Ben 10: Massive Stats & Abilities Addition!

[Hellformer]

Eon:
1) Class P Lifting Strength upgrade:

Lifting Strength: Class P (Physically kept up with Diamondhead)

2) Causality Manipulation addition:

Causality Manipulation with Chrononavigator (If desired, the Chrono Navigator can destroy all of existence, all of time and causality itself. "All of existence" refers to the realm of the timestream)

3) Durability Negation:

Durability Negation (Can ignore durability with Age Manipulation)

Professor Paradox:
Class P and Multi-Stellar Lifting Strength upgrade:

Lifting Strength: Class P (Physically kept up with Eon), Multi-Stellar via Space-Time Manipulation (Moved a massive nebula outside the Universe)

Feedback:
1) Class M and Immeasurable Lifting Strength upgrade for Omniverse Key:

Lifting Strength: Class M (Physically restrained Phil Billings who could overpower Frankenstrike), Varies, at most Immeasurable with Energy Absorption (Lifted and Carried the creation of Annihilargh post absorbtion)

It has already been accepted that Feedback's physical stats vary with energy absorption so it's pretty safe to go with.

2) Durability Negation addition:

Durability Negation (Can negate durability with life force absorption)

Energy Manipulation - Unconventional use of energy attacks may be able to bypass the body's natural defenses.

Alien X:
1) Non-Physical Interaction addition:

Non-Physical Interaction (Can destroy all of existence and Celestialsapiens are said to change the entire cosmology which includes species of Zs'Skayr and Bigchill. Superior to the likes of Bigchill who can interact with his species)

I found the first argument of NPI on Zeno's profile so thought of applying it over here. In case the staffs disagree, we can go with the 2nd argument i.e Superior to the likes of Bigchill

2) Conceptual Manipulation addition:

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1; Paradox in his debut episode mentions about Transtemporal Metaphysics. Transtemporal means something related to temporality in this context while Metaphysics is the division of philosophy that is concerned with the fundamental nature of reality and being and that includes ontology, cosmology, and often epistemology implying the fundamental nature of temporality. As if the fundamental/universal idea of space-time origins from somewhere which in this case would be the Forge of Creation, a realm where the entire verse began, a place where the Celestialsapiens reside)

Note: The Universe is made by the contumelias hence in the above context, it must refer to the entire verse as a whole.

3) Light Manipulation and Aura:

Light Manipulation and Aura (Can create light around him while flying)

4) Abstract Existence:

Abstract Existence (Type 1; Serena and Bellicus embody the ideas of Love and Rage. They lack a physical form due to Incorporeality and merely exist as an avatar. Alien X can only be affected by harming his debate dimension along with his consciousness considering how Galactic Gladiator focused on shaking the dimension, thanks to his Type 9 Immortality)

Reason for Celestialsapien's existence being abstract:
Embodying a concept is not enough to obtain this ability, an abstract needs feats or reliable statements proving that the concept they represent grants them Immortality/Regeneration or control over the abstraction (This abstraction gives Alien X Type 9 Immortality)
Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars
All these requirements are seen in a Celestialsapien since they exist as avatars and the opponent must have 1-B range to affect the consciousness.

5) Low-Godly Regen:

Regeneration (Low-Godly; Comparable to Galactic Gladiator who could regenerate with the help of his consciousness after being completely destroyed by a galaxy sized blackhole and able to regenerate his physical body from inside his pocket dimension as thats where their thoughts, decisions, actions and abilities come from)

Low-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of the user's body, instead restoring it from their disembodied consciousness, whether that be their soul, mind, some other non-physical aspect of themself, esoteric or metaphysical energy, or something else.
I made specific texts bold which match with the reasoning for Alien X's regen.
And yes the blackhole did destroy GG's avatar, I've posted snapshots of the destruction of his body over here.

Waybig:
Waybig should get a seperate key for his Classic/OV Flashback counterpart just how the other aliens have.

Tier: 5-A | High 5-A | 4-B, possibly 4-A

Key: Classic/OV Flashback | UAF and Omniverse base | Ultimate Form

Chromastone:
Stellar Range:

Range: Standard Melee Range, Tens of Meters with abilities, Stellar with his crystal (Sugilite recreated petropia on the range of the background stars)

Contumelia:
Teleportation:

Teleportation (Demonstrated over here)

Profiles which need to be unlocked:
Alien X
Celestialsapiens
Feedback
Paradox
Eon
Contumelia
Chromastone


Agree: @Firestorm808 @DarkDragonMedeus (Same as Firestorm's opinion) @Elizhaa (Same as Firestorm's opinion)
Disagree:
Neutral: @Firestorm808 (CM Type 1)

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Eon:
1) Class M Lifting Strength upgrade:
3) Durability Negation:
Professor Paradox:
1) Lifting Strength upgrade:

Agree with Dura neg and Multi-Stellar LS with telekinesis. For physical LS you can maybe get them to Class P via Eon and Diamondhead clashing blades, however I’m not the best with LS stuff so idk if this would count.

Neutral on everything else for now.

 

[Hellformer]

Agree with Dura neg and Multi-Stellar LS with telekinesis. For physical LS you can maybe get them to Class P via Eon and Diamondhead clashing blades, however I’m not the best with LS stuff so idk if this would count.

Neutral on everything else for now.

Thanks, I've made the changes. What about Waybig's Key seperation?

 

[OMNIVERSAL-KING]

A common hell former w
Agree

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Thanks, I've made the changes. What about Waybig's Key seperation?

I’m guessing OS Way Big is just upscaling a bit from other OS characters? If so then I agree on that too.

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

AGREE ON EVERYTHING.
Bit iffy on Conceptual Manipulation as it leans heavily into the meaning 'metaphysics' but I've seen characters get it for less. Agreed. Metaphysics can also directly refer to abstract concepts like space and time.

Neatral on Non-Physical interaction as a character with EE can erase a Intangible being without physically interaction.

Agree on Feedback. Energy does have mass.

 

[BlastX]

If 10-11 year old Way Big is gonna be upscaling from Classic Aliens then Kevin 12 should also be downgraded then.

 

[Hellformer]

AGREE ON EVERYTHING.
Bit iffy on Conceptual Manipulation as it leans heavily into the meaning 'metaphysics' but I've seen characters get it for less. Agreed. Metaphysics can also directly refer to abstract concepts like space and time.

Yup

Neatral on Non-Physical interaction as a character with EE can erase a Intangible being without physically interaction.

Zeno has this ability with the same reasoning. And I've given other argument to it besides the first one.

Agree on Feedback. Energy does have mass.

Yes

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

The revision proposals seem sound to me. By the way, it would be better for the image from the guide to be uploaded to Imgur or to the VS Battles Wiki by you, rather than be contained in someone else's YouTube video.

 

[REX9097]

Agree

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

Zeno has this ability with the same reasoning. And I've given other argument to it besides the first one.

Then I agree.

 

[REX9097]

Way Big Classic/OV Flashback seems to have not developed much because Ben has only used it once and has not seen its full power as it has no feats. This means that Way Big shouldn't have Classic/OV Flashback key because he doesn't have feat, plus we haven't seen his abilities.
Note: The only feat that Way Big Classic/OV Flashback has is this

• Way Big was able to send Vilgax into Orbit, with this much speed.

 

[Hellformer]

Way Big Classic/OV Flashback seems to have not developed much because Ben has only used it once and has not seen its full power as it has no feats. This means that Way Big shouldn't have Classic/OV Flashback key because he doesn't have feat, plus we haven't seen his abilities.
Note: The only feat that Way Big Classic/OV Flashback has is this

We'll simply upscale him from the other aliens

 

[Hellformer]

The revision proposals seem sound to me. By the way, it would be better for the image from the guide to be uploaded to Imgur or to the VS Battles Wiki by you, rather than be contained in someone else's YouTube video.

Done

 

[REX9097]

We'll simply upscale him from the other aliens

We didn't see his power in Classic/OV Flashback can comparable to other aliens, and will get downgrade all aliens, if Classic/OV Flashback is accepted and this will change everything in Classic/OV Flashback keys.
Large Planetary Feats will be cancelled for Classic/OV Flashback aliens and they will become High 6-A to Low 5-B possibly

 

[Hellformer]

We didn't see his power in Classic/OV Flashback can comparable to other aliens, and will get downgrade all aliens, if Classic/OV Flashback is accepted and this will change everything in Classic/OV Flashback keys.
Large Planetary Feats will be cancelled for Classic/OV Flashback aliens and they will become High 6-A to Low 5-B possibly

Okay then I'll remove it

 

[Ghengiroo115]

We didn't see his power in Classic/OV Flashback can comparable to other aliens, and will get downgrade all aliens, if Classic/OV Flashback is accepted and this will change everything in Classic/OV Flashback keys.
Large Planetary Feats will be cancelled for Classic/OV Flashback aliens and they will become High 6-A to Low 5-B possibly

Wait, how does this downgrade every alien? UAF/OV Way Big would still be High 5-A, Ultimate Kevin would still have 1/10th his power, Ultimate Humungousaur would still scale to Ultimate Kevin and base Humungousaur would still be 1/10th Ultimate.

 

[REX9097]

Wait, how does this downgrade every alien? UAF/OV Way Big would still be High 5-A, Ultimate Kevin would still have 1/10th his power, Ultimate Humungousaur would still scale to Ultimate Kevin and base Humungousaur would still be 1/10th Ultimate.

I didn't say this will only affect All aliens it will only affect Classic/OV Flashback aliens.

 

[NXCHT.66]

Will comment later.

 

[Hellformer]

I didn't say this will only affect All aliens it will only affect Classic/OV Flashback aliens.

It might not because they downscale by 1/10th from the AF aliens and so will the Classic waybig. As easy as that

 

[Ghengiroo115]

I didn't say this will only affect All aliens it will only affect Classic/OV Flashback aliens.

Yeah that’s what I mean, I don’t see how this would downgrade every OS alien.

 

[REX9097]

Yeah that’s what I mean, I don’t see how this would downgrade every OS alien.

Oh I forgot that.

 

[Livinmeme]

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2; Paradox in his debut episode mentions about Transtemporal Metaphysics. Transtemporality means time-travel in this context while Metaphysics is the division of philosophy that is concerned with the fundamental nature of reality and being and that includes ontology, cosmology, and often epistemology. As if the fundamental/universal idea of space-time origins from somewhere which in this case would be the Forge of Creation since it is a place where the entire verse began, a place where the Celestialsapiens reside)

That sounds like a type 1

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

That sounds like a type 1

Time and Causality govern reality in a sence as Paradox stated that the Chrononavigator can destroy all of time and causality and then later stated the all of existence will be destroyed as a result.

 

[Hellformer]

That sounds like a type 1

It's Type 2 because the very fundamental/universal idea of space-time origins from the Forge of Creation

 

[Livinmeme]

It's Type 2 because the very fundamental/universal idea of space-time origins from the Forge of Creation

That is straight up Type 1, dude. Type 1 are concepts that are unbound from the universe, and well...Ben 10 concepts directly come from the forge of creation

 

[Hellformer]

That is straight up Type 1, dude. Type 1 are concepts that are unbound from the universe, and well...Ben 10 concepts directly come from the forge of creation

Well okay then

 

[Hellformer]

I've added Chromastone's Range

 

[Firestorm808]

Will go over later tonight.

 

[REX9097]

Agree on the new addition

 

[Firestorm808]

Will do in bits:

Eon:
1) Class P Lifting Strength upgrade:

Lifting Strength: Class P (Physically kept up with Diamondhead)

Revise to "could hold up a shield against Diamondhead's attacks"

2) Causality Manipulation addition:

Causality Manipulation with Chrononavigator (If desired, the Chrono Navigator can destroy all of existence, all of time and causality itself. "All of existence" refers to the realm of the timestream)

If manipulation is only displayed as destruction, it will be "limited"

3) Durability Negation:

Durability Negation (Can ignore durability with Age Manipulation)

That's not durability negation, that's just not having resistance to age manip via time manip

Professor Paradox:
Class P and Multi-Stellar Lifting Strength upgrade:

Lifting Strength: Class P (Physically kept up with Eon), Multi-Stellar via Telekinesis (Moved a massive nebula outside the Universe)

Revise to "Could hold his cane against Eon's strike"

Is it telekinesis or some space-time manip?

Feedback:
1) Class M and Immeasurable Lifting Strength upgrade for Omniverse Key:

Lifting Strength: Class M (Physically restrained Phil Billings who could overpower Frankenstrike), Varies, at most Immeasurable with Energy Absorption (Lifted and Carried the creation of the Annihilargh post absorbtion)

It has already been accepted that Feedback's physical stats vary with energy absorption so it's pretty safe to go with.

I suppose?

 

[Hellformer]

Will do in bits:

Eon:
1) Class P Lifting Strength upgrade:

Revise to "could hold up a shield against Diamondhead's attacks"

2) Causality Manipulation addition:

If manipulation is only displayed as destruction, it will be "limited"

3) Durability Negation:

That's not durability negation, that's just not having resistance to age manip via time manip

Professor Paradox:
Class P and Multi-Stellar Lifting Strength upgrade:

Revise to "Could hold his cane against Eon's strike"

Is it telekinesis or some space-time manip?

Feedback:
1) Class M and Immeasurable Lifting Strength upgrade for Omniverse Key:

It has already been accepted that Feedback's physical stats vary with energy absorption so it's pretty safe to go with.

I suppose?

Telekinesis I suppose, what about others?
Edit: It's space time manipulation

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

3) Durability Negation:

That's not durability negation, that's just not having resistance to age manip via time manip

Characters with space time manipulation can bypass durability with their abilities.
'Space-Time Manipulation - Characters who have the ability to manipulate space and time, can easily bypass physical durability of objects. Conventional durability does not matter, because the matter is secondary in relation to space and time. For example, it's as easy to distort a material object by distorting a portion of the space in which it is located. Or the object can simply be destroyed through speeding up entropy.'

 

[NXCHT.66]

Discuss by going through each topic one by one.

Eon:
1) Class P Lifting Strength upgrade:

Lifting Strength: Class P (Physically kept up with Diamondhead)

Looks alright.

2) Causality Manipulation addition:

Causality Manipulation with Chrononavigator (If desired, the Chrono Navigator can destroy all of existence, all of time and causality itself. "All of existence" refers to the realm of the timestream)

Looks alright. (Both Paradox and Eon have Causality Manipulation along with the Chrono Navigator, so we should add Causality Manipulation to the Chrono Navigator first)

3) Durability Negation:

Durability Negation (Can ignore durability with Age Manipulation)

Age Manipulation is already a form of Durability Negation in itself, so I disagree with this "REASONING". However, if you have a supporting argument for Durability Negation, I will reconsider it.

Professor Paradox:
Class P and Multi-Stellar Lifting Strength upgrade:

Lifting Strength: Class P (Physically kept up with Eon), Multi-Stellar via Telekinesis (Moved a massive nebula outside the Universe)

I suppose but I think it should be something like this.

Lifting Strength: Class P (...), Multi-Stellar via Telekinesis or maybe Space-Time manip (...), Unknown

Feedback:
1) Class M and Immeasurable Lifting Strength upgrade for Omniverse Key:

Lifting Strength: Class M (Physically restrained Phil Billings who could overpower Frankenstrike), Varies, at most Immeasurable with Energy Absorption (Lifted and Carried the creation of the Annihilargh post absorbtion)

Should be usable.

2) Durability Negation addition:

Durability Negation (Can negate durability with life force absorption)

Looks alright.

Alien X:
3) Light Manipulation and Aura:

Light Manipulation and Aura (Can create light around him while flying)

Looks alright.
For the rest:

1) Non-Physical Interaction addition:

Non-Physical Interaction (Can destroy all of existence and Celestialsapiens are said to change the entire cosmology which includes species of Zs'Skayr and Bigchill. Superior to the likes of Bigchill who can interact with his species)

2) Conceptual Manipulation addition:

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1; Paradox in his debut episode mentions about Transtemporal Metaphysics. Transtemporal means something related to temporality in this context while Metaphysics is the division of philosophy that is concerned with the fundamental nature of reality and being and that includes ontology, cosmology, and often epistemology implying the fundamental nature of temporality. As if the fundamental/universal idea of space-time origins from somewhere which in this case would be the Forge of Creation, a realm where the entire verse began, a place where the Celestialsapiens reside)

4) Abstract Existence:

Abstract Existence (Type 1; Serena and Bellicus exist as ideas of Love and Rage. They lack a physical form due to Incorporeality and merely exist as an avatar. Alien X can only be affected by harming his debate dimension along with his consciousness, thanks to his Type 9 Immortality)

I'm not sure about all of this, so I'll remain neutral for now and wait for more arguments.

For Way Big, Chromastone and Contumelia
Looks alright.

 

[Hellformer]

Bump

 

[Hellformer]

Added Low Godly regen for Alien X

Will go over later tonight.

Can you please check out other stuff as well in case you're free?

 

[Firestorm808]

Feedback:
1) Class M and Immeasurable Lifting Strength upgrade for Omniverse Key:

Lifting Strength: Class M (Physically restrained Phil Billings who could overpower Frankenstrike), Varies, at most Immeasurable with Energy Absorption (Lifted and Carried the creation of Annihilargh post absorbtion)

It has already been accepted that Feedback's physical stats vary with energy absorption so it's pretty safe to go with.
I suppose.

2) Durability Negation addition:

Durability Negation (Can negate durability with life force absorption)

Energy Manipulation - Unconventional use of energy attacks may be able to bypass the body's natural defenses.
Just label it as general energy manip and absorp. IDK if it was explicitly life force.

Alien X:
1) Non-Physical Interaction addition:

Non-Physical Interaction (Can destroy all of existence and Celestialsapiens are said to change the entire cosmology which includes species of Zs'Skayr and Bigchill. Superior to the likes of Bigchill who can interact with his species)

I found the first argument of NPI on Zeno's profile so thought of applying it over here. In case the staffs disagree, we can go with the 2nd argument i.e Superior to the likes of Bigchill

I suppose.

2) Conceptual Manipulation addition:

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1; Paradox in his debut episode mentions about Transtemporal Metaphysics. Transtemporal means something related to temporality in this context while Metaphysics is the division of philosophy that is concerned with the fundamental nature of reality and being and that includes ontology, cosmology, and often epistemology implying the fundamental nature of temporality. As if the fundamental/universal idea of space-time origins from somewhere which in this case would be the Forge of Creation, a realm where the entire verse began, a place where the Celestialsapiens reside)

Note: The Universe is made by the contumelias hence in the above context, it must refer to the entire verse as a whole.

I don't think this applies. How does this meet our site definition?

3) Light Manipulation and Aura:

Light Manipulation and Aura (Can create light around him while flying)

Okay.

4) Abstract Existence:

Abstract Existence (Type 1; Serena and Bellicus embody the ideas of Love and Rage. They lack a physical form due to Incorporeality and merely exist as an avatar. Alien X can only be affected by harming his debate dimension along with his consciousness considering how Galactic Gladiator focused on shaking the dimension, thanks to his Type 9 Immortality)

Reason for Celestialsapien's existence being abstract:
Embodying a concept is not enough to obtain this ability, an abstract needs feats or reliable statements proving that the concept they represent grants them Immortality/Regeneration or control over the abstraction (This abstraction gives Alien X Type 9 Immortality)
Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars
All these requirements are seen in a Celestialsapien since they exist as avatars and the opponent must have 1-B range to affect the consciousness.

I'm not sure this applies.

5) Low-Godly Regen:

Regeneration (Low-Godly; Comparable to Galactic Gladiator who could regenerate with the help of his consciousness after being completely destroyed by a galaxy sized blackhole and able to regenerate his physical body from inside his pocket dimension as thats where their thoughts, decisions, actions and abilities come from)

Low-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of the user's body, instead restoring it from their disembodied consciousness, whether that be their soul, mind, some other non-physical aspect of themself, esoteric or metaphysical energy, or something else.
I made specific texts bold which match with the reasoning for Alien X's regen.
And yes the blackhole did destroy GG's avatar, I've posted snapshots of the destruction of his body over here.

Please refer to the previous thread that lowered the prior regen rating.

Waybig:
Waybig should get a seperate key for his Classic/OV Flashback counterpart just how the other aliens have.

Tier: 5-A | High 5-A | 4-B, possibly 4-A

Key: Classic/OV Flashback | UAF and Omniverse base | Ultimate Form

Okay.

Chromastone:
Stellar Range:

Range: Standard Melee Range, Tens of Meters with abilities, Stellar with his crystal (Sugilite recreated petropia on the range of the background stars)

Isn't Sugilite still next to the planet when he remade it? Why stellar?

Contumelia:
Teleportation:

Teleportation (Demonstrated over here)

Okay.

 

[Hellformer]

2) Durability Negation addition:

Energy Manipulation - Unconventional use of energy attacks may be able to bypass the body's natural defenses.
Just label it as general energy manip and absorp. IDK if it was explicitly life force.

Okay

2) Conceptual Manipulation addition:

Note: The Universe is made by the contumelias hence in the above context, it must refer to the entire verse as a whole.

I don't think this applies. How does this meet our site definition?

Summarising my point, the fundamental/universal idea of space-time origins from the Forge of Creation.
Giving the user the ability to create fundamental principles that govern reality and the world around them

4) Abstract Existence:

Reason for Celestialsapien's existence being abstract:
Embodying a concept is not enough to obtain this ability, an abstract needs feats or reliable statements proving that the concept they represent grants them Immortality/Regeneration or control over the abstraction (This abstraction gives Alien X Type 9 Immortality)
Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars
All these requirements are seen in a Celestialsapien since they exist as avatars and the opponent must have 1-B range to affect the consciousness.

I'm not sure this applies.

What reason does it lack? I mean I've quoted stuff from the site to solidify my evidence.
1) Serena and Bellicus exist as ideas of Love and Rage
2) These consciousness grant Alien X Type 9 Immortality
3) The body of Alien X is an avatar via which the consciousness can interact

All of these conditions fulfill necessary requirements for abstract existence Type 1 and I've quoted specific requirements in the OP

5) Low-Godly Regen:

Low-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of the user's body, instead restoring it from their disembodied consciousness, whether that be their soul, mind, some other non-physical aspect of themself, esoteric or metaphysical energy, or something else.
I made specific texts bold which match with the reasoning for Alien X's regen.
And yes the blackhole did destroy GG's avatar, I've posted snapshots of the destruction of his body over here.

Please refer to the previous thread that lowered the prior regen rating.

Yes I did and according to that thread, the blackhole served as a teleporter as per the OP but I just don't see how thats true because we literally see him being destroyed. I've given the link where there are snapshots of GG being completely destroyed.

Chromastone:
Stellar Range:


Isn't Sugilite still next to the planet when he remade it? Why stellar?

He was next to the 3 stars

 

[NXCHT.66]

After I saw the snapshot, it was pretty clear that GG's body was completely destroyed by Alien X's black hole. (I mean the part of his body that was completely sucked, for example his legs.)

 

[Hellformer]

After I saw the snapshot, it was pretty clear that GG's body was completely destroyed by Alien X's black hole. (I mean the part of his body that was completely sucked, for example his legs.)

Do you agree with Low Godly regen?