Joker vs Bowser

[Sonicflare9]

Ren Amamiya

Ren Amamiya was an ordinary high-school student. That is, until one evening, when he was unfairly convicted of assault while trying to stop a drunkard from taking advantage of a woman. Sent off to live with a family friend while attending Shujin Academy, he stumbles across the Metaverse after...

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Bowser

Bowser, sometimes known as King Koopa (Japanese: 大魔王クッパ, Daimaō Kuppa or "Great Demon King Koopa"), is the main antagonist of the Mario series and the King of the Koopas. He has repeatedly kidnapped or attempted to kidnap Princess Peach and take over the Mushroom Kingdom. He has also attempted...

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speed equalized
whooooooooooooooooooooooo would win

true end game joker vs dreamy bowser

 

[Darkvie123]

Joker cause of his lifting strength beeing Imessurable

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Joker cause of his lifting strength beeing Imessurable

I'm sorry what. How is this an argument here. Bowser one shots.

 

[King_Clab]

Voting Bowser via soul manip and AP.

 

[Shmooply]

I'm sorry what. How is this an argument here. Bowser one shots.

Ren has plenty of items and personas that make him either deflect or straight up be unaffected by physical attacks.

soul manip

Resists it.

 

[TheGatememer]

It doesn't look like they resist sleep hax though

 

[Shmooply]

It doesn't look like they resist sleep hax though

Even his early game key states that he has items that makes him invulnerable to sleep hax:

With Skill Accessories: Through equipping certain items, Ren can possess any of the following: Enhanced Regeneration, Statistics Amplification, Attack Reflection, Forcefield Creation, Attack Absorption, Limited Precognition, Healing, Purification, Fire Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation, Air Manipulation, Radiation Manipulation, Explosion Manipulation, Light Manipulation, Holy Manipulation, Darkness Manipulation and Curse Manipulation. Invulnerability to Memory Manipulation and Sleep Manipulation.

 

[TheGatememer]

Oh i didn't see that my bad.

 

[TheGatememer]

Can Ren do anything against sealing or transmutation?

 

[Shmooply]

His early game key states that he resists cognition manipulation, and transmutation is listed as one of the abilities there. Sealing and BFR are also listed as one of the stronger abilities, and, since this is True End Game Joker, where he has greatly improved resistance to cognition manipulation, he'll likely be unaffected by Bowser's sealing.

Speaking of- what's the range of the sealing? And is it in character for Dreamy Bowser to use it?

 

[TheGatememer]

Not sure about Dreamy Bowser, but Base Bowser has started out with it once. Though, it looks like anyone with at least 70x 3-C AP can open them, so it wouldn't work.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I don't think it's in-character for Bowser to start with Sealing.

 

[TheGatememer]

He has started out with it before in 64. Though once again, it shouldn't work on Ren.

 

[King_Clab]

Speaking of- what's the range of the sealing? And is it in character for Dreamy Bowser to use it?

He was going to erase mario and luigi with the dream stone (The thing that turned him into dreamy bowser) before it was shattered, Then bowser swallowed the pieces to turn into dreamy bowser,..but He did not try to erase mario and luigi as dreamy bowser so I guess he does not use it in character.

 

[TheGatememer]

Ren seems to be able to regen from EE so it wouldn't work either way.

 

[Jinsye]

AP

Repel/Null Phys, High-Godly, and just dodging all work wonders here.

Sealing

Joker resists. This is apart of Cognition Manip.

Sleephax

Joker resists, this is an ailment that can be negged.

Soulhax

Joker resists. This is apart of Cognition Manip.

Transmutation

Joker resists. This is apart of Cognition Manip.

Meanwhile Bowser has nothing against Conceptual type 2, or Binds, or space-cutting, or really much in general.

 

[TheGatememer]

Does Bowser even have a win-con?

 

[Shmooply]

Unless some Mario supporters can prove that Bowser has some sort of wincon here, Joker straight up annihilates Bowser.

 

[TheGatememer]

Joker is on the highest tier of Cognition Manipulation/Resistance to Cognition Manipulation I assume? (aka the major applications part)

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

Seemingly yes

 

[Shmooply]

Yes, this is True End-Game Joker, whose resistance to Cognition Manipulation is ridiculously good.

 

[Lou_change]

I mean how good are the resistances.

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

2-C at minimum

 

[Lou_change]

Is this from actual feats, higher dimensional entities or scaling to ap?

 

[TheGatememer]

I don't think even Pure Hearts Bowser has any win-cons, so this is a stomp.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Joker FRA

 

[Shift_Ctrl_Alt_Delete]

Doesn't Bowser have a massive AP advantage, or am I wrong?

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

Joker is 2-B while Bowser is 2-B I think

 

[Thelastmlg]

There are levels of 2-B, plus scaling chains.

Wait why is joker 2-B for significantly damaging yaldaboth, a low 2-C, is the latter outdated?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Repel/Null Phys, High-Godly, and just dodging all work wonders here..

This counters his AP advantage

 

[TheGatememer]

Doesn't Joker also have fate hax?

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

Joker stomps fra

 

[00potato]

Doesn't Joker also have fate hax?

It isn’t something that will win him fights, he can just change things that were fated to happen but it hasn’t been shown as a weapon in its own right.

 

[TheGatememer]

So its not combat applicable?

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

Hmm...

 

[Everything12]

So it's not combat applicable?

Its combat applicable in that it would prevent other Characters' Fate Manipulation from working on him.

 

[Thelastmlg]

So is kinda like nullifying time slowing by accelerating time, but passively?

 

[Everything12]

Something like that.

 

[Shift_Ctrl_Alt_Delete]

There are levels of 2-B, plus scaling chains.

Wait why is joker 2-B for significantly damaging yaldaboth, a low 2-C, is the latter outdated?

Yaldabaoth's page is outdated.

 

[NotAMarioFan(lol)]

I think shulk would be a better matchup