Kenganverse vs Bakiverse: The Emperor vs The Master

BakiHanma18 · Mar 20, 2020

Adam Dudley vs Goki Shibukawa

Speed equalized

Location: Maximum Tournament Arena

Rules: everything allowed except for the use of weapons

In-Character

Bracket here (note: keys of characters are subject to change)

Combatants have 1 day to heal any wounds sustained in the match

Winner will be declared after 12 hours if only 1 fighter has 0 votes

Round 1 was here

BakiHanma18 · Mar 20, 2020

Some things to remember before this gets called an outright Aiki 7-C stomp, some things to remember: the AP gap is pretty massive, so Shibukawa's Sixth Sense would probably put him in a more cautious light, as well as the threat of someone like Adam who not only have a massive AP advantage, but can also throw punches from insane angles. Things like Shibukawa's Headbutt and Stomp won't fly, Finger-Grab would be ill-advised, and Aiki... is what it is. On Adam's side, High-Stick Shot, if it successfully lands, will oneshot Shibukawa.

Amlad22 · Mar 20, 2020

I mean I love Adam's character but his attack style will be no different than any of the other straight forward brutes who have faced Shibukawa and been punished. Shibukawa's sixth sense didn't go off for Doppo who is likely stronger than Adam along with being wayyyyyyyyyyy more skilled. So Aiki should make this, sadly, a stomp.

BakiHanma18 · Mar 20, 2020

Amlad22 said:
I mean I love Adam's character but his attack style will be no different than any of the other straight forward brutes who have faced Shibukawa and been punished. Shibukawa's sixth sense didn't go off for Doppo who is likely stronger than Adam along with being wayyyyyyyyyyy more skilled. So Aiki should make this, sadly, a stomp.

To clarify, Adam is ~0.15 tons iirc, so considerably strong. In Dorian v Adam, skill and hypnosis were the only reason Adam didn't oneshot

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3891423

Amlad22 · Mar 20, 2020

Not really. Even in that thread I clarified that the power gap is minimal at best. Doppo is leagues stronger than Dorian too which is why Doppo is likely above Adam. Even in Doppo's AP he has the likely higher rating.

Even if Adam was stronger than Doppo, it won't change what happens. He rushes in, throws a powerful punch, gets Aiki to the face, doesn't understand what happened, repeat. Adam is way too straight forward in his style and that's literally everything that Aiki counters. Even Oliva couldn't break Aiki with brute force. This is in all honestly a very big stomp.

BakiHanma18 · Mar 20, 2020

I wanted to intervene as little as possible in this regard, but I suppose in order to even the playing field, I'll restrict Aiki. That way, it's more of a "skill vs strength" kinda battle

Amlad22 · Mar 20, 2020

Then I'm not sure if Shibukawa has a valid win condition. Yeah he has pressure points but as we've seen with Kyogei in the recent chapters, Shibukawa going for a throat pressure point just pissed the Ōzeki off. Adam might be able to tank all the pressure points and regular judo throws until he can land a punch. I feel bad saying it but it's either a stomp for Shibukawa via Aiki or stomp for Adam via being a tank.

BakiHanma18 · Mar 20, 2020

Amlad22 said:
Then I'm not sure if Shibukawa has a valid win condition. Yeah he has pressure points but as we've seen with Kyogei in the recent chapters, Shibukawa going for a throat pressure point just pissed the Ōzeki off. Adam might be able to tank all the pressure points and regular judo throws until he can land a punch. I feel bad saying it but it's either a stomp for Shibukawa via Aiki or stomp for Adam via being a tank.

Now that I'd disagree with. While Aiki is off the table, Shibukawa can still use normal Jiu Jitsu. For 1, Shibukawa 100% outclasses Adam in Jiu Jitsu, and Adam's stand up game has already been defeated by a Jiu Jitsu user. Also remember that Kyogei was strong enough to break Aiki with strength, nothing other than Aiki+another style is gunna harm Kyogei, whereas the gap between Adam and Goki, while large, isn't nearly that large. Jiu Jitsu counters Adam's stand-up, Adam's specialty in ground game still works, but it's his full power jab and decent Jiu Jitsu vs Shibukawa level Jiu Jitsu, and pressure points should work. They worked on Doppo and Jack, so he should be okay

Amlad22 · Mar 20, 2020

Adam did get brought down by jiu jitsu but then proceeded to throw a punch despite being mounted that would have KO'd Cosmo if it landed. And Cosmo is just as skilled in jiu jitsu as Shibukawa would be if not more skilled. So it counters, but Adam's trunk muscles mean it's not gonna be the end of the match for him.

I will say Kyogei did have some skill since he is using sumo so not all strength but obviously Kyogei is a beast and is above Adam.

Either way Adam is at a level where without Aiki Shibukawa can't bring him down. Shibukawa used Aiki heavily against Doppo and Jack and wouldn't have beaten Doppo without it. To say that something worked on Doppo and Jack when it did either zero damage or minor damage isn't something I agree with. Jack literally was unharmed by every non Aiki attack used on him. Shibukawa didn't even attempt pressure points likely bc he knew it would do nothing.

BakiHanma18 · Mar 20, 2020

Right, that's what I meant by his full power jabs. It's his okay-ish Jiu Jitsu and full power jabs even while mounted vs Shibukawa's Jiu Jitsu mastery (roughly Cosmo level) and pressure points

True, and Kyogei's agility is the only reason he even had the opportunity to overpower and sumo Aiki as well

Doppo was paralyzed just by Shibukawa stepping on his foot, using a pressure point in his foot. Jack literally would have drown to death in the beginning of the match just because Shibukawa spit in his face, rupturing his tear sac. The only reason Jack is still around is because Shibukawa strike him in the chin with Aiki and stopped it (somehow)

https://youtu.be/wQEE24dD6-M

https://youtu.be/cqf43L-1kps

Amlad22 · Mar 20, 2020

Two things for Doppo and Jack.

The pressure point he used on Doppo did not do any damage. It paralyzed him. I'm not gonna say pressure points won't do anything, I'm saying they won't end the fight just like against Doppo. It worked, but he never did any real damage with pressure points.

And against Jack he needed water to set up the pressure point. Honestly in my own head canon Jack would have overpowered it anyway cause Hanma power but that's just me.

I just can't imagine Shibukawa stopping Adam's jabs without Aiki

Shibukawa should just keep Aiki and let it be a stomp. I don't see the point in restricting the Baki characters unnecessarily. Just like in any tournament there is bound to be stomps. Based on the bracket I can already see that Shibukawa will not have an easy time past this round anyway even with Aiki lol

BakiHanma18 · Mar 20, 2020

True, true. On the one hand, I was also thinking about how there are stomps in every tournament, and that's just kinda how that goes, but on the other hand, I was sad that Adam wouldn't get a fair shake. I'm just going to switch it back and move on. (Also, my thoughts exactly about next round. My first thought was "Well... this is familiar...")

BakiHanma18 · Mar 20, 2020

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/4152997

Kenganverse vs Bakiverse: The Emperor vs The Master

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