Askin minor revision

[Adam1396]

Askin Nakk Le Vaar

Askin Nakk Le Vaar (アスキン・ナックルヴァール, Asukin Nakkuruvāru?) is a Quincy and a member of the Wandenreich's Sternritter with the designation "D" - "The Deathdealing", as well as one of Yhwach's Schutzstaffel (親衛隊シュッツシュタッフェル, Shuttsushutafferu?) German for "Protective Echelon", Japanese for...

vsbattles.fandom.com

In Askin's profile his Gift Bereich has sealing since it's inescapable. But it mentions people with dimensional travel can enter or exit which is incorrect.

Urahara agrees with inescapable part and explicitely mentions he needed to open a path for grimjow despite having DT.
As a side not he also uses the word "infiltration". Which means forcing through by physical process to get in.

So it should be Sealing ( Can restrict spatial movement, entrap dimensional travel and teleportation users. Though user with high level penetration capability can escape it by physical movement )

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

The whole point of this scene is that you can’t leave the gift ball but you can enter it. So yeah I agree with the notion that people cannot use dimensional travel to just exit, or Urahara wouldn’t have needed to break someone in from the outside, he would’ve dipped into the Dangai. As long as it’s specified in the ability that it can be entered just not exited I agree with this.

 

[Adam1396]

The whole point of this scene is that you can’t leave the gift ball but you can enter it.

Urahara wouldn’t have to reconstruct it then. It works for both entering and exiting.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

No it doesn’t work the same entering as exiting. Urahara’s words imply he couldn’t reconstruct his way out but only in. There’s a distinguishing property between exit and entrance. Now don’t get my word twisted, I’m not saying you can just walk in lol there’s no door, but there’s nothing special preventing entry

 

[Adam1396]

No it doesn’t work the same entering as exiting. Urahara’s words imply he couldn’t reconstruct his way out but only in. There’s a distinguishing property between exit and entrance. Now don’t get my word twisted, I’m not saying you can just walk in lol there’s no door, but there’s nothing special preventing entry

Read it again. He had to create a path for infiltration despite grimjow having DT.
As for creating path from outside, that's not beyond his bankai's capabilities.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

You’re asserting that Urahara making the entry path = Urahara’s method of entry was the only method of entry. Which is just not verifiably true whatsoever.

In fact Urahara when he speaks on the technique only indicates that there’s no way of leaving, but that it has the potentiality to be penetrated. So he simply tried an outside entry using the technique he had at his disposal at the time and it worked. This in no way even implies that his entry was the only possible entry.

Count me as disagreeing that it prevents dimensional travel from the outside in.

 

[Deceived3596]

I agree with Arc that the technique is never indicated to actually disallow entry into it. It only denotes a clause of it being incapable of escaping from it (inescapable is the adjective used to describe it, which is a word implying a incapability of retreat, while impenetrable is the adjective used to describe an inability to enter into)

I also disagree on it disallowing Dimensional Travel by a quality of it disabling the ability itself, rather than the toxicity of the Deluxe Ball being so incredibly high it's impossible for the opponent to leave it before they're incapacitated. Both claims are assumptions, I agree. It's just that I believe the latter holds a more probabilistic weight behind it since Deluxe Ball is just a hyper-potent utilization of his Deathdealing Schrift, which is never implied or indicated to disable such abilities. It does construct a physical container when used, but I wouldn't say that is evidence for it disallowing Dimensional Travel inherently.

 

[Adam1396]

You’re asserting that Urahara making the entry path = Urahara’s method of entry was the only method of entry. Which is just not verifiably true whatsoever.

In fact Urahara when he speaks on the technique only indicates that there’s no way of leaving, but that it has the potentiality to be penetrated. So he simply tried an outside entry using the technique he had at his disposal at the time and it worked. This in no way even implies that his entry was the only possible entry.

Count me as disagreeing that it prevents dimensional travel from the outside in.

I guess you still haven’t understood what I said.

Let me just rephrase your words itself.
DT and teleportation does not fall under penetration.
Penetration is making way in through physical process and movement. It considers actual distance and movement.

 

[Adam1396]

entry into it. It only denotes a clause of it being incapable of escaping from it (inescapable is the adjective used to describe it, which is a word implying a incapability of retreat, while impenetrable is the adjective used to describe an inability to enter into)

I also disagree on it disallowing Dimensional Travel by a quality of it disabling the ability itself

Entering and Penetrating are different terms even though both generally means getting in, making way in. With the context it heavily matters which raw word been used.
I would need @Arc7Kuroi help to confirm that.

You arguments heavily contradicts what actually happaned within story. There was no point for urahara to go extra length of reconstructing it while grimjow could have just DT through it. This totally doesn’t make any sense whatsoever

 

[Adam1396]

@Hellscream @ReaperAndBlues

 

[Adam1396]

@Excellence616 @Crobatman44 @ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Penetration definitionally is just the act of making your way through something. It does not mean just physically piercing something. Teleporting through a force field would be penetrating it, as you’d be making your way through it, even if by unconventional means. So no I still disagree and stand by Deceived’s interpretation as well.

 

[Adam1396]

Penetration definitionally is just the act of making your way through something. It does not mean just physically piercing something. Teleporting through a force field would be penetrating it, as you’d be making your way through it, even if by unconventional means. So no I still disagree and stand by Deceived’s interpretation as well.

Not at all. DT and Teleportation would ignore the barrier/entrance as a whole.
While penetration means forcing through entrance by physical process and movement. Both are different.
Can you confirm whether the actual raw word is aligned with entrance or penetration?


Nah. Decieved just miserably failed to explain why urahara even would need to go this far midst of such tough battle .
So word's meaning is not the only thing going on there.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Agree to disagree feel free to message staff member walls to get staff input. Reminder that we as blue users cannot ping other people, so those pings you made won’t show up iirc.

 

[Adam1396]

Agree to disagree feel free to message staff member walls to get staff input. Reminder that we as blue users cannot ping other people, so those pings you made won’t show up iirc.

Sure

 

[Deceived3596]

We shall see who "miserably failed" to described this situation by the evaluations of the voting staff.

 

[Adam1396]

We shall see who "miserably failed" to described this situation by the evaluations of the voting staff.

Sure man
Midst of a tough battle getting forced to use bankai, had to make a path for a DT user who was supposed to be capable of entering Gift Bereich. Urahara must be the dumbest bleach character

 

[Excellence616]

I agree with Arc's and Deceived stance here

 

[Adam1396]

I agree with Arc's and Deceived stance here

Can you explain why would urahara even need to create a path for infiltration (which visibly shown reconstructed by bankai) if grimjow could just DT?

 

[Hellscream]

I believe it should be listed as limited, as it only counts when the opponent is trapped inside, as opposed to when they're trying to enter it, considering Urahara's level of intelligence here, if escape was possible from the inside then he would've done so especially considering that he's capable of dimensional travel.

So i agree with the general gist of escaping from the inside not being possible, even with dimensional travel.

 

[Adam1396]

I believe it should be listed as limited, as it only counts when the opponent is trapped inside, as opposed to when they're trying to enter it, considering Urahara's level of intelligence here, if escape was possible from the inside then he would've done so especially considering that he's capable of dimensional travel.

So i agree with the general gist of escaping from the inside not being possible, even with dimensional travel.

I am arguing grimjow could have just used DT. It's restricted DT. Urahara figured that DT not gonna work. So had to reconstruct it for grimjow to enter. It negs both entry exist through DT

 

[Adam1396]

Bump

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I haven't read the manga and I'm the anime hasn't reached this portion yet so I'm going in blind for this one. So I can understand the logic the OP is trying to use and it's pretty sound. However, while I agree DT is unable to get you out, I've got some thoughts on the assumption it can't allow you to get in.

Yes, Grimmjow has DT, I'm not going to argue against that, however him not using it can be due to a few things. The writer simply just didn't have him use it, its pretty common for characters in fiction to not use abilities that would be helpful in a situation just because it's written like that. An example I can think of from a verse I know would be how both Clockwork and Phantom from DP both have Dimensional Travel and actively used it but when they merged together, Phantom decided to find an already active portal to another dimension despite having the ability to do it himself. It's nonsensical but it's something that is a common thing called CIS/PIS (Character/Plot induced Stupidity)

Another thing could be effectiveness. If I'm not mistaken (please correct me if I'm wrong), Grimmjow's DT is opening a portal going inside and coming out of a portal at his destination. This would be more noticable than him sneaking through the pathway Urahara created and thus a more effective manner to enter the area, unless Asking has such terrible awareness that he wouldn't notice the rip in space behind him open up? Now this isn't a fact I'm pushing, I'm simply arguing that this can be a potential reason for why Grimmjow didn't use his DT.

Overall, I'm not knowledgeable enough to say what it is but going of the scans and the potential for it to be different interpretations I'm leaning towards disagreeing the argument that it can stop DT users from entering it.