the laws of nature:

The definition of spatial manipulation is as follows:

• Spatial Manipulation is the ability to warp, bend, flip, crush, and control space. The ability only refers to one's ability to manipulate an area, not to defy its laws, so gravity, friction, and many other rules may still apply. Sometimes, the user cannot affect people or objects, but they fold space onto itself, making the object take 2 different places at once. Some users are limited to a specific location or type of space, others are only restricted to their imagination.

It would be pretty disingenuous to assume that this is just mere spatial manipulation with these, since a violation of the laws of the nature is the same as defying it as said in this definition, and not only that, it alters the dimension as a whole, which is the intent here, otherwise they wouldn't go out of their way to say it "twists the space time continuum" or "it shatters the fabric of space"; they are referring to space holistically here, and not talking about a mere portion being affected - they would be quite explicit in the text if that was the intent. Also, pay attention to "shattering" - as shattering is typically a much more violent event than simply tearing a hole in something.

 

[Epyriel]

I won’t respond to each message individually because it takes too long.

1. Hyperspace wormholes are, by themselves, at least 6D structures—that’s the whole point. I’m not calling you sarcastic just because you don’t agree with me; I’m saying it because you’re denying something that’s objectively true, and the situation clearly shows that.

2. Yes, Sidious already created a structure that’s 7D, and even affected it significantly. Hyperspace wormholes, as far as I remember, are 7D structures. There was a panel directly stating that he caused significant damage to Hyperspace itself. I’m currently looking for it and will share it soon.

3. For what you wrote, I’ll say the same thing as I did in point 2—I’ll share the panel once I find it.

4. For what you wrote here, I don’t even understand what it’s supposed to prove. Sidious creates the Hyperspace wormholes himself, and these are already accepted in previous CRTs as being connected to Hyperspace. What’s called a Hyperspace wormhole is literally a Hyperspace lane—Sidious just uses them for destruction. The difference is, Sidious creates them himself; this has nothing to do with simply manipulating something.

There is a difference between a 7D universe (what I am referring to as an independent 7D structure here) and some smaller random 7D element of a far larger 7D plane of existence.

Kicking over a sandcastle in 7 dimensions doesn’t make you 1-C any more than kicking over a sandcastle in 3 dimensions makes you High 3-A.

 

[OTG0001]

To scale him to 1-C he needs to significantly affect, create, or destroy an infinite 7D universe.

Sidious’ hole was the size of a fleet. Do you think that in any way compares to the totality of Realspace, let alone Hyperspace?

This is not true, sure the end of the force storm, the part that bursts into space is the size of a fleet, but force storms in general have to be larger than the visible portion, especially considering the Da Soocha storm is stronger than the Coruscant one - which went all the way from Coruscant to Byss through hyperspace.

 

[OTG0001]

If this is true than maybe 1-C is possible. Otherwise, all I'm reading is space-time hax

Creating wormholes in hyperspace is already "damaging" it

 

[Epyriel]

Oh but he was, and I believe this should fall under significantly affecting, let's provide a few more statements:

Force Storms are dimension-altering and they violate the laws of nature:

The definition of spatial manipulation is as follows:

• Spatial Manipulation is the ability to warp, bend, flip, crush, and control space. The ability only refers to one's ability to manipulate an area, not to defy its laws, so gravity, friction, and many other rules may still apply. Sometimes, the user cannot affect people or objects, but they fold space onto itself, making the object take 2 different places at once. Some users are limited to a specific location or type of space, others are only restricted to their imagination.

It would be pretty disingenuous to assume that this is just mere spatial manipulation with these, since a violation of the laws of the nature is the same as defying it as said in this definition, and not only that, it alters the dimension as a whole, which is the intent here, otherwise they wouldn't go out of their way to say it "twists the space time continuum" or "it shatters the fabric of space"; they are referring to space holistically here, and not talking about a mere portion being affected - they would be quite explicit in the text if that was the intent. Also, pay attention to "shattering" - as shattering is typically a much more violent event than simply tearing a hole in something.

Force Storms can displace people in both space and time (which is what that quote is referring to as dimension-altering).

This can count as poorly controlled Time and Space Manipulation, but ultimately these effects remain in Realspace. It is not affecting Hyperspace itself to any noticeable degree.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Oh but he was, and I believe this should fall under significantly affecting, let's provide a few more statements:

Force Storms are dimension-altering and they violate the laws of nature:

The definition of spatial manipulation is as follows:

• Spatial Manipulation is the ability to warp, bend, flip, crush, and control space. The ability only refers to one's ability to manipulate an area, not to defy its laws, so gravity, friction, and many other rules may still apply. Sometimes, the user cannot affect people or objects, but they fold space onto itself, making the object take 2 different places at once. Some users are limited to a specific location or type of space, others are only restricted to their imagination.

It would be pretty disingenuous to assume that this is just mere spatial manipulation with these, since a violation of the laws of the nature is the same as defying it as said in this definition, and not only that, it alters the dimension as a whole, which is the intent here, otherwise they wouldn't go out of their way to say it "twists the space time continuum" or "it shatters the fabric of space"; they are referring to space holistically here, and not talking about a mere portion being affected - they would be quite explicit in the text if that was the intent. Also, pay attention to "shattering" - as shattering is typically a much more violent event than simply tearing a hole in something.

The problem is

Is not affecting the entirety of Hyperspace. It's dimension-altering, sure. It's "rendering space-time", sure (this in-context is referring to its ability to create the wormholes and connect two spaces).

But it's not affecting all of Hyperspace. This feat is what would be tiered as 1-C.

 

[LordVader30]

I think we are getting a little bit off topic here. Save this for another thread.


This is my key problem with the 1-C rating, does the OP or supporters have any answer to this? The rest of the back and forth is pretty irrelevant.

I can present the following for this:

It’s mentioned that Hyperspace has dimensions greater than at least 3+1, and since the Hyperspace lane Vader is looking at is a Hyperspace wormhole, and considering that what Sidious creates is also a Hyperspace wormhole, yes, this would prove that. Based on the same evidence, we’ve already referred to Hyperspace as being 7D. Sidious is creating something that is 7D, and when considering that he’s connecting two points in space, this alone should be infinite. Since Sidious creates these himself, it should simply be 7D.

Evidence

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Creating wormholes in hyperspace is already "damaging" it

Only a small part of it (two specific points that are then connected), which is precisely why it wouldn't scale to 1-C.

Genuinely, we are going in circles now. Just wait for further staff.

 

[OTG0001]

Force Storms can displace people in both space and time (which is what that quote is referring to as dimension-altering).

This can count as poorly controlled Time and Space Manipulation, but ultimately these effects remain in Realspace. It is not affecting Hyperspace itself to any noticeable degree.

That is definitely not what it is referring to, displacement/teleportation through ripping a hole in space is not "dimension altering", which is in a holistic sense, as the other statements also hint at it affecting the literal structure itself.

The problem is

Is not affecting the entirety of Hyperspace. It's dimension-altering, sure. It's "rendering space-time", sure (this in-context is referring to its ability to create the wormholes and connect two spaces).

But it's not affecting all of Hyperspace. This feat is what would be tiered as 1-C.

Let's not gloss over the other statement which definitely cements it as not just spatial manipulation, since spatial manipulation is still subject to various laws as per the definition, Force Storms are described to violate these.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Let's not gloss over the other statement which definitely cements it as not just spatial manipulation, since spatial manipulation is still subject to various laws, Force Storms are described to violate these.

Doesn't matter. I'm not trying to be reductive, it's genuinely a very good power and strong as hell feat. It's just not currently tierable under our system beyond the physical effects it shows on Realspace (razing worlds)

 

[Epyriel]

That is definitely not what it is referring to, displacement/teleportation through ripping a hole in space is not "dimension altering", which is in a holistic sense, as the other statements also hint at it affecting the literal structure itself.

Yes it is, punching a hole through time and space is about as dimension altering as it gets.

Let's not gloss over the other statement which definitely cements it as not just spatial manipulation, since spatial manipulation is still subject to various laws as per the definition, Force Storms are described to violate these.

That quote was from the Jedi’s moralistic view of what counts as natural usage of the Force. Natural laws was in the context of morality, not physics. You are reading way too much into this.

 

[Xavis10]

Doesn't matter. I'm not trying to be reductive, it's genuinely a very good power and strong as hell feat. It's just not currently tierable under our system beyond the physical effects it shows on Realspace (razing worlds)

Don’t interpret this as provoking you, that’s not my intention at all, it’s just that I, genuinely, don’t understand - how is it not tierable if it affects all of Hyperspace? OTG put it very well, violating the laws of nature of a dimension/continuum, does affect all of it, since those laws govern the entire structure in question.

 

[HenshinIntervention]

Yes it is, punching a hole through time and space is about as dimension altering as it gets.


That quote was from the Jedi’s moralistic view of what counts as natural usage of the Force. Natural laws was in the context of morality, not physics. You are reading way too much into this.

Do you have anything that clearly implies this? "laws of nature" usually corresponds to how the Universe works.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

if it affects all of Hyperspace?

Because it's not. We know in-context what it actually is doing, and it's the connection of two points in space. It achieves this through twisting the dimensional energy of hyperspace, which violates laws or whatever. But it isn't affecting the entire structure, because if it did, there wouldn't be points to connect in the first place. It wouldn't be wormholes, but a universal storm messing up all of Realspace. Since this isn't what it's doing, we know it isn't affecting all of Hyperspace.

 

[OTG0001]

Doesn't matter. I'm not trying to be reductive, it's genuinely a very good power and strong as hell feat. It's just not currently tierable under our system beyond the physical effects it shows on Realspace (razing worlds)

It doesn't matter? JUST Spatial Manipulation would not account for the violation of laws, as the definition states, it is still subject to them. Again, let's actually read what the stuff says and not dismiss things that point to this actually being much greater than what you're reducing it to.

Violating the laws that the universe(s) abide by is definitely a significant effect spanning the entirety of the dimension(s), which correlates with it being dimension altering, and "unnatural" (can't find this but i'm sure it exists)

 

[Epyriel]

Do you have anything that clearly implies this? "laws of nature" usually corresponds to how the Universe works.

The quote comes from the Dark Empire Sourcebook for the Star Wars Roleplaying Game. It is literally an in-game ability description that is explaining that you are getting a Dark Side point on their morality scale for using an ability that is such an offence to nature.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Violating the laws that the universe(s) abide by is definitely a significant effect spanning the entirety of the dimension(s), which correlates with it being dimension altering, and "unnatural" (can't find this but i'm sure it exists)

Unfortunately, no. Since the effects we actually see are of a limited scale, we can't assume otherwise.

 

[HenshinIntervention]

The quote comes from the Dark Empire Sourcebook for the Star Wars Roleplaying Game. It is literally an in-game ability description that is explaining that you are getting a Dark Side point on their morality scale for using an ability that is such an offence to nature.

I understand that, but the "Laws of Nature" are stuff like Newton's laws. The wormhole's destructive nature technically does have the potential to violate such laws.

 

[Xavis10]

I understand that, but the "Laws of Nature" are stuff like Newton's laws. The wormhole's destructive nature technically does have the potential to violate such laws.

It’s an off-verse statement. This sounds weird to say, but “it wasn’t a Jedi who said that”, so it very much does refer to the laws of nature as we define them. Well, in my view at least.

 

[Epyriel]

I understand that, but the "Laws of Nature" are stuff like Newton's laws. The wormhole's destructive nature technically does have the potential to violate such laws.

Considering the entire quote is for a warning of the Dark Side point gain repercussion as a consequence of the use of this ability, seems more likely to said in the moral sense of the term.

Even if it was talking about in the physics sense of the word, that is such a vague description to the point it doesn’t really help you scale it anywhere. Breaking time and space sure breaks some laws of physics, but that just brings you back to uncontrolled time and space manipulation rather than 1-C tiering.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

It’s an off-verse statement. This sounds weird to say, but “it wasn’t a Jedi who said that”, so it very much does refer to the laws of nature as we define them. Well, in my view at least.

Actually, those sourcebook are written from the perspective of in-universe characters

 

[OTG0001]

Yes it is, punching a hole through time and space is about as dimension altering as it gets.


That quote was from the Jedi’s moralistic view of what counts as natural usage of the Force. Natural laws was in the context of morality, not physics. You are reading way too much into this.

I don't have a contention to this now, i'll circle back to it when I do think of one.

The quote comes from the Dark Empire Sourcebook for the Star Wars Roleplaying Game. It is literally an in-game ability description that is explaining that you are getting a Dark Side point on their morality scale for using an ability that is such an offence to nature.

There are no "natural laws" in morality, at least that i'm aware of, sure it can gain dark side points - it's literally a dark side ability, but there is absolutely zero correlation between your alignment and the laws of nature which in pretty much any scenario is referring to the physical laws.

 

[Epyriel]

There are no "natural laws" in morality, at least that i'm aware of, sure it can gain dark side points - it's literally a dark side ability, but there is absolutely zero correlation between your alignment and the laws of nature which in pretty much any scenario is referring to the physical laws.

The Jedi in general believe enslaving the Force to your will to be a violation of the natural order. Such can very much have moral connotations.

Yet irregardless, even if it is meant in the sense of breaking the laws of physics, such would be an accurate descriptor regardless of whether or not it affects Hyperspace at large.

 

[OTG0001]

Considering the entire quote is for a warning of the Dark Side point gain repercussion as a consequence of the use of this ability, seems more likely to said in the moral sense of the term.

Even if it was talking about in the physics sense of the word, that is such a vague description to the point it doesn’t really help you scale it anywhere. Breaking time and space sure breaks some laws of physics, but that just brings you back to uncontrolled time and space manipulation rather than 1-C tiering.

Do note that the statement is not just "affecting" the laws, but rather directly violating it, which is a significant effect, you can't really reduce it to just breaking time and space (which, in of itself, would qualify, as it's violating the governing principles of time and space, which is greater than ripping holes in time and space), which is not what the scan says, it's a violation, it goes against the law itself - not just breaking it. Also i'm pretty sure the laws of nature are more than time and space, but maybe i'm tweaking on that one.

 

[OTG0001]

The Jedi in general believe enslaving the Force to your will to be a violation of the natural order. Such can very much have moral connotations.

Yet irregardless, even if it is meant in the sense of breaking the laws of physics, such would be an accurate descriptor regardless of whether or not it affects Hyperspace at large.

The point is that the laws of nature don't exist in morality, it isn't a moral concept (that isn't already connected to the physics - related ones) also the moral connotation of a violation isn't representative of the violation in of itself, it's just a byproduct of what the violation entails, not the violation itself. The "natural order" isn't the governing laws of nature, at least that I know of. In fact it's probably what is set in place by said laws.

 

[LordVader30]

Here is the evidence regarding Force Storms damaging Hyperspace:

Force Storms are described as rifts in both realspace and Hyperspace. One of the statements says that if left uncontrolled, they will destroy everything in their path—which, since the text emphasizes Hyperspace, is clearly a reference to Hyperspace again. They are defined as Hyperspace distortions and Hyperspace tears, and they threaten the very fabric of all space and time. Since Hyperspace is explicitly highlighted in the same text, it must be connected to Hyperspace again.

In any case, with the sources I’ve provided earlier, Sidious should easily be 1-C, because he significantly affected Hyperspace—and that’s not even counting the fact that he creates Hyperspace wormholes, which are already 1-C.

Here’s the evidence.

Normally, wikis aren't accepted as valid sources, but since they were used in the previous CRT and even in the Star Wars profile itself, I’ll use them as additional evidence. It once again states that Hyperspace and Realspace have been distorted.

 

[Epyriel]

Do note that the statement is not just "affecting" the laws, but rather directly violating it, which is a significant effect, you can't really reduce it to just breaking time and space (which, in of itself, would qualify, as it's violating the governing principles of time and space, which is greater than ripping holes in time and space), which is not what the scan says, it's a violation, it goes against the law itself - not just breaking it. Also i'm pretty sure the laws of nature are more than time and space, but maybe i'm tweaking on that one.

?
Breaking time and space is a violation of the laws of physics. I’m not sure what the basis for it requiring to break every law of physics would be.

The point is that the laws of nature don't exist in morality, it isn't a moral concept (that isn't already connected to the physics - related ones) also the moral connotation of a violation isn't representative of the violation in of itself, it's just a byproduct of what the violation entails, not the violation itself. The "natural order" isn't the governing laws of nature, at least that I know of. In fact it's probably what is set in place by said laws.

There is an entire field of ethics literally called ‘Natural Law’.

 

[Epyriel]

Here is the evidence regarding Force Storms damaging Hyperspace:

Force Storms are described as rifts in both realspace and Hyperspace. One of the statements says that if left uncontrolled, they will destroy everything in their path—which, since the text emphasizes Hyperspace, is clearly a reference to Hyperspace again.

That is a stretch.
There is little reason to think this implies an uncontrolled Force Storm would destroy Hyperspace itself. Especially considering the Dark Empire Sourcebook states an uncontrolled Force Storm will dissipate in a few minutes.

They are defined as Hyperspace distortions and Hyperspace tears, and they threaten the very fabric of all space and time. Since Hyperspace is explicitly highlighted in the same text, it must be connected to Hyperspace again.

Space and time are not Hyperspace.

In any case, with the sources I’ve provided earlier, Sidious should easily be 1-C, because he significantly affected Hyperspace—and that’s not even counting the fact that he creates Hyperspace wormholes, which are already 1-C.

Here’s the evidence.

Normally, wikis aren't accepted as valid sources, but since they were used in the previous CRT and even in the Star Wars profile itself, I’ll use them as additional evidence. It once again states that hyperspace and realspace collided.

Creating a tunnel in Hyperspace is not the same as “significantly affecting” an entire higher dimensional universe.