Star Wars Profiles

[god_cat]

I've noticed that some characters, even most of the important NJO characters, don't have profiles, so I'd like to help review and add them, starting with my favorites. If you have profiles you've made, you can post them here, and I'd like to present an Onimi profile I made myself

Onimi (Star Wars) vsbattles.fandom.com

Agree: @LordVader30 @Harith0cell @Xavis10 @Grand_Astartes @RetroWeeeb @Kenny Mccormick 0v0
Disagree:
Nötr: @TegamiBachi25

 

[Kenny Mccormick 0v0]

Agree on 4-B, but when did he become 1-C? (You didn't write a key)

 

[god_cat]

Agree on 4-B, but when did he become 1-C? (You didn't write a key)

I've changed it a little more, but what about just 1-C?

 

[god_cat]

Do you think these achievements are appropriate for infinite and immeasurable speed?

this achievement basically allows the anakin to react to hyperspace speeds hyperspace is a much higher dimension where there is no such thing as timeless directional distance and here we see that hyperspace ships can travel at basically infinite speeds.

 

[god_cat]

bump

 

[LordVader30]

I agree

 

[Kenny Mccormick 0v0]

I've changed it a little more, but what about just 1-C?

Didn't saba sebatyne is 1-C during fate of the jedi?

 

[Kenny Mccormick 0v0]

I think shimrra and onimi should be high 3-A(Scaling to sidious force storm)

 

[god_cat]

I think shimrra and onimi should be high 3-A(Scaling to sidious force storm)

Didn't saba sebatyne is 1-C during fate of the jedi?

names like shimrra pose threats even to Oneness luke, and considering that Oneness luke is at a higher level than normal jedi masters like saba, I think 1-C seems to be available

 

[god_cat]

It's not finished yet, but I made a Saba profile.

Saba Sebatyne

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[god_cat]

Bump

 

[god_cat]

Bump

 

[Harith0cell]

Agree with op all above.

 

[god_cat]

Bump

 

[TegamiBachi25]

neutral for now

 

[Xavis10]

Agree, even though I am still unsure if Onimi is outright 1-C or he just happened to have a really good hax that regular Force Users were unprepared for.

names like shimrra pose threats even to Oneness luke, and considering that Oneness luke is at a higher level than normal jedi masters like saba, I think 1-C seems to be available

Could you provide the quote saying Shimrra was a threat to Oneness Luke?

 

[god_cat]

Agree, even though I am still unsure if Onimi is outright 1-C or he just happened to have a really good hax that regular Force Users were unprepared for.



Could you provide the quote saying Shimrra was a threat to Oneness Luke?

When Luke had been brought before the Emperor, Palpatine's visage had been familiar to him from images that had reached even remote Tatooine, and his inherent power was immediately evident.

The Supreme Overlord, however, was a void Luke could not fathom. He wasn't a shell of a human in a hooded cloak, more energy than flesh. Nor was his face that of a Sith Master, prematurely wizened by years of calling on dark power.

Instead, Shimrra was very much alive and all the more intimidating for it. In him was concentrated the combined strength of the Yuuzhan Vong species, and if he couldn't be defeated, then all that Luke had done to reach this point would amount to nothing. He was the largest Yuuzhan Vong Luke had ever seen, with lean limbs, a massive head, and an upper body so thoroughly branded and tattooed it was impossible to distinguish flesh from garment.

Widely placed, his slightly slanted eyes gleamed in shifting colors. He wore a ceremonial cape made of tanned hide. Curled sedately around his left forearm was a thick-bodied amphistaff with an intricately patterned head. Only in his bemusement was Shimrra similar to the enemy Luke had confronted at Endor, on the incomplete Death Star.

Much as the Emperor had trusted in the power of the dark side of the Force, the Supreme Overlord trusted entirely in the power of the gods. And similar to that pivotal moment in the Galactic Civil War, a battle was raging in the skies.


-New Jedi Order: The Unifying Force-

 

[RetroWeeeb]

Just gonna preface my response by saying that I have merely a passing knowledge of the Legends EU and so if I state anything incorrect, then my apologies. However, I do not believe an in depth knowledge in SW lore is needed to see the problems inherent in these profiles.

Starting with Onimi

Spoiler

1. The New Jedi Order: The Unifying Force
2. ↑ The New Jedi Order: The Unifying Force
3. ↑ The New Jedi Order: The Unifying Force
4. ↑ The New Jedi Order: The Unifying Force
5. ↑ The Essential Reader's Companion: Star Wars
6. ↑ New Essential Guide to Chronology Online
7. ↑ The New Jedi Order: The Unifying Force
8. ↑ The New Jedi Order: The Unifying Force
9. ↑ The New Jedi Order: The Unifying Force
   
   ...etc

This reference section is unnecessary. You only need to make 1 reference link for TUF that can be re-referenced several times in the profile, not add a new reference each time it is needed. Either remove the fluff and just reference TUF once, or add in more specific references to which chapter/page are being referenced at each time, for example (note, chapter numbers chosen at random)

1. The New Jedi Order: The Unifying Force - Chapter 13
2. ↑ The New Jedi Order: The Unifying Force - Chapter 24
3. ↑ The New Jedi Order: The Unifying Force - Chapter 2

He had control over Shimrra, which was compared to Onimi Sidious

I think you just mean Sidious here. Minor mistake. Also, it should be "who was compared".

and was an incomprehensible void even for Oneness Luke,

When Luke had been brought before the Emperor, Palpatine's visage had been familiar to him from images that had reached even remote Tatooine, and his inherent power was immediately evident.

The Supreme Overlord, however, was a void Luke could not fathom. He wasn't a shell of a human in a hooded cloak, more energy than flesh. Nor was his face that of a Sith Master, prematurely wizened by years of calling on dark power.

...etc

Nowhere here does it say Luke was in a state of oneness during their fight. Could you provide a quote that actually says so. Also, don't Oneness states vary in potency? As in not all Oneness states are equally as powerful. In that case, what makes Oneness Luke 1-C in TUF?

It should be comparable to jedi masters like Saba Sebatyne

I think you mean "He" not "It". Also, I don't like when profiles assert "X should be comparable to Y" without any proof. Explain why Onimi should be comparable to Saba, even if it seems obvious.

At least FTL+ reactions and combat speed (Casually knocked away Jaina Solo)

Considering that Jaina doesn't have a profile, this isn't very good justification. Also lacks any reference or scan. I'll discuss the infinite speed rating in a separate section.

Lifting Strength: Superhuman, exact level unknown

The underlined bit isn't necessary and I haven't seen it used on any other profile.

and also oneness was referred to as physically stronger than jacen's avatar body)

I'm assuming you meant "and was referred to as physically stronger than Oneness Jacen's avatar body", as the current line makes no sense.

Stamina: Peak Human (Should be comparable to vongs like Shimrra)

Not only does this lack a proper reference / scan, but Shimrra's current profile gives him "Extremely High" stamina.

Range: At least extended melee range physically | Hundreds of Meters (with its control over the citadel)

Lacks any justification for why he has these ratings, and also lacks any scans.

Now Saba (PS I know you said that this profile was unfinished, but considering how often Saba is referenced in Onimi's profile, I feel the need to tackle this as well, especially considering that it appears as tho Onimi's 1-C rating comes, in part, from his scaling to Saba).

Spoiler

Attack Potency: High Universe level (It should be comparable to Dark Empire Sidious

No justification or reason for why Saba should be comparable to DE Sidious, especially considering that this is Saba's NJO key. I don't remember Saba doing anything impressive enough in the NJO books to warrant this scaling.

who can create attacks that can cover the infinite distance between two points in hyperspace

neither of these scans have anything to do with Sidious, and neither of the sources of these scans are referenced. Also, while I don't know the exact context, the first scan does blatantly state that what is happening is an illusion and simply her perception of events

"As one, the Imperial ships began to stretch in her perception."

"She knew it was illusion, that it was a trick of her perception caused by the moment they entered hyperspace seeming to freeze before her eyes".

I don't see how these scans support Sidious creating attacks than can span infinite distances as you claim.

as well as the ability to create storms that can tear the fabric of space.)

While I can't speak to whether this alone can qualify for High 3-A, I would like to note that DE Sidious is currently only accepted as being 4-B, so a CRT would be needed to revaluate his placement before you try to implement Saba's profile.

Complex Multiverse level (In the climax of the events in Fate of the jedi, he managed to encounter and even kill one of Abeloth's avatars, who managed to get inside a computer core.)

While Saba killing an avatar of Abeloth is certainly impressive, it should be of note that not all of Abeloth's avatars are equal in strength, and it is a key plot point of the novel that Abeloth's avatars are weakened whenever another of them are defeated.

Before Saba fights and kills one such avatar in the scan you linked, she outright states that Luke's fight against Abeloth is causing her avatars to weaken, hence why Saba was able to win. In that case, I don't see why her avatar in this instance would necessarily have to scale to 1-C, given that it is actively weakened.

Not gonna touch the rest of Saba's profile as the rest of it is either unfinished or not relevant to Onimi.

Finally, the speed ratings

Spoiler

Infinite (Should be comparable to darth sidious who can create and spread his attacks between two infinite distances)

I've already explained my issues with the first scan, so lets dive into the second one.

Firstly, the quote says "practically infinite speeds". The term "practically" is important here as it denotes that the starships are not literally travelling at infinite speeds, but are simply travelling fast enough compared to anything outside of hyperspace that they might as well be infinite by comparison.

Secondly, the scan straight up says that "A well-equipped starship can travel from one side of the galaxy to another in a matter of days or weeks", further cementing that they are not literally travelling at infinite speeds, because if they were then the journey across the galaxy would be instantaneous, not take weeks.

Thirdly, you haven't provided a reason why these characters would scale to this speed anyway. There are no scans of Sidious creating this "infinite" attacks and no justifications provided as why these characters should scale to Sidious anyway (not saying they don't but you haven't provided any reasonings).

As for these scans


nothing in here even hints at Immeasurable speed. Just because Hyperspace is higherdimensional doesn't mean that everything within it are travelling at speeds beyond time. Evidently from the previous scan, ships in Hyperspace still take time to traverse from point A to point B, which contradicts the notion of them being immeasurable.

Overall, I guess put me down for disagree at the moment, as the currently proposed profile lacks proper justifications and the justifications that it does have does not support the proposed ratings, in my opinion.

 

[god_cat]

First of all, a profile I made in the past was not accepted because of the lack of references, so I wanted to put all the references and since I am new to the wiki, I don't know exactly how to organize them. to continue, English is not my native tongue so bad grammar is entirely my fault if you've read the TUF novel and know a little bit about the encounter, you should know that Luke Skywalker enters a state of oneness with the Force as he begins to encounter the Yuuzhan Vong Slayers. I want to talk about jaina solo, she was very comparable to her brother when she was a jedi, and she was also easily comparable to the slayers that even names like luke could easily fight, and we saw that she fought very well against them. I won't even mention the saba profile because the profile I requested to be added is the onimi profile and the saba profile is not even finished yet I want to address the infinite speed thing, first of all, the fact that hyperspace ships can reach infinite speed in practice does not mean that they can do it, of course, but it is supporting evidence, and hyperspace travel takes weeks because each hyperspace lane is infinitely wide and large, and the achievement that I claim about Sidious is based on the fact that he can create hyperspace wormholes and he can completely manipulate them.

Vast energy storms that connect wildly disparate spots across the galaxy, hyperspace wormholes are unpredictable and devastating. It was to the Rebel Alliance's detriment that Emperor Palpatine was able to not only control these storms, but to create them. -Handbook Volume Three: Dark Empire- "The Force Storm is truly an awe-inspiring demonstration of pure natural energy. After using the Force to open a hyperspace wormhole, tremendous shockwaves will ripple through the fabric of space. Due to the Force Storm's potential for abuse, the Council has recently classified it as a dark side power." -The Jedi Path: A Manual for Students of the Force- This is perhaps the single most destructive Force power known. This power allows the Jedi to twist the space-time continuum to create vast storms of force. The power also allows limited control of these storms. Capable of creating annihilating vortices, the storms can swallow whole fleets of spaceships or tear the surfaces off worlds. -Dark Empire Sourcebook-

 

[RetroWeeeb]

First of all, a profile I made in the past was not accepted because of the lack of references, so I wanted to put all the references and since I am new to the wiki, I don't know exactly how to organize them.

With references, it would be easiest to just create one for TUF and then use that same reference each time

to continue, English is not my native tongue so bad grammar is entirely my fault

It was mostly minor mistakes, I just pointed them out to help improve the profile.

if you've read the TUF novel and know a little bit about the encounter, you should know that Luke Skywalker enters a state of oneness with the Force as he begins to encounter the Yuuzhan Vong Slayers.

Like I said, more of a casual EU guy, been a while since I read TUF so I don't remember exact details. But still, most people who look at the profiles aren't going to have a detailed knowledge on SW, and so claims like this need to be sourced.



Thank you for the scan. Question though, how do we treat Oneness ratings? I know it was discussed in the last thread, but were any conclusions agreed upon? I ask because in the scan provided it appears as though Luke is entering a weaker/minor state of Oneness compared to the likes of Barriss or Jacen, a state where the Force guides his actions but doesn't appear to grant any ""transcendent"" level amps. At the moment I don't see how this scan proves Luke was 1-C in this instance.

I won't even mention the saba profile because the profile I requested to be added is the onimi profile and the saba profile is not even finished yet

Yeah I probably shouldn't have commented on the Saba profile as it was unfinished. Just though I should tackle her 1-C stuff as she is referenced repeatedly in Onimi's profile. If I were you, I would remove most/all references to Saba from Onimi's profile, and just reference profiles that already exist.

first of all, the fact that hyperspace ships can reach infinite speed in practice does not mean that they can do it, of course, but it is supporting evidence,

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but nowhere have you proved that hyperspace ships can reach infinite speeds. The statement of "practically infinite" was simply reference to the fact that they were massively faster than any non-hyperspace ship, not literally infinite.

hyperspace travel takes weeks because each hyperspace lane is infinitely wide and large

1. proof that hyperspace lanes are infinitely large? I've never heard of this
2 that's not how hyperspace works. Every point is hyperspace is analogous to a point in real space, with hyperspace simply allowing ships to travel at FTL speeds. If hyperspace lanes were infinite, then that would make the galaxy itself infinite, which it clearly isn't.

I claim about Sidious is based on the fact that he can create hyperspace wormholes and he can completely manipulate them.

This doesn't at all match with your claim in Onimi's profile

Infinite (Should be comparable to darth sidious who can create and spread his attacks between two infinite distances)

No where in the 3 quotes you just provided does it ever imply Sidious can spread his attacks across an infinite distance, simply that he can create them to connect points in the galaxy. Both ends of the wormhole simply appear where Sidious wants them to, there's no spreading out between infinite distances.

 

[god_cat]

With references, it would be easiest to just create one for TUF and then use that same reference each time

It was mostly minor mistakes, I just pointed them out to help improve the profile.

Like I said, more of a casual EU guy, been a while since I read TUF so I don't remember exact details. But still, most people who look at the profiles aren't going to have a detailed knowledge on SW, and so claims like this need to be sourced.



Thank you for the scan. Question though, how do we treat Oneness ratings? I know it was discussed in the last thread, but were any conclusions agreed upon? I ask because in the scan provided it appears as though Luke is entering a weaker/minor state of Oneness compared to the likes of Barriss or Jacen, a state where the Force guides his actions but doesn't appear to grant any ""transcendent"" level amps. At the moment I don't see how this scan proves Luke was 1-C in this instance.

Yeah I probably shouldn't have commented on the Saba profile as it was unfinished. Just though I should tackle her 1-C stuff as she is referenced repeatedly in Onimi's profile. If I were you, I would remove most/all references to Saba from Onimi's profile, and just reference profiles that already exist.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but nowhere have you proved that hyperspace ships can reach infinite speeds. The statement of "practically infinite" was simply reference to the fact that they were massively faster than any non-hyperspace ship, not literally infinite.

1. proof that hyperspace lanes are infinitely large? I've never heard of this
2 that's not how hyperspace works. Every point is hyperspace is analogous to a point in real space, with hyperspace simply allowing ships to travel at FTL speeds. If hyperspace lanes were infinite, then that would make the galaxy itself infinite, which it clearly isn't.

This doesn't at all match with your claim in Onimi's profile

No where in the 3 quotes you just provided does it ever imply Sidious can spread his attacks across an infinite distance, simply that he can create them to connect points in the galaxy. Both ends of the wormhole simply appear where Sidious wants them to, there's no spreading out between infinite distances.

I would like to answer the first question Oneness luke in my opinion can be separated in two ways, one is the avatar body that we saw at that time and his true essence, but I am skipping it because the certainty of this is not clear and the supporting statements are contradictory, but it is certain that he was already far superior to masters like saba even in his base form during the NJO period, and his FOTJ self is much more powerful than the NJO self, and there is a saying of jaina about this

She had thought she had a fair understanding of his Force abilities, but if his flying was any example, he hadn't revealed half of what he could do. Maybe not even a quarter.
-Legacy of the Force: Inferno-


First of all, we need to understand the nature of hyperspace and the whole of hyperspace itself. Hyperspace is clearly a separate space-time dimension outside the universe.



it has also been stated many times that it is infinitely wide and infinitely large, that distance has no directional meaning, and that at the same time every strip of hyperspace is infinitely wide.

 

[RetroWeeeb]

I would like to answer the first question Oneness luke in my opinion can be separated in two ways, one is the avatar body that we saw at that time and his true essence, but I am skipping it because the certainty of this is not clear and the supporting statements are contradictory, but it is certain that he was already far superior to masters like saba even in his base form during the NJO period, and his FOTJ self is much more powerful than the NJO self, and there is a saying of jaina about this

She had thought she had a fair understanding of his Force abilities, but if his flying was any example, he hadn't revealed half of what he could do. Maybe not even a quarter.
-Legacy of the Force: Inferno-

I am not questioning that NJO Luke, even without Oneness, is superior to the likes of NJO Saba and any other Jedi at the time, what I am questioning is Luke being 1-C in his fight against Shimrra. Luke's current 1-C rating comes from his FOTJ-era and you have provided no reasonings for why NJO Luke should scale to his FOTJ self. Even the LOTF quote you posted seems to imply LOTF Luke >> NJO Luke.

Plus, Jaina witnessed "Oneness" Luke fight Shimrra in TUF, and so wouldn't her LOTF quote imply LOTF Luke > TUF Luke. If so, this seems to further disprove the notion that TUF Luke was in some sort of transcendental Oneness state if he seemingly surpassed it later in life.

Also, I just realised that Luke has a Dark Empire key and a FOTJ key, but no key/s for anything in between. Someone should really update Luke's profile.

First of all, we need to understand the nature of hyperspace and the whole of hyperspace itself. Hyperspace is clearly a separate space-time dimension outside the universe.

I never argued against this.

it has also been stated many times that it is infinitely wide and infinitely large, that distance has no directional meaning, and that at the same time every strip of hyperspace is infinitely wide.

Not a single one of the scans you posted says anything even remotely similar to this.

This just refers to Hyperspace as "endless", a vague descriptor by itself.

This is the same scan you posted earlier and as I said, all references to infinity are simply just an illusion. The scan blatantly says: "She knew it was illusion, that it was a trick of her perception caused by the moment they entered hyperspace..."

These are easily the most direct quotes you have provided and they do seem to imply that hyperspace, as a totality, is infinite. However, nothing here suggests that individual hyperspace lanes are infinite, nor do they imply that ships travelling through hyperspace travel an infinite distance.

Just because hyperspace is infinite in size, doesn't make anything travelling through it infinite speed. For that to be the case, a ship would have to travel across the entirety of hyperspace itself, which as far as I am aware, has never happened.

Also, as I explained earlier, while hyperspace is its own separate dimension, coordinates in hyperspace directly correlate to coordinates in real space, so if ships were travelling infinite distances in hyperspace, then that would suggest that they're travelling infinite distances in real space, making the galaxy infinite in size, which is very clearly isn't.

 

[god_cat]

I am not questioning that NJO Luke, even without Oneness, is superior to the likes of NJO Saba and any other Jedi at the time, what I am questioning is Luke being 1-C in his fight against Shimrra. Luke's current 1-C rating comes from his FOTJ-era and you have provided no reasonings for why NJO Luke should scale to his FOTJ self. Even the LOTF quote you posted seems to imply LOTF Luke >> NJO Luke.

Plus, Jaina witnessed "Oneness" Luke fight Shimrra in TUF, and so wouldn't her LOTF quote imply LOTF Luke > TUF Luke. If so, this seems to further disprove the notion that TUF Luke was in some sort of transcendental Oneness state if he seemingly surpassed it later in life.

Also, I just realised that Luke has a Dark Empire key and a FOTJ key, but no key/s for anything in between. Someone should really update Luke's profile.


I never argued against this.


Not a single one of the scans you posted says anything even remotely similar to this.



This just refers to Hyperspace as "endless", a vague descriptor by itself.



This is the same scan you posted earlier and as I said, all references to infinity are simply just an illusion. The scan blatantly says: "She knew it was illusion, that it was a trick of her perception caused by the moment they entered hyperspace..."


These are easily the most direct quotes you have provided and they do seem to imply that hyperspace, as a totality, is infinite. However, nothing here suggests that individual hyperspace lanes are infinite, nor do they imply that ships travelling through hyperspace travel an infinite distance.

Just because hyperspace is infinite in size, doesn't make anything travelling through it infinite speed. For that to be the case, a ship would have to travel across the entirety of hyperspace itself, which as far as I am aware, has never happened.

Also, as I explained earlier, while hyperspace is its own separate dimension, coordinates in hyperspace directly correlate to coordinates in real space, so if ships were travelling infinite distances in hyperspace, then that would suggest that they're travelling infinite distances in real space, making the galaxy infinite in size, which is very clearly isn't.

my point to you is that luke's power has changed more than it has increased, the way he uses it has changed and the biggest proof of that is his view on the TUF faith after njo. I also think that names like Shimrra are comparable to caedus.

And finally, the panels I threw at you are literally talking about the infinity of hyperspace tunnels.

 

[god_cat]

Bump

 

[RetroWeeeb]

my point to you is that luke's power has changed more than it has increased, the way he uses it has changed and the biggest proof of that is his view on the TUF faith after njo. I also think that names like Shimrra are comparable to caedus.

I'm not saying that NJO Luke can't be/isn't 1-C, just that I don't believe you have provided sufficient reason as to such. As per Luke's current profile, only his FOTJ-era self is considered 1-C. For any previous iteration of Luke to be 1-C, you would have to get that accepted in a CRT.

Also, the quote you posted was comparing LOTF to NJO Luke and would thus have no bearing on FOTJ Luke's abilities compared to his past.

And finally, the panels I threw at you are literally talking about the infinity of hyperspace tunnels.

Your first scan used a vague descriptor of "endless" which can just mean "really big", not necessarily infinite
Your second scan literally states, verbatim, that the "infinity" described is an illusion
Your third and fourth scans are the only ones that directly refer to hyperspace as infinite.

Even then, you have provided no proof that individual ships travel infinite distances when traversing through hyperspace. As I have explained, and you have failed/refused to refute, travelling an infinite distance in hyperspace correlates to travelling an infinite distance in real space, which is clearly not happening.

Also, I have 2 questions about the final scan you sent.

1. What is meant by "because each lane, as far as we can tell, its own distance plane of existence"? Do you have any more context behind this scan to explain what this means exactly?

2. The scan refers to "Avar". Is this Avar Kriss from the High Republic? I don't know anyone else in SW called Avar. If so, then I don't think that the scan can be used for legends material as it is specifically made for Disney Canon.

 

[Abu2411]

2. The scan refers to "Avar". Is this Avar Kriss from the High Republic? I don't know anyone else in SW called Avar. If so, then I don't think that the scan can be used for legends material as it is specifically made for Disney Canon.

Yes, it's from the High Republic.

 

[RetroWeeeb]

Yes, it's from the High Republic.

Thank you. In that case, I don't think it can be used for Legends stuff

 

[god_cat]

I'm not saying that NJO Luke can't be/isn't 1-C, just that I don't believe you have provided sufficient reason as to such. As per Luke's current profile, only his FOTJ-era self is considered 1-C. For any previous iteration of Luke to be 1-C, you would have to get that accepted in a CRT.

Also, the quote you posted was comparing LOTF to NJO Luke and would thus have no bearing on FOTJ Luke's abilities compared to his past.

Your first scan used a vague descriptor of "endless" which can just mean "really big", not necessarily infinite
Your second scan literally states, verbatim, that the "infinity" described is an illusion
Your third and fourth scans are the only ones that directly refer to hyperspace as infinite.

Even then, you have provided no proof that individual ships travel infinite distances when traversing through hyperspace. As I have explained, and you have failed/refused to refute, travelling an infinite distance in hyperspace correlates to travelling an infinite distance in real space, which is clearly not happening.

Also, I have 2 questions about the final scan you sent.

1. What is meant by "because each lane, as far as we can tell, its own distance plane of existence"? Do you have any more context behind this scan to explain what this means exactly?

2. The scan refers to "Avar". Is this Avar Kriss from the High Republic? I don't know anyone else in SW called Avar. If so, then I don't think that the scan can be used for legends material as it is specifically made for Disney Canon.

I didn't know this was canon content sorry I will answer your other questions later

 

[RetroWeeeb]

I didn't know this was canon content sorry I will answer your other questions later

No worries, mistakes happen.

 

[god_cat]

I'm not saying that NJO Luke can't be/isn't 1-C, just that I don't believe you have provided sufficient reason as to such. As per Luke's current profile, only his FOTJ-era self is considered 1-C. For any previous iteration of Luke to be 1-C, you would have to get that accepted in a CRT.

Also, the quote you posted was comparing LOTF to NJO Luke and would thus have no bearing on FOTJ Luke's abilities compared to his past.

Your first scan used a vague descriptor of "endless" which can just mean "really big", not necessarily infinite
Your second scan literally states, verbatim, that the "infinity" described is an illusion
Your third and fourth scans are the only ones that directly refer to hyperspace as infinite.

Even then, you have provided no proof that individual ships travel infinite distances when traversing through hyperspace. As I have explained, and you have failed/refused to refute, travelling an infinite distance in hyperspace correlates to travelling an infinite distance in real space, which is clearly not happening.

Also, I have 2 questions about the final scan you sent.

1. What is meant by "because each lane, as far as we can tell, its own distance plane of existence"? Do you have any more context behind this scan to explain what this means exactly?

2. The scan refers to "Avar". Is this Avar Kriss from the High Republic? I don't know anyone else in SW called Avar. If so, then I don't think that the scan can be used for legends material as it is specifically made for Disney Canon.

First of all sorry for the long wait, basically what I want to say is that oneness luke's power should be above the base form in FOTJ era, unfortunately I don't have any conclusive proof for that right now but we can imply it because he can match the likes of shimrra who can one hit jedis like jacen solo who can be stronger than jedis of that era and even saba can kill a technically weakened abeloth in avatar bodies.

 

[god_cat]

Bump

 

[god_cat]

Bump

 

[RetroWeeeb]

First of all sorry for the long wait,

It's cool.

oneness luke's power should be above the base form in FOTJ era, unfortunately I don't have any conclusive proof for that right now

This here is the main issue then. If you can't prove Oneness NJO Luke > FOTJ Luke, then you can't give Onimi 1-C. Especially since it isn't even full Oneness, and more so just a highly focused state.

he can match the likes of shimrra who can one hit jedis like jacen solo who can be stronger than jedis of that era

Are you trying to say that NJO Jacen > FOTJ Jedi or NJO Jedi? Either way, I don't get why this is relevant. The only 1-C Jedi in any era is Luke, so one-shoting Jacen is completely meaningless.

and even saba can kill a technically weakened abeloth in avatar bodies.

As I said previously, since Abeloth's avatars were weakened, we can't prove that they were 1-C, and thus neither is Saba.
Also, you would have to provide proof that NJO Luke / Shimrra > FOTJ Saba. I'm not saying that they aren't stronger than her, but you would have to substantiate this claim before adding it to the profiles.

 

[Abu2411]

Are you trying to say that NJO Jacen > FOTJ Jedi or NJO Jedi? Either way, I don't get why this is relevant. The only 1-C Jedi in any era is Luke, so one-shoting Jacen is completely meaningless.

As I said previously, since Abeloth's avatars were weakened, we can't prove that they were 1-C, and thus neither is Saba

Sort of unrelated, but there's like 3 Lost Tribe members who may scale to Luke. Sarasu Taalon fights him more than once iirc (post-pool Taalon also has a statement that he was weakened actually, since the transformation was never complete if I remember)

Darish Vol is explicitly stated to have much the power of Luke himself. I think he harmed Abeloth in some way before she destroyed Tahv.

Then there is also Ivaar Workan who had a "desperate and well matched" fight against Luke.

It's been months since I read Fate of the Jedi so I might be misremembering some stuff.

 

[god_cat]

It's cool.

This here is the main issue then. If you can't prove Oneness NJO Luke > FOTJ Luke, then you can't give Onimi 1-C. Especially since it isn't even full Oneness, and more so just a highly focused state.

Are you trying to say that NJO Jacen > FOTJ Jedi or NJO Jedi? Either way, I don't get why this is relevant. The only 1-C Jedi in any era is Luke, so one-shoting Jacen is completely meaningless.

As I said previously, since Abeloth's avatars were weakened, we can't prove that they were 1-C, and thus neither is Saba.
Also, you would have to provide proof that NJO Luke / Shimrra > FOTJ Saba. I'm not saying that they aren't stronger than her, but you would have to substantiate this claim before adding it to the profiles.

Sorry again for the bad grammar, but there is a subject I am curious about, what is your suggestion for this title, that is, where do you think onimi should be scaled?

 

[RetroWeeeb]

Snip

Yeah I know about the Lost Tribe stuff. What I meant was that the only 1-C Jedi/Sith currently accepted are Luke and Krayt, considering that the Lost Tribe members you mentioned don't have profiles.
If they were to ever receive profiles, then yeah, Darish Vol would certainly scale to Luke due to the statement you mentioned, which actually came from Abeloth herself. I think Sarasu and Ivar would likely scale as well, but I'd have to reread their fights in FOTJ.

Sorry again for the bad grammar, but there is a subject I am curious about, what is your suggestion for this title, that is, where do you think onimi should be scaled?

Don't worry about the bad grammar, you're good. As for where I think Onimi should be scaled, well...

So I just went and reread some sections of TUF, and these are some key points that I found:

1. It should be mentioned that while Onimi is "pound for pound" more powerful than Jacen, his "true potency" laid in his abilities to amplify his body's electric current and to create deadly toxins. So he isn't a purely AP based fighter like Shimrra.

2. Onimi's control over Shimrra is purely telepathic. At no point (from what I could find) is Onimi's control over Shimrra ever said to be due to Onimi being more powerful in anything outside of telepathy. By that I mean that Onimi's telepathic abilities could simply be far beyond his combative abilities. So I do not believe this should be used as an AP justification

3. Onimi himself believes that he had grown beyond the control of the Yuuzhan Vong gods (who he correlated with Jedi like Jaina, Jacen, and Luke).

4. Easily overpowers Jaina

5. Is said to have "awesome powers", with Jacen realising if he were to win, he would have to turn himself over to the Force

6. In Balance Point, Jacen has a vision where he sees Luke and Shimrra fighting on top of the galaxy. When Jacen fails to catch Luke's lightsaber, the balance of the galaxy is said to rapidly tilt towards darkness as "a dark, deadly tempest gathered around the alien warriors (Yuuzhan Vong)", before the galaxy itself falls into complete darkness.
In TUF, it is stated that Onimi was the weight that tipped the balance of the galaxy towards darkness in his vision, but Jacen's Oneness state made Onimi's "mass" insignificant (implying that the ability to tip the scales is related to power).

Therefore, I think Onimi's AP should look something like:

Attack Potency: At least Planet level (Easily overpowered Jaina in their encounter, ripping her lightsaber out of her hands and throwing her across the floor. Is considered to be physically more powerful than Jacen and matched him in a clash), possibly Solar System level (Believes himself to have grown beyond the control of the Yun'o gods, who he associates with Jedi such as Jacen, Jaina, and Luke Skywalker. Is considered to be the weight that tipped the scales of balance in the galaxy towards darkness in Jacen's vision, overwhelming the counterweight of Luke Skywalker's light)

Due to his lack of actual feats, I don't think we should scale Onimi directly to Shimrra, but I do think his general portrayal is worthy of a "possibly" rating.

I also have some issues with Onimi's Abilities and Resistances, but I'll get to those in a later post

 

[god_cat]

Yeah I know about the Lost Tribe stuff. What I meant was that the only 1-C Jedi/Sith currently accepted are Luke and Krayt, considering that the Lost Tribe members you mentioned don't have profiles.
If they were to ever receive profiles, then yeah, Darish Vol would certainly scale to Luke due to the statement you mentioned, which actually came from Abeloth herself. I think Sarasu and Ivar would likely scale as well, but I'd have to reread their fights in FOTJ.


Don't worry about the bad grammar, you're good. As for where I think Onimi should be scaled, well...

So I just went and reread some sections of TUF, and these are some key points that I found:

1. It should be mentioned that while Onimi is "pound for pound" more powerful than Jacen, his "true potency" laid in his abilities to amplify his body's electric current and to create deadly toxins. So he isn't a purely AP based fighter like Shimrra.

2. Onimi's control over Shimrra is purely telepathic. At no point (from what I could find) is Onimi's control over Shimrra ever said to be due to Onimi being more powerful in anything outside of telepathy. By that I mean that Onimi's telepathic abilities could simply be far beyond his combative abilities. So I do not believe this should be used as an AP justification

3. Onimi himself believes that he had grown beyond the control of the Yuuzhan Vong gods (who he correlated with Jedi like Jaina, Jacen, and Luke).

4. Easily overpowers Jaina

5. Is said to have "awesome powers", with Jacen realising if he were to win, he would have to turn himself over to the Force

6. In Balance Point, Jacen has a vision where he sees Luke and Shimrra fighting on top of the galaxy. When Jacen fails to catch Luke's lightsaber, the balance of the galaxy is said to rapidly tilt towards darkness as "a dark, deadly tempest gathered around the alien warriors (Yuuzhan Vong)", before the galaxy itself falls into complete darkness.
In TUF, it is stated that Onimi was the weight that tipped the balance of the galaxy towards darkness in his vision, but Jacen's Oneness state made Onimi's "mass" insignificant (implying that the ability to tip the scales is related to power).

Therefore, I think Onimi's AP should look something like:

Due to his lack of actual feats, I don't think we should scale Onimi directly to Shimrra, but I do think his general portrayal is worthy of a "possibly" rating.

I also have some issues with Onimi's Abilities and Resistances, but I'll get to those in a later post

thank you in advance for all your help

 

[god_cat]

Yeah I know about the Lost Tribe stuff. What I meant was that the only 1-C Jedi/Sith currently accepted are Luke and Krayt, considering that the Lost Tribe members you mentioned don't have profiles.
If they were to ever receive profiles, then yeah, Darish Vol would certainly scale to Luke due to the statement you mentioned, which actually came from Abeloth herself. I think Sarasu and Ivar would likely scale as well, but I'd have to reread their fights in FOTJ.


Don't worry about the bad grammar, you're good. As for where I think Onimi should be scaled, well...

So I just went and reread some sections of TUF, and these are some key points that I found:

1. It should be mentioned that while Onimi is "pound for pound" more powerful than Jacen, his "true potency" laid in his abilities to amplify his body's electric current and to create deadly toxins. So he isn't a purely AP based fighter like Shimrra.

2. Onimi's control over Shimrra is purely telepathic. At no point (from what I could find) is Onimi's control over Shimrra ever said to be due to Onimi being more powerful in anything outside of telepathy. By that I mean that Onimi's telepathic abilities could simply be far beyond his combative abilities. So I do not believe this should be used as an AP justification

3. Onimi himself believes that he had grown beyond the control of the Yuuzhan Vong gods (who he correlated with Jedi like Jaina, Jacen, and Luke).

4. Easily overpowers Jaina

5. Is said to have "awesome powers", with Jacen realising if he were to win, he would have to turn himself over to the Force

6. In Balance Point, Jacen has a vision where he sees Luke and Shimrra fighting on top of the galaxy. When Jacen fails to catch Luke's lightsaber, the balance of the galaxy is said to rapidly tilt towards darkness as "a dark, deadly tempest gathered around the alien warriors (Yuuzhan Vong)", before the galaxy itself falls into complete darkness.
In TUF, it is stated that Onimi was the weight that tipped the balance of the galaxy towards darkness in his vision, but Jacen's Oneness state made Onimi's "mass" insignificant (implying that the ability to tip the scales is related to power).

Therefore, I think Onimi's AP should look something like:

Due to his lack of actual feats, I don't think we should scale Onimi directly to Shimrra, but I do think his general portrayal is worthy of a "possibly" rating.

I also have some issues with Onimi's Abilities and Resistances, but I'll get to those in a later post

what do you think about the profile as it is now

Onimi (Star Wars)

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[RetroWeeeb]

thank you in advance for all your help

No problem. Star wars needs some more love on this site

what do you think about the profile as it is now

Still a few things that I want to comment on, but I'll break these down into sections

Spoiler: Abilities and Resistances

Regeneration (Low-Mid onimi were able to withstand self-produced toxins and paralyzing poisons for a certain period of time and correct body deformities)

This isn't Low-Mid regen as Onimi isn't regenerating any lost limbs. This more so describes Mid-Low Regen. Also, withstanding toxins and poisons isn't regeneration, just a form of limited resistance and even then, the toxins were clearly having an affect on him. I also don't even know if Onimi should have this in the first place as he's never shown using it beyond this one instance and even then, it's ambiguous as to what causes his deformities to fix themselves. Maybe Limited Regeneration? IDK

Technology Manipulation (onimi was completely connected to shimrra's fortress, where he could manipulate life support units, fire pods and fly ships, and after his death the fortress would continue to self-destruct.)

Very minor nit pick, but since Vong tech is biotech based, this should likely be "Biotechnology Manipulation", which while not an ability itself, it can just link to both Technology Manip and Biological Manip pages.

• Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1 onimi could interact with the Full oneness jacen, an abstract and metaphysical entity)

Jacen undergoing a "metaphysical transformation" is not nearly enough evidence to assert that his Oneness state makes him an abstract, conceptual entity. Especially since the novel itself doesn't describe it in such a way, it is only ever said that his body became a vessel for the Force, not that his body itself underwent any sort of major change (other than the glowing of course).

• Existence Erasure (During his encounter with Onimi Jacen, his attacks were directed towards him and as a result he was reduced to an infinitesimal being and nothingness)

In the very scans you linked, it describes Onimi dissolving into a "puddle of foul hydrocarbons". So clearly his existence isn't being erased at any point and the "reduced to nothingness" scan is just hyperbole.

• Invulnerability (Yuuzhan vong can skip traditional force abilities due to status)

This should be changed to "Limited Invulnerability" as they only resist Force based powers, not any kind of damage.

Limited Reality Warping (Onimi was able to control the environment of the living ship, but after his death the temperature and colors in and around the ship's units began to fade.)

This isn't reality warping, this is just due to Onimi being biologically connected to the ship, as you mentioned in his "technology manipulation" ability. The ship loosing colour and temperature is likely just due to the ship dying and entering self-destruct state, not an inherent ability of Onimi to warp reality. Often in writing, when characters/things die, they are described as loosing colour/growing pale.

Mind Manipulation,Matter Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation and many, many others (Completely unable to be affected by any Force powers due to his status as a Yuuzhan Vong)

I know these resistances are just copied and pasted from Shimrra's profile, but his profile is hella outdated and you shouldn't be able to just write "and many, many others", you should instead list the exact Force abilities that he resists.
However, since that is what is accepted on Shimrra's profile, idk how prevalent it is for this specific CRT. Will def need to be tackled in the future. Might be fine for now.

Spoiler: Stat Stuff

As you know, I disagree with the infinite speed rating, but I won't go over that again. Although I will say that you don't need both speed ratings, just one or the other as Onimi only has 1 key.

and also oneness was referred to as physically stronger than jacen's avatar body)

1. I'm assuming you meant that Onimi was physically stronger than Oneness Jacen
2. I don't believe that it is currently accepted that Oneness users have an "avatar body" and "true self", so you would need a CRT for this
3. Onimi is never referred to as stronger than Oneness Jacen. The "pound for pound" statement comes before the two of them clash and Jacen enters into his Oneness state. That's just the order of events of the fight. Jacen is quite objectively not in a state of Oneness when this statement is made

He was also able to create earthquakes that threatened to destroy the Citadel district.

The earthquakes were due to Onimi being connected to the ship, which has nothing to do with his striking strength but instead his hax

He was superior to Shimrra, the most powerful Vong of his time.

At no point is Onimi referred to as physically stronger than Shimrra. If he is, please provide a scan. Onimi is mainly a hax fighter.

(It should be comparable to Shimrra who can exchange punches with Luke)

Once again, why should Onimi have comparable dura to Shimrra?

Spoiler: Formatting Issues/Grammar Stuff

Tier: 5-B | 4-B

The | is used for when a character has more than 1 key, as Onimi only has 1 then it is unneeded. The Tier should just match the AP, so it would read

Tier: At least 5-B, possibly 4-B

Same thing with the AP section, the "|" isn't necessary in "At least Planet level | possibly Solar System level" it should just read

Attack Potency: At least Planet level (text), possibly Solar System level (text)

Same thing for the Striking Strength and Durability sections.

possibly Solar System level (He had control over Shimrra, which was compared to Onimi Sidious

I think this should read "Darth Sidious" instead of "Onimi Sidious". Also a good idea to link to Sidious' page as well for context.

Biological Manipulation, Matter Manipulation (Onimi's true power lay in her ability to control matter, molecules and compounds on a subatomic scale within her body and transmit them through her curved yellow fingernails, teeth, blood, sweat, saliva and breath, making them lethally corrosive and even infinitesimally small to the enemy's state of being.)

Onimi isn't a girl, so it should say "his ability" and "his body", not "her".

I've already mentioned the speed rating. The | between FTL+ and Infinite isn't needed. Just pick one rating.

and also oneness was referred to as physically stronger than jacen's avatar body)

I've brought up my disagreement with this referring to Oneness Jacn, but this section could also be rewritten to be clearer, for example

Lifting Strength: At least Superhuman (he was able to face inexperienced but powerful jedis like Jacen and Jaina, being capable of outmaneuver Jaina in a physical fight and was directly stated to be "pound for pound" stronger than Jacen)

or something along those lines.

Regeneration
Technology Manipulation
Conceptual Manipulation
Lifting Strength:

In these sections, character names are spelt with a lowercase instead of an uppercase (E.g. you've written onimi instead of Onimi).

Striking Strength: At least Planet level (He knocked out a powerful jedi like Jaina Solo in an instant.) | possibly Solar System level He was also able to create earthquakes that threatened to destroy the Citadel district.

This section is missing a closing bracket at the end.

Range: At least extended melee range physically | Hundreds of Meters (with its control over the citadel)

Once again, the | divider is not necessary and "its" should likely be "his". Instead is should read

Range: At least extended melee range physically, up to Hundreds of Meters with Biotechnology Manipulation (Is merged with and has full control over the Citadel)

I think that's just about everything I have to say about the profile. Sorry it ended up so long.

 

[god_cat]

I edited a little more, there are still a few points I disagree with you, but I can fix them for later.