(4-8-0) Beerus' rivals faceoff - Silver Wolf vs Sans

[StrymULTRA]

Given that both are pretty much controversial Beerus opponents here, I decided to do le funny.

• Starting Distance: 10 meters.
• Location: Judgement Hall
• Speed Equalized
• SBA Otherwise.

Hacker: 4 (Woomica, Spinoirr, SODAKU, Voidnether)

Cheater: 8 (TheOrangeGuy09, LittleGuy99, Shar122, DaReaperMan, Dragonite007, Johner2133451, Enter_Bluey, Dark_Soul20189)

Incon: 0

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Silver wolf best options are either BFR or Reality Warping on Sans or if she can somehow hit him to just one shot with AP gap

While he has Dura Neg, Telekinesis and Gravity Manipulation to take her down, as the other ablities she generally can resist

 

[StrymULTRA]

Silver wolf best options are either BFR or Reality Warping on Sans or if she can somehow hit him to just one shot with AP gap

Sans' whole stick is to hax to death opponents who can one shot him at any time if they hit him once.

While he has Dura Neg, Telekinesis and Gravity Manipulation to take her down, as the other ablities she generally can resist

Soul Manipulation too, given it still worked perfectly fine on a soulless entity.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Sans' whole stick is to hax to death opponents who can one shot him at any time if they hit him once.

Ye i see, then just BFR or Reality warping is her winning shot

Soul Manipulation too, given it still worked perfectly fine on a soulless entity.

isnt that just NEP if the opponent is soulles?
He would need to have Info type 2 and Concept manip to affect her (also for some reason hoyo souls are accepted as 1-A+ which i wont even comment how it got passed so even with things i mentioned he cant kill her with soul manip)

 

[StrymULTRA]

isnt that just NEP if the opponent is soulles?

Nah, Flowey is a physical plant that lacks a SOUL unlike Monsters and Humans, yet Sans killed him a LOT of times.

He would need to have Info type 2 and Concept manip to affect her (also for some reason hoyo souls are accepted as 1-A+ which i wont even comment how it got passed so even with things i mentioned he cant kill her with soul manip)

Sans can easily circumvent that as the magic in Undertale verse, while affecting SOULs, it also affects the body (yes the attacks affect both SOUL and Physical body at once).

Despite Sans' main thing is to affect SOULs with his hax, his fights against Flowey prove that he can use said SOUL hax against stuff that entirely lack it. Meaning that if he cannot hax her SOUL, he'll still hax her body just as fine.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Wow I expected this to have more attention.

 

[helello100]

The site is pretty dormant these days yeah, mostly because there isnt any good match. Usually it ends with "Insert whatever bullshit hax other character doesnt resist gg"
Goku vs Mori was nice for example

 

[StrymULTRA]

The site is pretty dormant these days yeah, mostly because there isnt any good match. Usually it ends with "Insert whatever bullshit hax other character doesnt resist gg"

In this case both have ez ways to win the fight however.

I do say this is a decent match.

 

[helello100]

It is but unfortunately i dont know shit about undertale so i cant vote without further context.

 

[Voidnether]

Despite Sans' main thing is to affect SOULs with his hax, his fights against Flowey prove that he can use said SOUL hax against stuff that entirely lack it. Meaning that if he cannot hax her SOUL, he'll still hax her body just as fine.

The statistics difference are too big for Sans to even hax Silver Wolf in this case, I can't say much about Silver Wolf on the other hand though but I believe her BFR does not count as an attack. So, that should give her a wincon (rn)

 

[StrymULTRA]

The statistics difference are too big for Sans to even hax Silver Wolf in this case

What are you even talking about?

Sans' whole thing is to dura neg and inflict 1-per-frame damage regardless of the stats difference, he has wins against multiple Tier 3 to 1 characters because of this.

 

[Voidnether]

What are you even talking about?

Sans' whole thing is to dura neg and inflict 1-per-frame damage regardless of the stats difference, he has wins against multiple Tier 3 to 1 characters because of this.

So it's not an ability that circumvents durability to a limited extent, huh.. Could you elaborate more on that?

Resistance

Resistance is the power to withstand the effects of certain abilities through varying means. The highest degree of resistance is outright Immunity, supposedly making the user in question completely unaffected by such abilities. Of course, simple resistance to one showing of an ability isn't...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[StrymULTRA]

So it's not an ability that circumvents durability to a limited extent, huh.. Could you elaborate more on that?

Resistance

Resistance is the power to withstand the effects of certain abilities through varying means. The highest degree of resistance is outright Immunity, supposedly making the user in question completely unaffected by such abilities. Of course, simple resistance to one showing of an ability isn't...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Basically, it's about how Undertale verse mechanics work (it's extremely meta as a lot of its narrative revolves around game mechanics, and stuff like Save Files, in-game statistics, etc. are all canon).

Sans himself has a mechanic where he can always deal 1 damage per frame thanks to his KARMA, and that works the same regardless of the statistical increases of the playable character, and the game considers as finite stats even higher infinities considering that a Low 2-C character is still implied to have finite stats, while in-verse infinite stats are only reached by a 2-B one.

Aka it's something similar to Dragon Ball where finite multipliers makes a character jump from Tier 4 to Tier 2, and Undertale is the same where the jump is instead from Tier 8 to Tier 2 with a purely finite amp.

It's literally how he won against Dragon Ball characters like Goku Black or Frieza, inconned with Zeno, or had countless fights against Tier 5s.

 

[Voidnether]

Basically, it's about how Undertale verse mechanics work (it's extremely meta as a lot of its narrative revolves around game mechanics, and stuff like Save Files, in-game statistics, etc. are all canon).

Sans himself has a mechanic where he can always deal 1 damage per frame thanks to his KARMA, and that works the same regardless of the statistical increases of the playable character, and the game considers as finite stats even higher infinities considering that a Low 2-C character is still implied to have finite stats, while in-verse infinite stats are only reached by a 2-B one.

Aka it's something similar to Dragon Ball where finite multipliers makes a character jump from Tier 4 to Tier 2, and Undertale is the same where the jump is instead from Tier 8 to Tier 2 with a purely finite amp.

It's literally how he won against Dragon Ball characters like Goku Black or Frieza, inconned with Zeno, or had countless fights against Tier 5s.

Both have their own wincons then, by Sans either decapitating Silver Wolf or Silver Wolf that could use BFR against him (Would Sans even dodge something that doesn't harm him in any way like BFR though?)

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Both have their own wincons then, by Sans either decapitating Silver Wolf or Silver Wolf that could use BFR against him (Would Sans even dodge something that doesn't harm him in any way like BFR though?)

he aint dodgin 1-A(currently not gonna be soon) range of BFR, this is 300000Th match of who attacks first (assuming sans doesnt just one shot with dura neg pretty sure Silver Wolf takes this)

 

[Voidnether]

he aint dodgin 1-A(currently not gonna be soon) range of BFR, this is 300000Th match of who attacks first (assuming sans doesnt just one shot with dura neg pretty sure Silver Wolf takes this)

Sans isn't one-shotting I believe since from what I've read it's just Sans decapitating her..
Even if it's 3-A in range, that's still an entire observable universe except if Sans teleport himself to other dimensions that's inaccessible by Aether Editing, you cooked nothing (You told me to cook this matchup but after I considered this, it doesn't deserve to be cooked at all..)

 

[StrymULTRA]

assuming sans doesnt just one shot with dura neg

ACTUALLY.

The non-Undertale SOUL is assumed to have only 20 HPs in cross-verse, as that canonically increases only with LV (Level of Violence), a mechanic that increases one's strength the more they kill.

And this is how fast he kills if you fail to dodge his attacks properly with 99 HP (killing everyone to get that high is how you fight him).

This instead is how fast he does if you mod the game to get only at LV 1.

Aka it's indeed (almost) a one-shot because of his danmaku being so damn complex that almost no one managed to survive his first attack, and to go past Sans you need to either have superhuman combat analysis to instantly figure out the pattern needed to dodge, or learn these patterns yourself by making trial and error many, many times.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Even if it's 3-A in range, that's still an entire observable universe except if Sans teleport himself to other dimensions

TBF, if the BFR is this, what stops Sans from escaping it by doing this and avoiding said BFR?

 

[Voidnether]

ACTUALLY.

The non-Undertale SOUL is assumed to have only 20 HPs in cross-verse, as that canonically increases only with LV (Level of Violence), a mechanic that increases one's strength the more they kill.

And this is how fast he kills if you fail to dodge his attacks properly with 99 HP (killing everyone to get that high is how you fight him).

This instead is how fast he does if you mod the game to get only at LV 1.

Aka it's indeed (almost) a one-shot because of his danmaku being so damn complex that almost no one managed to survive his first attack, and to go past Sans you need to either have superhuman combat analysis to instantly figure out the pattern needed to dodge, or learn these patterns yourself by making trial and error many, many times.

"That paradise may be unreachable for me..."
Honestly, putting Blade against this would be a good matchup — I'll wait for the others before casting off a vote, it's really not fair since most of the characters in HSR that's been in a matchup doesn't have either Regeneration nor Immortality (Excluding Acheron, but even for her I don't really think that's useful).

 

[Voidnether]

TBF, if the BFR is this, what stops Sans from escaping it by doing this and avoiding said BFR?

3-A range since that's what Aether Editing covers, except if he's teleporting to another dimension

 

[StrymULTRA]

3-A range since that's what Aether Editing covers, except if he's teleporting to another dimension

No I mean...

If her BFR works by putting people in a portal, what stops Sans by teleporting away in the middle of him getting through said portal and avoiding being BFR'd?

Honestly, putting Blade against this would be a good matchup

I don't know what changes here and how does he have a better shot against Sans.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

"That paradise may be unreachable for me..."
Honestly, putting Blade against this would be a good matchup — I'll wait for the others before casting off a vote, it's really not fair since most of the characters in HSR that's been in a matchup doesn't have either Regeneration nor Immortality (Excluding Acheron, but even for her I don't really think that's useful).

Blade wont be able to hit sans tho, i think you could use kafka bcs of her spirit whisper thingies

 

[Voidnether]

No I mean...

If her BFR works by putting people in a portal, what stops Sans by teleporting away in the middle of him getting through said portal and avoiding being BFR'd?

Ehh, her BFR mechanism is more of like something that's erasing them, nevermind that's literally what you sent.. Yeah, I don't see how sans is gonna do that since atleast partially some parts of his body would be gone

I don't know what changes here and how does he have a better shot against Sans.

Passive High-Mid Regeneration works, no?
That's all I could think of, plus berserk mode & bloodlust

Blade wont be able to hit sans tho, i think you could use kafka bcs of her spirit whisper thingies

Both would last until the end of time anyways, so that's inconclusive (Using spirit whisper is literally an automatic wincon cause sans isn't going to dodge sound)

 

[StrymULTRA]

Ehh, her BFR mechanism is more of like something that's erasing them, nevermind that's literally what you sent.. Yeah, I don't see how sans is gonna do that

He can just teleport away in the middle of being erased, if that shit is localized.

Passive High-Mid Regeneration works, no?

That'd prolly make a stomp against Sans as we don't exactly see the extent of the damage besides the SOUL being shattered to pieces at the death screen.

berserk mode & bloodlust

That instead is made trivial by IA.

Using spirit whisper is literally an automatic wincon cause sans isn't going to dodge sound

I have a REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY BAD news for you.

(Yes some come from Deltarune, but that's a canon AU made by the same author, which reinforces the idea that for him sound is indeed a dodgeable bullet).

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Kafka doesnt even have sound manip so by profile it seems she can use it automatically (whoever made her profile must be studied )

 

[Voidnether]

He can just teleport away in the middle of being erased, if that shit is localized.

He could, but it would risk of him losing some of his body parts except if he could regenerate from that.

That'd prolly make a stomp against Sans as we don't exactly see the extent of the damage besides the SOUL being shattered to pieces at the death screen.

I wouldn't call it stomp since I assume it would be inconclusive nonetheless.

I have a REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY BAD news for you.

(Yes some come from Deltarune, but that's a canon AU made by the same author, which reinforces the idea that for him sound is indeed a dodgeable bullet).

Kafka doesnt even have sound manip so by profile it seems she can use it automatically (whoever made her profile must be studied )

 

[PedjaTarzan]

He can just teleport away in the middle of being erased, if that shit is localized.

not sure about that, her current profile has her bfr both at 1-A range and potency which just means he is getting bfred by something that can reach into infinitely qualitative realms (i hate arguing outerverse *****)
Tho im sure she can use her extraordinary intelligence along with teleportation and holograms to avoid direct fight with sans and bfr from afar

 

[StrymULTRA]

He could, but it would risk of him losing some of his body parts except if he could regenerate from that.

In my view, it also could fail because it did not "fully" did, so Sans could come out in one piece.

Something like when you pull out from a portal, it's not like your body is stuck there and you split in half if you go back.

I wouldn't call it stomp since I assume it would be inconclusive nonetheless.

I remember Sans being put against ******* Majin Buu of all things so idfk at this point.

not sure about that, her current profile has her bfr both at 1-A range and potency which just means he is getting bfred by something that can reach into infinitely qualitative realms

I talk about teleporting in the middle of being BFR'd, not coming back from that.

Tho im sure she can use her extraordinary intelligence along with teleportation and holograms to avoid direct fight with sans and bfr from afar

Talking as if Sans' whole thing is not fighting from afar and spam attacks by a distance too, especially given that he can use blasters, a lot of them.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

In my view, it also could fail because it did not "fully" did, so Sans could come out in one piece

Honestly not sure, i only say this cuz of range being hyperwanked. also this would mean zeno and ichigo could potentiallty escape march freeze gg with instant transimiton/shunpo

Talking as if Sans' whole thing is not fighting from afar and spam attacks by a distance too, especially given that he can use blasters, a lot of them.

tbh its outer vs thousands of kilometers unless he has smurf 2-B range from abilities
so she has advantage over that too

 

[StrymULTRA]

Honestly not sure, i only say this cuz of range being hyperwanked. also this would mean zeno and ichigo could potentiallty escape march freeze gg with instant transimiton/shunpo

Range does not matter here, it's not like Sans is even fully teleported away if he disrupts the process in the first place.

tbh its outer vs thousands of kilometers unless he has smurf 2-B range from abilities
so she has advantage over that too

TWO QUESTIONS BECAUSE IT'S BECOMING SUS:

1. How would she even see him at that distance.
2. We start at 10 meters of distance here, and we still are debating if she's surviving the first attack of Sans, and I mean suddenly and without warning being put in insane danmaku that requires having already memorized the required pattern to dodge it, or having absurd feats in analyzing bullet patterns on the fly.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Range does not matter here, it's not like Sans is even fully teleported away if he disrupts the process in the first place.

TWO QUESTIONS BECAUSE IT'S BECOMING SUS:

1. How would she even see him at that distance.

"she sees universe as playground"
on a more serious note, he aint gonna distrupt something he cant affect because its way too superior for his ability to teleporg

1. We start at 10 meters of distance here, and we still are debating if she's surviving the first attack of Sans, and I mean suddenly and without warning being put in insane danmaku that requires having already memorized the required pattern to dodge it, or having absurd feats in analyzing bullet patterns on the fly.

She has teleportation and holograms, if she realises shes in danger she would use it

 

[StrymULTRA]

"she sees universe as playground"

:V

She has teleportation and holograms, if she realises shes in danger she would use it

Idk man that stuff is pretty damn instantaneous and kills you in less than a second if you cannot fully dodge it.

It really boils down if she manages to react in time before KR fully kicks in.

 

[StrymULTRA]

on a more serious note, he aint gonna distrupt something he cant affect because its way too superior for his ability to teleporg

Who says he's affecting the teleport? He's just snucks away from the thing in the first place, you don't need to affect the ability if you just avoid it.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Strym arguing for Sans? Am I in alternative universe?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Strym arguing for Sans? Am I in alternative universe?

Just because I find him overrated asf it does not mean that I ain't fair towards him.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Who says he's affecting the teleport? He's just snucks away from the thing in the first place, you don't need to affect the ability if you just avoid it.

avoiding bfr with range that i already mentioned as it falls within the abilties of aether editing seems virtually impossible unless im missing something about the range.
Especially if hes getting hit by this.

 

[StrymULTRA]

avoiding bfr with range that i already mentioned as it falls within the abilties of aether editing seems virtually impossible unless im missing something about the range.
Especially if hes getting hit by this.

So you mean that he cannot "dodge" it via teleporting as that BFR covers already that much?

 

[PedjaTarzan]

So you mean that he cannot "dodge" it via teleporting as that BFR covers already that much?

Welp yeah profile has her range to at 1-A+ via aether editing where bfr is listed as ability

 

[StrymULTRA]

Welp yeah profile has her range to at 1-A+ via aether editing where bfr is listed as ability

Welp.

I suppose it's a matter if she can survive Sans' attacks in time to pull that off.

Though does she usually lead with that IC? Because I don't see a normal attack of hers that ain't just getting dodged by Sans.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Welp.

I suppose it's a matter if she can survive Sans' attacks in time to pull that off.

Though does she usually lead with that IC? Because I don't see a normal attack of hers that ain't just getting dodged by Sans.

She usually uses aether editing, even her gameplay relies on that. even her demo showcases her using aether editing as well in which she even bfrs attack from enemy
usually sans will dodge most of her attacks, not sure about ultimate as it stucks enemy inside a game