Hellsing: Alucard Issues and Additions (Part 1)

[Random-Helper323]

Anyway, let's leave this unpleasantness behind us. I'll keep a close eye on my mood given the day I've had, and remain calm.

Weekly, again I genuinely feel bad for the outburst, I'm sorry, and onto the subject, one thing I noticed regarding the OP, is that the scan with Richard shows him sweating bullets right after Alucard makes noise. A large reaction to mere noise. Not total proof of fear hax, but not exactly contrary either. In all honesty, LordGinSama knows the fear hax stuff more than I do, I'm more the two layers of mind hax and universal energy system person (although the latter was both of us), as well as just knowing the verse well. For what it's worth, I think Ryuko's good too. The girl who stood up to Ragyo's god complex and showed her what happens to sickos like her.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Two layers, that's what I'm saying. I don't know about negation.

Yeah, one layer as opposed to two.

Fair

They explicitly freaked out before that, the moment he declared he was a self-harming flightless bird with an overly edgy nickname.

It's the fact that everyone from humans to the Captain all freaked out simultaneously, like flicking a switch, despite not being in sync otherwise at all.

Could you post a scan of that? From the manga stuff i found it shows them freaking out only after the army starts advancing on london in a tidal wave of corpses, which is further supplemented by the anime version of the scene where they all notice him about to unlock his full power and attack him trying to kill him before he can unleash it

It's more that many soul hax can't target more than one soul at a time, or can't reach a soul in hammer space. It's an unconventional form of defence.

Ye, that wouldnt really be resistance, just an unconventional means of avoiding soul damage

In all fairness, I've seen you hate on stuff because it rivalled your verse in VS forums, and there are many people who do the same, even if a self-improvement nut like me sees that as an unhealthy way of thinking. Although unless the verse is literally written to attack real life people or includes some truly awful moral ideals, it's an unhealthy waste of energy to hate on just about any verse.

In regards to revisions, knee-jerk reactions honestly mean little. Remember all the knee-jerk reactions over Goku vs Superman with people saying Superman does nothing to match DBZ in that Superman movie they saw with all the flying scenes and the funny costume, therefore Superman is weak. My initial knee-jerk response was to disagree with upgrades of this extent too. It was only after discussing it with LordGinSama that I altered some of my perspectives.

Its all good, admittedly i did used to do that a few years back, it took a lot a lot of work and a lot of therapy but im not that person anymore

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Anyway, let's leave this unpleasantness behind us. I'll keep a close eye on my mood given the day I've had, and remain calm.

Weekly, again I genuinely feel bad for the outburst, I'm sorry,

No worries, its all good, ive been there before so i completely understand ^-^

and onto the subject, one thing I noticed regarding the OP, is that the scan with Richard shows him sweating bullets right after Alucard makes noise. A large reaction to mere noise. Not total proof of fear hax, but not exactly contrary either. In all honesty, LordGinSama knows the fear hax stuff more than I do, I'm more the two layers of mind hax and universal energy system person (although the latter was both of us), as well as just knowing the verse well. For what it's worth, I think Ryuko's good too. The girl who stood up to Ragyo's god complex and showed her what happens to sickos like her.

I mean, yeah, if you walked into a dark dungeon chamber with a corpse on the floor and suddenly that corpse started moving and audibly eating blood off the floor, that would be pretty freaky to just about anyone, let alone a guy like Richard who was noted as being cowardly

 

[StrymULTRA]

Soul Manipulation (Possesses at least 120,000 souls inside his body)

• This wouldnt actually grant a resistance to soul manipulation. Having multiple souls doesnt mean they are able to resist soul manipulation any more than an individual soul does. His immortality via soul stock is already covered in his immortality section anyways.

This should still be an unconventional resistance, as the soul hax of the opponent should showcase to be able to affect that much amount of souls at once.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Fair

I don't know if resistance negation is different. That's LordGinSama'expertise. But I do see two layers of mental defence.

Could you post a scan of that? From the manga stuff i found it shows them freaking out only after the army starts advancing on london in a tidal wave of corpses, which is further supplemented by the anime version of the scene where they all notice him about to unlock his full power and attack him trying to kill him before he can unleash it

I'd have to dig it up. I'm talking about how Anderson and the Captain both sprang into action and were terrified.

Ye, that wouldnt really be resistance, just an unconventional means of avoiding soul damage

It's unconventional, but still, it works in many cases. Maybe some not could be made about the resistance being situational, or maybe just some note about the 120K souls and the fact they're stored in hammer space? I'm not the expert on one either; I only calculated the number of souls, which somehow had never happened before then. LordGinSama knows the soul resistance stuff more than me.

Its all good, admittedly i did used to do that a few years back, it took a lot a lot of work and a lot of therapy but im not that person anymore

I can honestly say that I don't think it's fair that out of all people, you seem to get the most crap. And it'd be highly hypocritical of me as a self-improvement nut to disregard anyone else's efforts to climb higher and be better than before. If anything it's impressive that you push for it at all, because most people refuse to.

Edit: my keyboard did something silly and posted early and I had to edit the rest in, so there's more than the original post.

 

[Random-Helper323]

No worries, its all good, ive been there before so i completely understand ^-^

Thanks for understanding.

I mean, yeah, if you walked into a dark dungeon chamber with a corpse on the floor and suddenly that corpse started moving and audibly eating blood off the floor, that would be pretty freaky to just about anyone, let alone a guy like Richard who was noted as being cowardly

True, it's just he wasn't sweating at all right before that.

 

[Armorchompy]

That depends on if what you just said is a legitimate question or an attempt at intimidation.

I would say neither, I think it's fair to be annoyed at that response, but that's past now.

Anyways, the Souls thing is definitely a resistance, you'd just probably list it under Multiple Selves instead.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I would say neither, I think it's fair to be annoyed at that response, but that's past now.

Okay. Like I said, stressful day, and I'm currently cooking (food and drink, not drugs) and preparing to work out, so I'll be okay now.

Anyways, the Souls thing is definitely a resistance, you'd just probably list it under Multiple Selves instead.

It's highly unconventional. I mean who resists soul hax by having 120,000 of them and having them in the magic satchel along with bodies to go with those souls, all their clothes including their outfit from the nut house and apparently their lady parts as well? What the hell?

I guess it could be argued to be incorporeal souls, since they're in hammer space. Multiple incorporeal souls? Does that sound right?

 

[Armorchompy]

idk

 

[WeeklyBattles]

currently cooking (food and drink, not drugs) and preparing to work out, so I'll be okay now.

It's highly unconventional. I mean who resists soul hax by having 120,000 of them and having them in the magic satchel along with bodies to go with those souls, all their clothes including their outfit from the nut house and apparently their lady parts as well? What the hell?

I guess it could be argued to be incorporeal souls, since they're in hammer space. Multiple incorporeal souls? Does that sound right?

If you can grab proof of them existing in a literal hammerspace that could be Type 9 immortality

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I don't know if resistance negation is different. That's LordGinSama'expertise. But I do see two layers of mental defence.

Yeah resistance negation is different from hax potency, and its kinda hard to prove without a direct statement of ignoring a resistance

I'd have to dig it up. I'm talking about how Anderson and the Captain both sprang into action and were terrified.

Ye, they sensed that he was unleashing his full power and realized they would be in danger if they didnt kill him. As a comparison, it would be like giving Goku fear manip for scaring Gohan and Frieza with his power the first time he went super saiyan

It's unconventional, but still, it works in many cases. Maybe some not could be made about the resistance being situational, or maybe just some note about the 120K souls and the fact they're stored in hammer space? I'm not the expert on one either; I only calculated the number of souls, which somehow had never happened before then. LordGinSama knows the soul resistance stuff more than me.

Ye, ive asked him to chime in when he gets the time, but like i said this could qualify as Type 9 if there is proof that his souls exist in a literal hammerspace

I can honestly say that I don't think it's fair that out of all people, you seem to get the most crap. And it'd be highly hypocritical of me as a self-improvement nut to disregard anyone else's efforts to climb higher and be better than before. If anything it's impressive that you push for it at all, because most people refuse to.

 

[Random-Helper323]

If you can grab proof of them existing in a literal hammerspace that could be Type 9 immortality

ive asked him to chime in when he gets the time, but like i said this could qualify as Type 9 if there is proof that his souls exist in a literal hammerspace

I think the key to that is that if Alucard physically contained all of it at once he'd weigh thousands of tons, which we know he doesn't or he couldn't get in any vehicle, let alone a flying one. Hammerspace exists elsewhere in Hellsing too, with Anderson somehow pulling all those bayonets out of his coat.

Yeah resistance negation is different from hax potency, and its kinda hard to prove without a direct statement of ignoring a resistance

I don't know if that exists. That's Gin's expertise. It's pretty clear a higher level of resistance exists though, which is a solid one.

Ye, they sensed that he was unleashing his full power and realized they would be in danger if they didnt kill him. As a comparison, it would be like giving Goku fear manip for scaring Gohan and Frieza with his power the first time he went super saiyan

Do Anderson and the Captain have those senses though? DB has very well established power level sensing, after all.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I think the key to that is that if Alucard physically contained all of it at once he'd weigh thousands of tons, which we know he doesn't or he couldn't get in any vehicle, let alone a flying one. Hammerspace exists elsewhere in Hellsing too, with Anderson somehow pulling all those bayonets out of his coat.

I don't know if that exists. That's Gin's expertise. It's pretty clear a higher level of resistance exists though, which is a solid one.

Best to wait for Gin then

Do Anderson and the Captain have those senses though? DB has very well established power level sensing, after all.

Its less them having senses and more that him activating Level 0 was palpable and everyone around him felt it

 

[LordGinSama]

What was I summoned about on particular this time?

 

[LordGinSama]

Its all good, admittedly i did used to do that a few years back, it took a lot a lot of work and a lot of therapy but im not that person anymore

Made for funny memories at least lol.

I don't know if resistance negation is different. That's LordGinSama'expertise. But I do see two layers of mental defence.

To clarify; I have no ******* idea who added the resistance negation or even why it was added in the first place. I believe that was added years ago, as to why I'm unsure.

 

[The_Pink_God]

I think I understand the Hammerspace argument

• Blood is currency of the soul, to suck someone's blood is to suck their soul
• Alucard has 120 thousand (+ his own) souls inside his body, meaning he would have the blood of 120 thousand people
• The blood of 120 thousand people would weigh roughly around 636000 kg
• Alucard definitely does not have a weight of 636 thousand kilograms, seen as his steps don't crack the ground and he can ride planes with no problem
• This must mean Alucard souls are in some sort of available alternate "Space" that he can freely interact with to use the souls he need

 

[WeeklyBattles]

While that maes sense on paper, in practice thats kinda shaky reasoning for type 9 without a direct statement that he has an actual pocket reality to store that blood

 

[The_Pink_God]

Well unless you wanna accept that Alucard is heavier than a commercial airplane
Then something is definitely happening with that blood of his

 

[LordGinSama]

Well unless you wanna accept that Alucard is heavier than a commercial airplane
Then something is definitely happening with that blood of his

Not to mention level 0 which also releases the bodies that he stole as well, so even anything he'd be significantly heavier than what you said before if we assumed he didn't have a hammerspace of any sorts.

 

[Ped2018]

Hmm, but this does sound more like a "possibly" or "likely" tbh

 

[WeeklyBattles]

A possibly could work sure

 

[LordGinSama]

A possibly could work sure

A possibly would insinuate that there's an argument that Alucard weights significantly more than an airline plane which could be used for calculations.


I think we can both agree that's bullshit ergo an outright "Likely." is more suitable since that disqualifies the possibility of Alucard weighting that much to avoid inflation for calculations and such

 

[The_Pink_God]

I'm fine with either Possibly or Likely, although I do think Likely sounds better and just is better in context

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Ahhh I missed a lot

Gimme a sec

 

[Creaturemaster971]

It's something that's never shown by the priest, or even by Seras. Only Alucard.

I know, exactly my point. The priest never shows off any proper abilities because he doesn't last long enough, so all we really have to go off of is Alucard's word and Seras's example.

If most or all vampires could turn into bats, Anderson who kills them all the time would be more familiar with the ability.

There's nothing that really implies Anderson was or wasn't unfamiliar with bats as a vampire ability.

Power and range. It reached all the way across London, and it grabbed every individual drop of blood all over the city too, which requires precision. You know that if you suck up a blood puddle it doesn't all move together, right? What you've got a grip on moves and the rest stays. It certainly leaves stains, but apparently not when Alucard moves it.

Yeah but Alucard, and by extent all true vampires, literally have blood absorption as their whole thing. I don't think it's reasonable to assume the absorption and TK are tied to the same mechanics.

Same line of powers, her abilities are a copy of Alucard's, Alucard has also cast illusions with his eyes, and it's a literal third eye. If anything we need a reason to believe it's a different thing.

For one, Alucard doesn't cast illusions. He conjures decoy bodies yes, but that's very different from literlaly trapping someone in a trauma simulation.
Two, Alucard is never shown using or mentioning the third eye when he mind controls people. It is treated purely as a sensory thing that enhances their vision and lets them see through illusions.
As another, no we don't. Her third eye is completely different from theirs in every respect. Different placement, appearance, usage, visual effects, everything.

That's very misleading, what you're doing. Walter states that they're imitating Alucard, not me. The doctor states that without Mina their vampire research wouldn't have gone anywhere, their research has always been them using Mina's body in some manner to make their vampires, and Mina is literally just a vampire with Alucard's blood, but with nowhere near as much power. They might as well have scraped up his shed dandruff and used that. What do you call what they're doing, if not copying Alucard's abilities?

Mina is a freaky aberrant created by a human drinking from a vampire while the vampire drinks from them. She is not a normal vampire in the least.

Alucard stated that Luke was above any other vampire Alucard had met. Obviously other vampires had never come anywhere near as far. Although just because they lack a physical third eye like Zorin or strong illusion abilities doesn't mean they lack all the abilities.

But the burden of proof is to prove that they do have these abilities.

The bullet from the Jackal moved fast enough to catch him easily. He previously dodged and even outran bullets - from the Casull. You know why the different gun is significant, I hope. And before you say it, Luke dodging Jackal rounds is only in the OVA.

Oh shit is it? So the wall-breaking moment doesn't happen in the manga?

You'd need more than these speculations to prove Luke was faster than the guy he couldn't escape from.

I mean it's mostly just from observing that Luke was dodging everything and Alucard was genuinely impressed with his speed "above even the highest category of vampire". And why would Alucard heap so much praise on Luke's abilities when puppeted by Walter if, to Alucard, it was nothing special?

Luke was a test, nothing more. The Major fully expected Luke to fail, and so did the doctor. It was Tubalcain the doctor expected to succeed, but the Major knew he'd fail too.

Scans? Again, not doubting your claim I just don't remember that.
Also that would be interesting for scaling purposes. I wouldn't have assumed there was evidence to scale Tubal above Luke.

Answered this. She is the same as Seras, a girl Alucard turned into a vampire. You know how Seras can unlock great abilities due to Alucard's blood in her? Mina is that, except a weaker person, never learned to use her power, never absorbed a familiar and made by a likely weaker Alucard.

"Luke's speed" when Walter uses him is literally Walter's speed. Luke can't move, Walter is moving him like a puppet. And again, proving Luke who has no higher speed feats, was only ever a test, and was unable to outrun Jackal bullets, was faster than the characters who are far above him in both feats and scaling, will take more than this speculation.

Again, then why would Alucard be complimenting Luke's abilities?

The issue is, you're taking a character with telekinesis abilities with a lot of strength, and weather control feats of far greater strength and range than the blood movement, seeing him moving lots of blood with his mind, and assuming that ability is somehow unigue to blood.

Yes because blood absorption is kind of a special, distinct thing for vampires, and yes because his telekinesis is otherwise shown to function very differently from the blood absorbing scene.

The problem is that by the rules you're suggesting no character would have fear hax. Because characters stronger than them in their own verse will pretty much always resist it.

That is not what I'm suggesting at all.
I think there are three different types of fear-inducement, which should be categorized differently.
1. Other characters sense how dangerous they are and get scared
2. They induce fear in the enemy by letting them know how dangerous they are (Alucard, Claire Stanfield)
3. They induce fear in the enemy regardless of how dangerous they are (Toepick, Nagisa, that one SCP with primal fear abilities)

I said she never showed the ability to transform fully. You said yourself only her arm transforms. That's a far cry from transforming her whole body. Considering that the subject was turning into mist and swarms of bats I had hoped it would be obvious what I meant, but I guess not.

That is fair, I just think it does give evidence for transformation being a thing innate to vampires.

Not really. Again, name one other vampire aside from Alucard who can turn into mist or bats, and the priest couldn't heal gunshot wounds from the Casull either. The only difference was how Lief couldn't defend himself without any bullets, which was to do with level of strength and skill, and Luke, Jan and the soldier vampires were all better than that, given Jan overwhelmed Walter and the soldiers slaughtered armoured mercenaries armed with silver bullets.

Fair fair. Damn this is really making me wish the priest hadn't died so fast. Or at least that there was more worldbuilding.

We know they have some level of the power, especially given how accurately Rip can aim her bullet.

So are you saying that you think all of the higher-level Millenium vampires' unique abilities may be differing, flawed applications of the third eye?

I assume you mean the age old argument that he gets shredded by bullets? Even though Anderson is bulletproof, and even though numerous verses treat piercing damage seperately, which is also accurate to real life?

No no no, the thing about the souls
Lemme go get it

I agree with everything so far.

Also I have heard many pieces of information regarding Alucard's strengths and weaknesses that appear to be either headcanon, or at the very least I have never seen backed up by sufficient sources.

First and foremost is the ease with which he can can completely absorb someone. I have heard claims that he is able to do so simply by coming into contact with their blood, and vice versa. As far as I am aware, this is never indicated. Alucard has only been shown to have absorbed the souls and abilities of those he has actually properly fed off of, and it is never done through mere contact. This is supported by, well, everything about Seras's journey to becoming a True Vampire by drinking blood.

Secondly there is his weakness section. There is a pervasive idea that by entering Level 0, Alucard uses up his sock of souls and can now physically be killed, as well as the notion that a strike to the heart uses more of his souls than other injuries.
As far as I'm aware, this is also something that is never remotely indicated, and if it is I would like to see the scans in question.

This part

 

[DontTalkDT]

What's in the OP sounds ok.

 

[The_Pink_God]

Bump

 

[WeeklyBattles]

So is this okay to apply? Is there anything else that needs to be discussed?

 

[The_Pink_God]

If by "this" you mean all that was discussed here in the thread, then yeah
Although some peeps are still on with the Fear stuff
But I'd say that aside from that, everything is fine really

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

So is this okay to apply? Is there anything else that needs to be discussed?

One staff member agreed, and you need at least 2 to 3

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Yeah the only thing that's really still being contested is the fear stuff.
The third eye and TK stuff seems like it's just a matter of interpretation at this point so we might need a vote.

And we still haven't addressed my concerns about the Weakness section

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Honestly the majority of fear manip stuff would fit better under social influencing as it was just Al actively being intimidating. The closest thing to fear manip would be the thing from him transforming into level 0, but even then that's more just the people around him being freaked out by the power he was exuding rather than actual fear manip.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Out of curiosity, your next CRT will be about what?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Out of curiosity, your next CRT will be about what?

AP and Durability issues that me and gin have found

 

[Robo432343]

dawg can i just say alucard should have limited godly regen on his post schro key?
the reason why he came back is because he had those souls
he doesn't have them anymore in this key

 

[The_Pink_God]

dawg can i just say alucard should have limited godly regen on his post schro key?
the reason why he came back is because he had those souls
he doesn't have them anymore in this key

His Post-Schrodinger works on a completely different Immortality system, what?

 

[The_Pink_God]

AP and Durability issues that me and gin have found

You and Gin? Oh well it was good having High 7-C Alucard while it was a thing

 

[WeeklyBattles]

You and Gin? Oh well it was good having High 7-C Alucard while it was a thing

He'll still have high 7-C it's just likely to be changed to via TK or environmental destruction

 

[Robo432343]

His Post-Schrodinger works on a completely different Immortality system, what?

what? thats not even what i was arguing
"At least Low-Godly - Came back after having his existence erased"
he came back because he had the 30,000 souls with him
he doesn't have them anymore because he killed them all in his post schro key
so it should be limited low godly

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Isnt it implied that he didnt kill schrodinger's soul so he could both come back and still have an extra soul stock?