Re Zero Discussion Thread: Season 3 is Real

[SatellaTheWoE]

Rein
Satella
Volcanica
Reid
Ram
Regulus
Sekhmet
Puck
Typhon
Daphne

"Definitely" might have been too strong of a word considering he would have gotten yet another buff when he turned back to an adult but Daphne and Typhon are supposed to be way stronger than Echidna and Cecilus clearly wasn't way stronger when they were actually fighting.

Hector and Clind might be up there too. They're at least as strong as Cecilus is. Shaula, Ley, and Sirius get crazy hype too.

Vortech...
I wont say much aside from the fact that base Cecilus is faster than Reinhard, is equal to him in skill, has the fiend sword and the dream sword as hax and outranges them both to hell and back
if you want you can revaluate
also Even if you assume Sphidna wasnt at full Echidna strenngth she would still be comparable and got blitzed by a kid cecilus, he also no sold Roswaal casually who is =Echidna
And both are physically superior meaning they would be massively faster than Echidna to begin with
Conclusively it just seems weird for you to propose that Cecilus would be unable to beat people atleast upto Regulus or Ram (The conceptual manipulation he has is probably type 2 btw, we will have an upgrade thread for that soon)

 

[VortechsTG]

I wont say much aside from the fact that base Cecilus is faster than Reinhard

No, and even if he were there are more important things than speed alone.

is equal to him in skill

Definitely ******* not lmaaoooooooooooooo

has the fiend sword and the dream sword as hax

Ok, and? Reid can cut the same things and more.

and outranges them both to hell and back

Jesse, what the **** are you talking about?

if you want you can revaluate
also Even if you assume Sphidna wasnt at full Echidna strenngth she would still be comparable

Based on what?

and got blitzed by a kid cecilus

She literally set up a trap to kill him that was entirely dependent on him killing her to function and she boasted about how he can't truly kill him so she doesn't have to worry about what he does. Throughout the entire rest of the fight she kept up with him.

he also no sold Roswaal casually who is =Echidna

Roswaal is nerfed by a gargantuan amount anyway but what the hell are you talking about?

And both are physically superior meaning they would be massively faster than Echidna to begin with

Again, what the hell are you talking about?

Conclusively it just seems weird for you to propose that Cecilus would be unable to beat people atleast upto Regulus or Ram

(The conceptual manipulation he has is probably type 2 btw, we will have an upgrade thread for that soon)

Ok

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

No, and even if he were there are more important things than speed alone.

sure but it helps a lot when you can blitz your opponents

Definitely ******* not lmaaoooooooooooooo

Simply put, the reason for the collapse of the loot house was that an ordinary, blunt blade had found a wielder who could fulfill its true purpose as a sword, and thus had it been swung.If that was the case, then.If the Sword Saint could achieve that, there was no reason why an equally skilled wielder could not do the same.
Cecilus: [――You did a great job, Al-san.]

Ok, and? Reid can cut the same things and more.

yeah he can cut to the same capacity as the literal sword god

Jesse, what the **** are you talking about?

thousands of kilometers of range?

Based on what?

based on the fact that she did every magic that Echidna had showcased and was specifically stated by Al to be physically superior
She also succesfully inherited Echidnas soul so it would be weird if she also didnt have access to her full set of abilites
She is technically just a better Echidna with better stats and regen

She literally set up a trap to kill him that was entirely dependent on him killing her to function and she boasted about how he can't truly kill him so she doesn't have to worry about what he does.

The trap existing doesn't mean she's gonna let herself get beaten

It's also mentioned that Al speculates Cecilus probably escaped the explosion everytime it went off

Sphidna is not winning against Cecilus

Roswaal is nerfed by a gargantuan amount anyway but what the hell are you talking about?

my bad i thought no sold meant stomp
Anyways there is like numerous ways to get to the conclusion that Roswaal has nothing on Cecilus
For one, Cecilus is Reinhard's counter and could damage him enough that even puck thought he could defeat him. Not only that but he also managed to escape after the battle.
Ceclius can also stomp every divine general combined, in contrast Roswaal had to use petty tricks to beat baleroy alone

Balleroy on a Kid cecilus:

Also the speed gap between them is massive where even a kid Cecilus could dodge Light beams while you can argue MH+ for Roswaal at best

Kid Ceci is also far weaker than adult Ceci (literally compare how they fight Arakiya, one of them says she's a tough opponent and had his hopes up abt reaching the Heavenly Sword and was tagged while the other one is fodderizing her everyday to the point that he literally doesn't think there's anyone in the world on his level)

Again, what the hell are you talking about?

Echidna is physically weak af and both Sphidna and Roswaal have way better physical stats
now obviously speed doesnt have anything to do with overall stats but i imagine being physically superior would make them atleast somewhat faster atleast

 

[VortechsTG]

sure but it helps a lot when you can blitz your opponents

Except the upper ranks can deal with being blitzed pretty easily. Reinhard and Reid certainly at least have a large enough skill gap that even if he were faster they would murk him. Sphinx proves she can deal with it with the proper magic technique.

And if you're talking about a perception blitz that's not happening. Sphinx was able to keep up with him just fine.

The only way this could possibly make sense is if it's meant to mean he's equally skilled as Reinhard was when he destroyed the loot house. For starters, why would Reinhard casually be able to dodge the rain just to deliver a letter yet Cecilus can barely do the equivalent and still sustain injuries while in peak condition?

If Cecilus were actually faster and just as skilled as Reinhard at this point the implications would be absurd. That would mean a supressed Muspel can kill Reinhard if he doesn't draw the dragon sword. Ofc he would just resurrect but he would be killed. It would also imply that anyone like Echidna and Roswaal have ftl reaction and combat speed with their magic. In turn that would also mean Marcos is ftl and is significantly stronger than Reinhard without the dragon sword since he's equal to Roswaal who is stronger than Muspel and a supressed Muspel would have killed Cecilus without the dream sword. It would mean that Daphne and Typhon are way stronger than Reinhard is without the dragon sword too.

yeah he can cut to the same capacity as the literal sword god

Yeah, and he still can't beat Reinhard. He can't beat Ram without significant difficulty. Cecilus’ swords of power are not by any means a truly top tier power. Tyhon's authority is better than both of them combined. And by all means I would argue that Cecilus' skill is as well. The swords are not going to help him against Reinhard or Ram or Sekhmet or anyone else like that. They would just parry them away.

thousands of kilometers of range?

He simply doesn't have that.

based on the fact that she did every magic that Echidna had showcased and was specifically stated by Al to be physically superior

We literally never saw Echidna fight a single time and her physical abilities are nearly irrelevant to her power at that level. Even if she could use all of the same spells, which is a completely baseless claim, it wouldn't inherently mean she is as powerful.

She also succesfully inherited Echidnas soul so it would be weird if she also didnt have access to her full set of abilites

This is false. Only a portion of Echidna's soul was placed into Sphinx. Sphinx merely changed her physical form to match that portion, thus completing hher. She is a complete copy of the  portion of Echidna placed within her. She even acts completely differently.

She is technically just a better Echidna with better stats and regen

You're begging the claim.

The trap existing doesn't mean she's gonna let herself get beaten

She literally HAS to for it to work and there is zero downside to her being killing. It is 100% pros 0% cons.

It's also mentioned that Al speculates Cecilus probably escaped the explosion everytime it went off

Even if that were definitive why would she not try? She keeps up with him the entire rest of the fight. She clearly isn't actually getting blitzed here.

fifty-three trials and errors

You're just proving my point

my bad i thought no sold meant stomp
Anyways there is like numerous ways to get to the conclusion that Roswaal has nothing on Cecilus

No, you SAID it already happened, not that it's something you think would happen. You'd be wrong anyway since the only points of comparison we have for Roswaal and Cecilus are a weaker version of Muspel nearly beating him and a potentially weaker version of Echidna putting up a decent fight. Both of which are supposedly weaker than Roswaal.

For one, Cecilus is Reinhard's counter and could damage him enough that even puck thought he could defeat him. Not only that but he also managed to escape after the battle.

That is in wrath if where he is waaaaaaaaaay stronger than he is now.

Ceclius can also stomp every divine general combined, in contrast Roswaal had to use petty tricks to beat baleroy alone

While vastly weakened to the point he literally couldn't replicate a technique Julius literally learnt from him.

Also the speed gap between them is massive where even a kid Cecilus could dodge Light beams while you can argue MH+ for Roswaal at best

A kid Cecilus who was barely weaker than his adult self and then grew enough to break two or three of his limits dodged glowing crystals that were described as being like light because that's how they appear. They neither are light or are as fast as light. Muspel is an earth spirit. Quit using this stupid argument. I know you're better than this.

Kid Ceci is also far weaker than adult Ceci (literally compare how they fight Arakiya, one of them says she's a tough opponent and had his hopes up abt reaching the Heavenly Sword and was tagged while the other one is fodderizing her everyday to the point that he literally doesn't think there's anyone in the world on his level)

Comparing how they fight proves kid Cecilus is barely weaker. Arakiya was able to hit adult Cecilus every now and then and when he tried to grab her he lost the use of his arms for a significant period of time. It's the same exact difference between Wilhelm with and without the power of love.

Echidna is physically weak af and both Sphidna and Roswaal have way better physical stats
now obviously speed doesnt have anything to do with overall stats but i imagine being physically superior would make them atleast somewhat faster atleast

No. Their physical stats have nothing to do with their reaction speeds or the combat speed of their magic. There is absolutely zero connection there. You might as well be arguing that Todd has a chance at beating Echidna because he is way physically stronger and faster than her. Being physically stronger and faster says absolutely nothing.

Mind you, Puck could absolutely shrug off an attack like Al Shario. Melekuara is more or less as strong as Echidna and he called him pathetic. He literally crushed him just by swatting him with his paw. Yet here Cecilus is needing to turn himself back into an adult and then use the dream sword juiced up to an absurd level he has never used it at before. Unless you mean to suggest that Puck would crush Reinhard the same way if he can't draw the dragon sword it makes no sense for Cecilus to be anywhere close to him.

 

[Zabazab]

2018: "Cecilus is Reinhard-level" vs "No the **** he is not."

2024: "Cecilus is Reinhard-level" vs "No the **** he is not."

I pray this never changes Ceci being way weaker supports my agenda

A kid Cecilus who was barely weaker than his adult self and then grew enough to break two or three of his limits dodged glowing crystals that were described as being like light because that's how they appear. They neither are light or are as fast as light. Muspel is an earth spirit. Quit using this stupid argument. I know you're better than this.

To be fair he was weaving through Sphidna's Jiwald+Mirror Spam and even bounced a ray back with Masayume.

 

[VortechsTG]

To be fair he was weaving through Sphidna's Jiwald+Mirror Spam and even bounced a ray back with Masayume.

True, but that doesn't mean he ever directly dodged them like he did Muspel's bands.

 

[Zabazab]

Relativistic (consistent with Ex2) tbh......

 

[VortechsTG]

Relativistic (consistent with Ex2) tbh......

I agree tbh. I mean, just based on how much faster he's become and the fact that even Libre, Grimm, Carol, Olbart, Balleroy, etc should all be lightning speed he should probably be at least sub-relativistic.

 

[Davidzka]

finally the QNA will be released soon

 

[Zabazab]

Tappei he's already dead you don't have to KEEP ******** on even evolved Rowan

The corpses whose souls were set ablaze by the flashing light of the "Yang Sword" were all skilled, and Tanza didn't think there was a big difference in their abilities from that corpse named Rowan.

However, the raging crimson sword-storm keeps them at bay, and they are overwhelmed by Vincent's and Eugard's cooperation without exchanging words or glances.

 

[Zabazab]

The Dream Sword Masayume's ability, properly translated (plus another mention of Fiend Sword Murasame's Concept Hax, as a treat)

That brandish, honed to a razor’s edge, was pregnant with an aura of swordsmanship that caused even Cecilus to envision death. ――That nightmarish ending, born out of a single-minded concentration, was something that the Dream Sword Masayume would not allow.

The Fiend Sword Murasame was an Enchanted Sword that could sever the concept of anything’s “Point”.

In contrast, using dreams as its scabbard, the true value of the Dream Sword Masayume was――,

Cecilus: [――Dreams are devoured, and dreams are granted.]

In exchange for the motivation one possessed for a wish they desired to be granted, the Enchanted Sword would harbor the power to grant that wish.

Hence, the Dream Sword had been granted the name of “A Dream Come True” which made dreams become reality; even if it might have become a useless, dull blade depending on the wielder, it had continued to be extolled as an Enchanted Sword capable of severing the very world in twain. [1]

The blade spent many months and years being transferred from person to person, since as compensation for their wish being fulfilled, they would forget even the reason why they had yearned for it in the first place; as its owner had changed many times, now, the Dream Sword had settled into Cecilus’s hand.

For both Cecilus and the Dream Sword, this was a miraculous happenstance.

That was because――,

Cecilus: [There’s no way that my dreams and motivation are ever going to run out!]

That was the reason why Cecilus Segmunt was the master of the Dream Sword.

An extraordinary yearning towards the dreams one harbored would allow the potential of the Dream Sword Masayume to be displayed to the maximum degree.

――That instant, the unleashed brandish blurred the boundary between dream and reality as it sliced.

 

[VortechsTG]

The trap existing doesn't mean she's gonna let herself get beaten

The ``witch'' did not move an inch until her forehead was split open by flying debris, a kunai was thrust into her neck and thigh, and the center of her chest was pierced by Orwald's sword.

It couldn't react to Orbalt's movements. --No, the ``witch'''s gaze was following his movements. Orbalt concludes that she is not as dull as she looks.

In other words, the ``witch'' could have done something, but was devoured without doing anything. --No, I'll do it now.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I am sorry zab i am doing this one

"——It's important to eliminate such obstacles."

In an instant, a white light was emitted from the fingers of the woman who tilted her head, Spinx, and Emilia deflected it diagonally with a mirror of ice created by her spinal reflexes.

If Emilia was good at earth attributes instead of fire attributes, Sphinx might have been able to pierce through earth or stone walls in one shot and deliver a fatal injury.

It was an attack full of murderous intent, that's the feeling Emilia had.

explicitly written that she deflected Jiwald on reflex, no Anal precog...
Relvasitic Emilia is real now!!!

 

[Huesito88]

I am sorry zab i am doing this one




explicitly written that she deflected Jiwald on reflex, no Anal precog...
Relvasitic Emilia is real now!!!

Always has been

 

[VortechsTG]

explicitly written that she deflected Jiwald on reflex, no Anal precog...
Relvasitic Emilia is real now!!

If she's gonna be going up against Sphinx she's gonna have to be... she has been popping off in arc 8 so hard, man.

Her "reflex" is very clearly referring to instinctive action though.

 

[Zabazab]

Yeah it's a spinal reflex, using the PNS.

There's also feats like Yorna blocking Arakiya's light (well, it pierced her guard but she tried), and of course the Ex2 feats.

Supersonic with Relativistic reactions would be quite a rating funny honestly.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Ex Novel 2 feats are legit, but only scales to reaction speed

Could see this working.

 

[VortechsTG]

Yeah it's a spinal reflex, using the PNS.

There's also feats like Yorna blocking Arakiya's light (well, it pierced her guard but she tried), and of course the Ex2 feats.

Supersonic with Relativistic reactions would be quite a rating funny honestly.

Tbf I don't think there are any supersonic characters who this applies to. Emilia would have been supersonic in terms of her melee combat speed at some point but her magic has always been faster and she seems to have grown exponentially stronger since she fought Volcanica.

Ex Novel 2 feats are legit, but only scales to reaction speed

Could see this working.

Considering Cecilus wasn't much stronger than Wilhelm when he saw himself and Arakiya as if they were frozen... yeah they do have really high reaction speeds. Not to mention their instincts quickening that even more.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Genuine question cause I dont follow y'all that often, but why does Reinhard have High 6-A durability when the justification for it is being able to fight Satella, a 5-C, in an endless battle? It's been like that for a while.

 

[Zabazab]

Genuine question cause I dont follow y'all that often, but why does Reinhard have High 6-A durability when the justification for it is being able to fight Satella, a 5-C, in an endless battle? It's been like that for a while.

Sheer sillyness.

It'll be changed to just "comparable to his AP", Satella's a bad justification because of his Blessings of First & Second Sight, & the Phoenix.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Sheer sillyness.

It'll be changed to just "comparable to his AP", Satella's a bad justification because of his Blessings of First & Second Sight, & the Phoenix.

So in your view, he shouldn't have moon level durability and the whole Satella stuff is him surviving due to blessings?

 

[Zabazab]

So in your view, he shouldn't have moon level durability and the whole Satella stuff is him surviving due to blessings?

Basically yeah, there's currently no reason to think he can tank his own sword-swing with Reid, but he is able to beat Volcanica (1/10th of its prime) and even behead it bare-handed.

Although I think even without any Blessings, he'd last quite a while against Satella, maybe even a whole week before exhaustion hits him.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Side Story CRT that's been sitting in my sandbox for almost a year.

Most of the stuff that was there, was already added, so I posted what's left.

Oh also I can finally turn my attention to Re:Zero now, got all I wanted to do for the other verse done.

 

[VortechsTG]

https://vxtwitter.com/ShadowKoto/status/1788953644248809905

Bringing this up here cause it's about us but would it be possible to get this changed? I didn't even think about it until Shadow brought it up to me but we should 100% be using the terms divine protections instead of blessings. From my understanding wct and the wiki have been trying to make sure it's translated as divine protections as consistently as possible.

 

[Zabazab]

Bringing this up here cause it's about us but would it be possible to get this changed? I didn't even think about it until Shadow brought it up to me but we should 100% be using the terms divine protections instead of blessings. From my understanding wct and the wiki have been trying to make sure it's translated as divine protections as consistently as possible.

Personally I really dislike "Divine Protection" because it sounds clunky, but I'm not gonna argue with translators.

I can edit it all to say DP soon. It's a cosmetic change so a CRT won't be needed.

 

[Zabazab]

Doing this, still as a kid, and while carrying another person.... Cecilus what the hell

Yielded in the air as if to surround the range of Cecilus’s sprint, were many beautiful mirrors fabricated with water―― the surfaces of those mirrors reflected the white rays of heat fired by the Witch, and a boisterous dance of light commenced.

From all directions, lethal luminescence was chaotically fired, targeting Cecilus.

Cecilus: [I-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-ten!]

Amidst the berserk tempest of light, Cecilus ran through it as if he were dancing. He inclined his body, leaned forward, stretched out his legs, lowered his posture, and occasionally stepped over the light with long strides.

And for the angles he could not evade, he would utilize the blade of the Dream Sword, and would cleave the water mirrors reflecting the light in twain. With the splashing sound of a flat stone skipping across the surface of water, he basked in the scattered droplets of the broken water mirrors, and cut his way through the storm―― —Arc 8, Chapter 65, "Starfall Upon the Imperial Capital"

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Yea, Ceci seems blatantly FTL at this point.

Probably a lowball too, would be better with visuals.

 

[Davidzka]

Subaru wholeheartedly agrees with Beatrice's murmurings after witnessing the same thing.

　As far as information was concerned, the strongest co-star on earth was Subaru's sense of invincibility that exceeded his simple imagination. In fact, I don't feel like losing because I have Reinhardt on my side.

　Now that Cecils has grown up, along with Halibel, that feeling is even more intense...



“-Not yet, brother!!”

Subaru really has a good relationship with the three strongest individuals. The rest is Mad Prince, However, it seems that Mad Prince will immediately become Subaru's enemy because he himself hates Spirits

 

[VortechsTG]

If Cecilus is really ftl that would mean that Marcos is too at this point and that Echidna, Roswaal, etc have ftl reactions. That's possible, but I think it’s more likely that Cecilus was just aimdodging and blocking with his intuition and ability to read the situation and his opponent. The unfortunate problem with characters being so skilled they can deal with barrages of attacks faster than them like this is that we don't know when they are actually dodging something with speed alone.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Hard to argue aim dodging when he was surrounded in all directions.

I have no stake in this argument yet, since I am not caught up though, so can ignore whatever I say.

 

[VortechsTG]

Hard to argue aim dodging when he was surrounded in all directions.

I have no stake in this argument yet, since I am not caught up though, so can ignore whatever I say.

It's really not when he percieves and processes everything as fast as he does and can accurately tell where they are just by guessing, or reading the opponent.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

How is it years later Cecilius still continues to be controversial

 

[Zabazab]

If Cecilus is really ftl that would mean that Marcos is too at this point and that Echidna, Roswaal, etc have ftl reactions.

Wuh-oh....

Q: Considering the jump from the moon to the earth, wouldn’t Reinhard’s speed be several thousand times the speed of sound, allowing him to orbit around the Re:ZERO world in a few seconds? Who is the character closest in speed to Reinhard? How much of a difference in speed is there between Reinhard and the character closest to his speed?

A: That’s a smart question. However, since the Re:ZERO world is not Earth, we don’t know if the distance to the moon is the same as it is to Earth. It might be super close! (laughs) I did that scene with Reinhard kicking the moon back because I thought it would be fun, so I didn’t think too much about the specifics… But purely speaking of “who is the character closest in speed to Reinhard?” Cecilus would be faster than Reinhard. While he’s fast, Reinhard would probably be stronger if they fought. Speed and strength have different correlations.

 

[SeijiSetto]

Wuh-oh....

is this The Statement In Question Finally Translated Properly or is this him doubling down after saying it earlier

 

[Zabazab]

is this The Statement In Question Finally Translated Properly or is this him doubling down after saying it earlier

Former

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Wuh-oh....

I like how he does not elaborate on the speed of sound statement

How is it years later Cecilius still continues to be controversial

He is by far the most controversial character in the RZ powerscaling community...

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Evil....

Minor retcon, Subaru doesnt have any range issues anymore as long as he isnt knocked out

Why is he so cute...

 

[Davidzka]

Wuh-oh....

noo tappei, in your opinion, if Cecilus is compared with Reid, who is the fastest?, even though in fact Reid's first achievement is still just a story, so just answer according to your opinion.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Cool Q&A, ngl.

I actually surprised that most of the things i want to know are answered. Except the modern-day Japan occupations for the characters.

Because I want to know for the Emilia Camp, not the Anastacia Camp. But hearing that Julius would be actor is funny.

 

[VortechsTG]

Wuh-oh....

Is this supposed to disprove them scaling to his speed? Cause i doesn't at all.