How to calculate the mass of an object that breaks rock?

[CNBA3]

This maybe a silly question to ask, but can you get the mass of an object when you get an idea of what it can do? For example breaking rock, that the sheer mass is what breaks rock? And the object in question is a suit of armor with the area being a fist.

From what I found you can find the Force first and then the mass through Acceleration (9.8 m/s^2)

For the mineral, it will be granite tensile strength (7.7 MPa)

And the area will be .043 m^2 (fist area)

This would give 331100 Newtons

And for the mass, dividing by the Acceleration it would give 33750 kg

Thoughts?


EDIT: To clarify it is for Lifting Strength.

 

[Executor_N0]

The general idea would just be to equate the mechanical energy from the object to the energy needed to break the rock. It's something that has been done a few times in the past, but the Wiki's rules for Kinetic Energy Feats forbid this from being done. Quoting it:

• Do not calculate speed from kinetic energy: The kinetic energy an object was calculated to possess, in any way whatsoever, should not be considered as related through its speed. While the formula technically can be used to relate those values in both direction this is disregarded in practice. One reason for this is that fiction in general differentiates between the attack potency and the speed of a character. Another reason is that it returns unrealistic values, as even a Small City level+ punch would already have Relativistic+ speed. Out of similar reasons mass should also not be calculated from it.

This is about speed, but it's part of the equation just as mass. Basically, we can't use that data to make any statements about other physical elements of the event other than the final amount of energy generated.

 

[CNBA3]

The general idea would just be to equate the mechanical energy from the object to the energy needed to break the rock. It's something that has been done a few times in the past, but the Wiki's rules for Kinetic Energy Feats forbid this from being done. Quoting it:

This is about speed, but it's part of the equation just as mass. Basically, we can't use that data to make any statements about other physical elements of the event other than the final amount of energy generated.

Okay, thanks for the info for this site, to clarify, I was using this for Lifting Strength calculation of the object that broke rock, like how a wooden table has a maximum weight capacity.

 

[CNBA3]

Bump

 

[Executor_N0]

Okay, thanks for the info for this site, to clarify, I was using this for Lifting Strength calculation of the object that broke rock, like how a wooden table has a maximum weight capacity.

As I said, the problem isn't the type of energy in question, but the method. Just like we can't derive the speed from kinetic energy, we can't derive the mass. Our methods only accept getting energy values as far as I know. You would need to use the same calculations to get the mass, the difference really just is that instead of getting speed (In cases of kinetic ) or gravity (In case of gravitational potential energy), you are getting the mass.

 

[Kachon123]

As I said, the problem isn't the type of energy in question, but the method. Just like we can't derive the speed from kinetic energy, we can't derive the mass. Our methods only accept getting energy values as far as I know. You would need to use the same calculations to get the mass, the difference really just is that instead of getting speed (In cases of kinetic ) or gravity (In case of gravitational potential energy), you are getting the mass.

I believe CNBA3 is asking how to find the mass of an object if in a resting position it's so heavy that the ground under it deforms/fragments.

 

[CNBA3]

I believe CNBA3 is asking how to find the mass of an object if in a resting position it's so heavy that the ground under it deforms/fragments.

Right. As in the sheer weight.

 

[Executor_N0]

I believe CNBA3 is asking how to find the mass of an object if in a resting position it's so heavy that the ground under it deforms/fragments.

As I said, to do that you would need to measure the energy or force needed to cause the damage, and then use the calculations using that energy to find the mass needed to cause that damage knowing the other variables.

Like, if you have a wooden table and you throw a large rock into it that slices the table in two.

You'll use a site like this one to find the strength of the wood depending on the type of force applied (Shear, compressive, etc) and find the amount of strength needed to perform that feat

Then you'll use that strength value, and knowing the other properties around the rock, you'll just keep the mass as the unknown value and do the calculations for it in reverse. Like if the rock is being thrown at fast speeds and hits at high speed, you could use kinetic energy or impact and just equal it to the energy if you happen to know the speed. If it was more like dropping from a height at rest, use gravitational potential energy, etc.

The methods will depend on the type of damage that was being done.

But as I said, you can't use the force or energy results of a destruction feat to find the other properties of what caused the damage, as it goes against the rules due to it commonly creating inflated results.

 

[CNBA3]

As I said, to do that you would need to measure the energy or force needed to cause the damage, and then use the calculations using that energy to find the mass needed to cause that damage knowing the other variables.

Like, if you have a wooden table and you throw a large rock into it that slices the table in two.

You'll use a site like this one to find the strength of the wood depending on the type of force applied (Shear, compressive, etc) and find the amount of strength needed to perform that feat

Then you'll use that strength value, and knowing the other properties around the rock, you'll just keep the mass as the unknown value and do the calculations for it in reverse. Like if the rock is being thrown at fast speeds and hits at high speed, you could use kinetic energy or impact and just equal it to the energy if you happen to know the speed. If it was more like dropping from a height at rest, use gravitational potential energy, etc.

The methods will depend on the type of damage that was being done.

But as I said, you can't use the force or energy results of a destruction feat to find the other properties of what caused the damage, as it goes against the rules due to it commonly creating inflated results.

Okay, thank you for the clarification. Sorry for the reply.

 

[IDK3465]

As I said, to do that you would need to measure the energy or force needed to cause the damage, and then use the calculations using that energy to find the mass needed to cause that damage knowing the other variables.

Like, if you have a wooden table and you throw a large rock into it that slices the table in two.

You'll use a site like this one to find the strength of the wood depending on the type of force applied (Shear, compressive, etc) and find the amount of strength needed to perform that feat

Then you'll use that strength value, and knowing the other properties around the rock, you'll just keep the mass as the unknown value and do the calculations for it in reverse. Like if the rock is being thrown at fast speeds and hits at high speed, you could use kinetic energy or impact and just equal it to the energy if you happen to know the speed. If it was more like dropping from a height at rest, use gravitational potential energy, etc.

The methods will depend on the type of damage that was being done.

But as I said, you can't use the force or energy results of a destruction feat to find the other properties of what caused the damage, as it goes against the rules due to it commonly creating inflated results.

Weirdly, this accepted calc that’s linked in several profiles actually goes against that rule, so it’s weird that it didn’t get removed and replaced.

 

[Executor_N0]

Weirdly, this accepted calc that’s linked in several profiles actually goes against that rule, so it’s weird that it didn’t get removed and replaced.

Never seen it before, and it seems to be from 2017, not sure if it was made when that concept existed. But if it's accepted yet, then just follow what I said previously, just need to calc the energy needed to destroy something and use either potential energy to find the mass.

 

[CNBA3]

Thank you guys for your response, (And it looks like the calc is still used on Knuckle's Sonic Boom page) so I did a quick calc for first finding the destruction.

This time I am using the fragmentation of stone 8 j/cc.

With the area applied (this time with two feet 0.04514 m^2), and using a depth of 1 inch for low end. I get a volume of .001146556 m^3.

multiplying the two I get a damage of 9172.45 Joules.

Then applying that to the Potential Energy Calculator with the height being 1 inch via how much a person in the armor would break stone, I would get a mass of amount 37 tons or 33565.8 kg

So it seems the two methods are roughly the same and in the same stat range.