The Chronosapien Time Bomb downgrade

[Gohanblanco217]

There are many issues with the Bomb scaling, so first the 2-B justification is wrong :

"Attack Potency: Multiverse level (Can wipe out all known timelines in the multiverse, consisting of hundreds of timelines that branch off "ad infinitum" according to Professor Paradox) "

The main issue with this is that the Chronosapien Time Bomb doesn't really erase timelines but it erase people across theire timeline as the Chronosapien time Bomp was specifically made to erase every version of Ben across their timelines as stated by vilgax or Paradox , which is even backed up by the visual feats alone and erasing a timeline ≠ erasing someone across a timeline, there is a massive difference between the two of them as the former would scale to the AP and range while the latter only scale to your range but not your AP.

• It's simple, the 2-B AP should, be downgraded to unknown since as i said erasing things across timelines doesn't scale to AP but it rather scale to "Range"

Agree :

Disagree :Executor_N0Maverick_Zero_Xprofessorkukui4life, zamasu_chan, milly_rocking_bandit, darkdragonmedeus,

 

[Duedate8898]

While it think it weird to scale Alien X to the bomb, I thought it pretty explicit that the timebomb erases the timelines of the bens as well as them when it explodes.

 

[Eficiente]

If this is true then you are correct, can you compile all the quotes saying what this thing does?

 

[Executor_N0]

Just... no ?

Eon: You're going to destroy this Ben 10 and his timeline? - Nice.

Vilgax: On the contrary The detonation won't even touch this Ben Tennyson or his timeline. It's designed to wipe other timelines from existence.

Eon: Which one?

Vilgax: All of them. [ Laughs evilly ] Only this timeline will be left intact, while all others will cease to exist, so every Ben Tennyson not from this timeline will be destroyed.

This video don't have all the dialogue, but it's clear that it's not just destroying the Bens. The bomb destroys timelines as said by both Eon and Vilgax. And later Paradox said that Vilgax destroyed all of time and space, so the bomb really destroys timelines, not only people.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Gonna have to disagree with the downgrade

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Disagreeing with the downgrade FRA

I still maintain my previous opinions before on the scaling being weird though. The Bomb doesn’t use AP to do its 2-B feat, we accept it as Existence Erasure last I checked. It shouldn’t even really scale to Alien X’s stats besides his own existence erasure.

This is basically scaling AP above a powerful hax feat.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

In the episode “And then there was Ben” Paradox and No watch Ben are able to go back in time to where Ben got the Omnitrix and to make sure he gets the Omnitrix. There’s a problem with this though. It can’t be no watch Ben’s timeline because No watch Ben would have an Omnitrix.

I disagree with the OP this is an issue that’s been bothering me that I want to bring up.

 

[FRIMI]

all instances of time travel create a new timeline. This is pretty well established from all the way back in OS. The timeline created by no watch ben's timeline is implied to be the split that would eventually split into every other timeline where ben got the omnitrix. This technically isn't definitively canon to my knowledge, but that's pretty much how I view the events

 

[Eficiente]

Can somebody add the wording used in the video as the new evidence for the bomb's AP while linking it? With that done that would be all for this thread.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Can somebody add the wording used in the video as the new evidence for the bomb's AP while linking it? With that done that would be all for this thread.

Not necessarily. There is still the scaling issue that me and someone else above said was
fishy.

Unless that should be done in a different thread.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm in agreement with Kukui and Executer

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Basically to recap my thoughts here:

The bomb is most definitely 2-B and shouldn’t be downgraded.

However

The bombs 2-B feat is done with existence erasure, not AP. And thus, it would make scaling anyone else to its tier fishy as your scaling strength in the sense of energy levels to something that is a hax.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Disagree with the downgrade, the literal justification disagrees with OP.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

This video don't have all the dialogue, but it's clear that it's not just destroying the Bens. The bomb destroys timelines as said by both Eon and Vilgax. And later Paradox said that Vilgax destroyed all of time and space, so the bomb

I believe I watched a similar video but the vilgax dialogue "On the contrary The detonation won't even touch this Ben Tennyson or his timeline. It's designed to wipe other timelines from existence." wasn't mentioned, my bad then, I should've probably have watched the video more carefully, however we can probably still discuss the Alien x scaling issue to the Bomb or idk

 

[Firestorm808]

We didn't scale Alien X to the CTB.

 

[Electro7101]

We have supporting feats of chronosapien technology damaging the timestream:

Spoiler

I disagree with the downgrade.

 

[Greenshifter]

Disagreeing with the downgrade FRA

I still maintain my previous opinions before on the scaling being weird though. The Bomb doesn’t use AP to do its 2-B feat, we accept it as Existence Erasure last I checked. It shouldn’t even really scale to Alien X’s stats besides his own existence erasure.

This is basically scaling AP above a powerful hax feat.

Fair, 2-B EE for the CTB kinda got forgotten about so I’m fine with applying it now, Alien X scales above the Chrono Navigator anyways (I don’t even think CTB is mentioned on his page) until we inevitably have to reopen that discussion but that’ll be in a few months.

Edit: For the people that aren’t aware, the argument was that Ben Prime phases through No watch Ben when he gets destroyed rather than just getting obliterated. Implying EE, this would also give the Omnitrix 2-B EE resistance since it survived the CTB and I don’t think it grasping on to No watch Ben changes anything since it should also have phased through him if it got affected by the CTB. The other Ben’s watches supposedly getting nuked isn’t really counterproof either since we don’t have any proof that their watches are comparable to Ben Prime’s watch or that their watches were even destroyed for that matter.

 

[Greenshifter]

all instances of time travel create a new timeline. This is pretty well established from all the way back in OS. The timeline created by no watch ben's timeline is implied to be the split that would eventually split into every other timeline where ben got the omnitrix. This technically isn't definitively canon to my knowledge, but that's pretty much how I view the events

Actually sorta disagree with this, timelines just branch because if cosmology being that way. Time travel tends to rewrite a timeline, this is obviously weird but big verses like DC and Archie Sonic have this too. Anyways this doesn’t really change anything for the discussion.

 

[Greenshifter]

In the episode “And then there was Ben” Paradox and No watch Ben are able to go back in time to where Ben got the Omnitrix and to make sure he gets the Omnitrix. There’s a problem with this though. It can’t be no watch Ben’s timeline because No watch Ben would have an Omnitrix.

I disagree with the OP this is an issue that’s been bothering me that I want to bring up.

Yeah true, although isn’t this kinda like Zen’o wiping out the future timeline and somehow the present being unaffected despite supposedly nuking the entire thing? Also Paradox saw the nuking of the multiverse coming and the recruitment of the Ben’s from alternate timelines happened after they already fought, implying some sort of time loop which might explain things.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

all instances of time travel create a new timeline. This is pretty well established from all the way back in OS. The timeline created by no watch ben's timeline is implied to be the split that would eventually split into every other timeline where ben got the omnitrix. This technically isn't definitively canon to my knowledge, but that's pretty much how I view the events

This is what I thought too, until I realized it was no watch Ben’s timeline they traveled it. Then they gave past no watch Ben the Omnitrix but somehow the events in his timeline didn’t change.

 

[FRIMI]

But the things that happen due to their time travel line up perfectly with what happens in episode 1 of OS which is why I said that it's heavily implied that they created the timelines where ben gets the omnitrix

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

But the things that happen due to their time travel line up perfectly with what happens in episode 1 of OS which is why I said that it's heavily implied that they created the timelines where ben gets the omnitrix

And how would that be possible with his timeline erased?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Fair, 2-B EE for the CTB kinda got forgotten about so I’m fine with applying it now, Alien X scales above the Chrono Navigator anyways (I don’t even think CTB is mentioned on his page) until we inevitably have to reopen that discussion but that’ll be in a few months.

Actually I’m pretty sure the discussion about him scaling to the Navigator was never properly concluded because....actually I don’t know. I still remember there were a lot of issues with the scaling since I was at the forefront of the Navigator discussion.

But if it’s not to be talked about until a later thread, I guess I can wait to reiterate some stuff when the time is more appropriate.

 

[FRIMI]

And how would that be possible with his timeline erased?

its entirely possible that Paradox intentionally set up the exact conditions to perfectly replicate our Ben's timeline

 

[Greenshifter]

Yeah it’s also weird with Gwen 10 and stuff since she branched before Ben got the Omnitrix. I think that somehow Ben Prime getting the Omnitrix affects the past as well (all past related to Ben and the Omnitrix that is) which explains No watch Ben (basically some sort of timeline swap or whatever, but I don’t think this relates to how time travel usually works) and Gwen 10, but not really how there was even an Omnitrix in the past to start with since no watch Ben’s timeline isn’t supposed to have one at all right?

 

[Greenshifter]

@Kukui Basically we delved into the size of the cosmology in one of our arguments, with said follow-up thread thus getting priority when I remake it, but I still need to make a cosmology blog for that...

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

There was only one timeline left because Vilgax destroyed all of them. That means Paradox and NW Ben could only go to NW Ben’s past. Then they allowed Ben to get the Omnitrix but despite it being NW Ben’s timeline, the history of his timeline didn’t change and he has no Omnitrix.

 

[Greenshifter]

The problem is that NW Ben’s past doesn’t have an Omnitrix according to Paradox, like at all, not even an Argitrix or whatever. Unless somehow Paradox meant that there is an Omnitrix but it didn’t interact with Ben’s life at all... but he literally says “Amazing a universe without an Omnitrix. It boggles the mind.”

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Well if Paradox and NW Ben went to a different timeline then the CTB didn’t destroy all timelines.

 

[Greenshifter]

Well it clearly destroyed Ben Prime’s... I think he only cut down the tree rather than set it on fire, so the past is still accessible and I do think this also applies for 2-B looking at Zen’o.

 

[FRIMI]

well paradox is able to travel to timelines that have been severed from the main time stream as evidenced by him describing the realm he and NW ben were in as "a leaf that has fallen off the tree"

 

[FRIMI]

Yeah it’s also weird with Gwen 10 and stuff since she branched before Ben got the Omnitrix. I think that somehow Ben Prime getting the Omnitrix affects the past as well (all past related to Ben and the Omnitrix that is) which explains No watch Ben (basically some sort of timeline swap or whatever, but I don’t think this relates to how time travel usually works) and Gwen 10, but not really how there was even an Omnitrix in the past to start with since no watch Ben’s timeline isn’t supposed to have one at all right?

well unless I'm forgetting something, there was time travel involved in gwen 10, but there's just no canon explanation for why said time travel occurred. Regardless, somehow Ben time traveled back to just before he got the omnitrix and that caused the timeline to branch into gwen 10's timeline

 

[Greenshifter]

@FRIMI Oh that way? The timeline isn’t supposed to be created by Ben’s time travel tho, the episode Let’s do the time war again doesn’t work if time travel creates new timelines.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

well paradox is able to travel to timelines that have been severed from the main time stream as evidenced by him describing the realm he and NW ben were in as "a leaf that has fallen off the tree"

If it still exists then it wasn’t destroyed.

 

[Greenshifter]

We were talking about a leaf falling of a tree (while a timeline would be a branch), which implies most of the timeline would be destroyed but certain moments such as Ben getting the Omnitrix didn’t. Granted said moment is stated to be the root so it can’t really be a leaf then. Only destroying the present thus makes more sense, also because No watch Ben’s timeline would/could (depending on causality and what not) have been destroyed if Ben Prime’s past were destroyed since they have the same past from a certain point backwards.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

We were talking about a leaf falling of a tree (while a timeline would be a branch), which implies most of the timeline would be destroyed but certain moments such as Ben getting the Omnitrix didn’t. Granted said moment is stated to be the root so it can’t really be a leaf then. Only destroying the present thus makes more sense, also because No watch Ben’s timeline would/could (depending on causality and what not) have been destroyed if Ben Prime’s past were destroyed since they have the same past from a certain point backwards.

Congratulations. All of the highlighted things that you wrote, disproves the CTB being 2-B.

 

[Greenshifter]

The first highlighted thing I don’t think matters for either tiering or the CTB, imagine if it did then someone with a hax ability that removes 1 day of time somewhere during a story suddenly could make a low 2-C feat invalid.

The 2 other things: Then Zen’o gets downgraded too, so we basically need to know if only yeeting the present of all timelines also qualifies for 2-B. Who’s creating the general thread/Q&A me or you?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

The first highlighted thing I don’t think matters for either tiering or the CTB,

Then don’t mention it.

imagine if it did then someone with a hax ability that removes 1 day of time somewhere during a story suddenly could make a low 2-C feat invalid.

False equivalency dude. If you only erase a portion a timeline then that’s not low 2-C.

The 2 other things: Then Zen’o gets downgraded too, so we basically need to know if only yeeting the present of all timelines also qualifies for 2-B. Who’s creating the general thread/Q&A me or you?

What does Zeno have to do with the Chronosapien Time Bomb? If a timeline, that isn’t NW Ben’s timeline, exists then that disproves that all the timelines were erased. It’s plain and simple. I don’t know where you’re getting this headcanon about portions of different timelines being destroyed.

 

[Greenshifter]

The first thing was Frimi’s argument.

Disagree, if the portion is big enough I think it should still be low 2-C, you still destroyed space-time (or heck only the present universe could be big enough)

Future Zen’o destroys all timelines and is 2-C for that yet Goku can still go to the past if I recall correctly.

 

[Firestorm808]

I think you're overcomplicating what's presented in the show.