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Warhammer 40k General Discussion Thread - I

EliminatorVenom

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Only in death does duty end.

This is a thread to discuss the Warhammer 40.000 series. Talking about it, discussing potential feats and CRTs, and much more. Right now, I already have some ambitious plans, but I doubt the CRTs I'm thinking of would be accepted... In any case, there are plenty of things worth discussing.

The Emperor protects.
 
dangit, you beat me to it
Don't have much to say at the moment, I began reading the lore again, and I've also noticed that the profiles of some astartes and primarchs still don't have space marine physiology on their page, which is a bummer.
 
That should be added ASAP, there is no dispute to that.

I've been compiling feats from several books for quite a long time now, one year or two. Of course, I've stopped too a long while ago, and maybe I'll return soon, I've been feeling a 40k itch that simply does not go away...

So far, all the books I've covered are:
  • Horus Heresy I: Horus Rising
  • Horus Heresy II: False Gods
  • Horus Heresy III: Galaxy in Flames
  • Horus Heresy IV: Flight of the Eisenstein
  • Horus Heresy V: Fulgrim
  • Horus Heresy VI: Descent of Angels
  • Horus Heresy VII: Legion
  • Horus Heresy VIII: Battle for the Abyss
  • Horus Heresy IX: Mechanicum
  • Horus Heresy X: Tales of Heresy (Not finished yet)
  • Horus Heresy XLI: Master of Mankind
  • Ultramarines I: Nightbringer
  • Ultramarines II: Warriors of Ultramar
  • Ultramarines III: Dead Sky, Black SUN
  • Eisenhorn I: Xenos
  • Eisenhorn II: Malleus
  • Eisenhorn III: Hereticus
  • Ravenor I (Not finished yet)
  • Carcharodons I: Red Tithe (plus short stories)
  • Carcharodons II: Outer Dark
  • Blood Angels I: Deus Encarmine
  • Blood Angels II: Deus Sanguinius
  • Brothers of the Snake
  • Straken (Not finished)
  • Macharian Crusade I: Angel of Fire
  • Macharian Crusade II: Fist of Demetrius
  • Macharian Crusade III: Fall of Macharius
  • Man of Iron (Short story)
Plus the following rulebooks.
  • WH40K 8° Edition Core Rulebok
  • WH40K 8° Edition Daemons Rulebook
  • WH40K 8° Edition Space Marines Rulebook
  • WH40K 7° Edition Adeptus Custodes Rulebook
  • WH40K 8° Edition Adeptus Custodes Rulebook
  • WH40K 3° Edition Catachans Rulebook
  • WH40K 3° Edition Assassins Rulebook
  • WH40K 5° Edition Dark Eldar
  • WH40K 5° Edition Necrons
  • Dark Heresy 1° Edition Core Rulebook
  • Imperial Armour 9°: The Badab War, Part 1
  • Imperial Armour 10°: The Badab War, Part 2
  • Index Imperium I
Also these games.
  • Warhammer 40.000: Space Marine
  • Warhammer 40.000: Mechanicum
It still is very, very little compared to the total that the series has to offer, but based on that and, as a second-hand source, what I've read about 40k, there is plenty to do about the profiles here.

In fact, I wanted to discuss a very controversial thing I wanted to state about 40k, but I'm afraid that I won't be able to debate it out of pressure. Even some less controversial stuff might find some surprising resistance. There are some powers that the Emperor is missing or that could be better detailed, Macharius should face a severe downgrade, the overall speed of the average Space Marine might be a bit lower than suggested (Although the veterans still have the same upper limit) plus some other things.
 
I admire your dedication to both upgrade and downgrade such a big verse. I don't think any of the other WH40k fans would mind you sharing your thoughts on the speed stuff and what-not, not to mention that pretty much every single 40k fan on here has confessed that the profiles are very outdated. Besides some profiles not having space marine physiology on their page, another concerning thing about the profiles is that Big E himself doesn't even have resistance to fate manipulation on his profile.

Have you decided which CRTs are you gonna make first? Considering how many books you've read and how many feats you've gathered, it wouldn't be a good idea to just shove them all inside one ridiculously big blog.
 
I'm really flattered! Rather than dedication to upgrade and downgrade, I think that I like to study fiction in general, and since I like 40k very much, the desire to study it is just as large. To be honest, while I understand the appeal of great showings of power and I do like seeing them, I overall couldn't care less how a franchise is rated, me liking it or not. I just like to register stuff.

Yup, it'd be really difficult to post everything in a very big blog. Very impractical, even. I'm uploading the feats mostly in another wiki of mine, over the course of several blog posts dedicated to each series within 40k (One for the daemon codexes, one for the Blood Angels saga, etc.), and from there, I can more easily index the feats.

So, for now, my plan would be to simply solve the less controversial stuff first. The Adeptus Astartes page needs a big upgrade to the abilities, there are several ones that are missing, even some that the very profile acknowledges existing in the special techniques section. I'd prefer to separate the weapons in a different abilities key to the rest of the profile, but that's my personal preference. The Primarchs and the Emperor also need additions or at least explanations for several of their abilities.

After that, I plan to carefully structure a very thoroughly explained blog. I dislike having to make a big blog, not only due to the hassles of actually writing something very big and detailed, which I tend to lose myself, but I also dislike making simply a big blog and bog down people with information. In any case, my idea would be to do something similar to a massive 40k downgrade, although that isn't the right word, and really, it is more of a suggestion about how to analyse the entire universe that I believe is better than the system used here.

I've noticed a certain theme in 40k that, while not explicitly or even directly implied to be the case, has a lot of circumstantial and plot-wise evidence to that. The idea is the difference between material and immaterial, or supernatural, power. A being can be, say, Mountain level against material attacks, and Solar System level against immaterial attacks, and vice-versa, although the opposite is quite rare. As material, I refer the what the Matterium encompasses; pure technology, physique, biology and the occasional power that has a biological factor to it, like the sound attacks of the alien race fought by the Emperor's Children in Fulgrim. As immaterial, I refer to everything supernatural, mostly the Warp, but the rare occasional external supernatural force (Such as the Tyranid Hive Mind, which operates within the Warp but existed even outside the Milky Way and follows some different rules). While often there aren't clear borders between the two, like eldar technology that borrows from both and Warp mutations that boost one's pure physique even without further empowering, in general, it is entirely possible to have great resistance and AP in one, but being very low in the other.

There are several anedoctal evidences to what I'm saying that I'd need to properly structure, but it also explains so many of the contradictions. Primarchs are usually treated to be something around Mountain level (Multi-Continental if you interpret the macro-cannons feats in the way that is currently applied), with Horus being surprised that a Chaos-empowered Lorgar survived direct hits from a plasma cannon of a Titan (And Lorgar was very damaged by it), the Forces of Chaos often being able to cause cosmic levels of warping and destruction, yet valuing a lot artifacts and vehicles capable of causing planetary and stellar destruction.

I could go on and on providing several examples, seeming contradictions, but as a point, just notice on how a great majority of cosmic feats are performed because of the Warp. Notice how it is consistent that a psyker can destroy a whole Titan with a snap, but at the same time, people that can tank much more serious, purely destructive Warp attacks from the same person often die to much simpler things than said Titan (Using again the Primarchs as an example, Magnus atomized a Titan with a gesture, and he used much more energy, in a much more directed and destructive way, to Leman, who tanked it with no problems. Yet, Lorgar, who has also fought with Leman, wounding him and tanking his attacks, still was very grievously wounded by a few shots from a Titan). Also, notice that when a cosmic feat is performed purely out of technology, such as is with the necrons, people treat such feats as utterly terrifying.

If my CRT passes, most beings in 40k will need to have something like "X level, Y level against the supernatural". It isn't easy, and again, there are many times that such borders aren't clear-cut, and many others that we need to consider that such attacks are almost impossible to scale (Such as indirect harm caused by Warp; someone hurling telekinectically a heavy weight, cracking the planet under you, all of that. I'm of the opinion that those scale partially to both physical and supernatural damage, but how much, impossible to determine), but the thing is that, as hard as scaling may prove to be that way, it is much safer than just dismissing consistent showings as "anti-feats" or "feats" arbitrarily. Particularly, Macharius makes absolutely no sense in the Small Planet level.

Sorry for the roundabout explanation, I'm not really good at explaining stuff in english.
 
You don't need to apologize for that sorta stuff, I actually like how you have a lot of energy and creativity to write all of that. By the way, did you tell any of the other supporters about this thread? It's a bit awkward to have only two people talking in these sort of threads.
 
About the Adeptus Astartes profile, while most that I'm noting here is already encompassed by the Space Marine Physiology, there are some things to add, or to boost already existing resistances. I'll add a few more soon.

Enhanced Senses (And Resistance to it too!)
Weapon Mastery, Martial Arts & Stealth Mastery
Resistance to Heat
Resistance to Radiation
Resistance to Irritants (Maybe there's another name to it?)
Resistance to Poison and Diseases
  • I could cite feats but there are too many of them, but basically, poisons that can kill even strong humans instantly cause a light headache at most for Space Marines.
  • A Space Marine survives the poison of a dark eldar archon. Again, if you know Dark Eldar lore, you know this is actually insane. (Fist of Demetrius)
Aura
Tolerance to Wounds, Tiredness and Pain
Breathing (idk how to call this)
Still need to add plenty of stuff, such as Body Control, but oh well.
 
Wait, astartes don't have pain tolerance listed on their page? Not even type 2 immortality? I'm pretty sure it has been shown time and time again that a lot of them can casually continue fighting without an arm without even noticing that it's missing.

As for some of the other stuff...
Resistance to Irritants (Maybe there's another name to it?)
Dunno what to call this one, maybe limited resistance to senses manipulation or something? Not sure what to make of this one.
Breathing (idk how to call this)
Limited type 1 self-sustenance seems fine.
A Space Marine can go on for weeks without food or rest, and by using 20-minutes naps, can prolong that time significantly
Limited type 2 self-sustenance, the resting stuff is just some good stamina feats.
their armor's capabilites and their own super senses to sneak by even radars
Wouldn't this be straight up passive technology manipulation?
 
Wait, astartes don't have pain tolerance listed on their page? Not even type 2 immortality? I'm pretty sure it has been shown time and time again that a lot of them can casually continue fighting without an arm without even noticing that it's missing.
Many things that I commented on are listed on the Space Marine Physiology page already, what I'm doing is simply explaining/increasing the level of many of their abilities, since some of the information in the physiology page makes it seem like they don't have much going on. The Resistance to Heat, for example, only explains the bodily mechanics of the Space Marine organ that makes them sweat extra-profusely to better diminish heat, which by itself, isn't near as good a feat as resisting heat that can incinerate Tyranids. I'll make a Space Marine and Imperial Technology sandbox soon, translating the stuff that I already have in hands, with the rule of adding only Space Marine stuff that is done by either nameless people, or named characters that are, in-story, treated as average/not that much better than average, and even then, I'll mark said feats.

Dunno what to call this one, maybe limited resistance to senses manipulation or something? Not sure what to make of this one.
Maybe? It's just that their eyes are extra-protected against chemicals. Usually it shouldn't be a factor since their helmets already blocks that, but it still should be noted as it isn't unusual for their helmets to get damaged, and many SMs fight helmetless.

Wouldn't this be straight up passive technology manipulation?
Perhaps? Their armor is surprisingly versatile. I'm prioritizing feats done by the SM or with minimal contribution of the Power Armor, but there are several times that their armor by themselves do some crazy stuff.

Also, as a side note, Terminator Armour-grade and beyond armored Marines should have resistance to scanning. Adamantium blocks sensors and auspexes, with auspexes being basically super-radars. That may not be scale as it may depend on the thickness of the adamantium plating and we don't know how thick the adamantium plates of Terminator Armour are, but it's certainly a thing.

Also, I'm unsure who is and who isn't active in the wiki now... The verse page lists a lot of people that aren't active anymore.
 
Started the sandbox. Once I translate all of it, I'll start putting feats from other books. I discovered that I only put feats of the 40K Space Marines 8° Edition, Horus Rising, Brothers of the Snake, Carcharodons, Ultramarines, Macharian Crusade and Blood Angels series.
 
The sandbox is almost done. I just need to add the skills, misc and psyker abilities, and then I'll be starting the Imperial Technology sandbox.
 
I'm proud to declare that the Space Marines sandbox is complete! Of course, there are still a lot of books for me to upload the scans and add to the sandbox, of the thirty I read that sandbox has only the feats of about ten to fifteen of them, but hey, progress. I'd like for you guys to check it out and see what you think, if possible!

Now I'll do the Imperial Technology Sandbox.
 
Aaaand done. Again, there's still plenty to add from other books, but the original snadbox is covered.
 
I'll soon add the feats of the first Eisenhorn trilogy, and some interesting bits.

Even the most basic, non-primitive 40k armour should be 9-B, and almost all weapons are 9-B to 9-A. In particular, sniper rifles can crack a Space Marine's helmet with a shot, although not pierce it or outright break it. Basic lasguns should be at least 9-A if set on the maximum energy output levels, as they can clearly pierce a Space Marine and still melt stone. Most significant characters should have Heat Resistance in the thousands of degrees, as a lot of them, Marines in particular, are not affected at all by temperatures that makes futuristic metals, more resistant than steel, become white-hot.

I think I missed the feat or I'm mistaking the series that a Titan's cannon managed to vaporize a solid metal gate more than 100m tall, more than 50m wide and several meters thick, all in one shot.

Also, I'll try to make a Eisenhorn personal respect thread, and perhaps start translating my Emps' personal respect thread. Sadly, since I covered only 10 books of the Heresy and all the others barely had any feats of his, it wouldn't help the page as it is nowadays.
 
Since my university's term has come to an end, I will have some more time to dedicate to this and some other threads of mine. Since I juggle around a few interests at a time, I take some time to update stuff. My apologies.

In any case, I've started translating my EoM sandbox. Since it's rather small, it should be translated soon.
 
Whoops, forgot to respond to the stuff written here. I'm about to head off to bed so I might end up making this short.
This seems to be cosmic awareness instead of acausality judging by how you wrote this feat.
Sounds like some sort of busted precognition, which he already has listed on his profile.
I actually don't know what to make of this one. I'll re-read the feat at a later time.
 
I put (?)'s because the whole scene was... Weird. I honestly see them more as some form of astral projection through the Emperor's psyche, but the scenes do muddle things up a bit.

Contextualizing here, we see those scenes from Ra Endimyon's standpoint, who sees the Emperor's past at several points in time. Through the entire ordeal, the Emperor comments on several things that are happening, but also talking with Ra about what is happening. At first glance, it seems pretty obvious to be only astral projection, with Ra seeing the things that were happening.

The problem is, the Emperor that interacts with Ra is the same that is doing all the stuff. For example, when Ra goes to the past and sees the Emperor as a kid, kid!Emperor does the psychometry stuff, thinks about how he will honor the spirit of his deceased father, stops the heart of his own uncle, and then starts chatting with Ra. As the scene is concluding, the Emperor starts to lose focus on Ra, rambling again about what he'd do to honour his father.

It is... Hard to determine if this is just an astral projection deep within the Emperor's psyche, so deep that he needs to re-enact the scenes that are presented there and cannot diverge much from that, or if he actually transported him to the past, or some other thing entirely. I feel like it is the first option, but the whole scene is vague.
 
I really need to become more dilligent. I looked at the 40k profiles and felt that I was falling behind way too much. I mean, the stuff there is end-of-heresy and up-to-date with the latest stuff. Even if I uploaded and translated everything I have until now, it is still very little and unlikely to contribute.

At the same time, there's some stuff I really need to tackle... I wish I had a flash of inspiration to know how to deal with this stuff.
 
Take your time. It's a big verse, so you're gonna need plenty of dedication.
i really need to go back to reading the lore
 
Me too, bruva.

I really wish I could tackle the problem of the Solar System/Large Planet ratings head-on, but until I reach the end of the Horus Heresy, it is unlikely I'll be able to act on it. There may be something that I'm missing, but I'm pretty sure from what I've read, uploaded and studied about the lore that characters are differently tiered against material stuff and against Warp stuff, with plenty of give to both sides, but until the end of the Heresy, I'm not in position to give my opinion.
 
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