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Ben 10: Tier 4 Upgrade

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GeneralSol16 said:
Yes, ans that movie is canon.
So, OS Way Big and the Retaliator armor should be 4-A.

And for Ben weakest combat aliens, I kinda agree with them having ghe "Tier 4" as a possible rating, since even if they have fought Ben's heavy hitters or comparable fors, they are portrayed as being ridiculously weaker than Ben's powerhouses.

Kevin and Gwen should be Tire 4 tho, Kevin has been shown relatively comparable to Ben's heavy hitters such as Base Humongousaur and Diamondhead raw strength, as well as robots that Four Arms was able to fight in equal terms, although he is overall weaker.
Gwen should have a "Varies" rating, since her Shields durability and stability depends on her concentration and the amount of mana she puts on them, going from being destroyed by Kid Heatblast to enduring hits from Humongousaur.

There are other aliens capable of being on par with Hsaur, DH and 4A, so I'll out a list of who should definitely have a solid Tier 4-B rating.

  • Humongousaur.
  • Diamondhead.
  • Four Arms.
  • Cannonbolt.
  • Rath.
  • Shocksquatch.
  • NRG.
  • Armodrillo.
  • Water Hazard (durability)
  • Heatblast.
  • Gravattack.
  • Swampfire (OV form)
  • Non charged up Eatle.
  • Ball Weevil.
  • Feedback.
This lost refer clearly only to Teen Ben forms, and is based on not only the fights they had, but narratively how they're portrayed in the episode / series.
-
Click to expand...
If we have the proper fights to cite, Tier 4 Gwen and Kevin shouldn't be a problem.

I'm double checking the pages.

For example, Jetray has the following:

Solar System level (Can harm Spidermonkey and Humungousaur

Is Jetray blasting back Albedo Spidermonkey the only thing we can use to scale him?

Moving forward, we are citing episodes of these scaling fights.
 
Firestorm808 said:
Do we have the scaling chains that support this available to the users?
Click to expand...
Four Arms was able to keep up with Kevin 11, and threw Vilgax over his head when he tried restrained him.
Diamondhead could hurt Kevin 11, but was shown to be weaker than Four Arms and Steroids up Vilgax.
Cannonbolt demolished Kevin 11.
I think that's all the aliens that directly scaled to Vilgax.
 
Firestorm808 said:
If we have the proper fights to cite, Tier 4 Gwen and Kevin shouldn't be a problem.
Click to expand...
Kevin (Colossus) fought Diamondhead a handful of times.


And as you can see, Ben /Albedo were comparable to him physically, but they one shot him using constructs.

UA Kevin was also capable of harming Sunder, who was on equal ground with a non Momentum applied Ultimate Cannombolt, but when he rolled on him, he stomped him.

Firestorm808 said:
I'm double checking the pages.

For example, Jetray has the following:

Solar System level (Can harm Spidermonkey and Humungousaur

Is Jetray blasting back Albedo Spidermonkey the only thing we can use to scale him?
Click to expand...
Jetray was able to tackle him with enough force to disorientate Ben.
Firestorm808 said:
Moving forward, we are citing episodes of these scaling fights.
Click to expand...
They're a lot, some of them kinda consistent.
 
Firestorm808 said:
Ramming him at high speed should be fine.
Click to expand...
Then? What else is necessary to close this?

UAF Cast would downscale or upscale from Humongousaur, who is 1/10th of Ultimate Humongousaur.

OS Cast would scale to 1/10th of UAF Vilgax, since he was stated to be "10 times stronger" by Alien Force.

Way Big (OS) would scale to 4-A, since he was able to be on par with another adult To'kustar, albeit a little bit weaker.
 
GeneralSol16 said:
Then? What else is necessary to close this?

UAF Cast would downscale or upscale from Humongousaur, who is 1/10th of Ultimate Humongousaur.

OS Cast would scale to 1/10th of UAF Vilgax, since he was stated to be "10 times stronger" by Alien Force.

Way Big (OS) would scale to 4-A, since he was able to be on par with another adult To'kustar, albeit a little bit weaker.
Click to expand...
Patience. I have to update the write-up for the aliens.
 
Firestorm808 said:
Okay. Here's the current status of the Scaling Chain Blog for the Verse. Will update with fight citations over time.

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ben 10 - Scaling Chains

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
Thank you so much with your help.
Btw, I was gonna ask you if i should wait to this to end so I can make a CRT about Diamondhead's upgrade, or just do it here so all of Ben's aliens are ready.

It'd something like:
Would it be :

Attack Potency: 4-B physically (Held his own against Colossus Kevin. Fought against some Highbreeds. Kept up with Generator Rex), Way higher with Diamond Constructs (One shot Kevin and Warlord Vilgax. Tetrax harmed Evil Way Big using Crystal shards. Capable of slightly pushing Malgax back).

Durability: 4-B+ (Survived an assault from both Ultimate Cannonbolt and Ultimate Echo Echo, even when the latter uses his main weakness as a primary attack. Albeit left unconscious, wasn't visually damaged by a missile from Ultimate Humongousaur. Tetrax, a weaker Petrosapien, could survive a casual kick from Evil Way Big. Survived some casual blows from Malgax).

So, basically, DH AP would be 4-B, way higher with diamond comstreicts.
And his durability would be 4-B+.
 
Firestorm808 said:
How does the entire OS cast scale to OS Vilgax when he was shown stomping a good majority of them?
Click to expand...
Stinkfly was able to push Four Arms back a little, Wildmutt destroyed the same robots that Rojo merged with and harmed the Circus Freaks, that fought Four Arms.

All of them were completely inferior to the Tetramand, but they would still somehow scale.
 
GeneralSol16 said:
Stinkfly was able to push Four Arms back a little, Wildmutt destroyed the same robots that Rojo merged with and harmed the Circus Freaks, that fought Four Arms.

All of them were completely inferior to the Tetramand, but they would still somehow scale.
Click to expand...

I will have to re-examine that supposed Four Arms scaling chain. Rojo shouldn't be as strong as Vilgax.

OS Diamondhead is one of the strong ones, and even he broke his hands when trying to fight OS Vilgax and still did no significant damage.
 
Firestorm808 said:
I will have to re-examine that supposed Four Arms scaling chain. Rojo shouldn't be as strong as Vilgax.

OS Diamondhead is one of the strong ones, and even he broke his hands when trying to fight OS Vilgax and still did no significant damage.
Click to expand...
Uhm.
Maybe you're right.
Heatblast, Stinkfly, Upgrade, XLR8, Wildmutt and Ghostfrak shouldn't be that far from each other.
And all of them would massively downscale from a casual Diamondhead, since no one was actually able to harm hin at all.
 
Btw.
GeneralSol16 said:
Attack Potency: 4-B physically (Held his own against Colossus Kevin. Fought against some Highbreeds. Kept up with Generator Rex), Way higher with Diamond Constructs (One shot Kevin and Warlord Vilgax. Tetrax harmed Evil Way Big using Crystal shards. Capable of slightly pushing Malgax back).

Durability: 4-B+ (Survived an assault from both Ultimate Cannonbolt and Ultimate Echo Echo, even when the latter uses his main weakness as a primary attack. Albeit left unconscious, wasn't visually damaged by a missile from Ultimate Humongousaur. Tetrax, a weaker Petrosapien, could survive a casual kick from Evil Way Big. Survived some casual blows from Malgax).
Click to expand...
Do you agree with this?
Firestorm808 said:
?
Click to expand...
¿
 
Last edited:
Firestorm808 said:
It seems okay, but I would have to verify the clips.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't that need another thread in itself? I mean upgrading Diamondhead's dura and stuff. Along with OS Waybig to 4-A? Because I have a lot of contentions with that
 
Any specific upgrades can be done later.

Let's just focus on the core Scaling chains at the moment.

Looking at the current blog, do you have any suggestions for the placements?
 
Hellformer said:
Wouldn't that need another thread in itself? I mean upgrading Diamondhead's dura and stuff. Along with OS Waybig to 4-A? Because I have a lot of contentions with that
Click to expand...
I don't plan to upgrade Way Big, just Diamondhead.
 
Last edited:
Firestorm808 said:
I wouldn't recommend that for scaling use.
Click to expand...
Uh then there's nothing I can think of because then the only option left would be scaling OS Aliens to Low 5-B which is wrong imo because they wouldn't have been able to tank hits from OS Vilgax, nor would Mutated Kevin
GeneralSol16 said:
U don't plan to upgrade way Big, just D0H
Click to expand...
I disagree with upgrading meta for both but that will be discussed in another thread
 
Hellformer said:
Uh then there's nothing I can think of because then the only option left would be scaling OS Aliens to Low 5-B which is wrong imo because they wouldn't have been able to tank hits from OS Vilgax, nor would Mutated Kevin
Click to expand...
Then they would be "At least Low 5-B, likely/possibly higher" or "At least Low 5-B, At most OS Vilgax Tier"

They are at least as strong as the Low 5-B feat, but still got stomped by Vilgax because they are some degree weaker.
 
BlastX said:
This also means Omniverse Flashback Kevin 11/Kevin 12 would be High 4-C.
Click to expand...
OS Waybig's AP would scale to atleast 104.226 GigaFoe (4-B), therefore OV Flashback Kevin would scale to 10.4226 GigaFoe (4-B)
 
GeneralSol16 said:
Diamondhead vs Ultimate Echo Echo and Cannonbolt -
Diamondhead vs Ultimate Humungousaur -
Click to expand...

This is out of curiosity, but given Ult Echo Echo did that damage to Diamond Head along the fact it beat Ult Kevin too, which Ult Humungosaur couldnt do so these on similar degree, not scale him to the x10 multiplier then as it was thought of before?
 
BlackDarkness679 said:
This is out of curiosity, but given Ult Echo Echo did that damage to Diamond Head along the fact it beat Ult Kevin too, which Ult Humungosaur couldnt do so these on similar degree, not scale him to the x10 multiplier then as it was thought of before?
Click to expand...
He's wrong for scaling Diamondhead's Durability to Ultimate Echo Echo's AP. But that will be talked about in a different thread.
 
Last edited:
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Bullfrag

Bullfrag is the Omnitrix's DNA sample of a genetically optimal Incursean from an unknown and destroyed planet. Tier: 5-B Name: Bullfrag Origin: Ben 10 Gender: Male Age: Unknown Classification: Alien, Incursean Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics Skilled Hand-to-Hand...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
vsbattles.fandom.com

Rath

LEMME TELL YA SOMETHIN'!Rath's Catchphrase Rath is the Omnitrix's DNA sample of an Appoplexian from the planet Appoplexia. Tier: 5-B Name: Rath Origin: Ben 10 Gender: Male Age: 15 (Alien Force); 16 (Ultimate Alien/Omniverse) Classification: Alien, Appoplexian Powers and Abilities: Superhuman...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Swampfire (Ultimate Swampfire)
Are missing 4-B.
 
BlackDarkness679 said:
This is out of curiosity, but given Ult Echo Echo did that damage to Diamond Head along the fact it beat Ult Kevin too, which Ult Humungosaur couldnt do so these on similar degree, not scale him to the x10 multiplier then as it was thought of before?
Click to expand...
NGL, I have problems understanding your comment.

But from what I got: The only reason why UEE produced that much damage is because is his main weakness, but even then, Ben was just superficially damage, and was still capable of surviving an attack from UCB, which is also 4-B+.
UHS only knocked him out using his missiles, which scale way higher than his physical strength, and he did not use them against Kevin, so there's no direct contradiction in any of those cases.

Diamondhead's durability (his actual dura, not the one of his comstructs) hasn't been damage by anything in the franchise that isn't 4-A, like Malgax, so there's not an inconsistency over that side either.
 
Literally whats hard to understand

UEE shattered DH, UHS didnt do much dmg to DH in comparison visually, along UK losing UEE unlike UHS whom was equal with yet beaten
 
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