- 10,357
- 3,866
.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
is heaven considered a universe in dragon ball?
- Thread starter Robo432343
- Start date
-
- Tags
- dragon ball
- 15,413
- 11,312
No, I don't think we considered Heaven a universe. Currently the characters are scaling to 3 universes for destruction of the Macrocosm but I don't think Heaven is one of those universes, at least from what I checked. Could be wrong though, I don't follow the dragon ball cosmology stuff like that.
- 10,357
- 3,866
- Thread starter
- #4
People are telling me Goku scales to 9 universes, not 3..
- 10,584
- 5,319
Heaven is said to be as big as the universe, although i don't know if it is the Universe, but there is several evidence that it is the size of a.
Last edited:
- 10,584
- 5,319
Yes, in Dragon Ball's cosmology there are three Universal-sized spacetimes, and Goku and Jiren are superior to some gods, and in the other Universe there are several other afterlife kingdoms
So you are destroying 9 Universes that are separated by spacetime.
- 4,338
- 2,322
If you look at what a universe looks like, you can see that Heaven is a really huge planet within a Universe, which is 40% universe and 60% Other World:
- 4,827
- 4,487
Yup, Heaven is of the size of an universe, however, Goku and co doesn´t scales to 3 universes, but to 3 universal-sized space-times
Basically: Heaven doesn´t have its own space-time, so it can´t be used to upgrade the amount of universes that the characters scales
- 10,357
- 3,866
- Thread starter
- #9
are you sure heaven is the size of a universe? like bro..
- 4,827
- 4,487
Image doesn´t worksare you sure heaven is the size of a universe? like bro..
- 10,357
- 3,866
- Thread starter
- #11
it works trust me bro
- 10,357
- 3,866
- Thread starter
- #12
here
it does not look like its universe sized
- 4,827
- 4,487
here
it does not look like its universe sized
We currently accept the Heaven as an universe
- 10,357
- 3,866
- Thread starter
- #14
it says "its a smaller planet than i imagined" like wtf
- 10,357
- 3,866
- Thread starter
- #15
- 4,827
- 4,487
Tbh this wouldn´t necessary desqualify it as universe-sized
There is also other arguments for it be universe-sized, but i will not start talk about them due to personal issues
- 10,357
- 3,866
- Thread starter
- #18
like bro heaven is so small it cannot be seen from the bottom of the after life
- 10,357
- 3,866
- Thread starter
- #21
ok lets talk more about it
Everyone knows the famous scan:
that states heaven is as wide as the universe thus making it equal to the mortal universe in dragon ball.
I do not have the official translation so correct me if im wrong but I believe this is a mistranslation
The reason is because the word used could of likely been "sekai" which also means world
Meaning heaven could potentially just be equal to the Earth in size.
There is more proof because one:
Daio kaio planet is visible in heaven.
How is this relevant to heaven though? Because the daio kaio planet is stated to be a small planet:
and as seen here ^ the mansion is even visible on the daio kaio planet which shows how small it is. How would such a small planet be visible in heaven when its supposed to be the size of the universe?
Planes can also travel to heaven
That would mean that planes would have to be traveling trillions of times the speed of light.
such as the one below traveling to daio kaio's planet as well
as seen here a small planet is visible above the surface of heaven(which looks very much like a planets surface)
Heaven can't also be seen from the bottom of the afterlife
which doesn't make sense at all, if heaven was truly universal sized it would make up 25% of the DB macrocosm.
Here's why.
The living world is stated to be HALF of the DB macrocosm
and outer space is stated to be HALF of the living world, meaning its 25% of the DB macrocosm. The DB macrocosm is 4x greater in size than the mortal universe.
which is equal the observable universe.
If heaven was truly equal to that in size than why does it not take up 25% of the macrocosm? Why is a small planet visible above it as well by statements and visually?
and lastly
The afterlife is divine into three areas. Hell, King Enma realm and the Kaio Realm. Heaven belongs to the Kaio Realm meaning the Kaio Realm as a whole>>Heaven which again contradicts Heaven being universal sized as that would make Heaven 25% of the DB macrocosm. The After life>>Kaio Realm>>heaven.
1. Daio Kaio planet is small planet is visible above Heaven visually and by statement
Daio kaio planet is likely just 100x bigger than king kai's planet since king kai's planet used to be 100x greater in size
2. Heaven being universal in size makes no sense as its a mere speck inside the DB macrocosm while the mortal universe and the demon realm on the other hand both each make up 25% of the DB macrocosm and together make up half of it.
3. Heaven is stated to be a part of the Kaio Realm which one of the 3 areas of the after life which contradicts heaven being 25% of the DB macrocosm.
I think Heaven is not universal sized and its likely a mistranslation unless someone can give me the actual translation of the guide. Heaven is only stated to be the size of the universe in the scan and in an anime filler scene.
- 119
- 110
as such it is not a translation error and there are no fillers for the cosmologies we use now.ok lets talk more about it
Everyone knows the famous scan:
that states heaven is as wide as the universe thus making it equal to the mortal universe in dragon ball.
I do not have the official translation so correct me if im wrong but I believe this is a mistranslation
The reason is because the word used could of likely been "sekai" which also means world
Meaning heaven could potentially just be equal to the Earth in size.
There is more proof because one:
Daio kaio planet is visible in heaven.
How is this relevant to heaven though? Because the daio kaio planet is stated to be a small planet:
and as seen here ^ the mansion is even visible on the daio kaio planet which shows how small it is. How would such a small planet be visible in heaven when its supposed to be the size of the universe?
Planes can also travel to heaven
That would mean that planes would have to be traveling trillions of times the speed of light.
such as the one below traveling to daio kaio's planet as well
as seen here a small planet is visible above the surface of heaven(which looks very much like a planets surface)
Heaven can't also be seen from the bottom of the afterlife
which doesn't make sense at all, if heaven was truly universal sized it would make up 25% of the DB macrocosm.
Here's why.
The living world is stated to be HALF of the DB macrocosm
and outer space is stated to be HALF of the living world, meaning its 25% of the DB macrocosm. The DB macrocosm is 4x greater in size than the mortal universe.
which is equal the observable universe.
If heaven was truly equal to that in size than why does it not take up 25% of the macrocosm? Why is a small planet visible above it as well by statements and visually?
and lastly
The afterlife is divine into three areas. Hell, King Enma realm and the Kaio Realm. Heaven belongs to the Kaio Realm meaning the Kaio Realm as a whole>>Heaven which again contradicts Heaven being universal sized as that would make Heaven 25% of the DB macrocosm. The After life>>Kaio Realm>>heaven.
1. Daio Kaio planet is small planet is visible above Heaven visually and by statement
Daio kaio planet is likely just 100x bigger than king kai's planet since king kai's planet used to be 100x greater in size
2. Heaven being universal in size makes no sense as its a mere speck inside the DB macrocosm while the mortal universe and the demon realm on the other hand both each make up 25% of the DB macrocosm and together make up half of it.
3. Heaven is stated to be a part of the Kaio Realm which one of the 3 areas of the after life which contradicts heaven being 25% of the DB macrocosm.
I think Heaven is not universal sized and its likely a mistranslation unless someone can give me the actual translation of the guide. Heaven is only stated to be the size of the universe in the scan and in an anime filler scene.
In addition, we did not use the visual representation of the macrocosm to scale the sizes, since it was discarded because the drawings were not to scale.
GarrixianXD
University Enthusiast
Any/AllVS Battles
Joke Battles
Administrator
Content Moderator
Translation Helper
- 3,605
- 8,621
Why the **** is this even a debate lmao
- 1,112
- 2,623
Dragon Ball universal space time number downgrade
so, this thread was made and put the number of universal space times as 6 for the macrocosm of dragon ball, some problems tho: tl;dr: none of the realms suggested in the thread have any proof of being big enough to be low 2-C even tho they are space times, so we should downgrade...
Heaven is universe-sized, but that’s different from being directly called a universe. Though a space-time must be universe-sized to be Low 2-C rather than remain an untiered 4-D construct, being universe-sized doesn’t make something an isolated continuum unless it’s said be a universe in its own right, which we recognize as indicating a separate space-time by default.
Regardless, as discussed in the thread linked above, Heaven is directly disqualified from being Low 2-C as it seems to be isolated from the other dimensions by a cloud barrier, which is a hard disqualifier for something being a space-time continuum. Separate universes must be isolated by a higher-dimensional barrier, or one that explicitly restricts movement on a 3-Dimensional level.
No offense to you specifically, but I’m surprised to see this old argument still being used. It’s right below “the macrocosm is 4 galaxies large at best” and “the shockwaves from Goku and Beerus got stronger on their own” in the hall of fame of comicvine-grade debunks against Dragon Ball.
Goku had already seen Heaven and called it huge, after which King Kai pointed out they were arriving at the Grand Kaio’s world, which Goku had called a small planet as it was the actual “small planet” Goku was referencing here.
Then again…
like bro heaven is so small it cannot be seen from the bottom of the after life
It seems you’re copy-pasting debunks directly from comicvine, so you likely know the problems at hand already.
dragon ball "heaven" is possibly not universal size. - Gen. Discussion - Comic Vine
Everyone knows the famous scan:that states heaven is as wide as the universe thus making it equal to the mortal universe in dragon ball.I do not havecomicvine.gamespot.com
- 10,357
- 3,866
- Thread starter
- #27
thank youDragon Ball universal space time number downgrade
so, this thread was made and put the number of universal space times as 6 for the macrocosm of dragon ball, some problems tho: tl;dr: none of the realms suggested in the thread have any proof of being big enough to be low 2-C even tho they are space times, so we should downgrade...vsbattles.com
Heaven is universe-sized, but that’s different from being directly called a universe. Though a space-time must be universe-sized to be Low 2-C rather than remain an untiered 4-D construct, being universe-sized doesn’t make something an isolated continuum unless it’s said be a universe in its own right, which we recognize as indicating a separate space-time by default.
Regardless, as discussed in the thread linked above, Heaven is directly disqualified from being Low 2-C as it seems to be isolated from the other dimensions by a cloud barrier, which is a hard disqualifier for something being a space-time continuum. Separate universes must be isolated by a higher-dimensional barrier, or one that explicitly restricts movement on a 3-Dimensional level.
No offense to you specifically, but I’m surprised to see this old argument still being used. It’s right below “the macrocosm is 4 galaxies large at best” and “the shockwaves from Goku and Beerus got stronger on their own” in the hall of fame of comicvine-grade debunks against Dragon Ball.
Goku had already seen Heaven and called it huge, after which King Kai pointed out they were arriving at the Grand Kaio’s world, which Goku had called a small planet as it was the actual “small planet” Goku was referencing here.
Then again…
It seems you’re copy-pasting debunks directly from comicvine, so you likely know the problems at hand already.
- 4,827
- 4,487
Dragon Ball universal space time number downgrade
so, this thread was made and put the number of universal space times as 6 for the macrocosm of dragon ball, some problems tho: tl;dr: none of the realms suggested in the thread have any proof of being big enough to be low 2-C even tho they are space times, so we should downgrade...
Heaven is universe-sized, but that’s different from being directly called a universe. Though a space-time must be universe-sized to be Low 2-C rather than remain an untiered 4-D construct, being universe-sized doesn’t make something an isolated continuum unless it’s said be a universe in its own right, which we recognize as indicating a separate space-time by default.
Regardless, as discussed in the thread linked above, Heaven is directly disqualified from being Low 2-C as it seems to be isolated from the other dimensions by a cloud barrier, which is a hard disqualifier for something being a space-time continuum. Separate universes must be isolated by a higher-dimensional barrier, or one that explicitly restricts movement on a 3-Dimensional level.
No offense to you specifically, but I’m surprised to see this old argument still being used. It’s right below “the macrocosm is 4 galaxies large at best” and “the shockwaves from Goku and Beerus got stronger on their own” in the hall of fame of comicvine-grade debunks against Dragon Ball.
Goku had already seen Heaven and called it huge, after which King Kai pointed out they were arriving at the Grand Kaio’s world, which Goku had called a small planet as it was the actual “small planet” Goku was referencing here.
Then again…
It seems you’re copy-pasting debunks directly from comicvine, so you likely know the problems at hand already.
- 10,584
- 5,319
- 9,898
- 10,679
You got censored miss normie.
GarrixianXD
University Enthusiast
Any/AllVS Battles
Joke Battles
Administrator
Content Moderator
Translation Helper
- 3,605
- 8,621
- 9,898
- 10,679
- 10,357
- 3,866
- Thread starter
- #33
This isn’t discordia..heh
- 9,898
- 10,679
Shush.
- 10,357
- 3,866
- Thread starter
- #35
- 10,199
- 3,511
they scale to 6 universal space times via scaling to GoD who can destroy 2 macrocosms with 3 universal space times in each
