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Hajime Nagumo vs Ji Ning

so we're using the low 5-B key aye? doesn't matter too much anyway since Ji Ning got some bullshit thought based soul shit, how many layers was it?
 
Since it will probably be needed I will post the hax scaling chain for the Arifureta Characters:

Soul Manip scaling (also apply to mind manip and other things do to the nature of spirit magic): Eri < Apostle Eri < Aiko < After Stories Aiko < pre-evolution magic Hajime party < post evolution magic Hajime party < Alva Divine Edict < Alvaheit Divine Edict < Zero Ehit Divine Edict < Zero Ehitorujue Divine Edict < Current Ehit Divine Edict < Current Ehitorujue Divine Edict < Soul Shell < Beginning of After Stories Hajime party < Apparition Gods < Beginning of Awakening Dragon Shadow < Middle of Awakening Dragon Shadow < Beginning of Onmyouji Arc Hajime party < Almost Awakened Dragon Shadow < Post Onmyouji Arc Hajime Party. It could probably be higher if using the soul manip of Zero from Laus and Alva, but since the last vol of Zero will come out next month I want to wait to see how they interact before including them in the current scaling chain.

So by the after stories they have around 20 layers of soul, mind, etc., both offensively and defensively, they can also increase with their layers if needed with willpower so that is something that can help them if they are outclassed. From what I know and see the nature of daos and ancient magic is similar, since both have inneherently law and concept manip, so that only left the numbers of layers that Ji have in this key.
 
Reploidnoridomix said:
so um,is this china char have any smurf power ? since mostly china char is very wank
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no from what i remember but you better believe it got some bullshit layered hax and ungodly skill!!! Since it's all about surpassing your ancestor's ancestor's ancestor's ancestor's ancestor's ancestor's ancestor's grandmaster's grandmaster!!!
 
Gonna need some citation on that scaling chain. Was it shown that a higher one is able to bypass the lower ones resistance? If so, can I see the scans?
 
Rikimarox2 said:
Gonna need some citation on that scaling chain. Was it shown that a higher one is able to bypass the lower ones resistance? If so, can I see the scans?
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Ehit Divine Edict ****** Hajime, then Hajime developed with willpower resistance, Ehit ****** him some more and then Hajime transcended his limit to fight back, Ehit used his Divine Edict with his full name which should had instantly killed Hajime and he resisted it. Also Ehit Divine Edict stopped the girls that wanted to help Hajime, but then Shea like Hajime developed a strong enough resistance to fight even when the other girls were unable to resist him, then happened various things and later when Ehit was gone Alva used his Divine Edict with his full name but since it was weaker than Ehit the girls had the ability to fight back. Soul Shell was a countermeasure that Hajime developed to never be affected again by Divine Edict and with it even people like Ryutarou group that before were helpless against Eri now could completely resist her shit, then the first time apparitions were introduced in the after stories there was a part were a random apparition was overcoming the Soul Shell protection (this thing are from the wn so I don't have the scans at hand but can search them if needed), then later Hajime group killed hundreds of thousands of them and in a later point Yue Divine Edict was ******* thousands of apparitions, and more things but the idea is already clear.
 
Orioreeem said:
Ji ning has countless layers of cm 2 via grand dao.
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I mean, just because Grand Daos are above normal daos don't mean that they have something like infinite layers, ancient magic by default is already cm 2 and the thing at this point is super layered, then when one reach the essence of a ancient magic one is far above any other user of ancient magic, then concept magic which is obtained by using the essence of all seven ancient magics is stronger with the ability to do anything the user wish. So just because is "countless" times stronger than don't mean it will just neg Hajime layers and all.
Noneless21 said:
and it's thought based i reckon?

if it's a yes, then it's a stomp as i expect from a Chinamen matchup
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This will sound really rude so sorry, but could you wait before talk? I mean, you yourself have said countless times that you are bad debating and don't know much about Arifureta, so I would want if possible that you wait until someone actually knowledgeable (like Pegasus, Community_Gamer or me) give their input first.

Even in the case that the "countless" layers could be used literally and thus they neg Hajime layers he still have a lot of options, his Willpower (the unique energy) can adapt to it, his supernatural will could make him grow until counter it (as if have done countless times before, for example when stomped by Ehit in their first encounter), his own ability with evolution magic (info manip type 2) could let him either manipulate abstract information to adapt to it easier of analyse it and develop counters (which he also have done so much before). That also wouldn't put him down do to effects of the smartphone (time manip) or would counter the army of artifacts, demons and apparitions inside the Miniature Garden with all their abilities.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
I mean, just because Grand Daos are above normal daos don't mean that they have something like infinite layers, ancient magic by default is already cm 2 and the thing at this point is super layered, then when one reach the essence of a ancient magic one is far above any other user of ancient magic, then concept magic which is obtained by using the essence of all seven ancient magics is stronger with the ability to do anything the user wish. So just because is "countless" times stronger than don't mean it will just neg Hajime layers and all.

This will sound really rude so sorry, but could you wait before talk? I mean, you yourself have said countless times that you are bad debating and don't know much about Arifureta, so I would want if possible that you wait until someone actually knowledgeable (like Pegasus, Community_Gamer or me) give their input first.

Even in the case that the "countless" layers could be used literally and thus they neg Hajime layers he still have a lot of options, his Willpower (the unique energy) can adapt to it, his supernatural will could make him grow until counter it (as if have done countless times before, for example when stomped by Ehit in their first encounter), his own ability with evolution magic (info manip type 2) could let him either manipulate abstract information to adapt to it easier of analyse it and develop counters (which he also have done so much before). That also wouldn't put him down do to effects of the smartphone (time manip) or would counter the army of artifacts, demons and apparitions inside the Miniature Garden with all their abilities.
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Alright, imma go shut up now, but just fyi, iirc Ji Ning's CM type 2 is conceptual destruction, and there's no feat of Hajime ever block that, but given his smartphone can resurrect him, i'll just shut up now
 
Noneless21 said:
Alright, imma go shut up now, but just fyi, iirc Ji Ning's CM type 2 is conceptual destruction, and there's no feat of Hajime ever block that, but given his smartphone can resurrect him, i'll just shut up now
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Everyone who resisted ancient magic resist concept manip though, including concept destruction (like one of the things he resisted in his previous key was Ehit command to disappear via Divine Edict, which would be concept destruction), like even Ehit who have inferior willpower (not the unique energy) could adapt to resist conceptual info manip type 2 ee, so that isn't an argument.
 
Is divine edict specifically to destroy Hajime's concept? Like is there a statement to that?

I'm not knowledgeable on the ancient magic stuff, so I'd appreciate any scans.
 
Rikimarox2 said:
Is divine edict specifically to destroy Hajime's concept? Like is there a statement to that?

I'm not knowledgeable on the ancient magic stuff, so I'd appreciate any scans.
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Divine Edict do to affect be ancient magic affect the concept of the target, Edict give Hajime the command of disappear with his true name, which as result destroyed all his artifacts, poket dimension and was going to also destroy him but he then transcended his limits and resisted it.

Just look at the ancient magic part in the P&A section:
Law Manipulation, Limited Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2, Every ancient magic manipulate some fundamental abstract concept[16], capable of controlling the core elements that govern the laws of the world[17], can influence[18] and alter the fundamental laws of the universe[19], and concept magic which use the power of ancient magic can rewrite the laws of reality[20])
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Expectro2000xxx said:
Since it will probably be needed I will post the hax scaling chain for the Arifureta Characters:

Soul Manip scaling (also apply to mind manip and other things do to the nature of spirit magic): Eri < Apostle Eri < Aiko < After Stories Aiko < pre-evolution magic Hajime party < post evolution magic Hajime party < Alva Divine Edict < Alvaheit Divine Edict < Zero Ehit Divine Edict < Zero Ehitorujue Divine Edict < Current Ehit Divine Edict < Current Ehitorujue Divine Edict < Soul Shell < Beginning of After Stories Hajime party < Apparition Gods < Beginning of Awakening Dragon Shadow < Middle of Awakening Dragon Shadow < Beginning of Onmyouji Arc Hajime party < Almost Awakened Dragon Shadow < Post Onmyouji Arc Hajime Party. It could probably be higher if using the soul manip of Zero from Laus and Alva, but since the last vol of Zero will come out next month I want to wait to see how they interact before including them in the current scaling chain.

So by the after stories they have around 20 layers of soul, mind, etc., both offensively and defensively, they can also increase with their layers if needed with willpower so that is something that can help them if they are outclassed. From what I know and see the nature of daos and ancient magic is similar, since both have inneherently law and concept manip, so that only left the numbers of layers that Ji have in this key.
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Ning isn't even close to 20 layers in this key, so doubt this match isn't a stomp. Meh.
 
XDragnoir said:
Ning isn't even close to 20 layers in this key, so doubt this match isn't a stomp. Meh.
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Even Ning's soul has become a manifestation of the conceptual type 2 of the Grand Daos of the Sword. His soul is capable of providing very high resistance and has undergone evolution. keep in mind that grand daos itself has countless times layers rather than Baseline cm2

His soul became completely pure and transparent in this moment, more than it ever had been before. Ning suddenly felt as though time itself slowed down. Something that he had been struggingly this entire time to reach, and yet had never been able to…finally, he truly had reached it, and embarked on a new journey through his Grand Dao. This was…the Grand Dao of the Sword! A vast, awe-inspiring Grand Dao! In this moment, Ning felt as though he had transformed into a sword that was swimming through the entirety of the Grand Dao.

In this moment…Ning had completely reached the Grand Dao Domain level.

Generally speaking, Immortal cultivators who trained in a Dao all had the chance to reach the ‘Dao Domain’ level, but that was generally only true for an ordinary Dao. The Dao of the Sword, however, was one of the Grand Daos; to reach the Grand Dao Domain was far more difficult than even completely mastering an entire Dao-Path

Within his sea of consciousness.

Ning’s soul suddenly transformed into a sword, an incomparably dazzling sword. This was the sword-soul, which only a Sword Immortal who had truly reached the Grand Dao Domain level would possess. This was a fundamental change, an evolution of the soul
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I mean, with grand daos domain. Nagumo Will completely paralyzed, even his action Will get even his action will be canceled, and its based thought. The scene just like this

The protective sword-ki within the brooch tried to charge out, but it was pressed down upon by an invisible, formless strength, preventing it from emerging.

It was pushed back inside!

Ning willed it to activate again.

But yet again, it was pushed back inside!

“How can this be?” Ning now felt truly powerless.

Book 8 33 fiendgod
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Even if you want to resist, that's totally pointless

Am I going to die?” The Azure Skysnake was coiled around Northson’s arms. She was able to see the towering, vast, ancient Fiendgod from the corner of her eyes. The feeling that ancient Fiendgod gave her was that of the vast universe itself; she couldn’t even bring herself to want to try to resist.

Book 8 33 fiendgod
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For full feats you can check his profile
 
Countless layers mean unquantifiable above baseline because the word just mean too many and ins't used in the wiki to refer to something like infinite, which seem a bit what in this debate is tried to make it look, too many is something subjetive to begin with so we can't realible considered it above things with an actual count of numbers, like one can't say that is above the hax of other verse with 100 layers, 1000 layers, 10000 layers and so for example, that's nlf. A somewhat extreme example to get the point would be say that Ehit, who was said numerous times to have lived countless thousands of years, have lived more than Ji Ning, who at the end of his novel seem to have 1,080,000,000,000,000,000 years, as everyone understand this would be a absurd assumption but I believe it work to show that the word countless is subjetive and thus unreliable to put it above concrete numbers.

Another thing, while great daos are indeed more powerful than ordinary daos at the end of the day seem like master an ordinary dao make him have a small progress in a great dao, which despite be small still is a progress, also if the gap between them were really that absurd he wouldn't had just mastered sixteen ordinary daos after master more than half of the grand dao of the waterdrop.
 
Let's put that aside for now, because I forgot the feats gap between the upper and lower cultivators (I really remember that at certain steps the difference was greater than 100x, and the gap was changed to like the difference between heaven and earth). I'll try to find it later. and for chain scaling I think Cm 2 ji ning can reach thousands of times stronger than baseline (I will try to explain the chain scaling)

It's important to remember that in this match, it's not just Nagumo vs Primaltwin Body Ning. this includes his true body+primaltwin which has almost the same power and the same hax. so how will nagumo escape from the Grand Daos domain? and beat the 2 bodies of ji ning ?
 
Hajime in this key literally have a pocket world with thousands of demons (high demons which can use ancient magic and have their own hierarchy that give them more layers, mind you), several thousands of artifacts (as the most absurd low balling), thousands (specifically I think they were around three thousands) of dragon gods apparitions (abstract existences that can only truly die if their legend and conception is destroyed through several universes, with all of them having ancient magic level powers on top of random abilities depending of their specific legend and conception, like Yato no Kami for example who cause insta death to anyone that see him), robots and AI's (fo the moment specifically two AI's that come from a more technologically advanced world than Earth were humanity was able to colonize various planets and even manipulate space purely with sciencie, one of those two AI stood above all the combined calculation power of the machines from that humanity), seven divine spirits (beings that are nature itself which have complete control of the element they govern), a literal infinite amount of energy to back everything and everyone, and technically he can also summon in any moment if wanted any of his wives or allies like Kousuke but that probably classify as outside help so you can ignore it if wanted.

Numbers aren't a problem to Hajime, at all.
 
Fixxed said:
Let's put that aside for now, because I forgot the feats gap between the upper and lower cultivators (I really remember that at certain steps the difference was greater than 100x, and the gap was changed to like the difference between heaven and earth). I'll try to find it later. and for chain scaling I think Cm 2 ji ning can reach thousands of times stronger than baseline (I will try to explain the chain scaling)
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What exactly you're talking about here?
 
XDragnoir said:
What exactly you're talking about here?
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Do you remember what book it was in when Ji Ning explained the Gap Between Steps. and if I'm not mistaken, the primal daoism step and the steps below have gaps like heaven and earth (ahh i forgot which chapter is it).

I want use this chain scaling
 
Fixxed said:
Do you remember what book it was in when Ji Ning explained the Gap Between Steps. and if I'm not mistaken, the primal daoism step and the steps below have gaps like heaven and earth (ahh i forgot which chapter is it).

I want use this chain scaling
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I mean, i don't remember that one, but i think i still have some others (they are in older threads in any case).

Tho, why do you want that one anyway? That example (heaven and earth) really doesn't help much with the scaling chain.
 
XDragnoir said:
Tho, why do you want that one anyway? That example (heaven and earth) really doesn't help much with the scaling chain.
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yes I know that, but before the Gap part like The difference between earth and Earth. I remember there was an explanation for the Gap 10x stronger or how many times stronger, therefore I wanted to use chain scaling with the sentence

Example:"atleast 10x above baseline"

Sadly i can't found this feats in my note
 
Fixxed said:
yes I know that, but before the Gap part like The difference between earth and Earth. I remember there was an explanation for the Gap 10x stronger or how many times stronger, therefore I wanted to use chain scaling with the sentence

Example:"atleast 10x above baseline"

Sadly i can't found this feats in my note
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I mean, if you find something like that Ning will not be H6C/L6B anymore in his previous key, but this is his Void Level key so why would that matter?
 
XDragnoir said:
A 10x stronger statement doesn't add anything to most types of hax, 10x stronger soul hax wouldn't be 10 layers of soul hax or anything like for example.
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Umm, if you have that's feats can you send the chapter to me? I want explain that with my words. I need that. If you have i can make a new CRT about that too
 
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