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[STAFF NEEDED] Reinstating Sailor Moon Conceptual Manipulation and Information Manipulation standing

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Reiner04 said:
I removed garrixian and ByAsura from neutral as they were bolded out (they are no longer staff) and OP mentioned that he was waiting for their input as they have asked for more clarification (but they have left wiki)
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Makes sense.

May I ask if you can ping active thread moderators or admins? This thread needs further evaluation and hardly any staff has looked at this thread in months. It would be appreciated 👍
 
HenshinIntervention said:
Since Mods have been pinged to this thread, I decided to make a brief Summary since @Iamunanimousinthat is unavailable right now and they can use a Summary of the CRT and the discussion so far. Before reading this I advise reading the brief introduction on the OP regarding some disclaimers on Inverse terminology.

Summary Of Arguments
  • Star Seeds are fundamental, metaphysical entities that encompass all aspects of the entity it represents (Ex: Everything about a Sailor Guardian, from their powers to the Planet, Mind, Soul, Body and the Ideals/Abstractions they are the incarnation of are included) This is explained on the OP. This would include things like: Love, Beauty, Space-Time, Death, Destruction etc. Sailor Guardians are Reincarnations of the Deities that embody/created these concepts, so it's not just a baseless announcement of their beliefs.

  • Star Seeds encompass all sizes, forms/shapes and names (see OP for scan) and the Perfect Forms of everything in the Verse are located inside the Galaxy Cauldron, which created all Star Seeds. The Kanji used for "Perfect Form" when referring to "Form" has the same definition as the one used for the one describing Star Seeds encompassing all sizes, names and forms --> So all things in Sailor Moon have Perfect Star Forms.

  • Beings that are formless, shapeless, have no "size", are Nonexistent and are Darkness also have Star Seeds pertaining to them. This means Star Seeds also encompass all things that lack form, shape, size etc. It should also be noted that Star Seeds encompass everything in a sort of dualistic fashion.

  • Star Seeds fit the bill for all the rest of the Type 1 Concept Manipulation requirements, such as being Independent. (see OP)

  • When you manipulate a Star Seed, you can change or add things to the entity it represents, all you need is their Star Seed. This is pretty clear-cut an example of Information Manipulation Type 2 (see OP for more details)

There is some contention regarding one argument for Star Seeds being Independent Concepts that involves Mamoru's Star Seed erasure which I explained here:

Note: This doesn't debunk the other argument that indicates that Star Seeds are Independent Concepts, which can be found in the OP yet again.

End (Bottom is my opinion)

If you ask me, most of the other arguments against this boil down to "I don't think it's conceptual" with essentially no good reason to believe otherwise. People often posit this as being "vague" while ignoring clear storytelling details and allusions to stuff like Plato's Forms. Just because it doesn't say to your face that it's a concept, doesn't mean it's not a concept. Since Star Seeds are clearly not Souls or some other metaphysical entity, are fundamental and have an all encompassing range of Forms, entities, Names etc they can only really be indexed as Concepts.

That's All.
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I'll bring up this summary I made a while ago for the mods pinged
 
Unsure, Conceptual Manipulation isn't my specialty, and there is a staff member disagreement. What's the reason for Reiner agreeing or Glassman disagreeing as seen in the OP?
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Unsure, Conceptual Manipulation isn't my specialty, and there is a staff member disagreement. What's the reason for Reiner agreeing or Glassman disagreeing as seen in the OP?
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As far as I understand Glassman disagrees because Star Seeds have no direct statement of being named as concept and information. Reiner agreed with the Conceptual Manipulation and Information Manipulation, after being given more context, from OP after asking for clarification to a doubt.

Edit: The clarification that Reiner asked for was given by Henshin. Not by OP, my mistake.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Unsure, Conceptual Manipulation isn't my specialty, and there is a staff member disagreement. What's the reason for Reiner agreeing or Glassman disagreeing as seen in the OP?
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What Aster said but also: In the previous thread where the hax was removed, Glassman did not follow the site standards outlined in the Metaphysical Aspect page and left the Star Seeds as is. Basically, the site standards are that if some "Metaphysical Aspect" in a franchise are explicitly not something like mind, body or soul than what is done is that we equalize this unique aspect to one of the indexed haxes on the site (conceptual manipulation and info type 2 are two of them) that it's the most similar to even if it's not exactly one to one.
The Star Seeds are these "metaphysical aspects" that govern the Verse and are not mind, body or soul. I outlined that when explaining to Reiner. The OP goes into why Star Seeds fit the standards for Conceptual Manipulation and Information Manipulation (Type 2)

If I'm not mistaken, Reiner agreed on this basis that Star Seeds can be equalized as Type 1 Concepts and Type 2 Fundamental Information. They were unsure about Information Manipulation but I explained to them a few posts ago why it still fits if you're also unsure.
 
HenshinIntervention said:
What Aster said but also: In the previous thread where the hax was removed, Glassman did not follow the site standards outlined in the Metaphysical Aspect page and left the Star Seeds as is. Basically, the site standards are that if some "Metaphysical Aspect" in a franchise are explicitly not something like mind, body or soul than what is done is that we equalize this unique aspect to one of the indexed haxes on the site (conceptual manipulation and info type 2 are two of them) that it's the most similar to even if it's not exactly one to one.
The Star Seeds are these "metaphysical aspects" that govern the Verse and are not mind, body or soul. I outlined that when explaining to Reiner. The OP goes into why Star Seeds fit the standards for Conceptual Manipulation and Information Manipulation (Type 2)

If I'm not mistaken, Reiner agreed on this basis that Star Seeds can be equalized as Type 1 Concepts and Type 2 Fundamental Information. They were unsure about Information Manipulation but I explained to them a few posts ago why it still fits if you're also unsure.
Click to expand...
Bump
 
HenshinIntervention said:
What Aster said but also: In the previous thread where the hax was removed, Glassman did not follow the site standards outlined in the Metaphysical Aspect page and left the Star Seeds as is. Basically, the site standards are that if some "Metaphysical Aspect" in a franchise are explicitly not something like mind, body or soul than what is done is that we equalize this unique aspect to one of the indexed haxes on the site (conceptual manipulation and info type 2 are two of them) that it's the most similar to even if it's not exactly one to one.
The Star Seeds are these "metaphysical aspects" that govern the Verse and are not mind, body or soul. I outlined that when explaining to Reiner. The OP goes into why Star Seeds fit the standards for Conceptual Manipulation and Information Manipulation (Type 2)

If I'm not mistaken, Reiner agreed on this basis that Star Seeds can be equalized as Type 1 Concepts and Type 2 Fundamental Information. They were unsure about Information Manipulation but I explained to them a few posts ago why it still fits if you're also unsure.
Click to expand...
Bump
 
Since Reiner has already agreed with the Conceptual Manipulation and Information Manipulation, we only need two more staff members to approve the thread, right?
 
Bump


Pardon my attitude, but I want to point out something.
This exact topic got the attention of several mods and was concluded in 2 days in a previous thread 2 months earlier. But the same topic on the affirmative with new scans and argumentation gets almost 200 messages in the spam of 5 months with several mods pinged three separate times and we still are at a dead end.
 
HenshinIntervention said:
Bump


Pardon my attitude, but I want to point out something.
This exact topic got the attention of several mods and was concluded in 2 days in a previous thread 2 months earlier. But the same topic on the affirmative with new scans and argumentation gets almost 200 messages in the spam of 5 months with several mods pinged three separate times and we still are at a dead end.
Click to expand...
If this thread had been done by someone on staff, it is likely that like the previous degradation thread, it would have been approved without problems.
 
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