9-A+ Tournament Round 1 Match 1. Arthur vs The Penitent One

[Peppersalt43]

Demon killing Knight : 0
Angel killing Knight : 0
Incon : 7

Ghouls n' Ghosts equipment for Arthur
Speed equalized
Everything above 9-A is restricted
Starting distance is 10 meters

This is a cool match

 

[Antoniofer]

Its late, and tomorrow I have the refrigeration class, so wouldn't be able to comment until at least 12 hours had passed.

 

[SamanPatou]

Well, Jando of the Three Sisters is really broken

Anyway, I know nothing about Blasphemous, so this debate will be a beatiful dialogue.
From what I see, their AP is almost the same, TPO being 0.24 tons and Arthur 0.20, although TPO can increase the damage.

Arthur has ludicrously higher LS, and although neither of them are grapplers, parrying Arthur's weapons will be harder than normal and TPO would be pushed away or thrown off balance while trying to shield himself, although he wouldn't take relevant damage.
I must say I wasn't sure of this myself, given how things work irl, but after asking a calc member, this seems to be the case.

As he usually does in battle, Arthur will attempt to zone TPO out as much as he can can, running and jumping around to prevent him from getting close, all while he throws his weapons.
I'm not sure if talking about skills makes sense, since TPO also went through a similar journey (although it might be said that Arthur had more adventures? idk) and are pretty battle and life-savvy.

I'm not sure how well TPO will do in closing the distance and get into melee with Mea Culpa, as Arthur's whole bread and butter for his entire life is blasting the enemies with various weapons and stuff.
On his own, TPO has handy rosary beads that make him resistant to a good deal of Arthur's esoteric spells, and that's a plus for him.
TPO would also have to rely on his ranged attacks, if he fails to get into CQC. His file says he has limited mana, how does it work? Does it recharged overtime? How many spells can he cast? That could be a plus for Arthur, given that he has basically infinite magic and only needs a few seconds to charge his spells (and can do it while moving and jumping).

Most of both's magicks work better at close range (at least from what I see here), and while Arthur can fight well even without them, TPO seems to need to rely much on them.
That said, Jando of the Three Sisters seems an instant win, so if he pulls it out, he wins.
How does Tiento to Your Thorned Hairs work specifically? The in-game description, from what I read, says it protects TPO from all evil. Does it refer to any attempt at harming him, or is it specifically a protection against evil beings and powers? Because if the latter is true, then it might fail to protect him against Arthur.

Take everything I just said with a grain of salt, and this is far from a vote, it's just a first step while we wait for Antoniofer's input.

 

[Antoniofer]

Well, Jando of the Three Sisters is really broken

Curiously, Jando of the Three Sister is not very useful in a one-to-ne combat, is better to use it against masses of enemies, and it not a necessary an instant kill. Of course, this is just an in-game example, perhaps it can be more lethal.

His file says he has limited mana, how does it work? Does it recharged overtime? How many spells can he cast? That could be a plus for Arthur, given that he has basically infinite magic and only needs a few seconds to charge his spells (and can do it while moving and jumping)

He has a the anmed Fervour, that refill everytime that he cause damage or performs an exacution. There's also rossary beads that accelerate the rate at which the Fervour refill with damage, a bead that turns his flasks into Fervour refilling instead of healing damage, and even a bead that slowly regenerates his Fervour reserves. Alternatively, he can pay a little of health to increase the Fervour reserves.

As for how many spells can he cast, depends of the Prayer, as the weaker ones can be cast up to 16 times, whenever teh strongest ones can be cast 4 or 3 times. There's also an add on of Mea Culpa that increases the cost of Prayers, but it also increases the potency and the effect duration of these powers.

Most of both's magicks work better at close range (at least from what I see here), and while Arthur can fight well even without them, TPO seems to need to rely much on them.

There's a few of Prayers that has ranged, albeit small (at the end, they are limited to cover the screen, and little more). Taranto a la Hermana Mia summons a bunchs of lightning, Lorquiana launch a some beam that affect everyone in a straight line, meanwhile Debla de las Luces covers a vertical line of around 3 meters diameter. Having experience with Doña Horrores Our Lady of the CHarred Visage, at least in game TPO has trouble dealing with ranged attacks when they come in great number. Zarabando of the Safe Haven is a useful prayer to defend against incoing proyectiles in any case.

How does Tiento to Your Thorned Hairs work specifically? The in-game description, from what I read, says it protects TPO from all evil. Does it refer to any attempt at harming him, or is it specifically a protection against evil beings and powers? Because if the latter is true, then it might fail to protect him against Arthur.

Is basically a temporal invincibility.

 

[SamanPatou]

Curiously, Jando of the Three Sister is not very useful in a one-to-ne combat, is better to use it against masses of enemies, and it not a necessary an instant kill. Of course, this is just an in-game example, perhaps it can be more lethal.

Doesn't it depend on how we interpret its description in relation to game mechanics? Because it says it shatters the bones and scrambles the organs.

He has a the anmed Fervour, that refill everytime that he cause damage or performs an exacution. There's also rossary beads that accelerate the rate at which the Fervour refill with damage, a bead that turns his flasks into Fervour refilling instead of healing damage, and even a bead that slowly regenerates his Fervour reserves. Alternatively, he can pay a little of health to increase the Fervour reserves.
As for how many spells can he cast, depends of the Prayer, as the weaker ones can be cast up to 16 times, whenever teh strongest ones can be cast 4 or 3 times. There's also an add on of Mea Culpa that increases the cost of Prayers, but it also increases the potency and the effect duration of these powers.

Then I guess he can sorta keep up, although at a slower pace?

There's a few of Prayers that has ranged, albeit small (at the end, they are limited to cover the screen, and little more). Taranto a la Hermana Mia summons a bunchs of lightning, Lorquiana launch a some beam that affect everyone in a straight line, meanwhile Debla de las Luces covers a vertical line of around 3 meters diameter. Having experience with Doña Horrores Our Lady of the CHarred Visage, at least in game TPO has trouble dealing with ranged attacks when they come in great number. Zarabando of the Safe Haven is a useful prayer to defend against incoing proyectiles in any case.

I might dare to say these are all things Arthur has already dealt with, or at least they are recurring types of attacks he has to dodge.
Zarabando is indeed useful, but striking through the barriers shouldn't be impossible for Arthur, given how often he needed to strike precise spots on the opponent's body, as all the rest was impervious.
And how much this "great number" amount has to be? Because normally, Arthur can throw an infinite amount of any of his weapons in rapid fire. His Double Magic also creates a clone that mimics his movements for awhile, basically doubling the fire rate.

Is basically a temporal invincibility.

I get it, but I wanted to ask your opinion about its description saying it protects TPO from "all evil". If there was reason to believe (maybe because of lore stuff) that it protects him only from attacks delivered by evil beings, or can be safely considered as anything that would damage him.

 

[Antoniofer]

Doesn't it depend on how we interpret its description in relation to game mechanics? Because it says it shatters the bones and scrambles the organs.

A curiosity comment more than anything.

Then I guess he can sorta keep up, although at a slower pace?

With the appropiated bead, it does not take more than 2 minutes of waiting to refill the entire Fervour bar. Although, executing a prayer take some minor time (can be accelerated with the appropiated bead) and have a coll down of few seconds (if TPA has one of the Mea Culpa add-on, the one that increases the potency of the prayer, then the cool down take moderately more time).

I might dare to say these are all things Arthur has already dealt with, or at least they are recurring types of attacks he has to dodge.
Zarabando is indeed useful, but striking through the barriers shouldn't be impossible for Arthur, given how often he needed to strike precise spots on the opponent's body, as all the rest was impervious.
And how much this "great number" amount has to be? Because normally, Arthur can throw an infinite amount of any of his weapons in rapid fire. His Double Magic also creates a clone that mimics his movements for awhile, basically doubling the fire rate.

The shields fly around TPO for a couple of seconds, and they also induce damage at contact; is not infalible, but between dodging anfd parrying, it increases TPO's defenses considerably.
As for what is considered a great number of proyectiles, I believe the boss fight against Our Lady of the Charred Visage is the closest to the concept of Bullet Hell.

I get it, but I wanted to ask your opinion about its description saying it protects TPO from "all evil". If there was reason to believe (maybe because of lore stuff) that it protects him only from attacks delivered by evil beings, or can be safely considered as anything that would damage him.

The game or lore don't elaborate about that, as for the setting conscern, evyone has some level of madness. In any case, this is the only thing mentioned in the prayer's lore:

If your name is Tentudía
She who left to join the nuns
Do not grieve or endure affliction
For with your unjust damnation
The Miracles you gave us

If your hair has turned to bramble
That on your pale neck draws blood
Do not grieve or endure affliction
For we present you with this song
That might tear away each thorn.

 

[SamanPatou]

A curiosity comment more than anything.

Meaning that it could be flowery words? I might have been deceived by the fact normal monsters get oneshot, but maybe stronger ones don't?

The shields fly around TPO for a couple of seconds, and they also induce damage at contact; is not infalible, but between dodging anfd parrying, it increases TPO's defenses considerably.

Totally, I wasn't questioning that.

As for what is considered a great number of proyectiles, I believe the boss fight against Our Lady of the Charred Visage is the closest to the concept of Bullet Hell.

Arthur doesn't have that kind of pattern (although fireball and thunder magic have similar movements), his is more a continous stream of weapons being hurled in straight lines, across the ground or at angles. The closest thing to a bullet hell he possesses, his duplicating himself and start tossing knives.

The game or lore don't elaborate about that, as for the setting conscern, evyone has some level of madness. In any case, this is the only thing mentioned in the prayer's lore:

Imho we can also consider it full invulnerability, which will make him no-lol all of Arthur's projectiles.
However, the moment he realizes TPO isn't taking damage anymore, he'll employ the Joestar family's secret technique and flee until he makes sure the spell has wore off.

 

[Antoniofer]

Meaning that it could be flowery words? I might have been deceived by the fact normal monsters get oneshot, but maybe stronger ones don't?

When I played the game, I recall few enemies that did not die in one attack due the attack (including the guy with the bells and the fire spitting monsters, meanwhile the soldiers of the Anoited Legion are basically immune). Wouldn't say the description is completely flowery, but I wouldn't call it a necessary instant kill.

Imho we can also consider it full invulnerability, which will make him no-lol all of Arthur's projectiles.
However, the moment he realizes TPO isn't taking damage anymore, he'll employ the Joestar family's secret technique and flee until he makes sure the spell has wore off.

Guess avoiding here during the prayer is active is valid, TPO is unable to span continuous prayers, even less considering his limited fervor reserves.

Also, perhaps OP do not specify, but does the TPO benefit of all the beads at once? Normally, he can only be equipped with 8 at the time, but they are easily changeable as the prayers. Similar way, maybe OP should specify the Mea Culpa add-on to be used, but I'm sure he is not knowledgeable enough to say what is the specific available power.

 

[Cimafranca133]

Bump, idk who to vote

 

[SamanPatou]

Also, perhaps OP do not specify, but does the TPO benefit of all the beads at once? Normally, he can only be equipped with 8 at the time, but they are easily changeable as the prayers.

If he has all of them in his inventory by default, I guess he starts with 8 equipped but has to manually change them.

Similar way, maybe OP should specify the Mea Culpa add-on to be used, but I'm sure he is not knowledgeable enough to say what is the specific available power.

If they aren't all equipped by default, then idk how to solve this lol

 

[Cimafranca133]

If he has all of them in his inventory by default, I guess he starts with 8 equipped but has to manually change them.


If they aren't all equipped by default, then idk how to solve this lol

Screw it, I'm voting Incon

 

[Antoniofer]

If they aren't all equipped by default, then idk how to solve this lol

Counting the end of the game as for the last DLC, he only should have access to the Apodictic Heart of Mea Culpa, as once equipped, it cannot be removed. Otherwise, I would have equipped the Heart of Virtuous Pain, but is not very useful outside of the game, so maybe the Smoking Heart of Incense.

 

[SamanPatou]

I'd dare to say Arthur has more chances due to his infinite projetile spamming against TPO's limited counteroption (i.e. Fervor reserves), and with those consisting in attacks Arthur always deals with.

TPO would absolutely win if he were to get close, and has quite some chances of winning, the outcome of the battle is far from obvious. Arthur just seems to have slightly more chances to me, at least according to what's been told so far.

 

[Antoniofer]

Mmm, don't think I can add much more to TPO abilities repertory, the other powers are the blood blade, but the range is limited. So either he uses Tiento to Your Horned Hairs or Zarabando of the Safe Haven to get close enough with relative security, from where he'll get the melee advantage, or Arthur keep his distance and eventually defeat TPO. Given that the TPO also have ranged attacks, he is not completely helpless in ranged compat, is only that he wouldn't remain using Prayers for long (or at least, will need to wait until his reserves refill with time). Still don't known how good is Arthur in melee combat.

 

[SamanPatou]

TPO would absolutely win at melee range most of the times, as Arthur's specialty is keeping the distance, and TPO has more tools and experience in that regard.

Arthur isn’t helpless by no means if put at melee range, since he's decently good with the sword he has in this set of equipment and is often forced to fight in narrow spaces while swarmed by enemies, but he isn’t exaclty a melee fighter altogether.

A good bonus is the 10 meters starting distance, which is a good advantage for Arthur's spamming tactic, and for the rest I reference the previous posts.

 

[Antoniofer]

I believe 10 meters could be covered if TPO uses the Sacred Thrust with the appropiated bead (the toes that increases the thrust distance), and generally that attack repel physicla projectile attacks; but I believe that for him to start with that bead (that I, persoanlly, do not use) may be unlikely.

Being honest, I don't see immediate winner here, and I'm inclined to vote for Inconclusive.

 

[SamanPatou]

Yes, I'd also say incon is the best option too.

 

[koopa3144]

Incon FRA

 

[Cimafranca133]

Incon FRA

 

[SamanPatou]

Bomp

 

[Mariogoods]

I vote to Inconclusive FRA.

 

[Cimafranca133]

I believe 10 meters could be covered if TPO uses the Sacred Thrust with the appropiated bead (the toes that increases the thrust distance), and generally that attack repel physicla projectile attacks; but I believe that for him to start with that bead (that I, persoanlly, do not use) may be unlikely.

Being honest, I don't see immediate winner here, and I'm inclined to vote for Inconclusive.

Yes, I'd also say incon is the best option too.

Incon FRA

Incon FRA

I vote to Inconclusive FRA.

Incon: 5

 

[SamanPatou]

Bup

 

[Cimafranca133]

Bump

 

[Tllmbrg]

Incon FRA

 

[Cimafranca133]

Incon: 5

Incon FRA

Incon: 6

 

[Peppersalt43]

And just to get this concluded

Incon FRA

And that's grace, thank you everyone

{Also in case you're wondering, this is allowed based on this thread}

 

[SamanPatou]

@Peppersalt43 We have to do a coin toss, right?

 

[Peppersalt43]

@Peppersalt43 We have to do a coin toss, right?

I actually already did it. The Penitent One won that coin toss