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Ben 10: Tier 4 Upgrade

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To start things off, here's what I see as the first few scaling chain parts:
  • AF Diamondhead Large Constructs > or = AF Vilgax > Peak Humungousaur = X
    • AF Vilgax =
      • Ult Swampfire
      • AF Zs'Skayr
    • AF Vilgax > or =
      • Azmuth AF Humungousaur
    • Peak Humungousaur = AF Diamondhead Physicals
    • Peak Humungousaur >
      • Other normal AF Aliens
  • OS Way Big > 1/10 AF Vilgax = OS Vilgax
    • OS Vilgax >
      • OS Mutant Kevin
      • OS Diamondhead
      • OS XLR8
      • All other OS Aliens
 
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Firestorm808 said:
To start things off, here's what I see as the first few scaling chain parts:
  • AF Diamondhead > or = AF Vilgax > Peak Humungousaur = X
    • Ult Swampfire > AF Vilgax
    • AF Vilgax = AF Zs'Skayr
  • OS Way Big > 1/10 AF Vilgax = OS Vilgax > OS Diamondhead
    • OS Vilgax > OS Diamondhead, OS XLR8, and all other OS Aliens
Click to expand...
i wouldn't say ult swampfire > af vilgax, he did manage 2 hits but vilgax wasn't defeated also vilgax did land a hit to ult swampfire so it's prob comparable
 
Firestorm808 said:
To start things off, here's what I see as the first few scaling chain parts:
  • AF Diamondhead > or = AF Vilgax > Peak Humungousaur = X
    • Ult Swampfire > AF Vilgax
    • AF Vilgax = AF Zs'Skayr
  • OS Way Big > 1/10 AF Vilgax = OS Vilgax > OS Diamondhead
    • OS Vilgax > OS Diamondhead, OS XLR8, and all other OS Aliens
Click to expand...
Fourarms and Canonbolt might be an exception in OS because they defeated Mutated Kevin who took hits from Vilgax.

Also regarding Humungousaur I think he grew stronger over time considering azmuth with Humungousaur transformation could match vilgax. And Ben while having cold, matched Humungousaur with Vilgax
 
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Hellformer said:
Fourarms and Canonbolt might be an exception in OS because they defeated Mutated Kevin who took hits from Vilgax.

Also regarding Humungousaur I think he grew stronger over time considering azmuth with Humungousaur transformation could match vilgax. And Ben while having cold, matched Humungousaur with Vilgax
Click to expand...
For OS Mutated Kevin, did he have any decisive fights with Vilgax?

Did Azmuth win as Humungousaur?
 
Firestorm808 said:
For OS Mutated Kevin, did he have any decisive fights with Vilgax?
Click to expand...
He did, but u can clearly see who has the advantage in that fight. Kevin couldn't do any serious damage at all.

Firestorm808 said:
Did Azmuth win as Humungousaur?
Click to expand...
He lost.
And considering how the Omnitrix reacts to the user's age, we shouldn't scale Azmuth's Humungousaur to Ben's. Especially since we can clearly see how he did some moves that Ben never did, and in contrast with Tennyson, Vilgax said that Azmuth's efforts were actually "good".


Firestorm808 said:
AF Diamondhead > or = AF Vilgax > Peak Humungousaur = X
Click to expand...
But, I'd like to clarify, that Diamondhead with Constructs scales higher than DH raw physical strength, considering how his fights are.

I would say:
- Diamondhead constructs (AP) > Vilgax's full > Humungousaur full > Base Haaur = Diamondhead physicals (AP)

After this concludes, I'll try to make a CRT for Diamondhead.
 
GeneralSol16 said:
He did, but u can clearly see who has the advantage in that fight. Kevin couldn't do any serious damage at all.


He lost.
And considering how the Omnitrix reacts to the user's age, we shouldn't scale Azmuth's Humungousaur to Ben's. Especially since we can clearly see how he did some moves that Ben never did, and in contrast with Tennyson, Vilgax said that Azmuth's efforts were actually "good".



But, I'd like to clarify, that Diamondhead with Constructs scales higher than DH raw physical strength, considering how his fights are.

I would say:
- Diamondhead constructs (AP) > Vilgax's full > Humungousaur full > Base Haaur = Diamondhead physicals (AP)

After this concludes, I'll try to make a CRT for Diamondhead.
Click to expand...

OS Vilgax pretty much stomps OS Mutant Kevin

Will set aside Azmuth's usage as separate.

Will separate DH and Constructs for now.
 
Hellformer said:
Here Ben's Humungousaur matched Vilgax
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say they are matching each other strength, it looks more like a skill fight, they didn't land a clean punch at all, or at least at the same level as their first fight.

But I'll let Firestorm decide what to do with that.
 
Firestorm808 said:
What feats/scaling do the other AF/UA aliens that are below Peak Humungousaur have?
Click to expand...
Ben's other aliens such as Spidermonkey, Chromastone, UAF Swampflre, Big Chill, etc scale to character capable of breaking Gwen's shields or defeating Kevin, who are way weaker than Ben's heavy hitters like Canbonbolt, Four Arms, Diamondhead, Humungousaur, etc.
 
Firestorm808 said:
The fight where they shook the city is a better representation of them going all out with Humungousaur losing the raw strength battle.
Click to expand...
That arc supposedly focused on that battle. There are other instances where Humungousaur's raw stats are comparable to Diamondhead such as their battle with Rex.
 
Hellformer said:
That arc supposedly focused on that battle. There are other instances where Humungousaur's raw stats are comparable to Diamondhead such as their battle with Rex.
Click to expand...
Yep, DH physicals.
He was that superior to Vilgax with his constructs, and those are completely different from his raw stats.
 
GeneralSol16 said:
Ben's other aliens such as Spidermonkey, Chromastone, UAF Swampflre, Big Chill, etc scale to character capable of breaking Gwen's shields or defeating Kevin, who are way weaker than Ben's heavy hitters like Canbonbolt, Four Arms, Diamondhead, Humungousaur, etc.
Click to expand...
I see. So which calcs are the normal aliens scaling to in that regard?
 
Firestorm808 said:
I see. So which calcs are the normal aliens scaling to in that regard?
Click to expand...
Well, all of them downscale in some regard drom Humongousaur.
But, if u want to go by feats, a non upgraded Mechamorph has a L5B feat, and Kevin and Gwen scale from him.
Also, Kid Way Big should be 4-A too tho, he was able to fight an adult Tokustar.

But Ben's weaker aliens should downscale from this, or at least be comparable to OG aliens, who should be 1/10th of UAF Ben's heavy hitters
 
Jetray has shown to harm base Humungousaur
I don't think aliens scaling below Diamondhead and Humungousaur's physical stats should have a seperate tier. They should be nearly comparable and kinda durable enough to tank hits. Such as Vilgax beating the shit out Jetray without resulting in too much damage.
Another example:
Lodestar being able to tank hits from Rex who is comparable to Humungousaur and Diamondhead
 
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GeneralSol16 said:
Well, all of them downscale in some regard drom Humongousaur.
But, if u want to go by feats, a non upgraded Mechamorph has a L5B feat, and Kevin and Gwen scale from him.
Also, Kid Way Big should be 4-A too tho, he was able to fight an adult Tokustar.

But Ben's weaker aliens should downscale from this, or at least be comparable to OG aliens, who should be 1/10th of UAF Ben's heavy hitters
Click to expand...
We'll sort out the aliens that scale from the Low 5-B chain.

Some might have something like "At least Low 5-B, possibly [Higher or Insert Humungousaur Tier]"

Was that OS Way Big vs Azmuth Way Big in Destroy all Aliens?
 
Firestorm808 said:
We'll sort out the aliens that scale from the Low 5-B chain.

Some might have something like "At least Low 5-B, possibly [Higher or Insert Humungousaur Tier]"

Was that OS Way Big vs Azmuth Way Big in Destroy all Aliens?
Click to expand...
Why? They are 1/10th of UAF Ben's Aliens
 
Firestorm808 said:
Not really. Even Ben says that his eye rays just sting. It's not what I would consider significant damage to scale them as comparable.
Click to expand...
Sting: To make a person or an animal feel a sudden pain by pushing something sharp into his/ her skin and sending poison into him/her.

Jetray was shown to strike and knock down Humungousaur (Here)

Honestly, putting specific aliens at a completely different tier (Low 5-B vs 4-B) would be too inconsistent for the series or else we would have too many outliers on multiple occasions.
 
Last edited:
Firestorm808 said:
Was that OS Way Big vs Azmuth Way Big in Destroy all Aliens?
Click to expand...
Yes, ans that movie is canon.
So, OS Way Big and the Retaliator armor should be 4-A.

And for Ben weakest combat aliens, I kinda agree with them having ghe "Tier 4" as a possible rating, since even if they have fought Ben's heavy hitters or comparable fors, they are portrayed as being ridiculously weaker than Ben's powerhouses.

Kevin and Gwen should be Tire 4 tho, Kevin has been shown relatively comparable to Ben's heavy hitters such as Base Humongousaur and Diamondhead raw strength, as well as robots that Four Arms was able to fight in equal terms, although he is overall weaker.
Gwen should have a "Varies" rating, since her Shields durability and stability depends on her concentration and the amount of mana she puts on them, going from being destroyed by Kid Heatblast to enduring hits from Humongousaur.

There are other aliens capable of being on par with Hsaur, DH and 4A, so I'll out a list of who should definitely have a solid Tier 4-B rating.

  • Humongousaur.
  • Diamondhead.
  • Four Arms.
  • Cannonbolt.
  • Rath.
  • Shocksquatch.
  • NRG.
  • Armodrillo.
  • Water Hazard (durability)
  • Heatblast.
  • Gravattack.
  • Swampfire (OV form)
  • Non charged up Eatle.
  • Ball Weevil.
  • Feedback.
This lost refer clearly only to Teen Ben forms, and is based on not only the fights they had, but narratively how they're portrayed in the episode / series.
-
 
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