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Yet Another Touhou CRT

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Anyways I'm sure everyone's sick of Touhou CRTs by now but I promise this won't have anything wildly controversial.

Sorry for the shitty organization this went through a lot of edits

Mind Manipulation Changes
I have some issues with how everyone who's resisted the effects of the true moon has resistance to mind manipulation, as this is clearly a case of madness manipulation. On top of that, most characters who've shrugged off the true moon were later affected by other forms of mind manipulation, such as Suika gathering everyone's minds during IaMP and Miyoi's memory manipulation clearly affecting Reimu and Marisa.

So I propose that everyone who currently has resistance to mind manipulation should get resistance to madness manipulation instead, except for Yukari, Koishi, and Reisen, as they have other justifications for their resistances.

Yes, I know madness manipulation is sort of considered a sub-ability of mind manipulation, but it doesn't seem right to assume characters who can resist one very specific use of that ability can resist everything that ability is capable of.


Everyone With Space or Time Manipulation
Every character who currently has either Spatial Manipulation or Time Manipulation listed in their profiles should instead have Space-Time Manipulation, as space and time are inseparable in Touhou, and you cannot manipulate one without affecting the other. This is the explanation given for why Sakuya has spatial manipulation, and there's no reason it shouldn't extend to every other character with similar abilities.
Q: In EoSD, who is the person Patchouli called "the person who likes to play around with time and space"?


A: That is of course referring to Sakuya.

Sakuya controls duration of time, not single moments of time.
In the former case of "duration of time", you can't separate it from space.

Because of that, manipulating time also means manipulating space, and vice-versa.
The following characters would be affected by this change:
Reimu
Alice
Youmu
Yuyuko
Tewi
Komachi
Doremy
Futo
Seiga

All Youkai
Every youkai should have Resistance to Disease Manipulation since according to Eirin in BAiJR, they seemingly do not get sick.
unknown.png

Should also get Longevity, since in PMiSS Akyuu states that youkai have longer lifespans than humans, and in CoLA Rinnosuke says that he doesn't age.

Reimu
Has Portal Creation as shown here.

Perception Manipulation from
one of her spell cards making people see numerous copies of herself.

BFR from her
last word in ULiL, which traps an opponent inside a gap. This should be functionally equivalent to Yukari's BFR, as they both use the same method.

Finally, a little note about durability scaling.
Here we see Reimu get smacked around by Oni Kasen, who shortly after tells Reimu that she'll eat her alive (and has the corpses of everyone else she's killed to prove she's serious), so she was definitely hitting with the intent to kill. We should probably add this to Reimu's profile as a durability justification since this is something most Touhou profiles lack (Not like it'll be relevant once I finish the UES CRT).

Yukari
Should have unconventional resistance to Energy Absorption and Power Nullification, as she was capable of using energy stored in her gaps to temporarily negate the aftereffects of being possessed, which drains youkai of their magical energy, causing them to fall into a coma and lose their abilities.

unknown.png

I think this is enough to prove that it's power null/energy absorption so here's the actual scan of Yukari's thing.
unknown.png
unknown.png

Also has Paralysis Inducement from one of her spell cards in Scarlet Weather Rhapsody.
unknown.png

Lastly I have a question regarding her mind manipulation; why don't we consider it combat applicable? If there are scans proving it I'd like to see them, otherwise the "likely not combat applicable" part should be removed.

Yuyuko
Has Time Manipulation from stopping the night during Imperishable Night. While she claims Kaguya was responsible, neither Kaguya nor Youmu believe her. Alice has time manipulation for the exact same reason so I don't know why this wouldn't apply to Yuyuko.
—so, does that mean you're the one
who's stopping the night?

Huh?
Lady Yuyuko, isn't that...?

I could never do something so cruel.
Trust me on that one.



I said this just a minute ago, but she has to
be the one who's stopping the night. Surely.

No, um, I think that's...

Wrong. I said that, didn't I?
Well, whatever.
You're so eager to fight with me, so shall we begin?

Youmu
Should get Time Manipulation due to this. Reimu also states that time was slowed down for her as well, which means this clearly isn't enhanced senses or a speed amp.
I thought she would only swing her swords around, but she had actually danmaku to my surprise. I wonder if there was a point to her slowing down time other than giving me a break.
Should also get Weather Manipulation from being able to steal spring, which was noticeably affecting Gensokyo's climate.

Suika
Should get Power Nullification due to this spell card (and a stronger version of it shown here) dispersing a character's spirit power. To elaborate further, spirit power is what allows a character to use spell cards and fly in the grounded fighters, so losing access to spirit power (and by extension spell cards/flight) is power null.
unknown.png

Chi Manipulation from one of her SWR skill cards.

Flandre
Should get Extrasensory Perception, as she was able to detect that Meiling was possessed because she could "feel a powerful malice inside the mansion".
unknown.png


Kasen
Light Manipulation
via creating orbs of light with her right hand in WaHH.


Soul Manipulation and BFR as she was able to send Reimu's soul directly to Avici.



Chen & Ran
For Chen, replace below average intelligence with at least gifted, as she was capable of analyzing the movements of every phantom in the Netherworld in order to find a few that were moving out of order. This should also both give them Information Analysis.

Hourai Immortals
Should get resistance to Disease Manipulation from this.
unknown.png


Byakuren, Miko, and Eirin
All three of them should get Memory Manipulation from chapter 35 of WaHH, where it's either stated or heavily implied they have the ability to erase memories with magic (or drugs in Eirin's case).



Sakuya
Should have Resistance to Time Stop, as in PoFV, when time is stopped by another Sakuya, she's still able to move freely. This is not game mechanics, as every other character in the game is frozen, so it was an intentional decision to give Sakuya the ability to move in someone else's stopped time (even if that 'someone else' is another Sakuya).
unknown.png




As a final note, can we at least try to make new pages for the rest of the verse? The majority of the WBaWC cast is missing despite the game being out for well over 2 years now (and Kutaka's page scales her to Urumi despite Urumi not having a page), nobody from UM even has a page at all, and Miyoi is the only print work character to not have a page. I'd be willing to help with the pages if that means anything, though I don't really have much experience creating wiki pages.
 
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Only issue I have is the resistance to time stop for sakuya due to the description being an editor's comment. Usually the wiki well tell you on the side if it's a translation, but editor's comments are usually made from wiki people.
 
I found a very old and low quality Sakuya vs Sakuya PoFV match and it lines up with the editor's comments.


You can clearly see the Sakuya on the left continue to move even after the Sakuya on the right uses her time stop.
 
I found a very old and low quality Sakuya vs Sakuya PoFV match and it lines up with the editor's comments.


You can clearly see the Sakuya on the left continue to move even after the Sakuya on the right uses her time stop.

It's fine. I just wouldn't use an editor's comment for justification. Usually if it's time stop related things in touhou people are usually stopped anyways take like reimu and marisa for example.
 
Yeah, my point here is that Sakuya isn't stopped even when she logically should be. I can find other PoFV footage of other characters being frozen in time if that helps.

Anyways, going back over the CRT, Reimu's light manip and Yukari's paralysis inducement also use editors comments. I'm fine with removing light manip for Reimu, but Yukari's spell card seems to still paralyze you for a bit so it should still be usable.
 
Yeah, my point here is that Sakuya isn't stopped even when she logically should be. I can find other PoFV footage of other characters being frozen in time if that helps.

Anyways, going back over the CRT, Reimu's light manip and Yukari's paralysis inducement also use editors comments. I'm fine with removing light manip for Reimu, but Yukari's spell card seems to still paralyze you for a bit so it should still be usable.
You don't have to find the PoFV fototage I've played it. The time stop resistance is fine I just spotted the editors comment and thought that I should point it out.
 
I also didn't see the light manipulation part for reimu being an editor's comment so I didn't point that out. I just woke up from a nap lol
 
That makes 4 then. I guess now we just need staff permission to apply the changes.

Unrelated, but we should probably start work on giving every page the necessary references they need. I don't know if I need staff permission to start doing this or what, it'd just be nice to have and make the verse a little harder to downgrade.

The big issue there is that a few of abilities and feats need multiple scans to contextualize, so I can't just link to one and call it a day.
 
If I have a penny for every Touhou CRT that's active, I would have 5 pennies, which aren't a lot but it's weird that it happened 5 times.
 
Oh right, I forgot we had that.

I'll work on it bit by bit when I get the chance.

Thank god I don't have to redo the profiles from scratch though lmao
 
Lastly I have a question regarding her mind manipulation; why don't we consider it combat applicable? If there are scans proving it I'd like to see them, otherwise the "likely not combat applicable" part should be removed.
Because she mindhax her Shikigami which she has full control over, we can't assume she can mindhax other than her Shikigami
K.
Should have Resistance to Time Stop, as in PoFV, when time is stopped by another Sakuya, she's still able to move freely. This is not game mechanics, as every other character in the game is frozen, so it was an intentional decision to give Sakuya the ability to move in someone else's stopped time (even if that 'someone else' is another Sakuya).
Sakuya should also be able to negate resistance to time stop.
 
Eh, just because Yukari has only been shown to use it on her shikigami doesn't mean it only works on shikigami. Even if it did, that wouldn't really justify the 'likely not combat applicable part', since that seems to apply more to stuff that requires prep time/certain conditions.

Sakuya's time stop is likely just way stronger than the other time stops in the series. I believe that's how we treat hax resistances on this wiki anyways. If a character is unaffected by hax in one case and then affected by the same hax later on, it's just assumed that the latter instance of hax is stronger than the former.

I mean I agree with CM1 base Reimu, but how exactly would we phrase that?
 
Eh, just because Yukari has only been shown to use it on her shikigami doesn't mean it only works on shikigami. Even if it did, that wouldn't really justify the 'likely not combat applicable part', since that seems to apply more to stuff that requires prep time/certain conditions.
That's not a good assumption, it's not combat applicable because she can only use it to her Shikigami.
I mean I agree with CM1 base Reimu, but how exactly would we phrase that?
Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1; Is able to manipulate boundaries to open a space that leads to Yukari's gap)
Sakuya's time stop is likely just way stronger than the other time stops in the series. I believe that's how we treat hax resistances on this wiki anyways. If a character is unaffected by hax in one case and then affected by the same hax later on, it's just assumed that the latter instance of hax is stronger than the former.
If Sakuya is resistant to time stop, and the other Sakuya stops the main Sakuya, then it's a resistance negation.
 
Except we don't know that. Yukari using an ability a single time doesn't mean it's limited to the person she used it on. For example, we can't just assume her light manipulation is limited to ******* with fairies because the only time she used it was against Sunny Milk.

That works well enough I guess.

Neither Sakuya can stop the other; they're both immune to each other's time stops. No resistances are being negated here.
 
Actually, I just realized Sakuya's resistance is kinda OP, considering her time stop works on characters who already resist time stop. So Sakuya's time stop resist >>>>>> everyone else's.
 
Except we don't know that. Yukari using an ability a single time doesn't mean it's limited to the person she used it on. For example, we can't just assume her light manipulation is limited to ******* with fairies because the only time she used it was against Sunny Milk.
We assume it's not combat applicable because Yukari used it against someone she already have full control with (Ran).
Neither Sakuya can stop the other; they're both immune to each other's time stops. No resistances are being negated here.
K.
 
...She only has full control over Ran because she used her mind replacement on her. That's how mind control works. You're assuming that Ran became Yukari's shikigami and THEN had her mind replaced, when as far as I'm aware the order should be reversed.
 
...She only has full control over Ran because she used her mind replacement on her. That's how mind control works. You're assuming that Ran became Yukari's shikigami and THEN had her mind replaced, when as far as I'm aware the order should be reversed.
Well can you send scan? I don't remember the moment it happened.
 
Well, found the scan from SCoOW. Based on what's being said here though, I think it's implied Yukari can implant the 'mind' of a shikigami into a separate physical body, which she then has full control over. Nothing here would really imply prep time or any kind of limited use, though like with most of Yukari's abilities the specifics are pretty hard to come by.
unknown.png
 
Thought over a bit and I think rewording the mind manip justification to something like "Can implant the mind of a shikigami into a physical body, overwriting the original personality and making them completely subservient to her" would work.
 
glad to see Touhou profiles finally getting updated.
a bit excessively with the multiple open CRT's, but very good for something so outdated.
Also @OnsokunoSonic I suggest reading Stephen Hawking's "A Brief History on time" it uses quite a bit of the concepts introduced cosmologically in touhou.
 
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