Yhwach And Aizen Speed Upgrade.

[MrVenomYTX]

Ichigo, Aizen and Yhwach’s Speed Comparison

On the main wiki Ichigo is currently 122x FTL and Yhwach and Aizen are much lower but I disagree using the following manga panels

In chapter 678 Yhwach used the almighty here
between(these panels)to break Ichigo’s True Bankai quick enough that Ichigo couldn’t perceive him doing it and he was able to grab the physical blade and bring it back to himself without Ichigo being able to perceive that either so Yhwach should be faster or atleast equal to his speed. (in these panels here) we can see yhwach casually blitzing ichigo aswell.

In chapter 683 when Renji decided to attack Yhwach then Yhwach decides to crush Renji
here however, Aizen manages to move in place to stand before Renji meaning he can react to Yhwach whereas Ichigo gets perception blitzed (said panels)

This concludes that Aizen and Yhwach should at minimum be equal to Ichigo in speed if not possibly faster.

Agree: @TheReal7Cris
@Lloydblitzed

Disagree: @Deceived3596 @Arc7Kuroi @Damage3245
@UchihaSlayer96
Inconclusive:

 

[BreezeHM]

Include the scans, not just the chapter numbers.

 

[MrVenomYTX]

Include the scans, not just the chapter numbers.

I’m aware, the links aren’t working though

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I’m aware, the links aren’t working though

Include the scans, not just the chapter numbers.

I got you

In chapter 678 Yhwach used the almighty here
between pages 3-8 to break Ichigo’s True Bankai quick enough that Ichigo couldn’t perceive him doing it and he was able to grab the physical blade and bring it back to himself without Ichigo being able to perceive that either so Yhwach should be faster or atleast equal to his speed

Scan for this

In chapter 683 when Renji decided to attack Yhwach here (Page 4) then Yhwach decides to crush Renji

Scan for this

here (Page 5) Aizen manages to move in place to stand before Renji meaning he can react to Yhwach whereas Ichigo gets perception blitzed

This concludes that Aizen and Yhwach should at minimum be equal to Ichigo in speed if not faster.

Scan for this

 

[MrVenomYTX]

Include the scans, not just the chapter numbers.

issue should be fixed now

 

[TheReal7Cris]

Ichigo, Aizen and Yhwach’s Speed Comparison

On the main wiki Ichigo is currently 122x FTL and Yhwach and Aizen are much lower but I disagree using the following manga panels

In chapter 678 Yhwach used the almighty here
between(these panels)to break Ichigo’s True Bankai quick enough that Ichigo couldn’t perceive him doing it and he was able to grab the physical blade and bring it back to himself without Ichigo being able to perceive that either so Yhwach should be faster or atleast equal to his speed. (in these panels here) we can see yhwach casually blitzing ichigo aswell.

In chapter 683 when Renji decided to attack Yhwach then Yhwach decides to crush Renji
here however, Aizen manages to move in place to stand before Renji meaning he can react to Yhwach whereas Ichigo gets perception blitzed (said panels)

This concludes that Aizen and Yhwach should at minimum be equal to Ichigo in speed if not possibly faster.

Agree:

Disagree:

Inconclusive:

looks fine but i have a problem with something. (scan) yhwach himself states that he broke it through the future, unless we say he couldve used the almighty fast enough before ichigo could even percieve it, i dont see how it correlates to his actual speed, however all the other panels seem fine to me. i agree.

 

[MrVenomYTX]

looks fine but i have a problem with something. (scan) yhwach himself states that he broke it through the future, unless we say he couldve used the almighty fast enough before ichigo could even percieve it, i dont see how it correlates to his actual speed, however all the other panels seem fine to me. i agree.

He broke it in the future but he still managed to grab part of the blade without Ichigo even realizing he moved from his spot so Yhwach essentially perception blitzed him

 

[TheReal7Cris]

He broke it in the future but he still managed to grab part of the blade without Ichigo even realizing he moved from his spot so Yhwach essentially perception blitzed him

seems reasonable, i agree with the update

 

[Lloydblitzed]

looks fine but i have a problem with something. (scan) yhwach himself states that he broke it through the future, unless we say he couldve used the almighty fast enough before ichigo could even percieve it, i dont see how it correlates to his actual speed, however all the other panels seem fine to me. i agree.

He'd still need to move as fast to avoid Ichigo's attack. Agree with the thread

 

[MrVenomYTX]

He'd still need to move as fast to avoid Ichigo's attack. Agree with the thread

Counted

 

[Deceived3596]

To address the first premise: It's very unlikely that Yhwach made any physical movements during that event when the context of it implies the opposite, explicitly. Yhwach specifically says he utilized The Almighty to break Ichigo's Bankai in the future, and after that action occurred, we saw it in Yhwach's hand. We know that Yhwach can dictate the place of objects with his Almighty, with it being explained that he was altering Fate that entire fight, so him doing the same with Ichigo's blade is a completely reasonable assertion to make. And I believe it's the more likely assertion to make as I laid out above. Additionally, Orihime can react to Yhwach's physical movements, while she was actually perception blitz by Hollowfied Shikai Ichigo's movements. Indicating the exact opposite of what is being proposed here.

To address the second premise: This is taken out of context. Yhwach himself explicitly states he believes that it was in fact Ichigo who had his hand severed by himself and not Renji, who was actually sent back by his initial attack. It is later revealed by Aizen that he was merely just casting Illusions on Yhwach's perception (which is also confirmed to be true by Yhwach himself) with Kyoka Suigetsu, which is also later confirmed true by Ichigo, whose arm is still intact, cutting through Yhwach from behind.

In short: I disagree with the upgrades based on these reasons.

 

[MrVenomYTX]

To address the first premise: It's very unlikely that Yhwach made any physical movements during that event when the context of it implies the opposite, explicitly. Yhwach specifically says he utilized The Almighty to break Ichigo's Bankai in the future, and after that action occurred, we saw it in Yhwach's hand. We know that Yhwach can dictate the place of objects with his Almighty, with it being explained that he was altering Fate that entire fight, so him doing the same with Ichigo's blade is a completely reasonable assertion to make. And I believe it's the more likely assertion to make as I laid out above. Additionally, Orihime can react to Yhwach's physical movements, while she was actually perception blitz by Hollowfied Shikai Ichigo's movements. Indicating the exact opposite of what is being proposed here.

To address the second premise: This is taken out of context. Yhwach himself explicitly states he believes that it was in fact Ichigo who had his hand severed by himself and not Renji, who was actually sent back by his initial attack. It is later revealed by Aizen that he was merely just casting Illusions on Yhwach's perception (which is also confirmed to be true by Yhwach himself) with Kyoka Suigetsu, which is also later confirmed true by Ichigo, whose arm is still intact, cutting through Yhwach from behind.

In short: I disagree with the upgrades based on these reasons.

When you say Yhwach can dictate the placement of objects with his almighty when it’s very clearly shown here that Yhwach only broke Tensa Zangetsu and not HOS in the future
And we see here that Yhwach breaks HOS then appears behind Ichigo and proceeds to attack him all while Ichigo can’t react

And for the second premise I really don’t see your point since the point was that Aizen could react to Yhwach’s attack and it was never explicitly stated he swapped Renji and Ichigo was it not?
All we know he used KS on Yhwach at some point and we’ve seen it when he pretends to be Ichigo so you steered off topic for no reason

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Count me as disagreeing for Deceived’s reasoning

 

[Damage3245]

I'm also disagreeing for Deceived's reasons.

 

[MrVenomYTX]

To address the first premise: It's very unlikely that Yhwach made any physical movements during that event when the context of it implies the opposite, explicitly. Yhwach specifically says he utilized The Almighty to break Ichigo's Bankai in the future, and after that action occurred, we saw it in Yhwach's hand. We know that Yhwach can dictate the place of objects with his Almighty, with it being explained that he was altering Fate that entire fight, so him doing the same with Ichigo's blade is a completely reasonable assertion to make. And I believe it's the more likely assertion to make as I laid out above. Additionally, Orihime can react to Yhwach's physical movements, while she was actually perception blitz by Hollowfied Shikai Ichigo's movements. Indicating the exact opposite of what is being proposed here.

To address the second premise: This is taken out of context. Yhwach himself explicitly states he believes that it was in fact Ichigo who had his hand severed by himself and not Renji, who was actually sent back by his initial attack. It is later revealed by Aizen that he was merely just casting Illusions on Yhwach's perception (which is also confirmed to be true by Yhwach himself) with Kyoka Suigetsu, which is also later confirmed true by Ichigo, whose arm is still intact, cutting through Yhwach from behind.

In short: I disagree with the upgrades based on these reasons.

I don’t understand your argument

Count me as disagreeing for Deceived’s reasoning

Elaborate

 

[Hellscream]

I get the point that you're trying to make, however the speed you're talking about is achieved by Yhwach rewriting the future and actualizing it in the present.
It's currently accepted as pure hax
The TLDR is Ichigo can't perceive it, because it's instant, it has basically already happened

So im gonna have to disagree with your arguments in the thread as well

 

[MrVenomYTX]

I get the point that you're trying to make, however the speed you're talking about is achieved by Yhwach rewriting the future and actualizing it in the present.
It's currently accepted as pure hax
The TLDR is Ichigo can't perceive it, because it's instant, it has basically already happened

So im gonna have to disagree with your arguments in the thread as well

Did you read the what I said about Yhwach breaking HOS when he said he only broke Tensa Zangetsu

 

[Hellscream]

Did you read the what I said about Yhwach breaking HOS when he said he only broke Tensa Zangetsu

Yes, HoS breaking was also done by The Almighty which was clearly indicated

 

[MrVenomYTX]

Yes, HoS breaking was also done by The Almighty which was clearly indicated

He only stated he used the almighty to break Tensa Zangetsu not HOS

 

[MrVenomYTX]

I get the point that you're trying to make, however the speed you're talking about is achieved by Yhwach rewriting the future and actualizing it in the present.
It's currently accepted as pure hax
The TLDR is Ichigo can't perceive it, because it's instant, it has basically already happened

So im gonna have to disagree with your arguments in the thread as well

Yes, HoS breaking was also done by The Almighty which was clearly indicated

Also you’re forgetting how Ichigo couldn’t react to Yhwach either when he got behind him which I linked in one of
My previous replies

 

[Hellscream]

He only stated he used the almighty to break Tensa Zangetsu not HOS

He doesn't need to specifically state that he broke it with The Almighty, you can easily conclude that from the feat itself.
Ichigo's horn was broken the exact same way as his bankai was, which allows us to deduce that it was done through The Almighty.

And to your second comment, Yhwach appearing behind ichigo is also done through The Almighty which he perfectly showcased in the anime.

 

[MrVenomYTX]

He doesn't need to specifically state that he broke it with The Almighty, you can easily conclude that from the feat itself.
Ichigo's horn was broken the exact same way as his bankai was, which allows us to deduce that it was done through The Almighty.

And to your second comment, Yhwach appearing behind ichigo is also done through The Almighty which he perfectly showcased in the anime.

Yhwach broke the horn off and managed to get behind Ichigo and strike him without Ichigo being able to react
I’m not sure how you’re concluding that he used the almighty to go behind Ichigo
You can argue that he used it to break HOS but u can also argue against it
But he still was able to get behind Ichigo and attack without Ichigo being able to react

Literally when did he showcase this in the anime you’re not giving a reference

 

[Hellscream]

He did it against Ichigo as well

 

[Deceived3596]

When you say Yhwach can dictate the placement of objects with his almighty when it’s very clearly shown here that Yhwach only broke Tensa Zangetsu and not HOS in the future
And we see here that Yhwach breaks HOS then appears behind Ichigo and proceeds to attack him all while Ichigo can’t react

In the second scan, he wouldn't have brought up anything dealing with Horn of Salvation in the first place because that event occurs after the statement is made. It wouldn't make syntactical sense to bring up a future event, he hasn't already actualized, as if it has already occurred in his purview.

All of that doesn't prove he's physically moving in a way that would allow him to scale to the speed of Hollowfied Bankai Ichigo. Since we are given context that he is utilizing his Almighty to manipulate the future(s) in this fight, and that prior feats have him being relative with a slower Ichigo, it's more probable to say he's just manipulating future possibilities to allow his movements to supersede Ichigo's own by instantly teleporting himself to him without leaving anything measurable behind that Ichigo could sense and react to, like his Reiatsu signature; which is heavily indicated as being the case by Ichigo's own internal monologue.

And for the second premise I really don’t see your point since the point was that Aizen could react to Yhwach’s attack and it was never explicitly stated he swapped Renji and Ichigo was it not?
All we know he used KS on Yhwach at some point and we’ve seen it when he pretends to be Ichigo so you steered off topic for no reason

Aizen and Yhwach possessing similar speed was never in contention here. You're under the assumption Yhwach is relative with HB Ichigo, while I agree with the current scaling that he isn't. Until you can prove the former (which I don't believe you have), this is meaningless to the debate about.

As for the secondary claim, Yhwach himself says as much when he states that it was Ichigo who was actually dismembered by him, while Renji was sent flying back with his first attack. We know that Aizen was specifically affecting his perception in this encounter, and that Aizen was the one who had his arm cleaved off. It was entirely an Illusion perpetuated by Kyoka Suigetsu.

This part of the conversation doesn't matter though, we're basically arguing over how we derive our scaling of Aizen to Yhwach, despite the fact we both agree Aizen is relative with Yhwach. It's a pointless debate. We both agree with the conclusion, but have different methods on how we reach that conclusion.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I disagree for Deceived's reasons as well.

 

[Johner2133451]

Speaking of speed upgrades, you should try use the calc regarding Yhwach's darkness covering soul society which gives mftl+ values

Does seem better than what being proposed here

 

[MrVenomYTX]

In the second scan, he wouldn't have brought up anything dealing with Horn of Salvation in the first place because that event occurs after the statement is made. It wouldn't make syntactical sense to bring up a future event, he hasn't already actualized, as if it has already occurred in his purview.

All of that doesn't prove he's physically moving in a way that would allow him to scale to the speed of Hollowfied Bankai Ichigo. Since we are given context that he is utilizing his Almighty to manipulate the future(s) in this fight, and that prior feats have him being relative with a slower Ichigo, it's more probable to say he's just manipulating future possibilities to allow his movements to supersede Ichigo's own by instantly teleporting himself to him without leaving anything measurable behind that Ichigo could sense and react to, like his Reiatsu signature; which is heavily indicated as being the case by Ichigo's own internal monologue.


Aizen and Yhwach possessing similar speed was never in contention here. You're under the assumption Yhwach is relative with HB Ichigo, while I agree with the current scaling that he isn't. Until you can prove the former (which I don't believe you have), this is meaningless to the debate about.

As for the secondary claim, Yhwach himself says as much when he states that it was Ichigo who was actually dismembered by him, while Renji was sent flying back with his first attack. We know that Aizen was specifically affecting his perception in this encounter, and that Aizen was the one who had his arm cleaved off. It was entirely an Illusion perpetuated by Kyoka Suigetsu.

This part of the conversation doesn't matter though, we're basically arguing over how we derive our scaling of Aizen to Yhwach, despite the fact we both agree Aizen is relative with Yhwach. It's a pointless debate. We both agree with the conclusion, but have different methods on how we reach that conclusion.

It wouldn’t of made sense for Yhwach to not break HOS the same time as he broke Ichigo’s TB you said the most probable cause would be him using his almighty to break Ichigo’s HOS but it dosen’t make sense to why he didn’t break HOS at the same time as his TB if he was using the almighty to break HOS also since he can see the future it’s most probably to assume he saw Ichigo’s next attack and moved accordingly as he said himself when he activated the almighty he’ll stop underestimating Ichigo and as far as we know he confirmed he broke Tensa Zangetsu with the almighty but didn’t confirm he used the almighty to break HOS and blitz Ichigo

In the second scan, he wouldn't have brought up anything dealing with Horn of Salvation in the first place because that event occurs after the statement is made. It wouldn't make syntactical sense to bring up a future event, he hasn't already actualized, as if it has already occurred in his purview.

All of that doesn't prove he's physically moving in a way that would allow him to scale to the speed of Hollowfied Bankai Ichigo. Since we are given context that he is utilizing his Almighty to manipulate the future(s) in this fight, and that prior feats have him being relative with a slower Ichigo, it's more probable to say he's just manipulating future possibilities to allow his movements to supersede Ichigo's own by instantly teleporting himself to him without leaving anything measurable behind that Ichigo could sense and react to, like his Reiatsu signature; which is heavily indicated as being the case by Ichigo's own internal monologue.


Aizen and Yhwach possessing similar speed was never in contention here. You're under the assumption Yhwach is relative with HB Ichigo, while I agree with the current scaling that he isn't. Until you can prove the former (which I don't believe you have), this is meaningless to the debate about.

As for the secondary claim, Yhwach himself says as much when he states that it was Ichigo who was actually dismembered by him, while Renji was sent flying back with his first attack. We know that Aizen was specifically affecting his perception in this encounter, and that Aizen was the one who had his arm cleaved off. It was entirely an Illusion perpetuated by Kyoka Suigetsu.

This part of the conversation doesn't matter though, we're basically arguing over how we derive our scaling of Aizen to Yhwach, despite the fact we both agree Aizen is relative with Yhwach. It's a pointless debate. We both agree with the conclusion, but have different methods on how we reach that conclusion.

In the second scan he didn’t deal with HOS yet which just further proves my point he only used the almighty to break Tensa Zangetsu not HOS in the future
It is implied here when he activates the almighty he’d stop underestimating Ichigo
Which means it would be much more likely and implied that he used the almighty to see Ichigo’s next attack and therefore he was able to blitz Ichigo since we literally see him move behind Ichigo and attack whereas Ichigo couldn’t react
Which is more or less implying he moved faster then Ichigo and used the almighty to see his next moves
Otherwise he would of broken TB and HOS at the same time like you said he was altering the future


And for the other part wasn’t it Aizen who used Kyokasuigetsu to make himself look like Ichigo and make it look like he got dismembered since he literally says “So you see me as Kurosaki Ichigo, Do You?”

 

[MrVenomYTX]

In the second scan, he wouldn't have brought up anything dealing with Horn of Salvation in the first place because that event occurs after the statement is made. It wouldn't make syntactical sense to bring up a future event, he hasn't already actualized, as if it has already occurred in his purview.

All of that doesn't prove he's physically moving in a way that would allow him to scale to the speed of Hollowfied Bankai Ichigo. Since we are given context that he is utilizing his Almighty to manipulate the future(s) in this fight, and that prior feats have him being relative with a slower Ichigo, it's more probable to say he's just manipulating future possibilities to allow his movements to supersede Ichigo's own by instantly teleporting himself to him without leaving anything measurable behind that Ichigo could sense and react to, like his Reiatsu signature; which is heavily indicated as being the case by Ichigo's own internal monologue.


Aizen and Yhwach possessing similar speed was never in contention here. You're under the assumption Yhwach is relative with HB Ichigo, while I agree with the current scaling that he isn't. Until you can prove the former (which I don't believe you have), this is meaningless to the debate about.

As for the secondary claim, Yhwach himself says as much when he states that it was Ichigo who was actually dismembered by him, while Renji was sent flying back with his first attack. We know that Aizen was specifically affecting his perception in this encounter, and that Aizen was the one who had his arm cleaved off. It was entirely an Illusion perpetuated by Kyoka Suigetsu.

This part of the conversation doesn't matter though, we're basically arguing over how we derive our scaling of Aizen to Yhwach, despite the fact we both agree Aizen is relative with Yhwach. It's a pointless debate. We both agree with the conclusion, but have different methods on how we reach that conclusion.

It wouldn’t of made sense for Yhwach to not break HOS the same time as he broke Ichigo’s TB you said the most probable cause would be him using his almighty to break Ichigo’s HOS but it dosen’t make sense to why he didn’t break HOS at the same time as his TB if he was using the almighty to break HOS also since he can see the future it’s most probably to assume he saw Ichigo’s next attack and moved accordingly as he said himself when he activated the almighty he’ll stop underestimating Ichigo and as far as we know he confirmed he broke Tensa Zangetsu with the almighty but didn’t confirm he used the almighty to break HOS and blitz Ichigo

In the second scan, he wouldn't have brought up anything dealing with Horn of Salvation in the first place because that event occurs after the statement is made. It wouldn't make syntactical sense to bring up a future event, he hasn't already actualized, as if it has already occurred in his purview.

All of that doesn't prove he's physically moving in a way that would allow him to scale to the speed of Hollowfied Bankai Ichigo. Since we are given context that he is utilizing his Almighty to manipulate the future(s) in this fight, and that prior feats have him being relative with a slower Ichigo, it's more probable to say he's just manipulating future possibilities to allow his movements to supersede Ichigo's own by instantly teleporting himself to him without leaving anything measurable behind that Ichigo could sense and react to, like his Reiatsu signature; which is heavily indicated as being the case by Ichigo's own internal monologue.


Aizen and Yhwach possessing similar speed was never in contention here. You're under the assumption Yhwach is relative with HB Ichigo, while I agree with the current scaling that he isn't. Until you can prove the former (which I don't believe you have), this is meaningless to the debate about.

As for the secondary claim, Yhwach himself says as much when he states that it was Ichigo who was actually dismembered by him, while Renji was sent flying back with his first attack. We know that Aizen was specifically affecting his perception in this encounter, and that Aizen was the one who had his arm cleaved off. It was entirely an Illusion perpetuated by Kyoka Suigetsu.

This part of the conversation doesn't matter though, we're basically arguing over how we derive our scaling of Aizen to Yhwach, despite the fact we both agree Aizen is relative with Yhwach. It's a pointless debate. We both agree with the conclusion, but have different methods on how we reach that conclusion.

In the second scan he didn’t deal with HOS yet which just further proves my point he only used the almighty to break Tensa Zangetsu not HOS in the future
It is implied here when he activates the almighty he’d stop underestimating Ichigo
Which means it would be much more likely and implied that he used the almighty to see Ichigo’s next attack and therefore he was able to blitz Ichigo since we literally see him move behind Ichigo and attack whereas Ichigo couldn’t react
Which is more or less implying he moved faster then Ichigo and used the almighty to see his next moves
Otherwise he would of broken TB and HOS at the same time like you said he was altering the future


And for the other part wasn’t it Aizen who used Kyokasuigetsu to make himself look like Ichigo and make it look like he got dismembered since he literally says “So you see me as Kurosaki Ichigo, Do You?”
But like you said we both agree Aizen is relative to Yhwach in speed so no point in arguing

 

[MrVenomYTX]

Speaking of speed upgrades, you should try use the calc regarding Yhwach's darkness covering soul society which gives mftl+ values

Does seem better than what being proposed here

Maybe but what’s your opinion about this?

 

[MrVenomYTX]

I disagree for Deceived's reasons as well.

Alright

 

[Johner2133451]

Maybe but what’s your opinion about this?

I'll agree with Hellscream

 

[MrVenomYTX]

He did it against Ichigo as well

Then wouldn’t that scale to his speed aswell? Or is that teleportation

And in the first one we literally see a split second before Yhwach moves meaning he’s faster then Ichibei’s perception

 

[Damage3245]

It wouldn’t of made sense for Yhwach to not break HOS the same time as he broke Ichigo’s TB

Why?

 

[MrVenomYTX]

Why?

Yhwach said himself he’d stop lowering his guard and underestimating Ichigo so why would he not break HOS the same time as he broke TB if that’s really the case
And we see in the first clip which Hellscream sends on Yhwach VS Ichibei that a split second before Ichibei attacks Yhwach and he manages to move so fast that Ichibei couldn’t percept him thanks to the almighty it makes more sense he did the same with Ichigo when breaking HOS and proceeds to move behind him so fast that Ichigo can’t percept then attacks all while Ichigo still can’t react

 

[Damage3245]

Yhwach said himself he’d stop lowering his guard and underestimating Ichigo so why would he not break HOS the same time as he broke TB if that’s really the case
And we see in the first clip which Hellscream sends on Yhwach VS Ichibei that a split second before Ichibei attacks Yhwach and he manages to move so fast that Ichibei couldn’t percept him thanks to the almighty it makes more sense he did the same with Ichigo when breaking HOS and proceeds to move behind him so fast that Ichigo can’t percept then attacks all while Ichigo still can’t react

Because he didn't need to.

 

[Nierre]

yeah deceived makes sense to me here though I have a question

All of that doesn't prove he's physically moving in a way that would allow him to scale to the speed of Hollowfied Bankai Ichigo. Since we are given context that he is utilizing his Almighty to manipulate the future(s) in this fight, and that prior feats have him being relative with a slower Ichigo, it's more probable to say he's just manipulating future possibilities to allow his movements to supersede Ichigo's own by instantly teleporting himself to him without leaving anything measurable behind that Ichigo could sense and react to, like his Reiatsu signature; which is heavily indicated as being the case by Ichigo's own internal monologue.

Are you saying that when Yhwach sliced Ichigo in the back, sending him flying, that was also him using The Almighty, and not him being too fast for Ichigo to react?

 

[MrVenomYTX]

yeah deceived makes sense to me here though I have a question

Are you saying that when Yhwach sliced Ichigo in the back, sending him flying, that was also him using The Almighty, and not him being too fast for Ichigo to react?

Look at the first video hellscream sent with Yhwach VS Ichibei you can see he was able to use the almighty to move faster then Ichibei’s perception and get behind him the same way Yhwach did to Ichigo when he attacked him from behind

 

[Nierre]

Look at the first video hellscream sent with Yhwach VS Ichibei you can see he was able to use the almighty to move faster then Ichibei’s perception and get behind him the same way Yhwach did to Ichigo when he attacked him from behind

I saw that and I agree he used The Almighty to appear behind Ichigo, but I'm talking about the action of swinging Ichigo. he was still able to swing at Ichigo before he could react to him

 

[MrVenomYTX]

I saw that and I agree he used The Almighty to appear behind Ichigo, but I'm talking about the action of swinging Ichigo. he was still able to swing at Ichigo before he could react to him

That’s also part of my original point why Yhwach > Aizen > Ichigo in speed or at the very least Yhwach > Ichigo in speed
So do u agree?

 

[SilentBob34]

I saw that and I agree he used The Almighty to appear behind Ichigo, but I'm talking about the action of swinging Ichigo. he was still able to swing at Ichigo before he could react to him

I’m pretty sure Ichigo having his bankai and Horn broken depowered him quite a bit so I don’t think Yhwach swinging at him before he could turn around is a valid feat to say he scales to a full powered Hos Bankai Ichigo