Fix the Ink Machine (Bendy Verse Clean-Up Thread)

[InkyBattles]

Yeah expect frisk isn't multi in Genocide.
And sans didn't have 211 days of preparation

Frisk’s profile page dosnt state this anywhere. And even then there are many other monsters who were made to fight Frisk in the Pacific route.

Also we’re not talking about preparation we’re talking about universe level+ tiering.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Wilson is the same guy who drugged bendy
And locked him up for like 100+ days torturing him to try to kill him and then sealed him when that failed
And when talking about Wilson he says "They promise us peace, But they bring us only more pain"

Yet his tone doesn't reflect that sort of hatred, at least that's what I got from the scene. The Ink Demon might also not know Wilson's soul is in that thing lol

He does manage to kick Bendy's legs, but for some reason, there is no sound indicating it.

You have an out of bounds thing proving this?

 

[HASE-1929]

Yet his tone doesn't reflect that sort of hatred, at least that's what I got from the scene. The Ink Demon might also not know Wilson's soul is in that thing lol

When Wilson was going on about Bendy shaking the cycle and how evil Bendy is, Bendy, despite not being in the area because he physically can't without being instantly weakened, he was able to clearly see the situation through Audrey's eyes and tried to convince her otherwise.
So it's very likely he also saw what happened to Wilson.
Also, Bendy's tone of voice doesn't change that much throughout the game. There's only one instance of that happening, and it's when he's insulting Audrey for taking control of his body.

You have an out of bounds thing proving this?

Yeah.

 

[HASE-1929]

Frisk’s profile page dosnt state this anywhere. And even then there are many other monsters who were made to fight Frisk in the Pacific route.

They were fighting a high 8-C Frisk, by the way. The only character in Undertale who fights Frisk while they are at their peak is Asriel.
But I don't wanna continue on this because
This is a bendy thread after all.

 

[InkyBattles]

They were fighting a high 8-C Frisk, by the way. The only character in Undertale who fights Frisk while they are at their peak is Asriel.

True. But they always have the reset which resets the timeline

But I don't wanna continue on this because
This is a bendy thread after all

Alr

 

[Mr. Bambu]

When you guys are done discussing, I'm still here, ready to evaluate. A summary of both sides would be cool, when that time comes, but not mandatory.

 

[DaReaperMan]

When Wilson was going on about Bendy shaking the cycle and how evil Bendy is, Bendy, despite not being in the area because he physically can't without being instantly weakened, he was able to clearly see the situation through Audrey's eyes and tried to convince her otherwise.

Or he can just... be a good Manipulator. He did it perfectly

So it's very likely he also saw what happened to Wilson.

Conjecture.

Also, Bendy's tone of voice doesn't change that much throughout the game. There's only one instance of that happening, and it's when he's insulting Audrey for taking control of his body.

So... he does show anger in tone?

Yeah.

So his feet phasing through the Ink Demon is proof he hit Bendy? Even then, could easily be that his kicks are weaker than his punches lol

 

[HASE-1929]

When you guys are done discussing, I'm still here, ready to evaluate. A summary of both sides would be cool, when that time comes, but not mandatory.

I'll give my summary now, as no response has been made in a day, so there's probably no harm.
I suggested Uni+ for two characters: Bendy and Shipahoy Dudley.
Shipahoy Dudley is receiving pushback on that (which makes sense the reasoning was kinda meh.)
But I don't mind just saying he's 9-A.

This is my suggestion for how the scaling should work for the verse to avoid any complications relating to who scales to what and all (more input from supporters would be appreciated for this):

Low Tiers (Lost Ones, Baby Widows, Searchers, Cartoon Bendy, The Butcher Gang) would be 9-A, as they are capable of hurting Henry, though not by much. Henry completely tanked the metal wall feat unharmed so they would upscale it due to being able to inflict harm

Mid Tiers would also be 9-A (anyone not mentioned in Low, High, or God Tier). These characters are semi comparable to Henry or, in some cases, are outright superior to him being able to knock him out.

High Tiers (Bertrum, The Lurker, Norman Polk, Giant Searcher, Brute Boris, Giant River Hand) would be at least 9-A. Most of them can kill Henry and Audrey in one blow and other Mid Tiers very quickly

God Tiers (Bendy/the ink demon, Shipahoy Wilson, and the Ink Machine) should be Low 2-C.

1.The Ink Machine created the cycle, Shipahoy Dudley, and Bendy/the ink demon, Wilson stated the machine was 'beyond any measure' and it took multiple blows from Bendy without being damaged.

2.Bendy/the ink demon is capable of shaking and stopping the cycle from growing just by existing. He is also feared by everything in the cycle and is considered a god/savior, He can tear apart high-tier characters in fights and ripped out Shipahoy Dudleys throat after casually pinning him down.

3.shipahoy Dudley was created specifically to fight Bendy, while still massively inferior to bendy, he should be superior to the cycle due to this purpose, stated to be 'powerful beyond anyone' and casually overpowered Audrey and ripped off her legs

Here's the original thing proposing it if you want more context.

 

[Antvasima]

@DaReaperMan @ShockingPsychic

Can you please summarise the arguments from each side here, so our staff members who have helped out here can evaluate them?

 

[DaReaperMan]

@DaReaperMan @ShockingPsychic

Can you please summarise the arguments from each side here, so our staff members who have helped out here can evaluate them?

Basically, the point of contention currently is whether Shipahoy Dudley/Wilson scales to Low 2-C(A tier I don't like in the first place, but regardless) based off of a couple statements that it was stronger and meant to fight, The Ink Demon.

One side pushes for this to be enough for backscaling despite the anti-feat, the other says hell no he doesn't and he got stomped unceremoniously.

To be perfectly blunt: Wilson's page needs a literal complete overhaul from the base code up anyways so this is part of that process. I'd rather see the results of the rework before starting on staff evaluations... and before you ask me to do it, part of it is like... wanting to. I have little interest in deep diving a character I could not care less about to rework their profile.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Can you elaborate more please? And what is the reasoning for that Bendy scales to Low 2-C on a physical level, rather than that it is entirely separate specific reality warping, environmental destruction, creation, or something similar?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Okay. Can you elaborate more please?

Ant, it really comes down to Wilson's statements compared to what actually happened. That is the separation here. Bendynoah has even gone on record saying that he's fine rating Dudley at just 9-A

And what is the reasoning for that Bendy scales to Low 2-C on a physical level, rather than that it is entirely separate specific reality warping, environmental destruction, creation, or something similar?

He physically shook the cycle. Seeing as the Cycle is Low 2-C, he scales, and since the list of people who ACTUALLY scale to Bendy can literally be Projectionist with an At Most if we really want to count that he staggered a likely casual Bendy. And nobody else if I had my way.

Like, Bendy vs anyone else in the verse ends with Bendy completely stomping them the moment he even gets remotely serious if he wasn't already.

 

[Antvasima]

Ant, it really comes down to Wilson's statements compared to what actually happened. That is the separation here. Bendynoah has even gone on record saying that he's fine rating Dudley at just 9-A

Okay. That is probably fine then.

He physically shook the cycle. Seeing as the Cycle is Low 2-C, he scales, and since the list of people who ACTUALLY scale to Bendy can literally be Projectionist with an At Most if we really want to count that he staggered a likely casual Bendy. And nobody else if I had my way.

Like, Bendy vs anyone else in the verse ends with Bendy completely stomping them the moment he even gets remotely serious if he wasn't already.

Okay, but if he has been repeatedly damaged and beaten by 9-A characters, it may be an outlier, or some kind of separate ability due to his connection to the ink, but I am not well informed regarding this verse.

By the way, is Bendy the ink demon supposed to symbolise the Walt Disney Corporation, with the people whose souls are stuck in the ink representing the employees whose creativity and love have been exploited and drained for the cause of hollow monetary profits?

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Sorry for my absence, I haven't been getting notifs until Ant's message

I'm a tad busy right this second, I can make a proper post with rundowns later

Personally, I don't agree with Low 2-C for either Bendy or Dudley (maybe Bendy could have it as Environmental Destruction). I think Low 2-C should be reserved for characters that control the cycle through the book/ink machine itself

 

[Antvasima]

Sorry for my absence, I haven't been getting notifs until Ant's message

No problem at all.

I'm a tad busy right this second, I can make a proper post with rundowns later

Thank you very much for your help.

Personally, I don't agree with Low 2-C for either Bendy or Dudley (maybe Bendy could have it as Environmental Destruction). I think Low 2-C should be reserved for characters that control the cycle through the book/ink machine itself

I think that seems like a very reasonable interpretation.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Okay. That is probably fine then.

Okay, but if he has been repeatedly damaged and beaten by 9-A characters, it may be an outlier, or some kind of separate ability due to his connection to the ink, but I am not well informed regarding this verse.

Uh... no? Projectionist is the only character who's done literally anything to Bendy and chances are Bendy was casual. Dudley only threw him which is LS. Even the Tommy Gun you can get in Chapter 3 of the original game does literally nothing to the Ink Demon.

Keep in mind I'm sort of which Psychic on this, but that's the unconscious bias I have against tiers 2 and 1, I don't rate characters there if I can help it.

By the way, is Bendy the ink demon supposed to symbolise the Walt Disney Corporation, with the people whose souls are stuck in the ink representing the employees whose creativity and love have been exploited and drained for the cause of hollow monetary profits?

The bendy series is a story about a man who was bitter at everything, but most importantly, bitter at his best friend for moving onto better things. The Ink Machine and the Cycle was literally his way of getting back at Henry and pitting the blame on him... a fake version of Henry sure, but still Henry. Then he started getting older, and met a gal named Allison, who brought the light back into his life, thus leading to him writing to people, apologizing, and giving the Henry in the cycle an Allison of his own. And eventually using the Ink Machine for some form of good by making a daughter: Audrey.

That's a very short summary not going into many events, and you could probably find multi-hour long essays on the BatIM story.

 

[HASE-1929]

By the way, is Bendy the ink demon supposed to symbolise the Walt Disney Corporation, with the people whose souls are stuck in the ink representing the employees whose creativity and love have been exploited and drained for the cause of hollow monetary profits?

I don't think it's exactly meant to symbolize Walt, but it's meant to symbolize greed, so yeah.
Everything the Ink Demon does is meant to make himself feel better, and he's just all around extremely evil.

 

[HASE-1929]

Personally, I don't agree with Low 2-C for either Bendy or Dudley (maybe Bendy could have it as Environmental Destruction). I think Low 2-C should be reserved for characters that control the cycle through the book/ink machine itself

I can see it for environmental destruction but
Characters like Wilson who has the book are still genuinely terrified of Bendy, admitting that they can't really do anything about him and will do anything to avoid him.
Wilson mass produced the signal towers gent made because he came to the conclusion bendy was "too powerful to kill"
Edit:I should also note Henry said himself that bendy was above the cycle in dark revival.
And that he would also just evolve past the end reel too

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Low Tiers (Lost Ones, Baby Widows, Searchers, Cartoon Bendy, The Butcher Gang) would be 9-A, as they are capable of hurting Henry, though not by much. Henry completely tanked the metal wall feat unharmed so they would upscale it due to being able to inflict harm

Mid Tiers would also be 9-A (anyone not mentioned in Low, High, or God Tier). These characters are semi comparable to Henry or, in some cases, are outright superior to him being able to knock him out.

High Tiers (Bertrum, The Lurker, Norman Polk, Giant Searcher, Brute Boris, Giant River Hand) would be at least 9-A. Most of them can kill Henry and Audrey in one blow and other Mid Tiers very quickly

All of this is correct, shouldn't be controversial at all

As for Low 2-C Bendy and Shipahoy Dudley...

First, Dudley scaling to Bendy. While he was indeed designed as a weapon to combat Bendy, it's worth noting that it didn't work at all. Dudley gets killed by Bendy without putting up any sort of fight. While Dudley was injured, he was still healthy enough to greatly harm Audrey.

Not to mention this implies Low 2-C Audrey, as she can harm him, which is highly inconsistent (she struggles to perform superhuman feats without the use of a weapon in general)

I think I could see a "At least 9-A, likely higher" rating due to him being stronger than most basic monsters within the cycle, but I can't see him scaling to bendy as he gets mauled and killed the second he actually enters a fight with Bendy

Now, for Low 2-C Bendy...

I certainly see the vision. I don't think this is a baseless assumption, but I have problems with it.

About the 'shaking the Cycle' feat. The exact lines are this;

Wilson: The Demon's evil continues to spread. This world has begun to shudder...

Bendy: He's lying, Audrey.

So, you can see a few problems with this line. First, it could just be flowery language, describing how the Cycle is growing to fear Bendy. Second, Bendy claims that Wilson is lying. Now, Bendy is a huge liar, as is Wilson, so it's hard to tell who's speaking true here. I can say that the Cycle is indeed terrified of Bendy, however, Wilson is also contributing a lot to it...

Secondly, assuming Bendy did literally shake the Cycle, wouldn't that be 3-A or something? I don't think he shook time, if anything, just the physical space that the Cycle takes place in.

Anyways, moving on,

As for him resetting the Cycle when exposed to The End (the series' macguffin, which causes time within the Cycle to get reset/slightly altered each time), I would argue this is just Time Manipulation. I'm not entirely sure how these feats are treated, but this could give him a "Low 2-C via Environmental Destruction", since the Cycle is seemingly remade whenever he does this.

I don't think he should scale fully physically, as he does have some antifeats. There's him getting staggered by the Projectionist (who can be killed by a gun), and him getting his arm slammed in a door, causing him to retreat

Ultimately, my suggestion is to keep Bendy and Dudley at "At least 9-A, likely far higher" and then I wouldn't be opposed to a "Low 2-C with Environmental Destruction" to Bendy

 

[Antvasima]

ShockingPsychic seems to make sense to me here.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Since elaboration is vague, I'm looking into this.

The Cycle is a story as a realm, being within it is akin to being within a story. It has particular mechanics as to how it works, such that a character could feasibly "shake" it without causing it to literally, physically shake, and even if they did, it would not necessarily scale to their own physicals. It's like collapsing a tower by removing a support beam in the basement, you wouldn't scale to the full tower- only in this case, the gap is potentially much wider, and not exactly physical. The place can be manipulated with cartoon logic and ideas, such that Bendy doesn't necessarily need to have done much of anything at all- his imagination just needs to be antithetical to the place's existence.

Those actually knowledgeable are free, of course, to elaborate or contest this, but for now, this seems relevant information to have.

As for the discussion, bearing in mind the further vagueness of Bendy's supposed Low 2-C feat, I disagree outright with Low 2-C for this verse at this time.

Ultimately, my suggestion is to keep Bendy and Dudley at "At least 9-A, likely far higher"

This rating seems sufficient.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out. Bambu makes sense to me here.

 

[HASE-1929]

It has particular mechanics as to how it works, such that a character could feasibly "shake" it without causing it to literally, physically shake, and even if they did, it would not necessarily scale to their own physicals. It's like collapsing a tower by removing a support beam in the basement, you wouldn't scale to the full tower- only in this case, the gap is potentially much wider, and not exactly physical. The place can be manipulated with cartoon logic and ideas, such that Bendy doesn't necessarily need to have done much of anything at all- his imagination just needs to be antithetical to the place's existence.

You need a specific item to affect the place with imagination and all.
Without it, you can't do much
Bendy doesn't have the book that can warp the cycle like that.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

I disagree outright with Low 2-C for this verse at this time.

Other characters have feats of creating the Cycle in the first place (via items and not their own power, but still), which has its own space-time and is infinite in size, so I think Low 2-C is fine for those (Joey and Audrey mainly, though Wilson did technically have the power as well)

Bendy doesn't necessarily need to have done much of anything at all- his imagination just needs to be antithetical to the place's existence.

This isn't exactly how it works. There's stuff outside of the cycle (in the real world) that can shape how the cycle works, but having imagination within the Cycle itself doesn't really act as reality warping or anything.

The rest works though

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Other characters have feats of creating the Cycle in the first place (via items and not their own power, but still), which has its own space-time and is infinite in size, so I think Low 2-C is fine for those (Joey and Audrey mainly, though Wilson did technically have the power as well)


This isn't exactly how it works. There's stuff outside of the cycle (in the real world) that can shape how the cycle works, but having imagination within the Cycle itself doesn't really act as reality warping or anything.

The rest works though

The wiki seems to present it as the Cycle having existed already, with outside individuals adding bits to it (e.g., the studio) over time. Is this inaccurate?

 

[ShockingPsychic]

The wiki seems to present it as the Cycle having existed already, with outside individuals adding bits to it (e.g., the studio) over time. Is this inaccurate?

It's stated that the Cycle was created by Joey with help from the Gent Corporation, ultimately gaining complete control over it (as seen with Audrey in the game's ending)

Looking at it, the wiki does have some information that is new to me, probably from a book I haven't read (of which there are two, I think). The game itself does state that it was created by the Ink Machine (used by Joey), and later on shows that Audrey has complete control over it though.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I see. Wikis have a tendency to be mildly inaccurate, so I'll take your word for it. In any case, I don't think that bit is too relevant, and I'd still disagree with Low 2-C AP per this CRT.

 

[InkyBattles]

Personally, I don't agree with Low 2-C for either Bendy or Dudley (maybe Bendy could have it as Environmental Destruction). I think Low 2-C should be reserved for characters that control the cycle through the book/ink machine itself

Fair, but don’t the characters with the book/the ink machine couldn’t destroy the Ink Demon in anyway with the Ink Demon consistently stating to be stronger than them? If Wilson wanted to purge the Ink Demon so much why wouldn’t he use the book/ink machine to attempt to do so? While I disagree with Ship-Ahoy Wilson being low 2-C, the Ink Demon seems fine to me.

 

[InkyBattles]

I would also say book should be 2-C.

Because one cannot only control the Cycle and make it safer using the book but they can release physical matter inside the Cycle into the Real World and bleed the fundamental aspects of the Cycle’s reality into the fundamental aspects of the Real World’s reality in order to create a new reality. As the fundamental aspects of reality should be space, time and dimensions in this context. As the Cycle and the Real World are dimensional realities. And Audrey makes the Cycle safer, releases Cartoon Bendy into the Real World and states that the Cycle is escaping into the Real World which is a fancy way of saying bleeding/merging. This is very similar to Slenderman’s dimensional bleeding ability.
https://thefearmythos.fandom.com/wiki/Dimensional_Bleeding

 

[InkyBattles]

Also the Fade to Black novelization states two interesting things:

1. Each time Bendy resets time within the Cycle it creates a new layer of itself on top of the previous layer of itself.
2. Bendy should have abstract existence to be the perfect manifestation of the Illusion of Living book itself. The Illusion of Living is stating to be Joey Drew’s philosophical belief and idea that there isn’t a difference reality and fantasy. And Joey Drew states that Bendy is the perfect manifestation of it. This should give more context on why Wilson couldn’t use the book in order to get rid of the Ink Demon.

I’ll give the scans in a second when I find the pages that state these the first one should be easy the second one I’m gonna need to dig for accouple minutes probably.

 

[InkyBattles]

1. Each time Bendy resets time within the Cycle it creates a new layer of itself on top of the previous layer of itself.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:Infinite_layers_(Bendy).jpg

I’m gonna need to find my illusion of living book for the second one don’t worry I WILL find it.

 

[HASE-1929]

Fair, but don’t the characters with the book/the ink machine couldn’t destroy the Ink Demon in anyway with the Ink Demon consistently stating to be stronger than them? If Wilson wanted to purge the Ink Demon so much why wouldn’t he use the book/ink machine to attempt to do so? While I disagree with Ship-Ahoy Wilson being low 2-C, the Ink Demon seems fine to me.

Even if you want to use this, leave the machine out of it. It's constantly treated as being superior to everything in the verse. Even in the Lost Ones and fade to black, when Bendy punches it and rams his whole body into it, it doesn't even move or get damaged at all.
Anyways
I agree with at least 9-A likely far higher for bendy with low 2-C environmental destruction.

 

[InkyBattles]

Even if you want to use this, leave the machine out of it. It's constantly treated as being superior to everything in the verse. Even in the Lost Ones and fade to black, when Bendy punches it and rams his whole body into it, it doesn't even move or get damaged at all.
Anyways
I agree with at least 9-A likely far higher for bendy with low 2-C environmental destruction.

The Ink Machine is treated as superior to the Cycle and its inhabitants only. Especially if you take the fact that the Master can use the Ink Machine in order to control the Cycle making it universal level+. However, that the Master can use the Illusion of Living to control the Cycle and well, and bleed/merge the Cycle into the Real World making it low multiverse level into consideration. In shorter terms, basically anything that the Ink Machine can do the Illusion of Living can do and better.

With that being said, the Illusion of Living is easily far superior to anything in the Bendy verse rather that’s the Cycle and its inhabitants or the Real World and its inhabitants.

 

[Antvasima]

What have our staff members decided here so far?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Regarding the Ink Demon and Ship Ahoy Wilson discussion, I believe both to lack significant justification for Low 2-C, and disagree with the rating, acknowledging that the Ink Demon is likely much higher than whatever tier he ends up upscaling from.

 

[Antvasima]

Regarding the Ink Demon and Ship Ahoy Wilson discussion, I believe both to lack significant justification for Low 2-C, and disagree with the rating, acknowledging that the Ink Demon is likely much higher than whatever tier he ends up upscaling from.

Thank you for helping out. That is probably fine then.

 

[HASE-1929]

Bertrum spins fast

vsbattles.fandom.com

this would scale to like every mid tier as Henry survives it with very minimal damage and only gets sent backwards like 5 inches

 

[DaReaperMan]

Bertrum spins fast

vsbattles.fandom.com

this would scale to like every mid tier as Henry survives it with very minimal damage and only gets sent backwards like 5 inches

You need to calculate Henry's surface area on it, as it's a KE feat

 

[HASE-1929]

You need to calculate Henry's surface area on it, as it's a KE feat

Ight I'll do that when I have the time.
It's still good for the high tiers though considering they fully scale And because bertum is not that strong in comparison to the other high tiers

 

[Polastournecis]

Okay, but if he has been repeatedly damaged and beaten by 9-A characters, it may be an outlier, or some kind of separate ability due to his connection to the ink, but I am not well informed regarding this verse.

One thing you may have forgotten, it was the evolved Ink Demon, not Ink Bendy. Probably we should seperate this into another key. The Ink Demon is the only one to show these on-screen Low 2-C feats.